Is FAT32 format gone?

G

Guest

Hi,
I'm trying to use my XP laptop to format a drive with FAT32 so it will be
compatible with an Intel Mac.

But when I right-click the drive and choose 'Format', NTFS is the only
choice there, like a default.

Is there something I'm missing? How can I get it to format with FAT32?

I appreciate any assistance on this,....Frank B.
 
P

Pegasus \(MVP\)

Brightbelt said:
Hi,
I'm trying to use my XP laptop to format a drive with FAT32 so it will be
compatible with an Intel Mac.

But when I right-click the drive and choose 'Format', NTFS is the only
choice there, like a default.

Is there something I'm missing? How can I get it to format with FAT32?

I appreciate any assistance on this,....Frank B.

FAT32 has a limit of 32 GBytes when you use the Windows
partitioning/formatting tool.
 
G

Guest

Pegasus (MVP) said:
FAT32 has a limit of 32 GBytes when you use the Windows
partitioning/formatting tool.

OK Thanks, I was finding this out through searches as you answered me. This
is an external drive - can I create 32 GB partitions and format them that way?

Many Thanks, Frank B.
 
P

philo

OK Thanks, I was finding this out through searches as you answered me. This
is an external drive - can I create 32 GB partitions and format them that way?

Many Thanks, Frank B.


That will work or else you can use 3rd party partitioning software
as XP will recognize fat32 partitions over 32 gigs...(it just can't create
them)
 
H

HEMI-Powered

=?Utf-8?B?QnJpZ2h0YmVsdA==?= added these comments in the current
discussion du jour ...
Hi,
I'm trying to use my XP laptop to format a drive with FAT32
so it will be
compatible with an Intel Mac.

But when I right-click the drive and choose 'Format', NTFS is
the only choice there, like a default.

Is there something I'm missing? How can I get it to format
with FAT32?

I appreciate any assistance on this,....Frank B.

I believe you need a 3rd party utility to format FAT32, e.g.,
Partition Magic or something like it. I don't think it was ever
reasonable for MS to offer a format to what they perceive, rightly,
is an obsolete system, far too limited in capacity for any one
partition and virtually impossible to apply any semblence of
security to. As always, just the opinion of an old fool, YMMV.
 
H

HEMI-Powered

philo added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...
That will work or else you can use 3rd party partitioning
software as XP will recognize fat32 partitions over 32
gigs...(it just can't create them)

There's still a limit on partition size. Please don't hold me to
this number, but it is in the range of 150 gig for any single
partitition.
 
J

Jim

HEMI-Powered said:
=?Utf-8?B?QnJpZ2h0YmVsdA==?= added these comments in the current
discussion du jour ...


I believe you need a 3rd party utility to format FAT32, e.g.,
Partition Magic or something like it. I don't think it was ever
reasonable for MS to offer a format to what they perceive, rightly,
is an obsolete system, far too limited in capacity for any one
partition and virtually impossible to apply any semblence of
security to. As always, just the opinion of an old fool, YMMV.
Here is another one with the same opinion.
Jim
 
P

Paul Randall

I use 300 GB drives, single partition, formated FAT32. No problems. I use
DOS program GDisk.exe which comes with Norton Ghost.

-Paul Randall
 
G

Guest

Jim said:
Here is another one with the same opinion.
Jim

In case anyone follows this thread to this length, what I ended up doing
(after reading some Mac forums as well) was to have Mac format the drive
(using Disk Utility) to MS-Dos. I read that the write rate is a lot faster
for that format than Fat32.

Yes, the 32 GB restriction makes it hard to deal with.

Many Thanks for all your assistance, ...Frank B.
 
M

M.I.5¾

HEMI-Powered said:
philo added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...


There's still a limit on partition size. Please don't hold me to
this number, but it is in the range of 150 gig for any single
partitition.

Well if there is, it's *much* bigger than that. I run a 400GB FAT32
partition with no problem.
 
M

M.I.5¾

HEMI-Powered said:
=?Utf-8?B?QnJpZ2h0YmVsdA==?= added these comments in the current
discussion du jour ...


