Indexing Bug ????

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

I my opinion the best search that Microsoft EVER HAD was on windows 98...

WinME's search was the last one that I felt I could trust, out of the
box with default settings.

Ever since then, the seach will omit items unless you fiddle with
settings. In XP, it will not include hidden and system files, even if
you've set Explorer to show such things (IOW it doesn't take its cue
from those settings, you have to change settings details for every
search as they aren't persistent either).

Vista's search looks good, but it's useless to me if I cannot trust
the results. I need to know that EVERY occurance of whatever I'm
searching for, has been found. I can't be sure of that in Vista, not
only due to stale indexes, but due to tricky syntax etc.

I generally know where my files are, and what they are called.

When I search, it is usually to make sure there aren't duplicates I
need to be careful of (e.g. "search for all *.PST"), or to manage
..DLLs, or to ensure known malware files really were deleted, or that
hi-risk files are not present within my data set ("search *.exe *.scr
*.com *.cmd *.cpl *.bat *.pif ...etc.")

I hardly ever search on content; it's nearly always filenames,
wildcard filenames, and a series of such wildcards. If something is
trying to hide from me, I particularly want to find it (that's why I'm
searching for it, DUH). I don't want the OS colluding with whatever
it is that may be trying to hide from me.

Is it safe to kill the indexing service, or does the system "need" it?

------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

The most accurate diagnostic instrument
in medicine is the Retrospectoscope

 

[Guest]

This is an extremely dodgy search system. Even folders and file that I
deleted weeks ago show up when I search. This is quite useless to me when I
am searching. I am beginning to think that all the resources that the
indexing uses up is not worth having. It cannot even return accurate search
results.

 

[Guest]

Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I installed
VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files, which is great, but
about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not place some files where they belong
so I moved them, but now when I use the Search, it find those files in both
the old and the new folder. I did checked the old folder where those files
were before and they're not there anymore, they're really into the new
folder where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

So how do we fix it? When I search, I get results for files and folders that
were deleted weeks ago. Not good enough. I may as well turn indexing off. It
is taxing my resources for no gain.

 

[Joe Guidera]

Hmm, it should have automatically adjusted the index. If not, the only way
I know is to tell Vista to rebuild the index.

Joe

 

[Ilia Sacson [MS]]

Dear Martin,

Can you recall the state of the indexer when you moved the files? Was it
idle? If not, was it working on a new location you've added via Control
Panel?

As a workaround, you can try excluding the original file location from the
indexing scope. For example, say you index entire D: drive, and your files
were moved from D:\X to D:\Y. In the control panel, go to Modify..., all
users, and uncheck D:\Y. If it doesn't exist any more - create it first. If
it exists and is unchecked, check it, OK, reopen the dialog and uncheck.

Thanks,
Ilia

Last night the indexing finished, and this mornning I tried the same
search as before and it still find the files in both location

BTW. I just realised when I ran the search this morning that I'm using the
TAG attribute to search those files

THe event viewer's got nothing releated to Indexing or search, execpt
when I did perform searches

Dear Martin,

I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your alter-ego,
please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something is
definitly
not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of it.

1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the event
viewer?
It's in Control Panel -> Administrative tools -> Event Viewer (or you
can
Start->Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under Event Viewer
(Local) -> Windows Logs -> Application. To make the log show Search
events
only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and check
"Search"
under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error events.

2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it creates an
entry
in Control Panel -> Problems and Solutions -> View Problem History. Its
entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host and Search
Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we have a
memory
snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on our server.
Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem Details, and send
me
the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see what's going
on.
Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and minimal
internal
state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it crashed I
won't
be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there should be an
extra
entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe the
problem".
You can email them to me directly.

There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer issues, but
they
are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first.

Thanks,
Ilia

I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was to try
and find a way to fix this

BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I have so far
over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I have Vista
installed since 1 February, and the indexing was never finished yet

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email and
lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it. Unless
your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't matter
either since there's not much to index in a movie or "other
downloads". So, my data corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle
it should take longer to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to
rebuild my index, that should be fairly representative of a move
performance, and in my opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt
out. Open Indexing Options control panel, Modify..., Show all
locations, uncheck everything and click OK, done. Although I can't
imagine my work without being able to search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out
what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the
next version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I
don't see a reason to start a flame war here, if you need one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of
other downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those
changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many
files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows
the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks,
and gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it.
Not turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two
machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in
about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it
took about 15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be
removed from the index then added to index to force the update if
you don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files
from that folder to another folder, but the search still show those
files as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they
no longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to
another he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the
index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the
same system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or
deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be
removed from the index since it will remain in the index but not
in the 'browse' option.
..winston

message Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click Modify >
click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse to the folder in
which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK >
Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I
installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files,
which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not
place some files where they belong so I moved them, but now when
I use the Search, it find those files in both the old and the
new folder. I did checked the old folder where those files were
before and they're not there anymore, they're really into the
new folder where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin











--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[Ilia Sacson [MS]]

Dear Cquirke,

It is very easy to hide from Vista Search, be that index or GREP. It's even
easier to hide from WDS. Not a chance they'll find a real, functional
rootkit. This isn't a bug, it's by design - the indexer isn't a security
feature, it's written to handle very different scenarios. I'd say you are
not using the right tool for the job. There are many specialized rootkit
removal tools, such as
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/Security/RootkitRevealer.mspx,
you are better off using them instead.

Regarding disabling the indexer - Windows it won't crash if you disable it,
but a few things (like search) might behave oddly. Consider using it for its
intended purpose, you might find it quite useful. If you are concerned with
the perf impact - you can always reduce the indexing scope using Indexing
Options in the Control Panel.

Thanks,
Ilia

 

[Martin Racette]

Dear Martin,

Can you recall the state of the indexer when you moved the files? Was it
idle? If not, was it working on a new location you've added via Control
Panel?

It is not nor was it a new location in the Index, the location is on another
HDD than the boot drive, and the state of the Indexing was IDLE

As a workaround, you can try excluding the original file location from the
indexing scope. For example, say you index entire D: drive, and your files
were moved from D:\X to D:\Y. In the control panel, go to Modify..., all
users, and uncheck D:\Y. If it doesn't exist any more - create it first.
If it exists and is unchecked, check it, OK, reopen the dialog and
uncheck.

You're idea is not bad but in this case it would not work very well since I
still use the old location to put some new documents that do belong in that
location

Thanks,
Ilia

Last night the indexing finished, and this mornning I tried the same
search as before and it still find the files in both location

BTW. I just realised when I ran the search this morning that I'm using
the TAG attribute to search those files

THe event viewer's got nothing releated to Indexing or search, execpt
when I did perform searches

Dear Martin,

I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your alter-ego,
please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something is
definitly
not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of it.

1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the event
viewer?
It's in Control Panel -> Administrative tools -> Event Viewer (or you
can
Start->Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under Event Viewer
(Local) -> Windows Logs -> Application. To make the log show Search
events
only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and check
"Search"
under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error events.

2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it creates an
entry
in Control Panel -> Problems and Solutions -> View Problem History. Its
entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host and Search
Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we have a
memory
snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on our server.
Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem Details, and
send me
the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see what's
going on.
Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and minimal
internal
state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it crashed I
won't
be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there should be an
extra
entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe the
problem".
You can email them to me directly.

There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer issues, but
they
are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first.

Thanks,
Ilia

I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was to try
and find a way to fix this

BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I have so
far over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I have Vista
installed since 1 February, and the indexing was never finished yet

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email
and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it.
Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't
matter either since there's not much to index in a movie or "other
downloads". So, my data corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle
it should take longer to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to
rebuild my index, that should be fairly representative of a move
performance, and in my opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt
out. Open Indexing Options control panel, Modify..., Show all
locations, uncheck everything and click OK, done. Although I can't
imagine my work without being able to search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out
what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the
next version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I
don't see a reason to start a flame war here, if you need one that
is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of
other downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those
changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many
files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also
slows the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not
weeks, and gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it.
Not turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two
machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in
about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed,
it took about 15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be
removed from the index then added to index to force the update if
you don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files
from that folder to another folder, but the search still show
those files as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2,
but they no longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to
another he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the
index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the
same system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or
deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be
removed from the index since it will remain in the index but not
in the 'browse' option.
..winston

message Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click Modify >
click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse to the folder in
which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK >
Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I
installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files,
which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not
place some files where they belong so I moved them, but now
when I use the Search, it find those files in both the old and
the new folder. I did checked the old folder where those files
were before and they're not there anymore, they're really into
the new folder where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin











--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[Ilia Sacson [MS]]

I'm sorry, but I'm not certan that I quite follow you. By default we only
index C:\Users. So you've had C:\Users and (say) D:\Data indexed, and the
indexer was idle. Then you moved D:\Data\Wrong\foo.txt to
D:\Data\Right\foo.txt, and now if you search for "foo" you find it in both
locations. Is that correct?

Is it easy to reproduce? If you create a new file in the "wrong" location
now and move it to the "right" one, will you get duplicates?

Also does the problem affect files of all types?

Well, it's not a fix, it's a workaround. It isn't perfect. Once the ghosts
has been removed, you can add the location back again, that will index the
new files.

