I'm not happy.

R

RajKohli

I am really unhappy with Microsoft's MVP selection procedure. I debated on
the same topic two times before but never get a satisfactory reply. Some says
that the current MVPs choose the next one and some says that I am not using
the crappy Web Interface instead of Outlook Express and that is why I am not
getting noticed. Both of reasons are really annoying to me.

1. If the current MVPs can choose the next one then who choosen them?
2. If OE is preferable then why don't Microsoft shut down this site.

Read my previous post before commenting.

Waiting for everyone's response.

Thanks and Regards.
 
L

Leythos

I am really unhappy with Microsoft's MVP selection procedure. I debated on
the same topic two times before but never get a satisfactory reply. Some says
that the current MVPs choose the next one and some says that I am not using
the crappy Web Interface instead of Outlook Express and that is why I am not
getting noticed. Both of reasons are really annoying to me.

1. If the current MVPs can choose the next one then who choosen them?
2. If OE is preferable then why don't Microsoft shut down this site.

Read my previous post before commenting.

I use a Proper Usenet client, more than 10 years old, and it's connected
to a Usenet Service Provider, not MS, not a web interface.

You should consider using Usenet and a real Usenet client, it works fine
and you are not ignored.

There are MANY people, not just MS, that will ignore posts from web
interfaces, from Google Groups interface, that they have no help for,
etc...

The most common reason for ignoring a post is that the user didn't post
a proper question or give enough information to help.
 
T

Tom [Pepper] Willett

What makes you think MVPs select MVPs? What makes you think you are
qualified?


--
Tom [Pepper] Willett
Microsoft MVP
---------------------------
: The question is about MVP selection procedure not about any posting
problem
: with Web Interface. Please read my previous post regarding MVP selection
: issue.
:
:
http://groups.google.co.in/group/mi...read/252fb3095e7e5e3d?hl=en&q=author:RajKohli
:
: Thanks!
:
:
:
: "Leythos" wrote:
:
: > In article <[email protected]>,
: > (e-mail address removed) says...
: > > I am really unhappy with Microsoft's MVP selection procedure. I
debated on
: > > the same topic two times before but never get a satisfactory reply.
Some says
: > > that the current MVPs choose the next one and some says that I am not
using
: > > the crappy Web Interface instead of Outlook Express and that is why I
am not
: > > getting noticed. Both of reasons are really annoying to me.
: > >
: > > 1. If the current MVPs can choose the next one then who choosen them?
: > > 2. If OE is preferable then why don't Microsoft shut down this site.
: > >
: > > Read my previous post before commenting.
: >
: > I use a Proper Usenet client, more than 10 years old, and it's connected
: > to a Usenet Service Provider, not MS, not a web interface.
: >
: > You should consider using Usenet and a real Usenet client, it works fine
: > and you are not ignored.
: >
: > There are MANY people, not just MS, that will ignore posts from web
: > interfaces, from Google Groups interface, that they have no help for,
: > etc...
: >
: > The most common reason for ignoring a post is that the user didn't post
: > a proper question or give enough information to help.
: >
: > --
: > - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
: > - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
: > drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
: > (e-mail address removed) (remove 999 for proper email address)
: >
 
B

Bob I

Humm, from what I see, you last posted a bit in June of last year a bit
(7-8 months ago) and then a gap going back to March before that. So what
is it exactly you are complaining about? You "demand" to be made an MVP?
If that is the only reason you posted, you are posting for the wrong
reasons. The MVP is only a side effect, the real benefit you get is the
knowledge you gain from solving the problem for someone and the thank
you they post back with.
 
A

Antioch

RajKohli said:
I am really unhappy with Microsoft's MVP selection procedure. I debated on
the same topic two times before but never get a satisfactory reply. Some
says
that the current MVPs choose the next one and some says that I am not
using
the crappy Web Interface instead of Outlook Express and that is why I am
not
getting noticed. Both of reasons are really annoying to me.

1. If the current MVPs can choose the next one then who choosen them?
2. If OE is preferable then why don't Microsoft shut down this site.

Read my previous post before commenting.

Waiting for everyone's response.

Thanks and Regards.