I believe you need a 3rd party utility to format FAT32, e.g.,
Partition Magic or something like it. I don't think it was ever
reasonable for MS to offer a format to what they perceive, rightly,
is an obsolete system, far too limited in capacity for any one
partition and virtually impossible to apply any semblence of
security to. As always, just the opinion of an old fool, YMMV.

It may be obsolete, but it is very necessary when you format disks that you
require to operate with othersystems that don't speak NTFS. Also there is
still the odd application that for some strange reason won't operate from
NTFS partitions, but is otherwise quite compatible with XP..
 
M

M.I.5¾

Brightbelt said:
In case anyone follows this thread to this length, what I ended up doing
(after reading some Mac forums as well) was to have Mac format the drive
(using Disk Utility) to MS-Dos. I read that the write rate is a lot faster
for that format than Fat32.
There isn't actually a format called MS-DOS. I suspect that the Mac
formatted it to FAT32 or possibly even FAT16 (which is what MS-DOS actually
used).
 
H

HEMI-Powered

Paul Randall added these comments in the current discussion du
jour ...
I use 300 GB drives, single partition, formated FAT32. No
problems. I use DOS program GDisk.exe which comes with Norton
Ghost.

I can't get Partition Magic to go over about 150 gig as I said,
I've tried it on 3 externals. If you got 300, then great! I didn't
think there was enough bit length in 32bits to do that, but I learn
new things every day, Paul.
 
H

HEMI-Powered

M.I.5¾ added these comments in the current discussion du jour
....
It may be obsolete, but it is very necessary when you format
disks that you require to operate with othersystems that don't
speak NTFS. Also there is still the odd application that for
some strange reason won't operate from NTFS partitions, but is
otherwise quite compatible with XP..
I understand legacy app requirements like you say. Please re-read
my comment above where I relate "obsolete" to MS's opinion, which
I believe is correct. There is no point to SP2-style security or
even base XP much of anything on a FAT32 partition that doesn't
support that, but I ran it for years on two extended partitions
anyway because it is almost always faster, in my testing, for
read/write and much faster just getting a folder tree up in
Explorer. NTFS can take a lot of time, for me at least, making up
its mind to display the folder tree. Not sure what it's doing,
but I would guess it is examining the tree and caching certain
attributes.

My nephew who is also a very good friend and my PC builder, runs
a multi-boot PC at his father's machine shop that has 4-6 boot
partitions from Win 95/98, to XP, to 2000, and, of course, his
favorite, Linux. Aside from Linux, the reason he has all the
olderr Windows still multi-booting is that much of his CNC
computers are still not being updated by their manufacturers to
support even XP. Ditto for various kinds of measurement and
machined parts testing computers. Naturally, a legacy O/S is
going to expect FAT32 or even FAT16 if you go back far enough.
 
T

Tim Slattery

HEMI-Powered said:
philo added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...


There's still a limit on partition size. Please don't hold me to
this number, but it is in the range of 150 gig for any single
partitition.

The theoretical limit for a FAT32 partition is 2 terabytes. The
theoretical limit for an NTFS volume is 2**64 allocation units, though
current implementations are limited to 2**32 allocation units, which
is still much larger than any disk you'll find.

Look here:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/windows2000serv/reskit/core/fncc_fil_tvjq.mspx?mfr=true
 
H

HEMI-Powered

Tim Slattery added these comments in the current discussion du
jour ...
The theoretical limit for a FAT32 partition is 2 terabytes.
The theoretical limit for an NTFS volume is 2**64 allocation
units, though current implementations are limited to 2**32
allocation units, which is still much larger than any disk
you'll find.

Look here:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/windows2000serv/re
skit/core/fncc_fil_tvjq.mspx?mfr=true
OK, I stand/sit corrected; I did a quick 2^32 in Excel. So, why
is it that PM won't format over abut 150 gig do you think? Sorry
to be obtuse and stubborn but it has always been my belief and
that of friends more technically knowledgeable than myself that
it isn't as large as you suggest.

And again, if you know me at all, you know that I understand
theory but do not rely on it, being a consumate pragmatist. I far
more believe what is in front of my eyes for ANYTHING than what
the pure math may suggest or a "theoretical" viewpoint on such
things as MTBF for an external HD or an LCD monitor.

