K8V SE Deluxe: HD-Controller Problem?

[Tillerman]

Hello everyone!

I bought a new Athlon64 system in May, and I am experiencing a whole
lot of problems with it, ranging from
windows-not-easy-to-install-on-160gB-drive to frequent spontaneous
reboots.

The System:

ASUS K8V SE Deluxe
AMD Athlon 64 3200+
Zalman Cooler
2x512mB DDR RAM 400MHz, good german brand
PNY Geforce 5700 LE 128mB
Drives:
160gB Maxtor 7.2k 8mB
160gB Samsung 5.4k 2mB
80gB WD 7.2k 2mB
Ricoh 4x DVD+ Burner
(all connected to the PATA controllers of the southbridge rather than
any of the fancy SATA/Raid controllers)
350W AC adapter

----

I don't want to bother you with a detailed description of
how-I-finally-got-windowsXP-running. Somhow I made it. The numerous
groups covering this range of problems were of great help for me.


The persistent problems are spontaneous reboots (once in 3 days on
average) and bad data security. I guess that both problems are related
to the same source: At least once in 100mB of data written to any (!)
of the three discs at least one bit appears to be falsificated. This
is perceivable as local color-failures in JPG images or corruption of
almost all CD-Images created with the system. The spontaneous reboots
may be linked to this problem via the swapfile.

Has anyone out there the same problem? Do you have a tip how to proove
that the controller is the bad guy, not the discs themselves?
Does anyone remember the VIA-Southbridge bug from a cvouple of years
before and how that story ended?

Thanks for your help!

Tillerman

 

[Steve Birch]

The persistent problems are spontaneous reboots (once in 3 days on
average) and bad data security. I guess that both problems are related
to the same source: At least once in 100mB of data written to any (!)
of the three discs at least one bit appears to be falsificated. This
is perceivable as local color-failures in JPG images or corruption of
almost all CD-Images created with the system. The spontaneous reboots
may be linked to this problem via the swapfile.

Yes I remember the VIA southbridge problems only too well!
I made my K8V system to replace one based in the KT133A because I had JUST
HAD ENOUGH of the problems with it, mostly related to USB in my case, but
generally speaking that South Bridge was fairly evil.

I am using both ATA and SATA on this K8V system, with no data integrity
problems. Like you, it took a while to work out just how to install
everything correctly, but once it was done, it was OK.
I presume that you are using good quality 80-conductor cables for the disk
drives?
One thought - Are you absolutely CERTAIN that your memory is working
perfectly? This system tends to be fussy about memory, and if there is a
problem it can manifest itself in all sorts of ways. Do you know what
stepping of processor you are using ? The "CG" stepping (later) processors
are not nearly so fussy as earlier (C0?) ones.
I would suggest running memtest86 for a long time (if you have not already
done so) to be sure. Also, update to the latest BIOS as some of the BIOS
updates have corrected know memory timing issues.

- Steve

 

[Paul]

Yes I remember the VIA southbridge problems only too well!
I made my K8V system to replace one based in the KT133A because I had JUST
HAD ENOUGH of the problems with it, mostly related to USB in my case, but
generally speaking that South Bridge was fairly evil.

I am using both ATA and SATA on this K8V system, with no data integrity
problems. Like you, it took a while to work out just how to install
everything correctly, but once it was done, it was OK.
I presume that you are using good quality 80-conductor cables for the disk
drives?
One thought - Are you absolutely CERTAIN that your memory is working
perfectly? This system tends to be fussy about memory, and if there is a
problem it can manifest itself in all sorts of ways. Do you know what
stepping of processor you are using ? The "CG" stepping (later) processors
are not nearly so fussy as earlier (C0?) ones.
I would suggest running memtest86 for a long time (if you have not already
done so) to be sure. Also, update to the latest BIOS as some of the BIOS
updates have corrected know memory timing issues.

- Steve

I agree with Steve. Start by testing memory first, with memtest86
from memtest.org . Memtest86 will format a standalone boot floppy
(or you can make an ISO CD with the other version) and that can
be used to boot your system.

