IE 6 Stalls Under Windows Me - HELP

[Bob Stock]

I have Windows Me.

I just upgraded from IE 5.50 to IE 6 because I thought it would cure a
lot of script errors I was getting. Unfortunately, although those
errors have disappeared, the problems with IE 6 are worse. I surf a
few pages, and then it stalls, won't open anything. I close it, and
then it works, and then it stalls. This continues like this. It's
horribly frustrating. I read somewhere on the web that IE 6 works
much better with XP because it was designed for it and has problems
with Me and earlier OSes.

I also have problems with some websites all the time, e.g.,
www.worldsavings.com, it won't download all the items on the page.
Just stops downloading.

Here are two overall questions:

1. Anything I can do to fix it and stick with IE 6?

2. If I want to go back to IE 5.50, what's the best way to do
that? Install 5.5 over 6? Uninstall 6 first? If I uninstall 6, how
do I do that? MS gives all these options, none of which seem to be
good -- like restoring the previous configuration (sounds best). (I
did try "repairing"; that didn't help. I also tried repairing in Safe
mode. Didn't help. Someone in another group said run Ad-Aware. It
runs relatively clean -- found one Alexa thing, which I removed.)

Someone said that using the "restore the previous Windows
configuration" will put me back to some previous version of Windows
Me, the OS, rather than IE -- and will be awful. That makes no sense.

None of these problems occurred in IE 5.50.

Any ideas are welcome. I'm very frustrated by all this.

Thanks.

Bob

 

[oops!!]

Bob,

First rule out spyware, adware and similar intruders:

Download Ad-Aware from here:
http://lavasoft.element5.com/support/download/
Install, UPDATE and run.
You may need to reboot and run again to clean all the nasties that cannot be deleted at once ("in use").

Also excellent is SpyBot Search & Destroy available here:
http://www.safer-networking.org/index.php?page=download
Install, UPDATE and run.
You may need to reboot and run again to clean all the nasties that cannot be deleted at once ("in use").
You should also apply the "immunize" function, since it blocks roughly 1700 known 'bad' runs/apis/apps.

Even if Ad-Aware and SpyBot S&D are similar, they do clean different things. You should have both of them and use REGULARLY.

You can also install "preventive" software that will help you control these nasties:

SpywareBlaster:
http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/spywareblaster.html
Avoids malicious Active X installs.
Advantage: no system resources used!!!
Just download, install and UPDATE.

All of them extremely useful but you must keep them UPDATED.

Zee

 

[Bob Stock]

I have both Ad-Aware and Spy Bot. I use both regularly. Neither
reports anything unusual. I had no problems with loading websites
before the IE upgrade.

(Everyone wants to blame these things, don't know why.)

Bob,

First rule out spyware, adware and similar intruders:

Download Ad-Aware from here:
http://lavasoft.element5.com/support/download/
Install, UPDATE and run.
You may need to reboot and run again to clean all the nasties that cannot be deleted at once ("in use").

Also excellent is SpyBot Search & Destroy available here:
http://www.safer-networking.org/index.php?page=download
Install, UPDATE and run.
You may need to reboot and run again to clean all the nasties that cannot be deleted at once ("in use").
You should also apply the "immunize" function, since it blocks roughly 1700 known 'bad' runs/apis/apps.

Even if Ad-Aware and SpyBot S&D are similar, they do clean different things. You should have both of them and use REGULARLY.

You can also install "preventive" software that will help you control these nasties:

SpywareBlaster:
http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/spywareblaster.html
Avoids malicious Active X installs.
Advantage: no system resources used!!!
Just download, install and UPDATE.

All of them extremely useful but you must keep them UPDATED.

Zee

Bob

 

[oops!!]

Bob,

You have just upgraded...

Have you visited Windows Update for all the patches, etc. etc.?

I run IE6SP1 fully updated in Win98 and ME with NO problems at all.

Zee

 

[Bob Stock]

I looked at Windows Update. There was one patch for IE 6, a small
one. I installed it. Didn't help. Still have the same problem. I
also tried deleting all temp internet files and offline content.
Didn't help.

The patterns are interesting. For example, www.worldsavings.com will
never work properly, even at the beginning. It partially loads and
then hangs, always at the same point (23 items remaining). Other
sites, particularly ones which you have to log into, will work for a
few screens and then hang. You can't do anything else within that
site, but you can go to SOME other sites, but not all. Consistently,
I can go to many sites, but, strangely, if I try to go to Google, an
innocuous site, it won't open.

I hate to have to go back to 5.50, but unless someone can come up with
a solution, I will simply have to. I can't tolerate it this way. Too
awful.

Thanks for your help, though, I appreciate it.

Bob,

You have just upgraded...

Have you visited Windows Update for all the patches, etc. etc.?

I run IE6SP1 fully updated in Win98 and ME with NO problems at all.

Zee

Bob

 

[oops!!]

Bob,

Sorry I wasn't able to do better.