Hi Raj

I have been around these groups for about 6 years now - not as a helper but
as a learner, and to get help. I try and keep up with just four groups. I
have learned more in these groups than any computer magazine I have read
over the same period.
I did start with the discussion group, but got completely fed up with it.

I can say that I have never ever seen your name in a post - sorry.

So stay with that crappy web interface discussion group - perhaps you could
teach the other users not to duplicate their posts.

I can think of four names worthy of MVP - all are way ahead of you at the
moment.
But it would appear just to me, that you are perhaps more interested in
getting 'brownie points' than helping for the sake of helping.

Ditch that bloody scorecard and use usenet - I might even spot you. If I
do, I will make a point of saying so :)

Rgds
Antioch
 
L

Leythos

The question is about MVP selection procedure not about any posting problem
with Web Interface. Please read my previous post regarding MVP selection
issue.

The you don't deserve to be an MVP for talking about two completely
different things in a POST you made.

I can't see any reason for you to be an MVP, certainly never seen you
and I've been on Usenet since 84.

If you're using OE or Web interface then, as a MVP you would already
know to use something more reliable, at least if you had any real
technical experience.

Why do you care about being an MVP?
 
K

Kelly

1. If the current MVPs can choose the next one then who choosen them?
2. If OE is preferable then why don't Microsoft shut down this site.

1. Another MVP
2. Use a news-reader not a web-writer.

CDO - It's how MS web servers send mail. It's built into XP Pro but not very
useful for an end user. If you press F3 while previewing (repeat
previewing not viewing) a message you'll see the headers include what
email/newsreader made it. If it comes from a MS web server or an
automated system on a MS server it will say CDO. Collabrative Data
Objects.

Using an NNTP Newsreader
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/guide/nntpnews.mspx

For a better way to access these newsgroups look here:
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/using/newsgroups/setup.asp
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;[ln];newswhelp

--

All the Best,
Kelly (MS-MVP/DTS&XP)

Taskbar Repair Tool Plus!
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/taskbarplus!.htm
 
N

Noel Paton

MVP's (as an ex-MVP, I know) are chosen on the basis of what MS (and MS
only) consider as their contribution to the user network at large - be this
either by responding to Usenet/forum posts such as this, or by creating
useful websites, or by generally helping people out (even being a 'geek' on
the radio, in one case that I recall) - -the exact criteria in any year are
totally unexplained by MS to anyone - least of all to those selected as
MVP's.
MVP's do get nomination rights - which means that anyone that they suggest
gets noticed by MS - but it's MS that makes ANY decision, based on their
criteria for that year.

As far as Web Fora/Usenet posting is concerned, for most MVP's it's a matter
of whether the post itself:-
1) Is understandable in general
and
2) gives enough detail to enable a reasonable response, either to ask
intelligent questions of the OP or to give an informed response

if neither of the above, then MVP's will tend to ignore it until such time
as there is enough info available to give some reasonable response. They
have many thousand other people they could be helping quickly and easily,
rather than teasing the necessary information out of a minimally-literate
poster.
I know a number of MVP's who actually post using the CDO (web forum),
rather than Usenet - and they have my heartfelt sympathy for persisting with
such a buggy interface for whatever reason they do so<g>.
Personally, and I know that the same is/was true of other past/present
MVP's, being an MVP is/was very much a secondary thing to the feeling that
one is/was helping others who were in need of assistance.
MVP's receive NO monetary benefit for what they do - any benefits they do
get are 'in-kind', and at the sole discretion of Microsoft. ALL of the
current holders of the award, have, I'm sure, earned their laurels with the
sweat of their brow, and many broken fingernails and braincells.

There are a few denizens of Usenet who feel that MVP's are MS
lackeys/shills - this is NOT the case.... I can remember times when MVP's
and MS employees have literally had shouting matches over issues ( and
others can remember times when the MVP concerned actually won the point!).

While the MVP system is not perfect (and I doubt - hope?? - even MS would
claim that it was) it's what is there, and those awarded deserve our
respect (and already have mine - I KNOW how difficult it is to keep a civil
finger on the keyboard!) for simply being there when we need them.

