WinXP legality issue. Advice please.

[Phrank]

Hello,

I was looking to buy Windows XP on ebay, and I've noticed that the
vast majority of the items being sold are OEM with the phrase "For
Diistribution Only with a New PC". What is the legality of buying and
using such a copy? Thanks.

Frank

 

[Michael Stevens]

Hello,

I was looking to buy Windows XP on ebay, and I've noticed that the
vast majority of the items being sold are OEM with the phrase "For
Diistribution Only with a New PC". What is the legality of buying and
using such a copy? Thanks.

Frank

OEM versions of XP can be sold and usually they are sold with a piece of
hardware. The legality of the ones available would need to be evaluated on a
seller by seller basis. Beware of vendor [DELL, HP, Compaq, etc.] branded
OEM versions; as they most likely have a less than pristine origin.

--
Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm

 

[Bobbie Leslie]

I've bought a large number of the OEM CD's and the seller is supposed
to sell you something in the way of hardware to meet the Microsoft
requirement. Usually it's a defunct hard drive or maybe a working
mouse. etc, etc. I wouldn't worry about that as much as you should
remember that when you buy an OEM CD, or OEM anything, that is all you
get! No books, no instructions, no nothing, in this case just the CD
with the CD key and be careful that you don't throw away the plastic
wrapper because that's usually where the CD key is located.
Bob

 

[Phrank]

Thanks Bob and Michael. Good info. Seems like a silly loophole to
me. But then again, I'm trying to abide by the rules, but I'm
probably but one of millions who feel I should be able to use my
expensive copy of Windows on all of my home computers. So, I'll abide
by the rules and buy an OEM version with a piece of hardware. Thanks!

Frank

 

[Alex Nichol]

I was looking to buy Windows XP on ebay, and I've noticed that the
vast majority of the items being sold are OEM with the phrase "For
Diistribution Only with a New PC". What is the legality of buying and
using such a copy? Thanks.

Those are for sale only by registered system builders with at least some
item of hardware and with restrictions on transfer, and no support from
Microsoft. I doubt if copies on eBay are being sold in accordance with
that and it would treat them with a lot of suspicion. They might be
copies that had been bought in that way and happened never to have been
used, but it seems more probable that they are not

 

[XS11E]

Those are for sale only by registered system builders with at
least some item of hardware and with restrictions on transfer, and
no support from Microsoft. I doubt if copies on eBay are being
sold in accordance with that and it would treat them with a lot of
suspicion.

Sales on ebay are usually well regulated. The OEM copies have the
drawbacks mentioned but they are very likely legitimate OEM software.

Look for COA in the discription. Make SURE it's not an "Academic
Version" unless you qualify.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Sales on ebay are usually well regulated.

Please provide a link to any eBay version that is well-regulated.
My experiences and observations, not to mention countless news
articles, indicate just the opposite. EBay makes virtually no effort
to ensure that the sale of copyrighted material is legitimate, and
takes steps to remove illegal items only after a complaint has been
filed.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having
both at once. - RAH

 

[XS11E]

Please provide a link to any eBay version that is
well-regulated.
My experiences and observations, not to mention countless news
articles, indicate just the opposite. EBay makes virtually no
effort to ensure that the sale of copyrighted material is
legitimate, and takes steps to remove illegal items only after a
complaint has been filed.

You might read their policies as a start. I seriously doubt you're any
experience to the contrary.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

You might read their policies as a start.

I've read their "policies." They amount to the old phrase: "The
check is in the mail." Empty promises with no effort behind them, in
other words. Even when eBay does cancel an illegal sale and "ban" the
seller, he's soon back under a different username, selling the same
crap.

I seriously doubt you're
any experience to the contrary.

Then you'd be seriously mistaken. A simple search of eBay for
WinXP will reveal numerous instances of illegal sales of
Dell/Gateway/etc OEM installation CDs. Try it.

--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having
both at once. - RAH

 

[XS11E]

I've read their "policies." They amount to the old phrase:
"The check is in the mail." Empty promises with no effort behind
them, in other words. Even when eBay does cancel an illegal sale and
"ban" the seller, he's soon back under a different username,
selling the same crap.

In other words, you're saying ebay has exactly the same problems as
your local attorney general's office.

Then you'd be seriously mistaken. A simple search of eBay for
WinXP will reveal numerous instances of illegal sales of
Dell/Gateway/etc OEM installation CDs. Try it.

Such sales are not illegal.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

In other words, you're saying ebay has exactly the same problems as
your local attorney general's office.

Not at all, the Attorney General enforces the laws, and has
investigators that actively seek out and arrest criminals. eBay makes
no effort to prevent the posting of illegal sales, nor does it
initiate any investigations, and removes those sales only when forced
to do so.

Such sales are not illegal.