I DO take theory into consideration and DID study it in
engineering school along with the practical applications, but if
you're at all familiar with the education engineers get, no
matter what their specialty, the profs rely on the appropriate
schols of mathematics, physics, chemistry, etc. to provide the
theoretical background but they teach and demonstrate how theory
is applied. That is the hallmark of professional engineers who
must be acutely aware of the theoretical foundations for whatever
they are designing or developing, but they must focus more on
design of experiments for testing and validation. My views may
not sit well with lots of folks here, but they have kept me out
of falling for some unusual problems that did plague those who
believe every word anyone may tell them, but without verifying it
for themselves.
 
A

Anna

The theoretical limit for a FAT32 partition is 2 terabytes. The
theoretical limit for an NTFS volume is 2**64 allocation units, though
current implementations are limited to 2**32 allocation units, which
is still much larger than any disk you'll find.


Tim Slattery said:


As Tim has pointed out, for all practical purposes there really is no limit
to partition size re FAT32-formatted partitions. If, for one reason or
another, a user desires to use the FAT32 file system in a WinXP environment,
he or she can do so. As we all know there is that 32 GB limitation involving
*creating* FAT32 partitions from within XP, i.e., through the Disk
Management utility, however these > 32 GB FAT32 partitions can be created
through other means, primarily using the FDISK/FORMAT commands from a DOS
boot disk, e.g., a Win9x/Me "Startup Disk". And then the XP OS will happily
use those > 32 GB FAT32 partitions.

There was (and is) a problem with large-capacity disks, i.e., > 127 GB
binary, when used with a Win9x/Me OS. For one thing problems arise in those
operating systems with using the defragmentation & disk scanning utilities.
We've also run into serious disk corruption errors in general which we
attributed to those large-capacity FAT32-formatted drives. Our general
recommendation to users of those operating systems is to install no HDD >
120 GB.

Like virtually all other commentators, for a variety of reasons, we
ordinarily recommend using the NTFS file system in an XP environment.
However, as one or more posters has commented, we too have run into
situations - primarily involving custom-designed programs specialized for
use in a business - where the program simply refused to work or worked
erratically within an NTFS file system but had no problem when installed in
a FAT32 file system in an XP environment. So in those cases the user had
little or no choice to use the FAT32 file system.
Anna
 
H

HEMI-Powered

Anna added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...
As Tim has pointed out, for all practical purposes there
really is no limit to partition size re FAT32-formatted
partitions. If, for one reason or another, a user desires to
use the FAT32 file system in a WinXP environment, he or she
can do so. As we all know there is that 32 GB limitation
involving *creating* FAT32 partitions from within XP, i.e.,
through the Disk Management utility, however these > 32 GB
FAT32 partitions can be created through other means, primarily
using the FDISK/FORMAT commands from a DOS boot disk, e.g., a
Win9x/Me "Startup Disk". And then the XP OS will happily use
those > 32 GB FAT32 partitions.

There was (and is) a problem with large-capacity disks, i.e.,
problems arise in those operating systems with using the
defragmentation & disk scanning utilities. We've also run into
serious disk corruption errors in general which we attributed
to those large-capacity FAT32-formatted drives. Our general
recommendation to users of those operating systems is to
install no HDD > 120 GB.

I still don't understand, Anna, why I can't get Partition Magic
to format larger than in the 150 gig range. Is it wounded or
defective? As you know, Symantec bought it but never ever updated
it. And, other competitive products seem to have similar
problems, although I cannot personally vouch for any limits on
partition size.

Just for the record, how would I format a FAT32 partition on,
say, a 500 gig external to over 150? I know and understand FDISK
but am very skittish about it because a minor mistep can wipe out
my primary. Yes, I am cautious, some would say overly cautious,
but I've found in my 60 year life that it pays to not lead with
my chin.

