Lightning Strike and surge

[John]

Hi Everyone.
We had lightning hit across the street from us and my PC got zapped along
with other items in the house. Yes, I had two surge suppressors to no avail.
My home built PC is running a Intel D915GEV MB with four WD 250GB hard
drives and a PCI-E ATI All In Wonder video card.
The PCI-E slot got zapped and everything else is working. So, I'm running
the onboard graphics for now.
However, the computer is now starting "VERY SLOW" but all devices seem to
work.
Any ideas???
Please Help..
Zapped in Nebraska

 

[John Doe]

My home built PC is running a Intel D915GEV MB with four WD 250GB
hard drives

However, the computer is now starting "VERY SLOW" but all devices
seem to work.
Any ideas???

Do you have removable media copies of any important files from your
hard drives?

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Did the house have a lightning rig or whatever it's called ?

I life in appartement last couple of weeks lots of thunder over here.

A year ago or so I think lightning strike the back building on the lightning
rod.

So a few days ago the same thing happened. Lightning strikes again !

So the saying lighting never strikes twice is absolute bullshit.

So my point of the story:

Tell the house to get a fricking lightning rig !

Also the building where the lightning strikes is not the tallest building...
it's a smaller building but it does have a lightning rig...

I guess the higher buildings dont have a rig...

Lightning goes through shortest/best path to the earth it seems

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[spodosaurus]

Hi Everyone.
We had lightning hit across the street from us and my PC got zapped along
with other items in the house. Yes, I had two surge suppressors to no avail.
My home built PC is running a Intel D915GEV MB with four WD 250GB hard
drives and a PCI-E ATI All In Wonder video card.
The PCI-E slot got zapped and everything else is working. So, I'm running
the onboard graphics for now.
However, the computer is now starting "VERY SLOW" but all devices seem to
work.
Any ideas???
Please Help..
Zapped in Nebraska

It's dead/dying. Replace it.

--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

 

[RobV]

Hi Everyone.
We had lightning hit across the street from us and my PC got zapped
along with other items in the house. Yes, I had two surge suppressors
to no avail. My home built PC is running a Intel D915GEV MB with four
WD 250GB hard drives and a PCI-E ATI All In Wonder video card.
The PCI-E slot got zapped and everything else is working. So, I'm
running the onboard graphics for now.
However, the computer is now starting "VERY SLOW" but all devices
seem to work.
Any ideas???
Please Help..
Zapped in Nebraska

Sponosaurus is correct...if the strike did that much damage, you can be
sure it did damage to nearly every other component in the case. It may
run for a while, but the ESD damage can take a while to cause a complete
failure.

I wouldn't trust anything in the box and would write it off as a
complete loss. Backup what you can while it is still running.

 

[Ed Cregger]

Sponosaurus is correct...if the strike did that much damage, you can be
sure it did damage to nearly every other component in the case. It may
run for a while, but the ESD damage can take a while to cause a complete
failure.

I wouldn't trust anything in the box and would write it off as a complete
loss. Backup what you can while it is still running.

-------------

In fact, I would do as mentioned in the previous post (above) and then
contact my insurance company if I had homeowner's or apartment dweller's
insurance policies.

Ed Cregger
former insurance agent

 

[Matt]

Sponosaurus is correct...if the strike did that much damage, you can be
sure it did damage to nearly every other component in the case.

Nonsense.


It may
run for a while, but the ESD damage can take a while to cause a complete
failure.

I wouldn't trust anything in the box and would write it off as a
complete loss. Backup what you can while it is still running.

 

[John Doe]

Nonsense.

Why is that, Matt?

It's all on the same circuit. There is such a thing as partial
failure, it's not all ones and zeros.

 

[spodosaurus]

Why is that, Matt?

It's all on the same circuit. There is such a thing as partial
failure, it's not all ones and zeros.

Matt didn't believe me when I emailed him and told him not to insert his
mom's sex toy up his arse, either. You can find photographic evidence of
what happened next at several websites dedicated to emergency room x-rays.




--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

 

[geoff]

Hello,

It just so happens a year or 2 back, I had a lightning strike near my house,
I'm not sure if it was in the road in front of the house or the yard in back
of the house. My house, the houses on each side of me, and the house across
the street had damage, but minor.

