Legality of installing XP bundled with one computer on another computer

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Jensen?=]

Hi there,

I have a question regarding the legality of what I want to do here. The
situation is that I had a Fujitsu Siemens PC that came bundled with
Windows XP (It is printed on the disc that it is only to be sold with a
new Fujitsu Siemens PC). Unfortunately it died (lightning) and I bought
a new PC. This new PC is a non branded PC and it didn't come with XP. My
question is now, would it be legal to install the version of XP that I
allready have on this PC? Is it even possible?

All my sense tells me that it should not be a problem since I allready
payed for the software, but I just want to make sure.

Thanks in advance,
/René

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Hi there,

I have a question regarding the legality of what I want to do here. The
situation is that I had a Fujitsu Siemens PC that came bundled with
Windows XP (It is printed on the disc that it is only to be sold with a
new Fujitsu Siemens PC). Unfortunately it died (lightning) and I bought
a new PC. This new PC is a non branded PC and it didn't come with XP. My
question is now, would it be legal to install the version of XP that I
allready have on this PC?

No. By your own admission, you'll have an OEM licenses for WinXP
on the computers. An OEM version must be sold with a non-peripheral
piece of hardware (normally a motherboard or hard rive, if not an entire
PC) and is _permanently_ bound to the first PC on which it's installed.
An OEM license, once installed, is not legitimately transferable to
another computer under _any_ circumstances.

Is it even possible?

That depends upon the specific type of OEM installation CD that
came with the defunct computer. If you have a manufacturer's Recovery
or Restore CD, there's no way the installation would work, technically.
If you have a BIOS-locked OEM installation CD, there's no way the
installation would work. If you happen to have an unbranded, generic
OEM CD, the installation would work. However, the fact that the
installation works does not mean that you aren't in violation of the
license. And, if the OEM CD was provided by a major company, you'll
have to activate by telephone, deliberately lying to the activation
agent in the process.

All my sense tells me that it should not be a problem since I allready
payed for the software, but I just want to make sure.

Your "sense" is flawed, in this case. The OEM License that came with
the PC was deeply discounted, as compared to a full-featured retail
license. One cannot reasonably expect to pay a discounted price for a
limited product and yet expect a product with no limitations. One of an
OEM license's limitations is a lack of transferability.

There are some very important reasons that an OEM license costs so
much less than a retail license. OEM licenses are very limited:

1) OEM versions must be sold with a piece of non-peripheral
hardware (normally a motherboard or hard drive, if not an entire PC,
although Microsoft has greatly relaxed the hardware criteria for WinXP)
and are _permanently_ bound to the first PC on which they are installed.
An OEM license, once installed, is not legally transferable to another
computer under any circumstances. This is the main reason some people
avoid OEM versions; if the PC dies or is otherwise disposed of (even
stolen), you cannot re-use your OEM license on a new PC. The only
legitimate way to transfer the ownership of an OEM license is to
transfer ownership of the entire PC.

2) Microsoft provides no free support for OEM versions. If you
have any problems that require outside assistance, your only recourse is
to contact the manufacturer/builder of the PC or the vendor of the OEM
license. This would include such issues as lost a Product Key or
replacing damaged installation media. (Microsoft does make allowances
for those instances when you can prove that the OEM has gone out of
business.) This doesn't mean that you can't download patches and
service packs from Microsoft -- just no free telephone or email support
for problems with the OS.

3) An OEM CD cannot be used to perform an upgrade of an earlier
OS, as it was designed to be installed _only_ upon an empty hard drive.
It can still be used to perform a repair installation (a.k.a. an
in-place upgrade) of an existing WinXP installation.

4) If the OEM CD was designed by a specific manufacturer, such as
eMachines, Sony, Dell, Gateway, etc., it will most likely only install
on the same brand of PC, as an additional anti-piracy feature. Further,
such CDs are severely customized to contain only the minimum of device
drivers, and a lot of extra nonsense, that the manufacturer feels
necessary for the specific model of PC for which the CD was designed.
(To be honest, such CDs should _not_ be available on the open market;
but, if you're shopping someplace on-line like eBay, swap meets, or
computer fairs, there's often no telling what you're buying until it's
too late.) The "generic" OEM CDs, such as are manufactured by Microsoft
and sold to small systems builders, don't have this particular problem,
though, and are pretty much the same as their retail counterparts, apart
from the licensing, support, and upgrading restrictions.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

 

[Guest]

Sorry, but the Windows XP OEM license provided
by Fujitsu is non-transferrable to a different computer.
The license died along with your Fujitsu and is no
use to you. You'll need to purchase a conventional
"Full Version" of Windows XP for your new computer.