Good luck,

Zee

 

[Robert Aldwinckle]

I looked at Windows Update. There was one patch for IE 6, a small
one. I installed it. Didn't help. Still have the same problem. I
also tried deleting all temp internet files and offline content.
Didn't help.

The patterns are interesting. For example, www.worldsavings.com will
never work properly, even at the beginning. It partially loads and
then hangs, always at the same point (23 items remaining).

This could be a problem with Cookies. The Privacy Report shows
that many of the images have a Cookie associated with them.
To test this idea you could delete any Cookies associated with the site,
then turn on prompting for Cookies, then revisit the site, allowing the prompts
when they come up. This may also allow you to see more clearly
which particular component is being loaded when rendering reaches
the state where you normally see the hang.

BTW what happens if you press Esc (Stop) at that point. IE can continue
loading the remaining items, depending on how they are requested.
(E.g. if it is due to scripting or in different frames.) In that case you would
just see a Red-X instead of whatever was being loaded.


HTH

Robert Aldwinckle
---

 

[Bob Stock]

This could be a problem with Cookies. The Privacy Report shows
that many of the images have a Cookie associated with them.
To test this idea you could delete any Cookies associated with the site,
then turn on prompting for Cookies, then revisit the site, allowing the prompts
when they come up. This may also allow you to see more clearly
which particular component is being loaded when rendering reaches
the state where you normally see the hang.

Three cookies come up before I see any rendering at all. I accept all
of them, and then you get to the same point.

BTW what happens if you press Esc (Stop) at that point. IE can continue
loading the remaining items, depending on how they are requested.
(E.g. if it is due to scripting or in different frames.) In that case you would
just see a Red-X instead of whatever was being loaded.

As far as I can tell, hitting Esc doesn't do anything different than
if I click on Stop. It stops and says Done at the bottom.

Bob

 

[Bob Stock]

Here's an update on my situation. It's no better than it was.

I did the following steps:

1. I backed out the only separately removable Q patch. No better

2. I backed out all the way to IE 5.50 (with all my previous 5.50
patches). Alarmingly, all the problems I had with 6 were still there,
with the addition of not being able to run Windows Update. IE would
simply collapse with those messages from MS asking you if you wanted
to send them information. Happened every time.

3. I installed 5.50 over itself. This had the effect of putting
me back to 5.50 SP2 with no patches. Same as 5.50 with patches,
meaning the same problems I had with 6 and not able to run Windows
Update. I got increasingly upset.

4. I reinstalled 6.0. It put me back where I'd been before I
started today, meaning I have all these "new" 6.0 problems but CAN run
Windows Update.

(The only other thing I noticed was that during the 6.0 upgrade, it
said that there were two files that were newer than the install
programs. First, I said keep the newer ones. Then, I tried for the
hell of it to install the older ones. Didn't matter. Same problems.

I can't think of anything more to do to get back to being able to
browse successfully except restore my computer back to a week ago (a
fairly large undertaking) or to stop using IE and get another browser.
I'm tempted to get another browser just because I'm so pissed at MS
for this mess.

I guess I don't expect anyone to have any suggestions, but if you do,
feel free to post them.

Thanks for listening.

Bob

 

[Nanny]

I've been doing all those things too over the past 10 days, and yesterday I
finally was so fed up with it all that I installed Firefox

Nanny

 

[Robert Aldwinckle]

The patterns are interesting. For example, www.worldsavings.com will
never work properly, even at the beginning. It partially loads and
then hangs, always at the same point (23 items remaining). Other
sites, particularly ones which you have to log into, will work for a
few screens and then hang. You can't do anything else within that
site, but you can go to SOME other sites, but not all. Consistently,
I can go to many sites, but, strangely, if I try to go to Google, an
innocuous site, it won't open.

I was able to reproduce your symptom I think by toggling on Prompts
also for Scripting. That was yesterday. Today the site seems to be
performing much better (perhaps even differently, e.g. fewer prompts).
So perhaps they have done something to it.

Do you have any other sites causing you problems? If so looking at them
might uncover some common factor. Try using that technique of using
prompts to break down the rendering of the page into describable chunks.
It also helps to do it with the IE window in Fullscreen mode (e.g. press F11)
in order to maximize the length of the URL being shown in the Status bar.

Another simple diagnostic which may help (at the risk of causing even
more delay) would be to open a command window and start this loop:

netstat -asp tcp 9

That's a 9 second loop to show you just all TCP connections (both active
and closing). That might help you spot any unexpected connections which
might be interfering with the expected timing. To end the loop just press
Ctrl-c.


HTH

Robert
---

 

[Bob Stock]

I've been doing all those things too over the past 10 days, and yesterday I
finally was so fed up with it all that I installed Firefox

Heh. I've been giving serious thought to abandoning IE as well.
Can't decide which browser to go to. What do you think of Firefox?
How does it compare to Opera, for example? Or Netscape?

If I can't fix IE by the end of this weekend, I'm going to start
trying other options. It's a real mess. It really gripes me that I
can't even contact MS to help.