Thank you for followin up on this,
Ilia

Dear Martin,

Can you recall the state of the indexer when you moved the files? Was it
idle? If not, was it working on a new location you've added via Control
Panel?

It is not nor was it a new location in the Index, the location is on
another HDD than the boot drive, and the state of the Indexing was IDLE

As a workaround, you can try excluding the original file location from
the indexing scope. For example, say you index entire D: drive, and your
files were moved from D:\X to D:\Y. In the control panel, go to
Modify..., all users, and uncheck D:\Y. If it doesn't exist any more -
create it first. If it exists and is unchecked, check it, OK, reopen the
dialog and uncheck.

You're idea is not bad but in this case it would not work very well since
I still use the old location to put some new documents that do belong in
that location

Thanks,
Ilia

Last night the indexing finished, and this mornning I tried the same
search as before and it still find the files in both location

BTW. I just realised when I ran the search this morning that I'm using
the TAG attribute to search those files

THe event viewer's got nothing releated to Indexing or search, execpt
when I did perform searches

Dear Martin,

I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your
alter-ego,
please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something is
definitly
not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of it.

1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the event
viewer?
It's in Control Panel -> Administrative tools -> Event Viewer (or you
can
Start->Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under Event Viewer
(Local) -> Windows Logs -> Application. To make the log show Search
events
only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and check
"Search"
under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error events.

2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it creates an
entry
in Control Panel -> Problems and Solutions -> View Problem History.
Its
entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host and Search
Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we have a
memory
snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on our
server.
Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem Details, and
send me
the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see what's
going on.
Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and minimal
internal
state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it crashed I
won't
be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there should be an
extra
entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe the
problem".
You can email them to me directly.

There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer issues,
but they
are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first.

Thanks,
Ilia

I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was to try
and find a way to fix this

BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I have so
far over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I have Vista
installed since 1 February, and the indexing was never finished yet

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email
and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it.
Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't
matter either since there's not much to index in a movie or "other
downloads". So, my data corpus is bigger than yours, and in
principle it should take longer to finish indexing it. It takes
about 3 days to rebuild my index, that should be fairly
representative of a move performance, and in my opinion it's not too
bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options control panel,
Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything and click OK,
done. Although I can't imagine my work without being able to search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure
out what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for
the next version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great
start. I don't see a reason to start a flame war here, if you need
one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of
other downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those
changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many
files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also
slows the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if
not weeks, and gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it.
Not turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two
machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in
about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed,
it took about 15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be
removed from the index then added to index to force the update if
you don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files
from that folder to another folder, but the search still show
those files as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2,
but they no longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to
another he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the
index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the
same system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or
deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be
removed from the index since it will remain in the index but not
in the 'browse' option.
..winston

message Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click Modify
click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse to the folder
in which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click
OK > Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I
installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents
files, which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I
did not place some files where they belong so I moved them,
but now when I use the Search, it find those files in both the
old and the new folder. I did checked the old folder where
those files were before and they're not there anymore, they're
really into the new folder where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin











--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[Martin Racette]

I'm sorry, but I'm not certan that I quite follow you. By default we only
index C:\Users. So you've had C:\Users and (say) D:\Data indexed, and the
indexer was idle. Then you moved D:\Data\Wrong\foo.txt to
D:\Data\Right\foo.txt, and now if you search for "foo" you find it in both
locations. Is that correct?

Is it easy to reproduce? If you create a new file in the "wrong" location
now and move it to the "right" one, will you get duplicates?

I can replicate it every time that I run a search, and yes it does affect
all file type whether I use tag or filename as a reference

Also does the problem affect files of all types?

Well, it's not a fix, it's a workaround. It isn't perfect. Once the ghosts
has been removed, you can add the location back again, that will index the
new files.

Thank you for followin up on this,
Ilia

Dear Martin,

Can you recall the state of the indexer when you moved the files? Was it
idle? If not, was it working on a new location you've added via Control
Panel?

It is not nor was it a new location in the Index, the location is on
another HDD than the boot drive, and the state of the Indexing was IDLE

As a workaround, you can try excluding the original file location from
the indexing scope. For example, say you index entire D: drive, and your
files were moved from D:\X to D:\Y. In the control panel, go to
Modify..., all users, and uncheck D:\Y. If it doesn't exist any more -
create it first. If it exists and is unchecked, check it, OK, reopen the
dialog and uncheck.

You're idea is not bad but in this case it would not work very well since
I still use the old location to put some new documents that do belong in
that location

Thanks,
Ilia

Last night the indexing finished, and this mornning I tried the same
search as before and it still find the files in both location

BTW. I just realised when I ran the search this morning that I'm using
the TAG attribute to search those files

THe event viewer's got nothing releated to Indexing or search, execpt
when I did perform searches

Dear Martin,

I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your
alter-ego,
please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something is
definitly
not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of it.

1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the event
viewer?
It's in Control Panel -> Administrative tools -> Event Viewer (or you
can
Start->Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under Event
Viewer
(Local) -> Windows Logs -> Application. To make the log show Search
events
only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and check
"Search"
under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error events.

2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it creates
an entry
in Control Panel -> Problems and Solutions -> View Problem History.
Its
entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host and
Search
Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we have a
memory
snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on our
server.
Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem Details, and
send me
the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see what's
going on.
Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and minimal
internal
state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it crashed I
won't
be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there should be an
extra
entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe the
problem".
You can email them to me directly.

There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer issues,
but they
are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first.

Thanks,
Ilia

I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was to
try and find a way to fix this

BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I have so
far over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I have Vista
installed since 1 February, and the indexing was never finished yet

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email
and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it.
Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't
matter either since there's not much to index in a movie or "other
downloads". So, my data corpus is bigger than yours, and in
principle it should take longer to finish indexing it. It takes
about 3 days to rebuild my index, that should be fairly
representative of a move performance, and in my opinion it's not
too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options control
panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything and click
OK, done. Although I can't imagine my work without being able to
search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure
out what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for
the next version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great
start. I don't see a reason to start a flame war here, if you need
one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of
other downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those
changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too
many files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it
also slows the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days
if not weeks, and gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted
it. Not turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on
two machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in
about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed,
it took about 15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can
be removed from the index then added to index to force the update
if you don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files
from that folder to another folder, but the search still show
those files as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2,
but they no longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to
another he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach,
the index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use
the same system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or
deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be
removed from the index since it will remain in the index but
not in the 'browse' option.
..winston

message Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click Modify
click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse to the
folder in which the files were previously located. Uncheck it,
click OK > Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I
installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents
files, which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I
did not place some files where they belong so I moved them,
but now when I use the Search, it find those files in both
the old and the new folder. I did checked the old folder
where those files were before and they're not there anymore,
they're really into the new folder where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin











--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[Ilia Sacson [MS]]

By reproducing I don't mean to find duplicates that exist already, but to
create a new duplicate now - create file, move file, does it duplicate in
search results? Sorry for asking that many questions, but we can't reproduce
this issue, even though it seem to be fairly common in the wild. So I need
every possible detail. I wish I could see your gather log files, but these
contain file names of all the files indexed, that's personal information.
Thanks,
Ilia

I'm sorry, but I'm not certan that I quite follow you. By default we only
index C:\Users. So you've had C:\Users and (say) D:\Data indexed, and the
indexer was idle. Then you moved D:\Data\Wrong\foo.txt to
D:\Data\Right\foo.txt, and now if you search for "foo" you find it in
both locations. Is that correct?

Is it easy to reproduce? If you create a new file in the "wrong" location
now and move it to the "right" one, will you get duplicates?

I can replicate it every time that I run a search, and yes it does affect
all file type whether I use tag or filename as a reference

Also does the problem affect files of all types?

Well, it's not a fix, it's a workaround. It isn't perfect. Once the
ghosts has been removed, you can add the location back again, that will
index the new files.

Thank you for followin up on this,
Ilia

Dear Martin,

Can you recall the state of the indexer when you moved the files? Was
it idle? If not, was it working on a new location you've added via
Control Panel?

It is not nor was it a new location in the Index, the location is on
another HDD than the boot drive, and the state of the Indexing was IDLE


As a workaround, you can try excluding the original file location from
the indexing scope. For example, say you index entire D: drive, and
your files were moved from D:\X to D:\Y. In the control panel, go to
Modify..., all users, and uncheck D:\Y. If it doesn't exist any more -
create it first. If it exists and is unchecked, check it, OK, reopen
the dialog and uncheck.

You're idea is not bad but in this case it would not work very well
since I still use the old location to put some new documents that do
belong in that location

Thanks,
Ilia

Last night the indexing finished, and this mornning I tried the same
search as before and it still find the files in both location

BTW. I just realised when I ran the search this morning that I'm using
the TAG attribute to search those files

THe event viewer's got nothing releated to Indexing or search, execpt
when I did perform searches

Dear Martin,

I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your
alter-ego,
please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something is
definitly
not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of it.

1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the event
viewer?
It's in Control Panel -> Administrative tools -> Event Viewer (or
you can
Start->Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under Event
Viewer
(Local) -> Windows Logs -> Application. To make the log show Search
events
only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and check
"Search"
under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error events.