My house took the worse hit. The garage door opener, garbage disposal, and
the dryer no longer worked. The gas line (flexible tubing) that feeds the
hot water heater, inside the house, blew and a flame was coming out of it.

My computer was on a UPS, one bought at 'Bait'n Switch Buy', and the network
connection was on a router.

The cable modem, router, and UPS died but the computer had no damage.

Many here kept posting how the UPS could not have protected the computer,
etc. However, it is what it is.

If your computer is doing that, running slowly, it may be time to
upgrade/buy new.

--g

 

[spodosaurus]

Hello,

It just so happens a year or 2 back, I had a lightning strike near my house,
I'm not sure if it was in the road in front of the house or the yard in back
of the house. My house, the houses on each side of me, and the house across
the street had damage, but minor.

My house took the worse hit. The garage door opener, garbage disposal, and
the dryer no longer worked. The gas line (flexible tubing) that feeds the
hot water heater, inside the house, blew and a flame was coming out of it.

My computer was on a UPS, one bought at 'Bait'n Switch Buy', and the network
connection was on a router.

The cable modem, router, and UPS died but the computer had no damage.

What, because it kept running? You can have a completely unroadworthy
vehicle that keeps running, too.

Many here kept posting how the UPS could not have protected the computer,
etc. However, it is what it is.

If your computer is doing that, running slowly, it may be time to
upgrade/buy new.

So all that you wrote above is contrary to what you're saying here...

Ari


--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

 

[John Doe]

It just so happens a year or 2 back, I had a lightning strike near
my house,

The cable modem, router, and UPS died but the computer had no
damage.

Many here kept posting how the UPS could not have protected the
computer, etc.

If you must dwell on stuff outside of this thread, please provide a
reference to the thread and the quotes you're talking about.

According to the original poster in this thread, the surge damaged
the mainboard. So clearly it got through the surge suppressor.

 

[w_tom]

We had lightning hit across the street from us and my PC got zapped along
with other items in the house. Yes, I had twosurgesuppressors to no avail..

First, those surge protectors did exactly what the manufacturer
claims. Does a protector stop surges? Well open one up. Notice a
direct connection from AC mains to computer. Nothing (other than a
circuit breaker and copper conductors) is between computer and AC
mains. Protectors too far from earth ground and too close to
computers may even contribute to computer damage.

Second, what was the path from AC mains to earth ground? Everything
in that path conducted a destructive surge. But only one or some
parts suffer damage. We know, for example, that memory would not be
damaged. Memory has an incoming path for electricity (the surge) but
no outgoing path.

Third, better computer manufacturers provide comprehensive hardware
diagnostics just for your problem. Your's is homebuillt. Motherboard
manufacturers typically provide no diagnostics even though diagnostics
exist and could have been provided for free. Download diagnostics
from each hardware component manufacturer or third party
diagnostics. For example, was harm to the video controller? Did
that video controller manufacturer provide diagnostics?

Collect facts so that others with more knowledge can post a useful
reply. Also important are facts from Device Manager and from system
(event) logs. What do they report?

Those who know hardware can routinely restore a lightning damaged
computer. Trick is to follow the surge path; identify then test the
suspects. For example, assume a surge was incoming on AC mains with
two surge protectors. Those surge protectors diverted a surge on AC
hot (black) wire to other AC wires. Now a surge can enter the
motherboard - bypass surge protection found inside all power
supplies. That is a likely incoming surge path made easier by
protectors located too close to the motherboard.

What is the outgoing path to earth? Outgoing paths could be network
card, telephone modem, table top (yes things like wood and concrete
are electrical conductors to surges), mouse cord touching something
conductive, etc. Identifying all possible outgoing paths, then
execute hardware diagnostics on those potential suspects.

This much is known. Surge must first flow in everything in a path
from incoming (ie AC electric) to outgoing (ie earth ground). No
incoming and outgoing means no surge damage. What was in that path?
Those are your suspects that require hardware diagnostics or
analysis. Again, also obtain facts from system logs and other
hardware reports.