OE is dead - that's it.
Windows Mail is being killed off in W7.
MS sees the way ahead as being totally outsourced, in terms of
data-availability. If you can't have a 24/7 connection then they're not
really interested in you - and it's too late to complain now (MVP's have
been fighting this particular fight since 2000 and before to my certain
knowledge, and they've lost - unless there's a concerted effort by the
actual users of Usenet access to kick MS up the proverbial backside and get
them to acknowledge that newsgroup access is IMPORTANT , and EASY - even for
relative novices.

</rant>

--
Noel Paton (MVP 2002-2006)
(CrashFixPC)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.crashfixpc.co.uk
 
R

Ray Luca

Noel Paton said:
There are a few denizens of Usenet who feel that MVP's are MS
lackeys/shills - this is NOT the case.... .

You are most certainly forgetting about Carey Frisch.
 
R

Ron Badour

1. The way to be noticed for the MVP program is to provide a significant
amount of advice on MS products on a regular basis that is helpful and
respectful to the person needing help. Avoid flames and profanity. It is
OK to be critical of MS on select occasions but you cannot continually bash
the company and expect to be selected as an MVP. There are other ways to be
noticed but posting in the MS newsgroups is probably the easiest.

2. MVPs can nominate to MS a person who meets the criteria in #1 but MS MVP
program managers are the sole selection authority.

3. It doesn't matter what you post or read with. When I was first selected
for MVP in 1997, I didn't even use a MS product for the newsgroups. I have
never used the web page interface because OE is simply much easier to use.

--
Regards

Ron Badour
MS MVP
Windows Desktop Experience
 
R

RajKohli

Thank to all of you for your replies.

First, I think none of you have read my previous post "Am I missing
something I & II" before replying to me. If you may have then you may have
not critisize me that why I am asking this question again?

Secondly, all of you are talking about the crappy Web Interface & Outlook
Express. How useless they are and I should use UseNet. I will not get noticed
if I don't follow the UseNet etc. May I ask you a question? On the one hand
you say that I shouldn't ask this question and on the another all of you are
using UseNet to be notice. Wow! If the web-interface is a crappy then why
shouldn't MS shut it down. I mean, does it really matters that how I reply
(replying not helping, as all of you are saying) to someone's post? and what
all of you were thinking about DOS when there was no Windows?

Third, all of you are thinking that I am not helping people because I
questioned about the MVP process. How strange it is? Many of you have already
decided that the any person who will be ask this question is not capable of
becoming an MVP. Then why there is a huge list of FAQs about MVP selection
process and Why Microsoft invented this certification?

Fourth, From MVP FAQS: "Outstanding technical community members are
nominated by their peers, Microsoft employees, and MVPs". I understand that
Peers and Microsoft employees can nominate someone but "...and MVPs". Whats
that means? I think that the current MVPs shouldn't have any right to choose
the next one. They should vote as a peer but not as a MVP. I seems like that
I am in heaven and their is no EGO word.


Last but not least, why you call a Doctor a Doctor? He help peoples to
recover from decease and ask for big bucks but he is still like a god to us.
Why? He provide his services in favor of something.

I don't think anyone in this world is doing something for nothing. Question
yourself that why you are here, replying to my post? In our entire life, we
does those things, which we are interested in, otherwise we get bored. Each
one of us has our own philosphy for everything.

I asked this question because I my heart and brain was thinking of it. Don't
all of you think that I may already knew that I will be critisize for this
question. But I still ask because I am not like those peoples who think
something, says something and do something else.

And mind you that there could be some reasons that why I was not here for a
long time. How could a greedy person can forget about reward? This is why I
was always here! Maybe the next time when I was replying to someone's post,
what I will thinking? Why I am doing this? I should or I shouldn't? If I will
then what the other will think that why he is doing this?

Anyway, I agree only with one thing that one should be selected for his
hard-work not by others personal emotions and explanations.


Once again thank to all of you for your replies.
 
R

RajKohli

Thank to all of you for your replies.

First, I think none of you have read my previous post "Am I missing
something I & II" before replying to me. If you may have then you may have
not critisize me that why I am asking this question again?

Secondly, all of you are talking about the crappy Web Interface & Outlook
Express. How useless they are and I should use UseNet. I will not get noticed
if I don't follow the UseNet etc. May I ask you a question? On the one hand
you say that I shouldn't ask this question and on the another all of you are
using UseNet to be notice. Wow! If the web-interface is a crappy then why
shouldn't MS shut it down. I mean, does it really matters that how I reply
(replying not helping, as all of you are saying) to someone's post? and what
all of you were thinking about DOS when there was no Windows?