2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it creates
an entry
in Control Panel -> Problems and Solutions -> View Problem History.
Its
entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host and
Search
Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we have a
memory
snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on our
server.
Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem Details, and
send me
the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see what's
going on.
Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and minimal
internal
state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it crashed I
won't
be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there should be
an extra
entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe the
problem".
You can email them to me directly.

There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer issues,
but they
are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first.

Thanks,
Ilia

I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was to
try and find a way to fix this

BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I have so
far over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I have Vista
installed since 1 February, and the indexing was never finished yet

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email
and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it.
Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't
matter either since there's not much to index in a movie or "other
downloads". So, my data corpus is bigger than yours, and in
principle it should take longer to finish indexing it. It takes
about 3 days to rebuild my index, that should be fairly
representative of a move performance, and in my opinion it's not
too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options control
panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything and click
OK, done. Although I can't imagine my work without being able to
search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure
out what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for
the next version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great
start. I don't see a reason to start a flame war here, if you need
one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of
other downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those
changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too
many files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it
also slows the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for
days if not weeks, and gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted
it. Not turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on
two machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in
about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also
indexed, it took about 15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can
be removed from the index then added to index to force the
update if you don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files
from that folder to another folder, but the search still show
those files as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder
2, but they no longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to
another he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach,
the index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not
use the same system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or
deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be
removed from the index since it will remain in the index but
not in the 'browse' option.
..winston

message Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click
Modify > click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse to
the folder in which the files were previously located.
Uncheck it, click OK > Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after
I installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents
files, which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I
did not place some files where they belong so I moved them,
but now when I use the Search, it find those files in both
the old and the new folder. I did checked the old folder
where those files were before and they're not there anymore,
they're really into the new folder where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin











--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[Martin Racette]

That is exactly what I mean, whenever I move file from folder to another,
and the use the search I find file at both location even if they aren't in
the first location anymore.

No need to be sorry, you just want make sure that we understand what the
problem is exactly

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

By reproducing I don't mean to find duplicates that exist already, but to
create a new duplicate now - create file, move file, does it duplicate in
search results? Sorry for asking that many questions, but we can't
reproduce this issue, even though it seem to be fairly common in the wild.
So I need every possible detail. I wish I could see your gather log files,
but these contain file names of all the files indexed, that's personal
information.
Thanks,
Ilia

I'm sorry, but I'm not certan that I quite follow you. By default we
only index C:\Users. So you've had C:\Users and (say) D:\Data indexed,
and the indexer was idle. Then you moved D:\Data\Wrong\foo.txt to
D:\Data\Right\foo.txt, and now if you search for "foo" you find it in
both locations. Is that correct?

Is it easy to reproduce? If you create a new file in the "wrong"
location now and move it to the "right" one, will you get duplicates?

I can replicate it every time that I run a search, and yes it does affect
all file type whether I use tag or filename as a reference

Also does the problem affect files of all types?

Well, it's not a fix, it's a workaround. It isn't perfect. Once the
ghosts has been removed, you can add the location back again, that will
index the new files.

Thank you for followin up on this,
Ilia


Dear Martin,

Can you recall the state of the indexer when you moved the files? Was
it idle? If not, was it working on a new location you've added via
Control Panel?

It is not nor was it a new location in the Index, the location is on
another HDD than the boot drive, and the state of the Indexing was IDLE


As a workaround, you can try excluding the original file location from
the indexing scope. For example, say you index entire D: drive, and
your files were moved from D:\X to D:\Y. In the control panel, go to
Modify..., all users, and uncheck D:\Y. If it doesn't exist any more -
create it first. If it exists and is unchecked, check it, OK, reopen
the dialog and uncheck.

You're idea is not bad but in this case it would not work very well
since I still use the old location to put some new documents that do
belong in that location

Thanks,
Ilia

Last night the indexing finished, and this mornning I tried the same
search as before and it still find the files in both location

BTW. I just realised when I ran the search this morning that I'm
using the TAG attribute to search those files

THe event viewer's got nothing releated to Indexing or search,
execpt when I did perform searches

Dear Martin,

I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your
alter-ego,
please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something is
definitly
not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of it.

1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the event
viewer?
It's in Control Panel -> Administrative tools -> Event Viewer (or
you can
Start->Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under Event
Viewer
(Local) -> Windows Logs -> Application. To make the log show Search
events
only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and check
"Search"
under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error events.

2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it creates
an entry
in Control Panel -> Problems and Solutions -> View Problem History.
Its
entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host and
Search
Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we have
a memory
snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on our
server.
Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem Details, and
send me
the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see what's
going on.
Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and minimal
internal
state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it crashed
I won't
be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there should be
an extra
entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe the
problem".
You can email them to me directly.

There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer issues,
but they
are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first.

Thanks,
Ilia

I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was to
try and find a way to fix this

BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I have
so far over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I have
Vista installed since 1 February, and the indexing was never
finished yet

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of
email and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing
on it. Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item
sizes don't matter either since there's not much to index in a
movie or "other downloads". So, my data corpus is bigger than
yours, and in principle it should take longer to finish indexing
it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index, that should be
fairly representative of a move performance, and in my opinion
it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options
control panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything
and click OK, done. Although I can't imagine my work without
being able to search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure
out what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it
for the next version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a
great start. I don't see a reason to start a flame war here, if
you need one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands
of other downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those
changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too
many files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it
also slows the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for
days if not weeks, and gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted
it. Not turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on
two machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in
about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also
indexed, it took about 15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can
be removed from the index then added to index to force the
update if you don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some
files from that folder to another folder, but the search still
show those files as being in both location, in folder 1 and
folder 2, but they no longer exist in folder 1 only in folder
2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to
another he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach,
the index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not
use the same system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or
deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be
removed from the index since it will remain in the index but
not in the 'browse' option.
..winston

message Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click
Modify > click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse to
the folder in which the files were previously located.
Uncheck it, click OK > Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after
I installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents
files, which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I
did not place some files where they belong so I moved them,
but now when I use the Search, it find those files in both
the old and the new folder. I did checked the old folder
where those files were before and they're not there
anymore, they're really into the new folder where I want
them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin











--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[Ilia Sacson [MS]]

Dear Cap. Kirk,

It took me a while to get a hold of our legal department, but here's what
they told me - if you post your ideas here in plain text, they are up for
grabs as far as we are concerned. If that's ok with you - go for it. No
pictures, no videos. Not quite what you've had in mind, but better than
nothing I suppose. I, on the other hand, promise that the people who are
responsible for search UI improvment will be made aware of your opinion if I
myself find it interesting. Alternatively, if you think you've got what it
takes - Microsoft is always hiring.

Re industrial design, I'm not qualified to reply. I can only point out that
gal/mile vehicles are greatly demanded by urban commuters, and that of all
the thousands of WinAmp skins I find 2 or 3 usable at the most. Maybe
user-centric design and abundance of opinions is not all it takes to make a
great product. Perhaps conservative "let's get it working first" attitude
still has its place. After all, the way we use the indexer now is v1.

Thanks,
Ilia

There is a problem... the design should not be left to programmers. You
are talking technical, and although I can follow, you are missing all the
point.

The concepts and gui's should be left to people who are trained as
designers like industrial designers, artists, and specialists in human
machine interaction but these people must understand how computers work,
without needing however to know all the details of programming.

Basically a new breed of people are needed that are good at design,
creativity and understand
what a computer can do and how to achieve it. We are talking about
Leonardo da Vinci like people
who have strong right and left brain thinking combined.

Also I believe that much research with teams of people must be done in
models before making the actual interfaces. Only through experimentation
with mock semi-working models can you be sure what works best or not. As
you can see, I am talking about a combination of creativity with the
scientific process. Microsoft has the money and resources do to such
things.

There is lack of design concept and human friendliness in all the changes
in vista. When I say design I dont mean glass borders and filp 3d
effects.. I mean functional design that provides workflow and usability
... with 2 words.. intuative interfaces.

That's my 2 cents. I know you will ignore it, but I had to give you the
correct reply. Now throw it away.

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I'm deeply touched by your concern for Windows users, and I'm always
happy to hear constructive criticism. I very much doubt that trolling on
the forums where users come for help is going to help them though.

You are asking us to consider your position and I can see your point. But
please consider ours as well:
- Customers won't pay for 1998 experience in 2007. You can't keep a
collection of documents in an immaculate order if several people are
working on it, or even if it's just big enough (emails). You can't fit an
arbitrary classification in a hierarchical structure such as a directory
tree, you've gotta have a dynamic view of data. Indexer allows that, file
system doesn't. We don't do it just for fun, there are very compelling
and demanded scenarios that index enables.
- Power comes at a price. If we write a fast indexer it's going to
consume more resources, so everything will be slower, can't have that. If
we write indexer that only runs on demand, it won't be up to date. If we
just stick to GREP like in XP it will be way too slow to enable them
scenarios. We hope to do what will please most users out of the box, but
we can't please everyone, as some goals are mutually exclusive.
- Specifically, we can never please the power users. Even though they are
the ones generating most feedback, they are a but a tiny minority, and
their needs are so special that pleasing them is going to upset pretty
much everyone else. A classic example is searching for system/hidden
files or text in DLLs in System32 - how many users want to see ntkernel
or ini files in their search results? I know I would...
- Even the amount of rope we provide today may be too much. "Let's index
everything! Let's play a 3d game while at it! Why is it taking forever?
Indexer sucks!" - perhaps we haven't hidden Indexing Options deep enough.
It's really sad sometimes. Consider Natural Query Sintax: "email from
Ilia about indexing sent last week" could do exactly what you'd think is
too good to be true to happen. Did you know that? No? Thought so.
- Most users get Vista with new boxes, and these don't come with
800Mhz/512Mb. It's hard enough to provide high end experience even on a
high end hardware. If you dare running it on 800Mhz, well, you better be
patient. Given that retail Athlon 64 x2 3600+ is sold on newegg for $73,
I wouldn't call our requirements an ivory tower.