Meanwhile, those two surge protectors did exactly what the
manufacturer claimed. Effective computer protection means surges do
not enter a building. Surges that are earthed before entering a
building do not overwhelm protection already inside all computers. If
those two surge protectors were adjacent to the computer, then the
surge was offered even more paths to earth, destructively, via that
computer. One ‘whole house’ protector would have made that computer
(and all other appliances) better protected. The superior solution
also costs less money.

Learn from the experience. Also learn what the incoming and
outgoing surge path was through the computer. Then install a 'whole
house' protector or upgrade the earthing of that incoming path so that
a surge does not enter the building that way again.

 

[david]

claims. Does a protector stop surges? Well open one up. Notice a
direct connection from AC mains to computer. Nothing (other than a
circuit breaker and copper conductors) is between computer and AC mains.
Protectors too far from earth ground and too close to computers may
even contribute to computer damage.

The only thing a surge protector can possibly do is shunt surge current
away from the item being protected. The MOV is a variable resistor that
had a low resistance when the surge voltage rises above its turn on
threshold. MOVs also have a finite life... each time they conduct, they
get weaker. Surge protectors that meet the UL requirement also have to
have to have some way to break the circuit if the MOV fails shorted...
they can catch fire spectacularly if this happens.

We know, for example, that memory would not be damaged.
Memory has an incoming path for electricity (the surge) but no outgoing
path.

Huh? That makes no sense. Every device in your computer has a power
circuit... power supply path, and return path.

This much is known. Surge must first flow in everything in a path
from incoming (ie AC electric) to outgoing (ie earth ground). No
incoming and outgoing means no surge damage. What was in that path?
Those are your suspects that require hardware diagnostics or analysis.
Again, also obtain facts from system logs and other hardware reports.

It is common in a lightning strike event to have a surge enter through a
ground connection, as the resistance of ground wiring connections is not
zero. Any large current flowing in the area can raise the potential on
ground. Lightning can generate tens of thousands of amps.

 

[geoff]

What, because it kept running? You can have a completely unroadworthy

vehicle that keeps running, too.

I hate it when college kids post here, so, let me repeat it, the computer,
no damage, operated normally, no glitches, no slowdowns, no changes . . .

Got it?

--g

 

[geoff]

If you must dwell on stuff outside of this thread, please provide a

reference to the thread and the quotes you're talking about.

Love it when college kids post here. The next message down talks about a
UPS and protecting the computer, however, I see you are not expressing your
opinion about the worthiness of the messages.

I suppose no one cares about your opinion on thread purity.

Thanks for the good work though, bye.

--g

 

[geoff]

If you must dwell on stuff outside of this thread, please provide a

reference to the thread and the quotes you're talking about.

BTW, use a threaded reader if you are having trouble following a thread.

--g

 

[w_tom]

Huh? That makes no sense. Every device in your computer has a power
circuit... power supply path, and return path.

Assume a destructive type surge entered memory on a signal or
voltage pin. Ok. That would be the incoming path. Where is the
outgoing path? This type surge cannot be outgoing on ground or
another signal line. Those lines are also charged near or up to the
same potential as that incoming pin. However, if you touch memory
when a surge occurs; now memory has an outgoing path to earth ground -
via you. Now damage may occur.

Surges that typically do damage are on some or all signal and power
lines. Not seeking a path to some other line. Any potential
difference between these pins is trivial. Surge seeks a connection to
earth. For memory, no such path exists.

Well, a surge incoming on memory from motherboard has no outgoing
path; memory not damaged. But the same surge typically has a
perfectly good outgoing path to earth via modem. Modem has an
incoming path from motherboard and outgoing to earth on phone line.
The most commonly destroyed section is a modem's DAA section; in
particular the PNP transistor for its off-hook relay. That outgoing
path connects the relay coil to its wiper. Modem damaged because a
surge on some or all signal and voltage pins found an outgoing path to
earth via telephone line.


Surges entering on ground are typically less likely; but possible.
For example, in one location, a surge entered on AC mains (either via
AC electric or that ground rod), crossed destructively through the
house, then outgoing on building's far side. Why? Discovered was a
graphite vein on that far side. Surge maybe incoming on service
ground rod locates a shorter electrical path to distant earthborne
charges (destructively through the house) via that graphite vein.