Unless those OEM installation CDs are also accompanied by the
Dell/Gateway/etc computer with which they were originally sold, then
those sales _are_ illegal. Have you never read an OEM EULA?


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. - RAH

 

[XS11E]

Not at all, the Attorney General enforces the laws, and has
investigators that actively seek out and arrest criminals. eBay
makes no effort to prevent the posting of illegal sales, nor does
it initiate any investigations, and removes those sales only when
forced to do so.

That's incorrect, eBay does police it's sellers and removes those who
have violated their policies.

My comment was that any company forced out of business by action either
by eBay or by the local authorities can come back as a new entity and
continue until caught again.

Unless those OEM installation CDs are also accompanied by the
Dell/Gateway/etc computer with which they were originally sold,
then those sales _are_ illegal. Have you never read an OEM EULA?

Yes, I have. Again, such sales are not illegal, sorry.

You're quite welcome to continue posting your own dislike of eBay and
you're own imaginings as to what they do wrong, similarly you certainly
may and no doubt will continue posting your own ideas as to what's
illegal, me, I'll stick with whats real and not bother to respond
again.

 

[Phil]

Those are for sale only by registered system builders with at least
some
item of hardware and with restrictions on transfer, and no support
from
Microsoft. I doubt if copies on eBay are being sold in accordance
with
that and it would treat them with a lot of suspicion. They might be
copies that had been bought in that way and happened never to have
been
used, but it seems more probable that they are not


--
Alex Nichol MS MVP (Windows Technologies)
Bournemouth, U.K. (e-mail address removed)8E8L.org (remove the D8 bit)

Unless those OEM installation CDs are also accompanied by the
Dell/Gateway/etc computer with which they were originally sold, then
those sales _are_ illegal. Have you never read an OEM EULA?

I am not surprised at Bruce talking about what an eula has to do with
the law but I am a bit amazed that Alex who is in England does.

For the record here in the UK a company does not make the laws but
Parliament do. NO one may impose contract terms retrospectivly. If I
go to my hardware supplier and Buy a disk with OEM XP I am perfectly
at liberty to sell it on. It belongs to me. I have agreed with no one
that I need to be registered. It was not a condition of the original
sale that I so be.

Provided I do not break UK copyright laws then I may do what I want
with it.

The EULA is pretty meaningless in terms of UK laws and I wish that you
Bruce
would stop saying that breaking the EULA is illegal.
It is not as I have stated contract terms imposed retrospectvly are
invalid Here in UK and our statutary rights cannot be over written by
a company and in any case in the UK you do not have any type of
contract with a manufacturer so attempting to make you agree to a
license to use something bought condition free from a retail shop is a
nonsense and cannot be enforced.

This has as far as I know never been tested in a UK court. Of course
MS would via the likes of you Bruce who are not very well informed
about UK law love to give the impression that they make the laws here
and that selling an OEM disk is "Illegal" however it is not. All it
does is breaks an unenforcable license to which i have been forced to
agree before I can use it. The EULA probably breaks our unfair
contract laws even if it was seen to be a legally binding contract.
Actually Bruce since you constantly tell us that it is Illegal under
the EULA to sell your COA disk or transfer your OS perhaps you would
tell us which British Law you believe this contravenes.
PS I am not at all interested in the situation in US of A

 

[Alex Nichol]

For the record here in the UK a company does not make the laws but
Parliament do. NO one may impose contract terms retrospectivly. If I
go to my hardware supplier and Buy a disk with OEM XP I am perfectly
at liberty to sell it on. It belongs to me. I have agreed with no one
that I need to be registered. It was not a condition of the original
sale that I so be.

A sale can be subject to acceptance of an agreement. That of an
installation of an OS can be subject to acceptance of the EULA - which
is presented as part of the install. And the vendor *ought* to make
this clear. A lawyer I have asked considers that this would stand up in
court

 

[Phil]

A sale can be subject to acceptance of an agreement. That of an
installation of an OS can be subject to acceptance of the EULA - which
is presented as part of the install. And the vendor *ought* to make
this clear. A lawyer I have asked considers that this would stand up in
court

Yes but only if that agreement happens at time of sale to me.
I do not agree anything with anyone except that I would hand over a
sum of cash in return for a copy of an OS which I am not allowed under
copyright law to make copies and then sell to a third party

It is of no interest to me at all what a vendor ought to have done.

I go to a trade supplier and buy the disk end of story.


and if I sell on the OEM disk to an end customer the EULA for what it
is worth is also of no interest to me as I am not being asked to agree
to it.
So what exactly am I going to be taken to court for? Not being
registered?

So why do MS not stop the wholesalers selling these disks to all and
sundry? usually without any hardware?
Go figure


MS happily allow plenty of suppliers to sell OEM

Please cite where it states that OEM cannot be bought or sold by
someone who is not registered.