Like you said, we are writing an OS for the masses, so we have to make
choices that would please the masses, and so do other companies which
solve the same problem. Evidently they are not cutting the mustard for
you, can't say I'm that surprised. But it doesn't mean that the idea is
flawed in principle. I'd like to help you improve your experience, maybe
you'll reconsider. Also, thank you for offering to draw mockups, we can't
accept any such help for legal reasons. Here's another idea for you. It's
fairly trivial to query the index from VB.Net or C# code. Perhaps instead
of mockups you could write your own client for the indexer and post it on
your own website, and show us all how it's done. I'd gladly assit you
You could start here:
http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/default.aspx?ForumGroupID=25&SiteID=1

Best regards,
Ilia

Ilia.. the same problems are being reported all over the internet...
I have seen at least 2 more such incidents discussed in this newsgroup.

I would suggest you start researching...

By the way my indexing took more time than yours.

The problem with Microsoft developers is that they have the latest
hardware
and are detached from the "real world"

On a machine that "supports" vista, a 800 MHz machine what ever it is
with 512 mb
ram the indexing would take weeks.

I am against indexing hard drives. There are too many problems... sorry
I was since I first saw the programs that attempted this...

and I have tried them all expecting to see something that is good...
every time I removed them, disgusted.

Google desktop, copernic, Windows desktop search for XP, and several
others I dont even remember what their names are.
Whatever is out there.. I have tried.

I finally decided to organize my files in a very intelligent manner so
almost no search is needed... EVER.

I my opinion the best search that Microsoft EVER HAD was on windows
98... simple..

the one on vista has the worst GUI I have ever seen. The turn off option
in the control panel is not enough.
You are forgetting that you are making an OS for the masses... having
trained hundreds of people on computer use,
I know that your option is hidden too much to be useful.
XP was an OS that had a simpler GUI for people to understand. Sorry its
true.. in vista by hidding stuff ESPECIALLY the menus
you are creating much confusion.


Sorry to be harsh and critical.. but its better for you to know that pat
yourselves on the back for doing a good job.

I would suggest you guys rethink everything from start.. including the
GUI of the search, and to add some option apparent to on the search gui
interface itself.

I have no other reason to say all this, all I care about is to see
better products from microsoft that will be usefull to everyone.
Its not about me... I know how to do anything I want and avoid the
problems.


I would gladly produce image mock ups of how a better design would be
for the GUI, for free.




Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email and
lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it. Unless
your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't matter
either since there's not much to index in a movie or "other downloads".
So, my data corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle it should
take longer to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my
index, that should be fairly representative of a move performance, and
in my opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing
Options control panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck
everything and click OK, done. Although I can't imagine my work without
being able to search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out
what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the next
version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I don't
see a reason to start a flame war here, if you need one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of
other downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many
files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows
the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks,
and gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it.
Not turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two
machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about
2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took
about 15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be
removed from the index then added to index to force the update if you
don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from
that folder to another folder, but the search still show those files
as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no
longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to
another he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the
index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the
same system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or
deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be
removed from the index since it will remain in the index but not in
the 'browse' option.
..winston

Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click Modify >
click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse to the folder in
which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK >
Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I
installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files,
which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not
place some files where they belong so I moved them, but now when
I use the Search, it find those files in both the old and the new
folder. I did checked the old folder where those files were
before and they're not there anymore, they're really into the new
folder where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[Ilia Sacson [MS]]

One more thing - the from location is on NTFS partition, right? No FAT32?

Could you do the following:
- Open Indexing Options, wait until the indexer is idle.
- Run the following command: logman start "test1" -p
"Microsoft-Windows-Search-Core" -o "test1.etl" -ets
- Move a file from one indexed location to another indexed location.
- Wait until the indexer is idle again.
- Run the following command: logman stop "test1" -ets
- Verify that moving created a duplicate. If it didn't - try again.
- Zip and email me the test1.etl file.

The ETL file will contain the sequence of events inside the indexer.
Hopefully it will allow me to undertand your problem better. Note - it WILL
contain the name of the file you are moving.

Thanks,
Ilia

That is exactly what I mean, whenever I move file from folder to another,
and the use the search I find file at both location even if they aren't in
the first location anymore.

No need to be sorry, you just want make sure that we understand what the
problem is exactly

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

By reproducing I don't mean to find duplicates that exist already, but to
create a new duplicate now - create file, move file, does it duplicate in
search results? Sorry for asking that many questions, but we can't
reproduce this issue, even though it seem to be fairly common in the
wild. So I need every possible detail. I wish I could see your gather log
files, but these contain file names of all the files indexed, that's
personal information.
Thanks,
Ilia

I'm sorry, but I'm not certan that I quite follow you. By default we
only index C:\Users. So you've had C:\Users and (say) D:\Data indexed,
and the indexer was idle. Then you moved D:\Data\Wrong\foo.txt to
D:\Data\Right\foo.txt, and now if you search for "foo" you find it in
both locations. Is that correct?

Is it easy to reproduce? If you create a new file in the "wrong"
location now and move it to the "right" one, will you get duplicates?

I can replicate it every time that I run a search, and yes it does
affect all file type whether I use tag or filename as a reference


Also does the problem affect files of all types?

Well, it's not a fix, it's a workaround. It isn't perfect. Once the
ghosts has been removed, you can add the location back again, that will
index the new files.

Thank you for followin up on this,
Ilia


Dear Martin,

Can you recall the state of the indexer when you moved the files? Was
it idle? If not, was it working on a new location you've added via
Control Panel?

It is not nor was it a new location in the Index, the location is on
another HDD than the boot drive, and the state of the Indexing was
IDLE


As a workaround, you can try excluding the original file location
from the indexing scope. For example, say you index entire D: drive,
and your files were moved from D:\X to D:\Y. In the control panel, go
to Modify..., all users, and uncheck D:\Y. If it doesn't exist any
more - create it first. If it exists and is unchecked, check it, OK,
reopen the dialog and uncheck.

You're idea is not bad but in this case it would not work very well
since I still use the old location to put some new documents that do
belong in that location

Thanks,
Ilia

Last night the indexing finished, and this mornning I tried the same
search as before and it still find the files in both location

BTW. I just realised when I ran the search this morning that I'm
using the TAG attribute to search those files

THe event viewer's got nothing releated to Indexing or search,
execpt when I did perform searches

Dear Martin,

I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your
alter-ego,
please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something is
definitly
not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of it.

1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the
event viewer?
It's in Control Panel -> Administrative tools -> Event Viewer (or
you can
Start->Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under Event
Viewer
(Local) -> Windows Logs -> Application. To make the log show
Search events
only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and
check "Search"
under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error events.

2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it
creates an entry
in Control Panel -> Problems and Solutions -> View Problem
History. Its
entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host and
Search
Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we have
a memory
snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on our
server.
Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem Details,
and send me
the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see what's
going on.
Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and minimal
internal
state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it crashed
I won't
be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there should be
an extra
entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe the
problem".
You can email them to me directly.

There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer
issues, but they
are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first.

Thanks,
Ilia

I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was to
try and find a way to fix this

BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I have
so far over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I have
Vista installed since 1 February, and the indexing was never
finished yet

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of
email and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got
nothing on it. Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff),
item sizes don't matter either since there's not much to index
in a movie or "other downloads". So, my data corpus is bigger
than yours, and in principle it should take longer to finish
indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index, that
should be fairly representative of a move performance, and in my
opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing
Options control panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck
everything and click OK, done. Although I can't imagine my work
without being able to search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to
figure out what Martin run into and if there really is a bug -
fix it for the next version. Knowing if the index is idle would
be a great start. I don't see a reason to start a flame war
here, if you need one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands
of other downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those
changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too
many files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it
also slows the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for
days if not weeks, and gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted
it. Not turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on
two machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated
in about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also
indexed, it took about 15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder
can be removed from the index then added to index to force the
update if you don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some
files from that folder to another folder, but the search
still show those files as being in both location, in folder 1
and folder 2, but they no longer exist in folder 1 only in
folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place
to another he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach,
the index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not
use the same system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved
or deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to
be removed from the index since it will remain in the index
but not in the 'browse' option.
..winston

message Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click
Modify > click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse to
the folder in which the files were previously located.
Uncheck it, click OK > Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I
after I installed VIsta, it started to index all of my
documents files, which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I
found that I did not place some files where they belong so
I moved them, but now when I use the Search, it find those
files in both the old and the new folder. I did checked
the old folder where those files were before and they're
not there anymore, they're really into the new folder
where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin











--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[Martin Racette]

Perfectly well guested, All of my partition are NFTS, since the smallest is
60Gb and the biggest 400Gb

One more thing - the from location is on NTFS partition, right? No FAT32?