 

[Kerry Brown]

Hi there,

I have a question regarding the legality of what I want to do here.
The situation is that I had a Fujitsu Siemens PC that came bundled
with Windows XP (It is printed on the disc that it is only to be sold
with a new Fujitsu Siemens PC). Unfortunately it died (lightning) and
I bought a new PC. This new PC is a non branded PC and it didn't come
with XP. My question is now, would it be legal to install the version
of XP that I allready have on this PC? Is it even possible?

All my sense tells me that it should not be a problem since I allready
payed for the software, but I just want to make sure.

Thanks in advance,
/René

The legality is open to much debate. According to the Microsft license what
you have is an OEM version of Windows. The EULA which you agreed to when you
first booted the Fujitsu pc says that the OEM Windows license is forever
tied to that pc and shouldn't be moved.

If it can be done is another story. Some OEM versions of Windows will only
run on one brand of pc. I'm not sure if the Windows supplied with Fujitsu
falls into this catagory. If it doesn't and you have a full install CD then
it could be installed on another pc. You may or may not have problems
activating Windows. You won't know until you try it. The legal, moral, and
ethical questions you'll have to decide for yourself.

Kerry

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Rene

Not wishing to be rude but what part of "....only to be sold with a new
Fujitsu Siemens PC" do you not understand

 

[Guest]

The legality of OEM licensing is not open to debate!
The manufacturer's OEM EULA clearly states:

Software as a Component of the Computer - Transfer.

THIS LICENSE MAY NOT BE SHARED, TRANSFERRED TO OR
USED CONCURRENTLY ON DIFFERENT COMPUTERS.
The SOFTWARE is licensed with the COMPUTER as a single
integrated product and may only be used with the COMPUTER. If
the SOFTWARE is not accompanied by HARDWARE, you may not use
the SOFTWARE.

 

[Kerry Brown]

Has it ever been tested in court? Until it has it no one knows if it will
stand up. When or if it has it will only be a legal contract in the
jurisdiction where it is tested. Personally I abide by the terms of the
license and encourage others to do so. René asked if it is possible as well
as is it legal? It may not be legal. It is probably possible.

Kerry

 

[Alias]

The legality of OEM licensing is not open to debate!
The manufacturer's OEM EULA clearly states:

Software as a Component of the Computer - Transfer.

THIS LICENSE MAY NOT BE SHARED, TRANSFERRED TO OR
USED CONCURRENTLY ON DIFFERENT COMPUTERS.
The SOFTWARE is licensed with the COMPUTER as a single
integrated product and may only be used with the COMPUTER. If
the SOFTWARE is not accompanied by HARDWARE, you may not use
the SOFTWARE.

Um, this is not a law and therefore has nothing to do with the legality
of same. What it *is* is a scam because it's an agreement you have to
agree to when installing, not at the time of purchase and if you do not
agree to it, you cannot get your money back and *that* should be illegal.

The fact that you support this scam writes volumes about how far your
head is up M$' ass.

Alias

 

[Alias]

Rene

Not wishing to be rude but what part of "....only to be sold with a new
Fujitsu Siemens PC" do you not understand

What MS wants is not law. For that reason, even MS knows better than to
take anyone to court for it.

Alias

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Is this how the world ends?.. unless there is a federal law passed, to hell
with morality?.. I see many posts blaming Microsoft, but their agreement
with OEM builders is quite clear.. one computer and one computer ONLY, that
computer being the machine originally installed from the OEM CD..

It is the vendors who sell on the machines loaded with OEM XP, or OEM
anything, who should make their customer aware of the limitations.. BUT THEY
DON"T because there is no law.. what about the moral responsibility to the
customer?..

What a sad world this is..

 

[H. S.]

Is this how the world ends?.. unless there is a federal law passed, to hell
with morality?.. I see many posts blaming Microsoft, but their agreement

This has nothing to do with MS blaming:

Business corporations do not work based on morality, why should the
consumers? Business corporations just work to make money with any means
possible (unless those means are proved to be illegal), moral or not, to
satisfy their shareholders. So consumers should also save money by any
means possible, moral or not, *until* those means are proved to be illegal.