If memtest86 passes, double check by running Prime95 mersenne.org
in Torture Test mode, as memory or processor problems should be
eliminated as possibilities first.

If you can make it through those two tests, then maybe you
can blame a bad Southbridge, but my betting money is on
something more fundamental.

Paul

 

[Tillerman]

I agree with Steve. Start by testing memory first, with memtest86
from memtest.org . Memtest86 will format a standalone boot floppy
(or you can make an ISO CD with the other version) and that can
be used to boot your system.

If memtest86 passes, double check by running Prime95 mersenne.org
in Torture Test mode, as memory or processor problems should be
eliminated as possibilities first.

If you can make it through those two tests, then maybe you
can blame a bad Southbridge, but my betting money is on
something more fundamental.

Paul

OK, that was the first thing I thought about, too. I had Memtest86
running oer night without problems. I will try Prime95 now, because
certainly you are right: It sounds like a fundamentl problem!
I don't believe in a problem concerning the 80-conductor-cables,
because (1) thy are new (from the mainboard package) and (2) the
thirdt disc also showed data integrity problems, but runs on the
second cable.
But something else came to my mind: Could the 350W AC-adapter be
related to the problem? I know from tests in the literature that
irrespective of the claimed xxxW the 5V and/or 12V output stability
may still be a problem under certain conditions. To my knowledge this
is a problem that does NOT diminish if you by especially expensive
adapters but it is a general design problem that my occur or not. You
can't control for it.
What made me think of this: When I boot the system the harddrives spin
up and everything is OK until BIOS boot is over. But just before the
discs are searched for a bootyble OS, all drives are shut down, spin
up again after a short break, and booting continues without noticable
problems. Not enough power for three discs? I tried with another
adapter, which is even a bit weaker (300W), and the problem is just
the same. Not worse, not better. Also when only one drive is
connected, the temorary shutting down occurs.
For your information, because this would be the first thing to ask
for: the PATA RAID controller and the SATA controllers are disabled in
BIOS. BIOS version is the newest I could get: V1003.002. I could not
check for processor stepping, because it is not listed in the DMI.
Still I took some pictures aof the processor prior to assembly of
MB/CPU/heatsink, so if anyone tells me how to translate the numbers
and letters printed there, I could find out.


I called the vendor of the system and was surpirsed about their
not-beeing-surprised by my story. Still they promised that they had no
reports like mine so far. They would provide me with a new board if I
wish, even a different model would be OK. So here's the next question:
which manufacturer and chipset would you advise? How likely is it that
I have bought a lemon and the next ASUS K8V runs smoothly in my
system? Certainly I would prefer to stay with the current mainboard
type because I wouldn't have to re-install windows...

Tilman

 

[JBM]

(e-mail address removed) (Paul) wrote in message

OK, that was the first thing I thought about, too. I had Memtest86
running oer night without problems. I will try Prime95 now, because
certainly you are right: It sounds like a fundamentl problem!
I don't believe in a problem concerning the 80-conductor-cables,
because (1) thy are new (from the mainboard package) and (2) the
thirdt disc also showed data integrity problems, but runs on the
second cable.
But something else came to my mind: Could the 350W AC-adapter be
related to the problem? I know from tests in the literature that
irrespective of the claimed xxxW the 5V and/or 12V output stability
may still be a problem under certain conditions. To my knowledge this
is a problem that does NOT diminish if you by especially expensive
adapters but it is a general design problem that my occur or not. You
can't control for it.
What made me think of this: When I boot the system the harddrives spin
up and everything is OK until BIOS boot is over. But just before the
discs are searched for a bootyble OS, all drives are shut down, spin
up again after a short break, and booting continues without noticable
problems. Not enough power for three discs? I tried with another
adapter, which is even a bit weaker (300W), and the problem is just
the same. Not worse, not better. Also when only one drive is
connected, the temorary shutting down occurs.
For your information, because this would be the first thing to ask
for: the PATA RAID controller and the SATA controllers are disabled in
BIOS. BIOS version is the newest I could get: V1003.002. I could not
check for processor stepping, because it is not listed in the DMI.
Still I took some pictures aof the processor prior to assembly of
MB/CPU/heatsink, so if anyone tells me how to translate the numbers
and letters printed there, I could find out.