Could you do the following:
- Open Indexing Options, wait until the indexer is idle.
- Run the following command: logman start "test1" -p
"Microsoft-Windows-Search-Core" -o "test1.etl" -ets
- Move a file from one indexed location to another indexed location.
- Wait until the indexer is idle again.
- Run the following command: logman stop "test1" -ets
- Verify that moving created a duplicate. If it didn't - try again.
- Zip and email me the test1.etl file.

The ETL file will contain the sequence of events inside the indexer.
Hopefully it will allow me to undertand your problem better. Note - it
WILL contain the name of the file you are moving.

Thanks,
Ilia

That is exactly what I mean, whenever I move file from folder to another,
and the use the search I find file at both location even if they aren't
in the first location anymore.

No need to be sorry, you just want make sure that we understand what the
problem is exactly

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

By reproducing I don't mean to find duplicates that exist already, but
to create a new duplicate now - create file, move file, does it
duplicate in search results? Sorry for asking that many questions, but
we can't reproduce this issue, even though it seem to be fairly common
in the wild. So I need every possible detail. I wish I could see your
gather log files, but these contain file names of all the files indexed,
that's personal information.
Thanks,
Ilia


I'm sorry, but I'm not certan that I quite follow you. By default we
only index C:\Users. So you've had C:\Users and (say) D:\Data indexed,
and the indexer was idle. Then you moved D:\Data\Wrong\foo.txt to
D:\Data\Right\foo.txt, and now if you search for "foo" you find it in
both locations. Is that correct?

Is it easy to reproduce? If you create a new file in the "wrong"
location now and move it to the "right" one, will you get duplicates?

I can replicate it every time that I run a search, and yes it does
affect all file type whether I use tag or filename as a reference


Also does the problem affect files of all types?

Well, it's not a fix, it's a workaround. It isn't perfect. Once the
ghosts has been removed, you can add the location back again, that
will index the new files.

Thank you for followin up on this,
Ilia


Dear Martin,

Can you recall the state of the indexer when you moved the files?
Was it idle? If not, was it working on a new location you've added
via Control Panel?

It is not nor was it a new location in the Index, the location is on
another HDD than the boot drive, and the state of the Indexing was
IDLE


As a workaround, you can try excluding the original file location
from the indexing scope. For example, say you index entire D: drive,
and your files were moved from D:\X to D:\Y. In the control panel,
go to Modify..., all users, and uncheck D:\Y. If it doesn't exist
any more - create it first. If it exists and is unchecked, check it,
OK, reopen the dialog and uncheck.

You're idea is not bad but in this case it would not work very well
since I still use the old location to put some new documents that do
belong in that location

Thanks,
Ilia

Last night the indexing finished, and this mornning I tried the
same search as before and it still find the files in both location

BTW. I just realised when I ran the search this morning that I'm
using the TAG attribute to search those files

THe event viewer's got nothing releated to Indexing or search,
execpt when I did perform searches

Dear Martin,

I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your
alter-ego,
please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something is
definitly
not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of it.

1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the
event viewer?
It's in Control Panel -> Administrative tools -> Event Viewer (or
you can
Start->Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under Event
Viewer
(Local) -> Windows Logs -> Application. To make the log show
Search events
only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and
check "Search"
under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error events.

2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it
creates an entry
in Control Panel -> Problems and Solutions -> View Problem
History. Its
entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host and
Search
Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we
have a memory
snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on our
server.
Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem Details,
and send me
the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see
what's going on.
Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and minimal
internal
state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it
crashed I won't
be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there should
be an extra
entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe
the problem".
You can email them to me directly.

There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer
issues, but they
are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first.

Thanks,
Ilia

I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was
to try and find a way to fix this

BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I have
so far over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I have
Vista installed since 1 February, and the indexing was never
finished yet

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of
email and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got
nothing on it. Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my
stuff), item sizes don't matter either since there's not much
to index in a movie or "other downloads". So, my data corpus is
bigger than yours, and in principle it should take longer to
finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index,
that should be fairly representative of a move performance, and
in my opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open
Indexing Options control panel, Modify..., Show all locations,
uncheck everything and click OK, done. Although I can't imagine
my work without being able to search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to
figure out what Martin run into and if there really is a bug -
fix it for the next version. Knowing if the index is idle would
be a great start. I don't see a reason to start a flame war
here, if you need one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands
of other downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those
changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too
many files and shift them around too much. Not only useless,
it also slows the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash
for days if not weeks, and gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you
wanted it. Not turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue
on two machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated
in about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also
indexed, it took about 15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder
can be removed from the index then added to index to force
the update if you don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some
files from that folder to another folder, but the search
still show those files as being in both location, in folder
1 and folder 2, but they no longer exist in folder 1 only in
folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place
to another he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop
Seach, the index was automatically updated, why would
Microsoft not use the same system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved
or deleted, it must be recreated in the original location
to be removed from the index since it will remain in the
index but not in the 'browse' option.
..winston

message Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click
Modify > click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse
to the folder in which the files were previously located.
Uncheck it, click OK > Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I
after I installed VIsta, it started to index all of my
documents files, which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I
found that I did not place some files where they belong
so I moved them, but now when I use the Search, it find
those files in both the old and the new folder. I did
checked the old folder where those files were before and
they're not there anymore, they're really into the new
folder where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin











--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[Ilia Sacson [MS]]

Can't wait to see the ETL file...

Perfectly well guested, All of my partition are NFTS, since the smallest
is 60Gb and the biggest 400Gb

One more thing - the from location is on NTFS partition, right? No FAT32?

Could you do the following:
- Open Indexing Options, wait until the indexer is idle.
- Run the following command: logman start "test1" -p
"Microsoft-Windows-Search-Core" -o "test1.etl" -ets
- Move a file from one indexed location to another indexed location.
- Wait until the indexer is idle again.
- Run the following command: logman stop "test1" -ets
- Verify that moving created a duplicate. If it didn't - try again.
- Zip and email me the test1.etl file.

The ETL file will contain the sequence of events inside the indexer.
Hopefully it will allow me to undertand your problem better. Note - it
WILL contain the name of the file you are moving.

Thanks,
Ilia

That is exactly what I mean, whenever I move file from folder to
another, and the use the search I find file at both location even if
they aren't in the first location anymore.

No need to be sorry, you just want make sure that we understand what the
problem is exactly

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
By reproducing I don't mean to find duplicates that exist already, but
to create a new duplicate now - create file, move file, does it
duplicate in search results? Sorry for asking that many questions, but
we can't reproduce this issue, even though it seem to be fairly common
in the wild. So I need every possible detail. I wish I could see your
gather log files, but these contain file names of all the files
indexed, that's personal information.
Thanks,
Ilia


I'm sorry, but I'm not certan that I quite follow you. By default we
only index C:\Users. So you've had C:\Users and (say) D:\Data
indexed, and the indexer was idle. Then you moved
D:\Data\Wrong\foo.txt to D:\Data\Right\foo.txt, and now if you search
for "foo" you find it in both locations. Is that correct?

Is it easy to reproduce? If you create a new file in the "wrong"
location now and move it to the "right" one, will you get duplicates?

I can replicate it every time that I run a search, and yes it does
affect all file type whether I use tag or filename as a reference


Also does the problem affect files of all types?

Well, it's not a fix, it's a workaround. It isn't perfect. Once the
ghosts has been removed, you can add the location back again, that
will index the new files.

Thank you for followin up on this,
Ilia


Dear Martin,

Can you recall the state of the indexer when you moved the files?
Was it idle? If not, was it working on a new location you've added
via Control Panel?

It is not nor was it a new location in the Index, the location is on
another HDD than the boot drive, and the state of the Indexing was
IDLE


As a workaround, you can try excluding the original file location
from the indexing scope. For example, say you index entire D:
drive, and your files were moved from D:\X to D:\Y. In the control
panel, go to Modify..., all users, and uncheck D:\Y. If it doesn't
exist any more - create it first. If it exists and is unchecked,
check it, OK, reopen the dialog and uncheck.

You're idea is not bad but in this case it would not work very well
since I still use the old location to put some new documents that do
belong in that location

Thanks,
Ilia

Last night the indexing finished, and this mornning I tried the
same search as before and it still find the files in both location

BTW. I just realised when I ran the search this morning that I'm
using the TAG attribute to search those files

THe event viewer's got nothing releated to Indexing or search,
execpt when I did perform searches

Dear Martin,

I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your
alter-ego,
please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something is
definitly
not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of
it.

1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the
event viewer?
It's in Control Panel -> Administrative tools -> Event Viewer
(or you can
Start->Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under Event
Viewer
(Local) -> Windows Logs -> Application. To make the log show
Search events
only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and
check "Search"
under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error
events.

2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it
creates an entry
in Control Panel -> Problems and Solutions -> View Problem
History. Its
entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host and
Search
Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we
have a memory
snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on our
server.
Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem Details,
and send me
the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see
what's going on.
Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and minimal
internal
state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it
crashed I won't
be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there should
be an extra
entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe
the problem".
You can email them to me directly.

There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer
issues, but they
are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first.