 

[ANONYMOUS]

This is what Microsoft website OEM FAQ says:

Q. My customer bought a new PC and wants to move their OEM software from
the old PC to the new one. Can't they do whatever they want with the
software?

A. The OEM software is licensed with the computer system on which it was
originally installed and is tied to that original machine. OEM licenses
are single-use licenses that cannot be installed on more than one
computer system even if the original machine is no longer in use. The
end user license agreement (EULA) accepted by the customer before they
use the software, states that the license may not be shared, transferred
to or used concurrently on different computers. The System Builder is
required to provide end-user support for the Windows license. A System
Builder can not support a license that has been moved from a PC they
manufactured to one that they did not — this is a fundamental reason why
OEM System Builder licenses can't be transferred.


Q. Can my customers transfer or sell their OEM software licenses?
A. After an OEM software license has been installed on a PC, the license
may not be installed on or transferred to another PC. However, the
entire PC may be transferred to another end user along with the software
license rights. When transferring the PC to the new end user the
software media, manuals (if applicable) and certificate of authenticity
label must be included. It is also advisable to include the original
purchase invoice or receipt. The original end user cannot keep any
copies of the software.

The end user license agreement (EULA) is granted to the end user by the
System Builder and relates to the license on the PC with which it was
originally distributed. Because the System Builder is required to
support the license on that original PC, a System Builder can not
support a license that has been moved from a PC they manufactured to one
that they did not. This is one of the key reasons why an OEM System
Builder license can’t be transferred. For more information, click here.

hth

 

[Alias]

Is this how the world ends?.. unless there is a federal law passed, to hell
with morality?.. I see many posts blaming Microsoft, but their agreement
with OEM builders is quite clear.. one computer and one computer ONLY, that
computer being the machine originally installed from the OEM CD..

I never made that agreement with MS or anyone else until after I bought
the generic OEM, opened it, installed it and clicked on the EULA. At
that point if I were to choose not to agree to it, I am out my money.
Where's the morality in that? It's forced compliance if you want to use
the product you buy and, if you don't want to comply, they keep your
money. And the ironic thing is that people get all huffy and moral when
someone does something that breaches the EULA. I've had my copy of XP on
this machine for well over 120 days and if you think that I won't use my
XP on a new machine that I build if this one should get hit by
lightening, you're crazy, and I won't feel one iota of guilt for doing so.

Alias

 

[Alias]

This is what Microsoft website OEM FAQ says:

Q. My customer bought a new PC and wants to move their OEM software from
the old PC to the new one. Can't they do whatever they want with the
software?

A. The OEM software is licensed with the computer system on which it was
originally installed and is tied to that original machine. OEM licenses
are single-use licenses that cannot be installed on more than one
computer system even if the original machine is no longer in use. The
end user license agreement (EULA) accepted by the customer before they
use the software, states that the license may not be shared, transferred
to or used concurrently on different computers. The System Builder is
required to provide end-user support for the Windows license. A System
Builder can not support a license that has been moved from a PC they
manufactured to one that they did not — this is a fundamental reason why
OEM System Builder licenses can't be transferred.


Q. Can my customers transfer or sell their OEM software licenses?
A. After an OEM software license has been installed on a PC, the license
may not be installed on or transferred to another PC. However, the
entire PC may be transferred to another end user along with the software
license rights. When transferring the PC to the new end user the
software media, manuals (if applicable) and certificate of authenticity
label must be included. It is also advisable to include the original
purchase invoice or receipt. The original end user cannot keep any
copies of the software.

The end user license agreement (EULA) is granted to the end user by the
System Builder and relates to the license on the PC with which it was
originally distributed. Because the System Builder is required to
support the license on that original PC, a System Builder can not
support a license that has been moved from a PC they manufactured to one
that they did not. This is one of the key reasons why an OEM System
Builder license can’t be transferred. For more information, click here.

hth

"Another computer" is not defined. A person who buys a generic OEM is
not addressed, just System Builders like Dell, HP, etc.

Soooo, upgrading IS allowed with a generic OEM, including updating the
computer to the point where it is "another computer".

Can you clarify these discrepancies?

Alias

 

[ANONYMOUS]

Has it ever been tested in court? Until it has it no one knows if it will
stand up. When or if it has it will only be a legal contract in the
jurisdiction where it is tested. Personally I abide by the terms of the
license and encourage others to do so. René asked if it is possible as well
as is it legal? It may not be legal. It is probably possible.