I called the vendor of the system and was surpirsed about their
not-beeing-surprised by my story. Still they promised that they had no
reports like mine so far. They would provide me with a new board if I
wish, even a different model would be OK. So here's the next question:
which manufacturer and chipset would you advise? How likely is it that
I have bought a lemon and the next ASUS K8V runs smoothly in my
system? Certainly I would prefer to stay with the current mainboard
type because I wouldn't have to re-install windows...

Tilman

Have you tried booting with one of your drives disconnected?
I had a similar problem. My system wouldn't boot with four
hard drives but would with three. I had to replace a cheap 550
what supply.

Jim M

 

[Steve Birch]

(e-mail address removed) (Paul) wrote in message

OK, that was the first thing I thought about, too. I had Memtest86
running oer night without problems. I will try Prime95 now, because
certainly you are right: It sounds like a fundamentl problem!
I don't believe in a problem concerning the 80-conductor-cables,
because (1) thy are new (from the mainboard package) and (2) the
thirdt disc also showed data integrity problems, but runs on the
second cable.
But something else came to my mind: Could the 350W AC-adapter be
related to the problem? I know from tests in the literature that
irrespective of the claimed xxxW the 5V and/or 12V output stability
may still be a problem under certain conditions. To my knowledge this
is a problem that does NOT diminish if you by especially expensive
adapters but it is a general design problem that my occur or not. You
can't control for it.

(snip)

Interesting that you mention the Power Supply.
I first built up my K8V system with a lovely juicy 550W Enermax supply
rescued from a working old system.
I had no end of weird problems at first. The video display was very "wavy"
and the system operation unreliable.
It turned out to be that the power supply voltages very fluctuating,
possibly because there was not enough load on it, or certainly the load was
not balanced in the way the PSU preferred. (Note that newer boards like the
K8V tend to take more power from the +12V supply rail thank older types
because they use it to step-down and make CPU core voltage onboard. I think
that many newer power supplies are better adapted to this).
When I changed my enermax 550W for a newer (quality) 400W supply, my
problems vanished.
Difficult to say if you have got a "lemon". If you read newsgroups you will
always find people cursing any particular brand "X" and saying that "brand
Y" is better. Having got my K8V working properly, I'm very pleased with it
and reading the various reviews it does seem to rate amongst the better
Athlon 64 boards.

- Steve

 

[Tillerman]

Interesting that you mention the Power Supply.

I first built up my K8V system with a lovely juicy 550W Enermax supply
rescued from a working old system.
I had no end of weird problems at first. The video display was very "wavy"
and the system operation unreliable.
It turned out to be that the power supply voltages very fluctuating,
possibly because there was not enough load on it, or certainly the load was
not balanced in the way the PSU preferred. (Note that newer boards like the
K8V tend to take more power from the +12V supply rail thank older types
because they use it to step-down and make CPU core voltage onboard. I think
that many newer power supplies are better adapted to this).
When I changed my enermax 550W for a newer (quality) 400W supply, my
problems vanished.
Difficult to say if you have got a "lemon". If you read newsgroups you will
always find people cursing any particular brand "X" and saying that "brand
Y" is better. Having got my K8V working properly, I'm very pleased with it
and reading the various reviews it does seem to rate amongst the better
Athlon 64 boards.

- Steve

Hum hum. I tried Prime95 and it found "hardware problems".
Interistingly not in the tests with low memory usage, but in the tests
where much harddrive activity and swapping occur - meaning that it
could be rather a HD-controller than a CPU/memory problem after all.
I wll return the complete system to the vendor on Monday. I am out of
ideas how to track down the bad guy in my system, and even if I would,
that would most likely not automatically solce the problem! I am
really sure that the problem is not caused by anything I did to the
computer, so the guys at shop will solve the problem for me free of
charge. I hope. Anyway, I need a functioning computer, so what can I
do!

Thanks for everybodies advices. I will post a note as soon as I am
online again, telling you what it was!