Thanks for your comments.
Like virtually all other commentators, for a variety of
reasons, we ordinarily recommend using the NTFS file system in
an XP environment. However, as one or more posters has
commented, we too have run into situations - primarily
involving custom-designed programs specialized for use in a
business - where the program simply refused to work or worked
erratically within an NTFS file system but had no problem when
installed in a FAT32 file system in an XP environment. So in
those cases the user had little or no choice to use the FAT32
file system. Anna
Here, you're talking about my nephew's experience in getting
proprietary SW to run on newer versions of Windows that he wants
for various computer-controlled machine tools or measuring
devices, as well as some versions of smaller CAD or CAM cutter
path SW, or even apps designed to program things like so-called
"programmable controllers" for CNC-anything, robots, and the
like.

Incidently, do you have an opinion on my observation that FAT32
is much faster on read/writes than NTFS as well as far faster to
just bring up a folder tree? For awhile, NTFS on my extended
partitions (I have two) and my external were SO slow, many
minutes to just get a tree, that I reformatted them as FAT32. For
other reasons, primarily the need to store very large Acronis
True Image image files, I was forced to go back to NTFS. It was
as if a miracle had occurred. I've had little trouble since,
although my Maxtor 300 gig with 2 NTFS partitions (I wanted 2 to
separate the data on the drive logically) normally works fine,
there ARE occasions when it'll go away for a minute or two trying
to access one of the partitions in Explorer.

Again, thanks for your observations. Am I correc that you are the
same "Anna" that posted that excellent True Image tutorial some
time back? Very nicely written and quite helpful.
 