Thanks,
Ilia

I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was
to try and find a way to fix this

BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I
have so far over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I
have Vista installed since 1 February, and the indexing was
never finished yet

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of
email and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got
nothing on it. Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my
stuff), item sizes don't matter either since there's not much
to index in a movie or "other downloads". So, my data corpus
is bigger than yours, and in principle it should take longer
to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my
index, that should be fairly representative of a move
performance, and in my opinion it's not too bad. And yes you
can opt out. Open Indexing Options control panel, Modify...,
Show all locations, uncheck everything and click OK, done.
Although I can't imagine my work without being able to search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to
figure out what Martin run into and if there really is a bug -
fix it for the next version. Knowing if the index is idle
would be a great start. I don't see a reason to start a flame
war here, if you need one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and
thousands of other downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those
changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have
too many files and shift them around too much. Not only
useless, it also slows the computer down, makes the hard
drive thrash for days if not weeks, and gives you erroneous
results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you
wanted it. Not turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue
on two machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated
in about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also
indexed, it took about 15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder
can be removed from the index then added to index to force
the update if you don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some
files from that folder to another folder, but the search
still show those files as being in both location, in folder
1 and folder 2, but they no longer exist in folder 1 only
in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place
to another he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop
Seach, the index was automatically updated, why would
Microsoft not use the same system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved
or deleted, it must be recreated in the original location
to be removed from the index since it will remain in the
index but not in the 'browse' option.
..winston

in message Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click
Modify > click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse
to the folder in which the files were previously located.
Uncheck it, click OK > Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I
after I installed VIsta, it started to index all of my
documents files, which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I
found that I did not place some files where they belong
so I moved them, but now when I use the Search, it find
those files in both the old and the new folder. I did
checked the old folder where those files were before and
they're not there anymore, they're really into the new
folder where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin











--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[Martin Racette]

I might not work, because, when I read that most probably the only
work-around would be to re-construct the Index, I did it 2 days ago, and now
I can no longer replicate the problem

Can't wait to see the ETL file...

Perfectly well guested, All of my partition are NFTS, since the smallest
is 60Gb and the biggest 400Gb

One more thing - the from location is on NTFS partition, right? No
FAT32?

Could you do the following:
- Open Indexing Options, wait until the indexer is idle.
- Run the following command: logman start "test1" -p
"Microsoft-Windows-Search-Core" -o "test1.etl" -ets
- Move a file from one indexed location to another indexed location.
- Wait until the indexer is idle again.
- Run the following command: logman stop "test1" -ets
- Verify that moving created a duplicate. If it didn't - try again.
- Zip and email me the test1.etl file.

The ETL file will contain the sequence of events inside the indexer.
Hopefully it will allow me to undertand your problem better. Note - it
WILL contain the name of the file you are moving.

Thanks,
Ilia

That is exactly what I mean, whenever I move file from folder to
another, and the use the search I find file at both location even if
they aren't in the first location anymore.

No need to be sorry, you just want make sure that we understand what
the problem is exactly

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
By reproducing I don't mean to find duplicates that exist already, but
to create a new duplicate now - create file, move file, does it
duplicate in search results? Sorry for asking that many questions, but
we can't reproduce this issue, even though it seem to be fairly common
in the wild. So I need every possible detail. I wish I could see your
gather log files, but these contain file names of all the files
indexed, that's personal information.
Thanks,
Ilia


I'm sorry, but I'm not certan that I quite follow you. By default we
only index C:\Users. So you've had C:\Users and (say) D:\Data
indexed, and the indexer was idle. Then you moved
D:\Data\Wrong\foo.txt to D:\Data\Right\foo.txt, and now if you
search for "foo" you find it in both locations. Is that correct?

Is it easy to reproduce? If you create a new file in the "wrong"
location now and move it to the "right" one, will you get
duplicates?

I can replicate it every time that I run a search, and yes it does
affect all file type whether I use tag or filename as a reference


Also does the problem affect files of all types?

Well, it's not a fix, it's a workaround. It isn't perfect. Once the
ghosts has been removed, you can add the location back again, that
will index the new files.

Thank you for followin up on this,
Ilia


Dear Martin,

Can you recall the state of the indexer when you moved the files?
Was it idle? If not, was it working on a new location you've added
via Control Panel?

It is not nor was it a new location in the Index, the location is
on another HDD than the boot drive, and the state of the Indexing
was IDLE


As a workaround, you can try excluding the original file location
from the indexing scope. For example, say you index entire D:
drive, and your files were moved from D:\X to D:\Y. In the control
panel, go to Modify..., all users, and uncheck D:\Y. If it doesn't
exist any more - create it first. If it exists and is unchecked,
check it, OK, reopen the dialog and uncheck.

You're idea is not bad but in this case it would not work very well
since I still use the old location to put some new documents that
do belong in that location

Thanks,
Ilia

Last night the indexing finished, and this mornning I tried the
same search as before and it still find the files in both
location

BTW. I just realised when I ran the search this morning that I'm
using the TAG attribute to search those files

THe event viewer's got nothing releated to Indexing or search,
execpt when I did perform searches

Dear Martin,

I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your
alter-ego,
please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something
is definitly
not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of
it.

1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the
event viewer?
It's in Control Panel -> Administrative tools -> Event Viewer
(or you can
Start->Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under Event
Viewer
(Local) -> Windows Logs -> Application. To make the log show
Search events
only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and
check "Search"
under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error
events.

2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it
creates an entry
in Control Panel -> Problems and Solutions -> View Problem
History. Its
entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host and
Search
Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we
have a memory
snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on our
server.
Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem Details,
and send me
the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see
what's going on.
Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and
minimal internal
state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it
crashed I won't
be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there should
be an extra
entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe
the problem".
You can email them to me directly.

There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer
issues, but they
are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first.

Thanks,
Ilia

I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was
to try and find a way to fix this

BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I
have so far over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on.
I have Vista installed since 1 February, and the indexing was
never finished yet

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of
email and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got
nothing on it. Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my
stuff), item sizes don't matter either since there's not much
to index in a movie or "other downloads". So, my data corpus
is bigger than yours, and in principle it should take longer
to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my
index, that should be fairly representative of a move
performance, and in my opinion it's not too bad. And yes you
can opt out. Open Indexing Options control panel, Modify...,
Show all locations, uncheck everything and click OK, done.
Although I can't imagine my work without being able to
search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to
figure out what Martin run into and if there really is a
bug - fix it for the next version. Knowing if the index is
idle would be a great start. I don't see a reason to start a
flame war here, if you need one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and
thousands of other downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all
those changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have
too many files and shift them around too much. Not only
useless, it also slows the computer down, makes the hard
drive thrash for days if not weeks, and gives you erroneous
results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you
wanted it. Not turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue
on two machines...the information was provided as an
option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it
updated in about 2 minutes. On the other with other
partitions also indexed, it took about 15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder
can be removed from the index then added to index to force
the update if you don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some
files from that folder to another folder, but the search
still show those files as being in both location, in
folder 1 and folder 2, but they no longer exist in folder
1 only in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one
place to another he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop
Seach, the index was automatically updated, why would
Microsoft not use the same system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later
moved or deleted, it must be recreated in the original
location to be removed from the index since it will
remain in the index but not in the 'browse' option.
..winston

in message Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click
Modify > click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse
to the folder in which the files were previously
located. Uncheck it, click OK > Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
message
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I
after I installed VIsta, it started to index all of my
documents files, which is great, but about 2 weeks ago
I found that I did not place some files where they
belong so I moved them, but now when I use the Search,
it find those files in both the old and the new folder.
I did checked the old folder where those files were
before and they're not there anymore, they're really
into the new folder where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin











--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

Dear Cquirke,
Hi!

It is very easy to hide from Vista Search, be that index or GREP. It's even
easier to hide from WDS. Not a chance they'll find a real, functional
rootkit. This isn't a bug, it's by design - the indexer isn't a security
feature, it's written to handle very different scenarios.

Every part of the UI is a "security" (or rather, safety) feature,
because this feeds the user the info on which decisions are made.

GIGO - i.e. a spoofable UI is a malware exploit waiting to happen.
And because it's "by design", it can stay "unpatched" for years, and
support an entire platform of malware... like the years of MS Office
macro and VBS malware that was quite capable of wiping data etc.

I'm not expecting Search to find anything as tricky as an actively
self-protecting rootkit - but if I can see it, then it should find it.
For example, if I set the shell to show all system and hidden files,
then I expect my "eyeball proxy" (search) to be able to "see" these
files as well. This is simply in keeping with Search as a
labour-saving device, i.e. a way to avoid having to eyeball all
locations that are to be searched.

I'd say you are not using the right tool for the job. There are many
specialized rootkit removal tools, such as
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/Security/RootkitRevealer.mspx,
you are better off using them instead.

I'm not looking for rootkits; just files. For example, I may want to
find every occurance of GDIPlus.dll or MFC42.DLL, etc. If I was
looking for a rootkit by known file name, I'd be doing it from outside
the OS (i.e. Bart CDR boot, WinPE, whatever). Rootkits are just
roadkill if they aren't actively running ;-)

Regarding disabling the indexer - Windows it won't crash if you disable it,
but a few things (like search) might behave oddly. Consider using it for its
intended purpose, you might find it quite useful. If you are concerned with
the perf impact - you can always reduce the indexing scope using Indexing
Options in the Control Panel.