Third, all of you are thinking that I am not helping people because I
questioned about the MVP process. How strange it is? Many of you have already
decided that the any person who will be ask this question is not capable of
becoming an MVP. Then why there is a huge list of FAQs about MVP selection
process and Why Microsoft invented this certification?

Fourth, From MVP FAQS: "Outstanding technical community members are
nominated by their peers, Microsoft employees, and MVPs". I understand that
Peers and Microsoft employees can nominate someone but "...and MVPs". Whats
that means? I think that the current MVPs shouldn't have any right to choose
the next one. They should vote as a peer but not as a MVP. I seems like that
I am in heaven and their is no EGO word.


Last but not least, why you call a Doctor a Doctor? He help peoples to
recover from decease and ask for big bucks but he is still like a god to us.
Why? He provide his services in favor of something.

I don't think anyone in this world is doing something for nothing. Question
yourself that why you are here, replying to my post? In our entire life, we
does those things, which we are interested in, otherwise we get bored. Each
one of us has our own philosphy for everything.

I asked this question because I my heart and brain was thinking of it. Don't
all of you think that I may already knew that I will be critisize for this
question. But I still ask because I am not like those peoples who think
something, says something and do something else.

And mind you that there could be some reasons that why I was not here for a
long time. How could a greedy person can forget about reward? This is why I
was always here! Maybe the next time when I was replying to someone's post,
what I will thinking? Why I am doing this? I should or I shouldn't? If I will
then what the other will think that why he is doing this?

Anyway, I agree only with one thing that one should be selected for his
hard-work not by others personal emotions and explanations.


Once again thank to all of you for your replies.
 
N

Noel Paton

Let me take your points one at a time....
RajKohli said:
Thank to all of you for your replies.
You're welcome
First, I think none of you have read my previous post "Am I missing
something I & II" before replying to me. If you may have then you may have
not critisize me that why I am asking this question again?
What previous posts? when??
Going to Google.....
looks like just under 2000 refrences in groups for you - compare with my own
references...
25,600 - and that's with a 2-year 'sabbatical' from which I've just
returned.
Your 'previous' post to this thread appears to have been in July last
year... that doesn't exactly show consistency?
Current MVP's *cannot* 'choose' MVP's - all they can do is nominate them to
MS, who make the decisions. (and incidentally, any member of the public can
nominate people also - even themselves!)
OE is preferable to users who spend many hours a weeks - or per day! -
responding to posts. The CDO may be preferable for asking one or two
questions per month.
Secondly, all of you are talking about the crappy Web Interface & Outlook
Express. How useless they are and I should use UseNet. I will not get
noticed
if I don't follow the UseNet etc. May I ask you a question? On the one
hand
you say that I shouldn't ask this question and on the another all of you
are
using UseNet to be notice. Wow! If the web-interface is a crappy then why
shouldn't MS shut it down. I mean, does it really matters that how I reply
(replying not helping, as all of you are saying) to someone's post? and
what
all of you were thinking about DOS when there was no Windows?

'Noticed'? MS notices everyone on their newsgroups - they do a routine
survey of newsgroup usage using Netscan
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/groups/scg/#projects
and other tools
It appears to me that you are not 'asking this question' - merely airing a
gripe that you appear not toi have been considered for an award.
Third, all of you are thinking that I am not helping people because I
questioned about the MVP process. How strange it is? Many of you have
already
decided that the any person who will be ask this question is not capable
of
becoming an MVP. Then why there is a huge list of FAQs about MVP selection
process and Why Microsoft invented this certification?
Again - it appears that your last post in the newsgroups was in July last
year..... MVP's must show consistency iun their behviour, and in their
responsiveness.
If you read the FAQ's then you'll already know that the award is
numbers-limited, so only the most consistent of people are awarded
Fourth, From MVP FAQS: "Outstanding technical community members are
nominated by their peers, Microsoft employees, and MVPs". I understand
that
Peers and Microsoft employees can nominate someone but "...and MVPs".
Whats
that means? I think that the current MVPs shouldn't have any right to
choose
the next one. They should vote as a peer but not as a MVP. I seems like
that
I am in heaven and their is no EGO word.
DO you understand what 'peers' means?, note the lack of capitalisation! - it
means 'the other people on the internet, and in the real world' NOT 'lords
and masters'. Everybody in the world is eligible to nominate someone to be
an MVP, but ONLY MS make the decision (again, note, NOT a vote!) to give the
award to anyone (anyone at all!).
Last but not least, why you call a Doctor a Doctor? He help peoples to
recover from decease and ask for big bucks but he is still like a god to
us.
Why? He provide his services in favor of something.