A

Anna

"Tim Slattery" <[email protected]> wrote in message
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/windows2000serv/reskit/core/fncc_fil_tvjq.mspx?mfr=true>> -->> Tim Slattery>> MS MVP(DTS)>> (e-mail address removed)>> http://members.cox.net/slatteryt"Anna" <[email protected]> wrote in messageAs Tim has pointed out, for all practical purposes there really is nolimit> to partition size re FAT32-formatted partitions. If, for one reason or> another, a user desires to use the FAT32 file system in a WinXPenvironment,> he or she can do so. As we all know there is that 32 GB limitationinvolving> *creating* FAT32 partitions from within XP, i.e., through the Disk> Management utility, however these > 32 GB FAT32 partitions can be created> through other means, primarily using the FDISK/FORMAT commands from a> DOS boot disk, e.g., a Win9x/Me "Startup Disk". And then the XP OS will> happily use those > 32 GB FAT32 partitions.>> There was (and is) a problem with large-capacity disks, i.e., > 127 GB> binary, when used with a Win9x/Me OS. For one thing problems arise inthose> operating systems with using the defragmentation & disk scanningutilities.> We've also run into serious disk corruption errors in general which we> attributed to those large-capacity FAT32-formatted drives. Our general> recommendation to users of those operating systems is to install no HDD >> 120 GB.>> Like virtually all other commentators, for a variety of reasons, we> ordinarily recommend using the NTFS file system in an XP environment.> However, as one or more posters has commented, we too have run into> situations - primarily involving custom-designed programs specialized for> use in a business - where the program simply refused to work or worked> erratically within an NTFS file system but had no problem when installedin> a FAT32 file system in an XP environment. So in those cases the user had> little or no choice to use the FAT32 file system.> Anna"HEMI-Powered" <[email protected]> wrote in messageI still don't understand, Anna, why I can't get Partition Magic> to format larger than in the 150 gig range. Is it wounded or> defective? As you know, Symantec bought it but never ever updated> it. And, other competitive products seem to have similar> problems, although I cannot personally vouch for any limits on> partition size.>> Just for the record, how would I format a FAT32 partition on,> say, a 500 gig external to over 150? I know and understand FDISK> but am very skittish about it because a minor mistep can wipe out> my primary. Yes, I am cautious, some would say overly cautious,> but I've found in my 60 year life that it pays to not lead with> my chin.>> Thanks for your comments.(SNIP)> Incidently, do you have an opinion on my observation that FAT32> is much faster on read/writes than NTFS as well as far faster to> just bring up a folder tree? For awhile, NTFS on my extended> partitions (I have two) and my external were SO slow, many> minutes to just get a tree, that I reformatted them as FAT32. For> other reasons, primarily the need to store very large Acronis> True Image image files, I was forced to go back to NTFS. It was> as if a miracle had occurred. I've had little trouble since,> although my Maxtor 300 gig with 2 NTFS partitions (I wanted 2 to> separate the data on the drive logically) normally works fine,> there ARE occasions when it'll go away for a minute or two trying> to access one of the partitions in Explorer.>> Again, thanks for your observations. Am I correc that you are the> same "Anna" that posted that excellent True Image tutorial some> time back? Very nicely written and quite helpful.> --> HP, aka JerryJerry:I honestly don't know why you're having trouble using the Partition Magicprogram (I assume you're using the 8.01 version) to create one or more FAT32partitions. It's usually a very "cut & dried" procedure with PM. Although Ihave to admit it's been a very long time since we used that program tocreate large FAT32 partitions. In the event we *do* find it necessary, weinvariably use the FDISK & FORMAT commands from a DOS boot floppy disk or CDto create FAT32 partitions.As to formatting a FAT32 partition on your external 500 GB HDD...I'm assuming it's a USB external HDD, right? If so, you really won't be ableto use the FDISK/FORMAT commands in that situation because of the USBinterface. It will be necessary to install the disk as an *internal* HDD inyour system and then boot to the DOS boot disk to invoke the FDISK/FORMATcommands. Then, of course, reinstall the disk in its USB enclosure.Now, there *is* ostensibly a program that purports to format FAT32partitions > 32 GB from *within* WinXP. It's a Linux-based program - themkdosfs.exe program that you can download in ZIP format fromhttp://www.mager.org/mkdosfs/Basically the process is to create the partition on your USB external HDDusing the Disk Management utility in XP and format the > 32 GB partition inNTFS. Then use the mkdosfs.exe program which will be installed in your XPsystem to format that partition FAT32. We've used this program a number oftimes and for the most part it "worked". But I have to tell you that in acouple of cases we later ran into some data corruption issues which, whilewe couldn't *prove* they were caused by the mkdosfs FAT32-formattingprocess, we were (and continue to be) uneasy about using the program again.So you may first want to experiment with this program by testing it withsome non-critical data. But I would be cautious about using it without anyreservations until you're confident of its effectiveness.In any event, if you are able to uninstall the 500 GB HDD from its USBenclosure and then install it as an internal HDD in your XP system, I wouldgo ahead and use the FDISK/FORMAT commands as indicated above. As youprobably know it's a rather straightforward process and shouldn't cause youany difficulty. Just take your time and understand those commands' optionsas you go through the process.As to your questions re the differences between the FAT32 & NTFS filesystems as to performance (speed of read/writes). I really can't concludethe FAT32 file system is faster in this regard. As I previously stated,unless the user has some special need to use the FAT32 file system becauseof some program/system compatibility issues, we strongly recommend employingthe NTFS file system in an XP environment.And yes, I'm the very same "Anna" and thank you for your nice comment. I'mglad to hear you found those Acronis True Image step-by-step instructionshelpful. I might mention in passing that we've actually been using anotherdisk cloning program since earlier this year and we've been quite impressedwith it. To the point where it's our disk-cloning program of choice and weprefer it over the ATI program. It's the Casper 4.0 program (seehttp://www.fssdev.com)Perhaps you've come across a couple of my postings in which I extolled thevirtues of this program and provided some details as to using it. It'scertainly worth looking into. In this connection you might want to take alook at my post to this newsgroup of August 7 - the subject being "Re: needa good backup method or program".(BTW, I'm leaving for a two-month overseas assignment tomorrow morning andwill not have access to this & other newsgroups during that time. I mentionthis only because I probably won't have an opportunity to respond to anyfurther posts over the next few months.)Anna
 
T

Tim Slattery

OK, I stand/sit corrected; I did a quick 2^32 in Excel. So, why
is it that PM won't format over abut 150 gig do you think?

I think you'd have to ask Symantec that question. We've heard in this
newsgroup from people who have used FAT32 partitions larger than 150GB
(one poster reported a FAT32 partition of 300GB! Not for me, thanks),
so it's certainly possible to do.
 

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