What I'm really after, is a predictable Search that can be trusted to
find things. I don't mind if it takes a while; what I don't want is
something that lies to me about what is or is not present.

-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

Trsut me, I won't make a mistake!

 

[Ilia Sacson [MS]]

DUH!!! Well, if anyone else runs into that - you now know what to do
Thanks Martin.
Ilia

I might not work, because, when I read that most probably the only
work-around would be to re-construct the Index, I did it 2 days ago, and
now I can no longer replicate the problem

Can't wait to see the ETL file...

Perfectly well guested, All of my partition are NFTS, since the smallest
is 60Gb and the biggest 400Gb

One more thing - the from location is on NTFS partition, right? No
FAT32?

Could you do the following:
- Open Indexing Options, wait until the indexer is idle.
- Run the following command: logman start "test1" -p
"Microsoft-Windows-Search-Core" -o "test1.etl" -ets
- Move a file from one indexed location to another indexed location.
- Wait until the indexer is idle again.
- Run the following command: logman stop "test1" -ets
- Verify that moving created a duplicate. If it didn't - try again.
- Zip and email me the test1.etl file.

The ETL file will contain the sequence of events inside the indexer.
Hopefully it will allow me to undertand your problem better. Note - it
WILL contain the name of the file you are moving.

Thanks,
Ilia

That is exactly what I mean, whenever I move file from folder to
another, and the use the search I find file at both location even if
they aren't in the first location anymore.

No need to be sorry, you just want make sure that we understand what
the problem is exactly

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
By reproducing I don't mean to find duplicates that exist already,
but to create a new duplicate now - create file, move file, does it
duplicate in search results? Sorry for asking that many questions,
but we can't reproduce this issue, even though it seem to be fairly
common in the wild. So I need every possible detail. I wish I could
see your gather log files, but these contain file names of all the
files indexed, that's personal information.
Thanks,
Ilia


I'm sorry, but I'm not certan that I quite follow you. By default
we only index C:\Users. So you've had C:\Users and (say) D:\Data
indexed, and the indexer was idle. Then you moved
D:\Data\Wrong\foo.txt to D:\Data\Right\foo.txt, and now if you
search for "foo" you find it in both locations. Is that correct?

Is it easy to reproduce? If you create a new file in the "wrong"
location now and move it to the "right" one, will you get
duplicates?

I can replicate it every time that I run a search, and yes it does
affect all file type whether I use tag or filename as a reference


Also does the problem affect files of all types?

Well, it's not a fix, it's a workaround. It isn't perfect. Once the
ghosts has been removed, you can add the location back again, that
will index the new files.

Thank you for followin up on this,
Ilia


Dear Martin,

Can you recall the state of the indexer when you moved the files?
Was it idle? If not, was it working on a new location you've
added via Control Panel?

It is not nor was it a new location in the Index, the location is
on another HDD than the boot drive, and the state of the Indexing
was IDLE


As a workaround, you can try excluding the original file location
from the indexing scope. For example, say you index entire D:
drive, and your files were moved from D:\X to D:\Y. In the
control panel, go to Modify..., all users, and uncheck D:\Y. If
it doesn't exist any more - create it first. If it exists and is
unchecked, check it, OK, reopen the dialog and uncheck.

You're idea is not bad but in this case it would not work very
well since I still use the old location to put some new documents
that do belong in that location

Thanks,
Ilia

Last night the indexing finished, and this mornning I tried the
same search as before and it still find the files in both
location

BTW. I just realised when I ran the search this morning that I'm
using the TAG attribute to search those files

THe event viewer's got nothing releated to Indexing or search,
execpt when I did perform searches

Dear Martin,

I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your
alter-ego,
please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something
is definitly
not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of
it.

1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the
event viewer?
It's in Control Panel -> Administrative tools -> Event Viewer
(or you can
Start->Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under
Event Viewer
(Local) -> Windows Logs -> Application. To make the log show
Search events
only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and
check "Search"
under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error
events.

2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it
creates an entry
in Control Panel -> Problems and Solutions -> View Problem
History. Its
entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host
and Search
Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we
have a memory
snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on
our server.
Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem
Details, and send me
the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see
what's going on.
Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and
minimal internal
state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it
crashed I won't
be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there
should be an extra
entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe
the problem".
You can email them to me directly.

There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer
issues, but they
are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first.

Thanks,
Ilia

I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do
was to try and find a way to fix this

BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I
have so far over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on.
I have Vista installed since 1 February, and the indexing was
never finished yet

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of
email and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got
nothing on it. Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my
stuff), item sizes don't matter either since there's not
much to index in a movie or "other downloads". So, my data
corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle it should take
longer to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to
rebuild my index, that should be fairly representative of a
move performance, and in my opinion it's not too bad. And
yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options control panel,
Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything and click
OK, done. Although I can't imagine my work without being
able to search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to
figure out what Martin run into and if there really is a
bug - fix it for the next version. Knowing if the index is
idle would be a great start. I don't see a reason to start a
flame war here, if you need one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and
thousands of other downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all
those changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have
too many files and shift them around too much. Not only
useless, it also slows the computer down, makes the hard
drive thrash for days if not weeks, and gives you erroneous
results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you
wanted it. Not turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your
issue on two machines...the information was provided as an
option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it
updated in about 2 minutes. On the other with other
partitions also indexed, it took about 15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the
folder can be removed from the index then added to index
to force the update if you don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some
files from that folder to another folder, but the search
still show those files as being in both location, in
folder 1 and folder 2, but they no longer exist in folder
1 only in folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one
place to another he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop
Seach, the index was automatically updated, why would
Microsoft not use the same system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later
moved or deleted, it must be recreated in the original
location to be removed from the index since it will
remain in the index but not in the 'browse' option.
..winston

in message Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click
Modify > click Show All Locations > expand C: and
browse to the folder in which the files were previously
located. Uncheck it, click OK > Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
message
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I
after I installed VIsta, it started to index all of my
documents files, which is great, but about 2 weeks ago
I found that I did not place some files where they
belong so I moved them, but now when I use the Search,
it find those files in both the old and the new
folder. I did checked the old folder where those files
were before and they're not there anymore, they're
really into the new folder where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin











--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin


--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin




--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[Guest]

I am having the same problem also with my emails. The search results report
the same email twice. And the funny thing is that the index sees the email
twice IN THE SAME FOLDER. If you go to this folder from outlook you see only
one email. I urgently need a work around to this problem. Can I install in
vista the WDS 2.6 for XP, which did a perfect job?

Regards,
Christos

One more thing - the from location is on NTFS partition, right? No FAT32?

Could you do the following:
- Open Indexing Options, wait until the indexer is idle.
- Run the following command: logman start "test1" -p
"Microsoft-Windows-Search-Core" -o "test1.etl" -ets
- Move a file from one indexed location to another indexed location.
- Wait until the indexer is idle again.
- Run the following command: logman stop "test1" -ets
- Verify that moving created a duplicate. If it didn't - try again.
- Zip and email me the test1.etl file.

The ETL file will contain the sequence of events inside the indexer.
Hopefully it will allow me to undertand your problem better. Note - it WILL
contain the name of the file you are moving.

Thanks,
Ilia

That is exactly what I mean, whenever I move file from folder to another,
and the use the search I find file at both location even if they aren't in
the first location anymore.

No need to be sorry, you just want make sure that we understand what the
problem is exactly

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

By reproducing I don't mean to find duplicates that exist already, but to
create a new duplicate now - create file, move file, does it duplicate in
search results? Sorry for asking that many questions, but we can't
reproduce this issue, even though it seem to be fairly common in the
wild. So I need every possible detail. I wish I could see your gather log
files, but these contain file names of all the files indexed, that's
personal information.
Thanks,
Ilia


I'm sorry, but I'm not certan that I quite follow you. By default we
only index C:\Users. So you've had C:\Users and (say) D:\Data indexed,
and the indexer was idle. Then you moved D:\Data\Wrong\foo.txt to
D:\Data\Right\foo.txt, and now if you search for "foo" you find it in
both locations. Is that correct?

Is it easy to reproduce? If you create a new file in the "wrong"
location now and move it to the "right" one, will you get duplicates?

I can replicate it every time that I run a search, and yes it does
affect all file type whether I use tag or filename as a reference


Also does the problem affect files of all types?

Well, it's not a fix, it's a workaround. It isn't perfect. Once the
ghosts has been removed, you can add the location back again, that will
index the new files.

Thank you for followin up on this,
Ilia


Dear Martin,

Can you recall the state of the indexer when you moved the files? Was
it idle? If not, was it working on a new location you've added via
Control Panel?

It is not nor was it a new location in the Index, the location is on
another HDD than the boot drive, and the state of the Indexing was
IDLE


As a workaround, you can try excluding the original file location
from the indexing scope. For example, say you index entire D: drive,
and your files were moved from D:\X to D:\Y. In the control panel, go
to Modify..., all users, and uncheck D:\Y. If it doesn't exist any
more - create it first. If it exists and is unchecked, check it, OK,
reopen the dialog and uncheck.