Primarily, a 'good doctor' does it because he has a vocation to do so (in
some ways similar to a priestly vocation!) - the monetary considerations are
a way of rationing the service he provides, or of enabling him to provide
similar services for free/less to deserving cases.
I don't think anyone in this world is doing something for nothing.
Question
yourself that why you are here, replying to my post? In our entire life,
we
does those things, which we are interested in, otherwise we get bored.
Each
one of us has our own philosphy for everything.
Nobody does anything for nothing - the 'true' MVP does what they do for the
love of doing it, not for any potential 'reward' from MS. I know of a
nuimber of MVP's who'd never heard of the system prior to being awarded (and
also of a number of people who turned down the aaward for their own
reasons).
I asked this question because I my heart and brain was thinking of it.
Don't
all of you think that I may already knew that I will be critisize for this
question. But I still ask because I am not like those peoples who think
something, says something and do something else.


And mind you that there could be some reasons that why I was not here for
a
long time.
an MVP who is absent for a long period loses the award. an MVP is
re-aawarded based on merit every year - it's not a lifetime award!

How could a greedy person can forget about reward? This is why I
was always here!
Always??? please define! your posts in the Google archive (assuming they're
all yours) run from 1st Dec 2006 to July last year (apart from this current
thread). That makes 2000 posts in 20 months - 100 a month average. I can
remember times when I was averaging well over 100 a week, and occasionally
hitting 100 a day.

Maybe the next time when I was replying to someone's post,
what I will thinking? Why I am doing this? I should or I shouldn't? If I
will
then what the other will think that why he is doing this?
The only thing you should be thinking when answering a post is "how do I
help the questioner" - if you're thinking of anything else, then you're not
giving it your best.
Anyway, I agree only with one thing that one should be selected for his
hard-work not by others personal emotions and explanations.
...and that is what MS tries to do, generally
Once again thank to all of you for your replies.
you're welcome - again

--
Noel Paton (MVP 2002-2006)
(CrashFixPC)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.crashfixpc.co.uk
 
L

Leythos

I don't think anyone in this world is doing something for nothing.

That's why your not an MVP. Almost all of us are doing this for nothing,
well, not really, we're doing it because we've learned and been helped
by interactions on Usenet and believe in giving back to the community,
without "something" in return - other than the good feeling it gives us
to help the community that helped us.
 
A

Antioch

Why have you posted the same reply twice - could this have some connection
to the fact that you are still using that cranky web interface, having been
given sound advice not to.

Antioch
 
T

Tim Slattery

RajKohli said:
I am really unhappy with Microsoft's MVP selection procedure. I debated on
the same topic two times before but never get a satisfactory reply. Some says
that the current MVPs choose the next one

Definitely not. MS makes the decisions. Current MVPs make
recommendations sometimes, but that's all they are. It's Microsoft's
ball game, they call all the shots.
and some says that I am not using
the crappy Web Interface instead of Outlook Express and that is why I am not
getting noticed. Both of reasons are really annoying to me.

Very unlikely. Regardless of how much many of like the newsgroups and
hate the web interface, MS seems determined to promote the "forums",
so using them would not count against you.
 
X

xfile

That's why your not an MVP. Almost all of us are doing this for nothing,
well, not really, we're doing it because we've learned and been helped
by interactions on Usenet and believe in giving back to the community,
without "something" in return - other than the good feeling it gives us
to help the community that helped us.

You meant to say that you didn't get any *monetary* rewards, but other than
that, even feeling good among other forms of psychological return is
*something* motivated people to *help*.

Besides, these newsgroups and MVP program will help the company to promote
products and generate long-term sales by resolving user issues, though this
is an legitimate and well-planned approach, but please don't portrait
yourself or any MVPs as Mother Teresa.
 

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