Solution was to surround that building with a buried conductor (halo
ground) so as to make earth beneath the building into a big and better
single point ground - create equipotential. Surge that traveled
underground around and outside a building need not enter the building
(see Faraday shielding to appreciate the concept). But again,
protection is defined by or made better by enhancing earth ground.
That home suffered surge damage from a possible underground surge
because its single point ground electrode was insufficient - did not
provide sufficient conductivity and equipotential.

Solution to a surge that entered via ground was to upgrade the
earthing system. A single point earth ground must be the best earth
ground so that surge protectors will shunt (divert) that energy into
that earthing electrode. If the building's earth ground is better,
then surges need not enter via that ground. After all, and again.
For a surge to enter on earth ground, that surge must also have some
other 'outgoing' earth ground path. Halo or Ufer grounds are two
solutions that make a rare 'incoming on earth' surge irrelevant.

Surges are electricity. A destructive surge can only exist when the
circuit has both an incoming and outgoing path. No outgoing path
means no surge damage.

 

[bud--]

..
Regarding the equipment connected to suppressors:
- Was all protected equipment connected to the same suppressor? or
- did all interconnecting wires go through the suppressor?
- Did all external wires, like phone and cable, go through the suppressor?

If you put a set of protected equipment in a box, all wires leaving the
box must go through the suppressor.

In particular, were the computer and monitor on the same suppressor?

What were the device ratings.


The best information on surges and surge protection I have seen is from
the IEEE:
<http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/LightningGuide_FINALpublishedversion_May051.pdf>

And also from the US government NIST:
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/practiceguides/surgesfnl.pdf

The IEEE guide is aimed at those with some technical background. The
NIST guide is aimed at the unwashed masses.
..

First, those surge protectors did exactly what the manufacturer
claims.

..
Nonsense.
Both the IEEE and NIST guides say plug-in suppressors are effective.
..

Does a protector stop surges?

..
As the IEEE guide explains (pdf page 40), plug-in suppressors work
primarily by clamping (limiting) the voltage on all wires (power and
signal) to the ground at the suppressor. Nobody but w_ talks about
"stopping" surges. The guide also explains that plug-in suppressors do
not work primarily by earthing.
..

One ‘whole house’ protector would have made that computer
(and all other appliances) better protected.

..
Service panel suppressors are a good idea.

But from the NIST guide:
"Q - Will a surge protector installed at the service entrance be
sufficient for the whole house?
A - There are two answers to than question: Yes for one-link appliances
[electronic equipment], No for two-link appliances [equipment connected
to power AND phone or cable or....]. Since most homes today have some
kind of two-link appliances, the prudent answer to the question would be
NO - but that does not mean that a surge protector installed at the
service entrance is useless."

Service panel suppressors do not prevent high voltages from developing
between power and phone/cable wires. To limit the voltage you need a
*short* wire connecting the cable/phone entrance protectors to the
ground at the power service. A ground wire that is too long is
illustrated in the IEEE guide starting pdf page 40.

Even then, a near strike can induce voltages on wires with the wires
acting a long wire or loop antennas. (For example inside a house the
cable wire and power wires form a loop - connected at service points,
loop output to TV.)

The NIST guide, using US insurance information, indicates equipment with
power plus phone/cable connections is the most likely to be damaged.

And the NIST guide says some devices, like garage door openers, can be
damaged by direct pickup on antennas (or door electric eye wires).
Neither service panel or plug-in suppressors will provide protection.

 

[John Doe]

The only thing a surge protector can possibly do is shunt surge
current away from the item being protected. The MOV is a variable
resistor that had a low resistance when the surge voltage rises
above its turn on threshold.

I thought so too, until after reading many intelligent counter
replies to w_tom. When a very large voltage appears at the MOV
input, the MOV short-circuits thereby making both points the same
voltage. I suppose the current flow might be extreme, but shunting
electricity is not really what protects the circuit. Since the
circuit input and output voltages are the same thanks to the MOV
becoming a short-circuit, destructive current flow through the
protected device is (ideally) prevented.

Good luck arguing with w_tom.