You're idea is not bad but in this case it would not work very well
since I still use the old location to put some new documents that do
belong in that location

Thanks,
Ilia

Last night the indexing finished, and this mornning I tried the same
search as before and it still find the files in both location

BTW. I just realised when I ran the search this morning that I'm
using the TAG attribute to search those files

THe event viewer's got nothing releated to Indexing or search,
execpt when I did perform searches

Dear Martin,

I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your
alter-ego,
please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something is
definitly
not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of it.

1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the
event viewer?
It's in Control Panel -> Administrative tools -> Event Viewer (or
you can
Start->Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under Event
Viewer
(Local) -> Windows Logs -> Application. To make the log show
Search events
only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and
check "Search"
under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error events.

2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it
creates an entry
in Control Panel -> Problems and Solutions -> View Problem
History. Its
entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host and
Search
Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we have
a memory
snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on our
server.
Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem Details,
and send me
the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see what's
going on.
Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and minimal
internal
state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it crashed
I won't
be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there should be
an extra
entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe the
problem".
You can email them to me directly.

There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer
issues, but they
are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first.

Thanks,
Ilia

I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was to
try and find a way to fix this

BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I have
so far over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I have
Vista installed since 1 February, and the indexing was never
finished yet

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of
email and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got
nothing on it. Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff),
item sizes don't matter either since there's not much to index
in a movie or "other downloads". So, my data corpus is bigger
than yours, and in principle it should take longer to finish
indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index, that
should be fairly representative of a move performance, and in my
opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing
Options control panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck
everything and click OK, done. Although I can't imagine my work
without being able to search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to
figure out what Martin run into and if there really is a bug -
fix it for the next version. Knowing if the index is idle would
be a great start. I don't see a reason to start a flame war
here, if you need one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands
of other downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those
changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too
many files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it
also slows the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for
days if not weeks, and gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted
it. Not turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on
two machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated
in about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also
indexed, it took about 15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder
can be removed from the index then added to index to force the
update if you don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some
files from that folder to another folder, but the search
still show those files as being in both location, in folder 1
and folder 2, but they no longer exist in folder 1 only in
folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one place
to another he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach,
the index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not
use the same system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later moved
or deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to
be removed from the index since it will remain in the index
but not in the 'browse' option.
..winston

message Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click
Modify > click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse to
the folder in which the files were previously located.
Uncheck it, click OK > Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I
after I installed VIsta, it started to index all of my
documents files, which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I
found that I did not place some files where they belong so
I moved them, but now when I use the Search, it find those
files in both the old and the new folder. I did checked
the old folder where those files were before and they're
not there anymore, they're really into the new folder
where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin

 

[Ilia Sacson [MS]]

2.6 won't work on Vista, sorry. Does it create a new duplicate for each
message you receive? If it doesn't you can work around this issue by
unchecking/OK/checking Outlook in Indexing Options -> Modify... dialog. It
will reindex the emails and get rid of duplicates, faster than rebuilding
everything.
Ilia

I am having the same problem also with my emails. The search results report
the same email twice. And the funny thing is that the index sees the email
twice IN THE SAME FOLDER. If you go to this folder from outlook you see
only
one email. I urgently need a work around to this problem. Can I install in
vista the WDS 2.6 for XP, which did a perfect job?

Regards,
Christos

One more thing - the from location is on NTFS partition, right? No FAT32?

Could you do the following:
- Open Indexing Options, wait until the indexer is idle.
- Run the following command: logman start "test1" -p
"Microsoft-Windows-Search-Core" -o "test1.etl" -ets
- Move a file from one indexed location to another indexed location.
- Wait until the indexer is idle again.
- Run the following command: logman stop "test1" -ets
- Verify that moving created a duplicate. If it didn't - try again.
- Zip and email me the test1.etl file.

The ETL file will contain the sequence of events inside the indexer.
Hopefully it will allow me to undertand your problem better. Note - it
WILL
contain the name of the file you are moving.

Thanks,
Ilia

That is exactly what I mean, whenever I move file from folder to
another,
and the use the search I find file at both location even if they aren't
in
the first location anymore.

No need to be sorry, you just want make sure that we understand what
the
problem is exactly

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
By reproducing I don't mean to find duplicates that exist already, but
to
create a new duplicate now - create file, move file, does it duplicate
in
search results? Sorry for asking that many questions, but we can't
reproduce this issue, even though it seem to be fairly common in the
wild. So I need every possible detail. I wish I could see your gather
log
files, but these contain file names of all the files indexed, that's
personal information.
Thanks,
Ilia


I'm sorry, but I'm not certan that I quite follow you. By default we
only index C:\Users. So you've had C:\Users and (say) D:\Data
indexed,
and the indexer was idle. Then you moved D:\Data\Wrong\foo.txt to
D:\Data\Right\foo.txt, and now if you search for "foo" you find it
in
both locations. Is that correct?

Is it easy to reproduce? If you create a new file in the "wrong"
location now and move it to the "right" one, will you get
duplicates?

I can replicate it every time that I run a search, and yes it does
affect all file type whether I use tag or filename as a reference


Also does the problem affect files of all types?

Well, it's not a fix, it's a workaround. It isn't perfect. Once the
ghosts has been removed, you can add the location back again, that
will
index the new files.

Thank you for followin up on this,
Ilia


Dear Martin,

Can you recall the state of the indexer when you moved the files?
Was
it idle? If not, was it working on a new location you've added via
Control Panel?

It is not nor was it a new location in the Index, the location is
on
another HDD than the boot drive, and the state of the Indexing was
IDLE


As a workaround, you can try excluding the original file location
from the indexing scope. For example, say you index entire D:
drive,
and your files were moved from D:\X to D:\Y. In the control panel,
go
to Modify..., all users, and uncheck D:\Y. If it doesn't exist any
more - create it first. If it exists and is unchecked, check it,
OK,
reopen the dialog and uncheck.

You're idea is not bad but in this case it would not work very well
since I still use the old location to put some new documents that
do
belong in that location

Thanks,
Ilia

Last night the indexing finished, and this mornning I tried the
same
search as before and it still find the files in both location

BTW. I just realised when I ran the search this morning that I'm
using the TAG attribute to search those files

THe event viewer's got nothing releated to Indexing or search,
execpt when I did perform searches

Dear Martin,

I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your
alter-ego,
please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something
is
definitly
not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of
it.

1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the
event viewer?
It's in Control Panel -> Administrative tools -> Event Viewer
(or
you can
Start->Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under Event
Viewer
(Local) -> Windows Logs -> Application. To make the log show
Search events
only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and
check "Search"
under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error
events.

2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it
creates an entry
in Control Panel -> Problems and Solutions -> View Problem
History. Its
entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host and
Search
Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we
have
a memory
snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on our
server.
Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem Details,
and send me
the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see
what's
going on.
Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and
minimal
internal
state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it
crashed
I won't
be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there should
be
an extra
entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe
the
problem".
You can email them to me directly.

There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer
issues, but they
are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first.

Thanks,
Ilia

I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was
to
try and find a way to fix this

BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I
have
so far over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I
have
Vista installed since 1 February, and the indexing was never
finished yet

Dear Cap. Kirk,

I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of
email and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got
nothing on it. Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my
stuff),
item sizes don't matter either since there's not much to
index
in a movie or "other downloads". So, my data corpus is bigger
than yours, and in principle it should take longer to finish
indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index, that
should be fairly representative of a move performance, and in
my
opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open
Indexing
Options control panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck
everything and click OK, done. Although I can't imagine my
work
without being able to search.

There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to
figure out what Martin run into and if there really is a
bug -
fix it for the next version. Knowing if the index is idle
would
be a great start. I don't see a reason to start a flame war
here, if you need one that is.

Best regards,
Ilia

I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and
thousands
of other downloads and other files.

Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all
those
changes?

I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have
too
many files and shift them around too much. Not only useless,
it
also slows the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash
for
days if not weeks, and gives you erroneous results!

Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you
wanted
it. Not turned on be default
with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.


The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue
on
two machines...the information was provided as an option.
One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it
updated
in about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also
indexed, it took about 15 minutes.
If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder
can be removed from the index then added to index to force
the
update if you don't wish to wait.

..winston

But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some
files from that folder to another folder, but the search
still show those files as being in both location, in
folder 1
and folder 2, but they no longer exist in folder 1 only in
folder 2.

So everytime that someone what to move files from one
place
to another he MUST rebuild the entire index ????

Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop
Seach,
the index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft
not
use the same system in Vista

--
-----
Thank you in advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin
To add..
If the folder is added to the search index and later
moved
or deleted, it must be recreated in the original location
to
be removed from the index since it will remain in the
index
but not in the 'browse' option.
..winston

in
message Give this a try:
Click Start > type Indexing Options > hit Enter > click
Modify > click Show All Locations > expand C: and browse
to
the folder in which the files were previously located.
Uncheck it, click OK > Close.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry
message
Hi,

I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I
after I installed VIsta, it started to index all of my
documents files, which is great, but about 2 weeks ago
I
found that I did not place some files where they belong
so
I moved them, but now when I use the Search, it find
those
files in both the old and the new folder. I did checked
the old folder where those files were before and
they're
not there anymore, they're really into the new folder
where I want them.

How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index

--
Thank You in Advance
Merci a l'avance

Martin