Well, Microsoft does not have to take anyone to court. It already has a
system in place which stop you from using the software. It is upto you
to take on Microsoft and see if you win. Microsoft will defend itself
in court if needs be but the user has to start the proceedings.

The system in place is called ACTIVATION and as your product will not
activate, MS can remain quiet and wait for you to make the move.

This is the best scheme I have come across thus far and it works 99% of
the time.

 

[ANONYMOUS]

What MS wants is not law. For that reason, even MS knows better than to
take anyone to court for it.

Microsoft does not have to take anyone to court. It already has a
system in place which stops you from using the software. It is upto
you, the user,
to take on Microsoft and see if you win. Microsoft will defend itself
in court if needs be but the user has to start the proceedings.

The system in place is called ACTIVATION and as your product will not
activate, MS can remain quiet and wait for you to make the move.

This is the best scheme I have come across thus far and it works 99% of
the time.

 

[ANONYMOUS]

"Another computer" is not defined. A person who buys a generic OEM is
not addressed, just System Builders like Dell, HP, etc.

Soooo, upgrading IS allowed with a generic OEM, including updating the
computer to the point where it is "another computer".

Can you clarify these discrepancies?

What do you understand by the term COMPUTER? Have you got the slightest
idea what could this term be? I am quite sure what the court will come
out with. It will definitely not what you seem to be thinking.

Microsoft does not have to activate your product and it is upto you to
challenge them in the courts. They are waiting for you. The ball is in
their court for you to get it!

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

HS

Taking your point first.. take it up with the corporations.. the computer
manufacturer knows what the OEM agreement entails, the computer stores know
what the agreement entails, and if they don't, they should not be in the
business of selling computers..

They CHOOSE not to make the end user aware because it would jeopardise
sales.. the fact that they choose to un-inform the customer of the
limitations is entirely down to them and their complete and utter lack of
morality.. so talk to them about it.. try to change what is happening out
there.. complain to your government that corporations in your country seem
to have carte blanche to rip you off.. get the consumer laws changed..

Relying on morality is useless, but it shouldn't be, and is a sad reflection
on society as a whole.. the 'oh well, they do it so why shouldn't I" will
not lead to a better society and you know it..

Alias

There is wording on the OEM package that should set alarm bells off in the
mind of the purchaser that OEM may have restrictions.. so ask the vendor
what the restrictions are, and if they don't tell you the truth, hold them
responsible for misleading you.. personally, I don't think that the
consumer should have to ask.. if the vendor is party to information that
might lead the customer not to buy something because there are so many
restrictions that the said customer would no longer be sure if they were
still allowed to 'pee' between the hours of 11pm - 7am, then the vendor has
a moral obligation to make the customer aware.. it is that simple..

 

[Alias]

Well, Microsoft does not have to take anyone to court. It already has a
system in place which stop you from using the software.

But no refund if you don't agree to the EULA.

It is upto you

to take on Microsoft and see if you win. Microsoft will defend itself
in court if needs be but the user has to start the proceedings.

The system in place is called ACTIVATION and as your product will not
activate, MS can remain quiet and wait for you to make the move.

LOL! If someone breaks the EULA, it's up to MS to take them to court.
Activation stops no one.

This is the best scheme I have come across thus far and it works 99% of
the time.

Yep, wait 120 days, reinstall it on another computer and you're done.

Alias

 

[Alias]

What do you understand by the term COMPUTER?

Again, the EULA does not define it.

Have you got the slightest
idea what could this term be?

Obviously more than you do.

I am quite sure what the court will come

out with. It will definitely not what you seem to be thinking.

Upgrading a computer's hardware is allowed. Nowhere in the EULA I agreed
to defines when upgrading turns the machine into "another computer". So
far, on this computer, I have upgraded the processor, changed the floppy
drive, changed the RAM and replaced the motherboard, NIC, video card and
audio card. In addition, I changed the speakers, monitor, mouse and
keyboard. It activated online. Do I have a new computer? It's the same
case and the same hard drives. What is *your* take on how MS defines a
"new computer", hot shot?

Microsoft does not have to activate your product and it is upto you to
challenge them in the courts. They are waiting for you. The ball is in
their court for you to get it!

Microsoft *does* have to activate it if you've followed the EULA which
DOES NOT DEFINE WHAT A NEW COMPUTER IS! And they do, time and time
again. You are disagreeing with MS and you are misleading people who
read this newsgroup. The only *clear* thing is that you *may* not
install XP on two computers simultaneously.

Alias