Bob

 

[Bob Stock]

I was able to reproduce your symptom I think by toggling on Prompts
also for Scripting. That was yesterday. Today the site seems to be
performing much better (perhaps even differently, e.g. fewer prompts).
So perhaps they have done something to it.

I wasn't sure what setting you meant. In the Security tab, I changed
"Active scripting" and "Scripting of Java applets" from Enable to
Prompt. When I went to the World Savings site, I then got a few
prompts. I tried answering no to all. I tried answering yes to all.
Either way, I got to the same hang point (24 items remaining to
download).

Do you have any other sites causing you problems? If so looking at them
might uncover some common factor. Try using that technique of using
prompts to break down the rendering of the page into describable chunks.
It also helps to do it with the IE window in Fullscreen mode (e.g. press F11)
in order to maximize the length of the URL being shown in the Status bar.

I can see the whole URL even without making it full screen. The other
sites that seem to break down are almost all secure sites in which I
log in to do something (like online banking or looking at my credit
card statement). I am able to log in, and generally do a couple of
things, but then after a few page transitions, it hangs. There are
multiple sites like that.

Another simple diagnostic which may help (at the risk of causing even
more delay) would be to open a command window and start this loop:

netstat -asp tcp 9

That's a 9 second loop to show you just all TCP connections (both active
and closing). That might help you spot any unexpected connections which
might be interfering with the expected timing. To end the loop just press
Ctrl-c.

I could try this, but I'm not really sure what I'd be looking for.

Bob

 

[Robert Aldwinckle]

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 11:26:55 -0400, "Robert Aldwinckle"


I wasn't sure what setting you meant. In the Security tab, I changed
"Active scripting" and "Scripting of Java applets" from Enable to
Prompt. When I went to the World Savings site, I then got a few
prompts. I tried answering no to all. I tried answering yes to all.
Either way, I got to the same hang point (24 items remaining to
download).

If you aren't seeing a change today perhaps you're using old files.
Try pressing Ctrl-F5 for a refresh (or equivalently clear your TIF.)

The simplest way to get prompts from the Security options is to
press P and Space all the way through the dialog. After you are
through testing click on the Default Level button to cancel those
Custom Level... changes.

Hmm... I just tried all those things again today and got the hang again.
I had to close the IE window to recover. The scripting prompts are back
but now it isn't hanging no matter how long I wait between replying to them.

I replied No to both "Scripting is usually safe..." prompts and got the
page "your security settings are too strict...". Clicking on the link to

http://www.worldsavings.com/servlet/wsavings/home/home.html

yielded another hang. Again I had to close the IE window to recover.

Restarting from that link and still replying No to scripting I was then able
to connect.

I think that there is definitely something strange going on with that site's
scripting. They want to force you to use it but they must be doing something
that makes it unreliable timing-wise. Provided I don't mess with the
timing by inserting the prompts I have no trouble with it.

I could try this, but I'm not really sure what I'd be looking for.

You don't have to understand the netstat displays to be able to notice
changes in them. My idea was that you would see references to your site
and see if the connection was open or abandoned. If you see new references
to another site it could be symptomatic of spyware which would definitely
have an adverse effect on timing, thus making your problem symptom
more likely.


HTH

Robert
---

 

[Nanny]

I like Firefox. It's a lot like IE , so you can use it almost automatically
from the start. It also imports your data, like favorites, cookies etc. from
IE, so you don't have to start all over again.
The only thing I still haven't found out is how to hear music on sites, but
compared to all the IE crashes I've been through that's a small thing ;-)

Nanny

 

[Bob Stock]

If you aren't seeing a change today perhaps you're using old files.
Try pressing Ctrl-F5 for a refresh (or equivalently clear your TIF.)

I did, no difference.

The simplest way to get prompts from the Security options is to
press P and Space all the way through the dialog. After you are
through testing click on the Default Level button to cancel those
Custom Level... changes.

Hmm... I just tried all those things again today and got the hang again.
I had to close the IE window to recover. The scripting prompts are back
but now it isn't hanging no matter how long I wait between replying to them.

I replied No to both "Scripting is usually safe..." prompts and got the
page "your security settings are too strict...". Clicking on the link to

http://www.worldsavings.com/servlet/wsavings/home/home.html

yielded another hang. Again I had to close the IE window to recover.

Restarting from that link and still replying No to scripting I was then able
to connect.

I think that there is definitely something strange going on with that site's
scripting. They want to force you to use it but they must be doing something
that makes it unreliable timing-wise. Provided I don't mess with the
timing by inserting the prompts I have no trouble with it.

If it were just World Savings's website that was causing me problems,
I'd chalk it up to them, but it's many websites. As I've explained
before, it's mostly secure websites that fail/hang after a few
transactions. These are mainly bank, broker, and credit card sites.
They are sites I used time and time again before upgrading to 6 with
zero problems. I get no error messages. Although they consistently
hang, they don't necessarily hang at exactly the same spot, although
some of it is fairly reproducible.

Bob

 

[Bob Stock]

If it were just World Savings's website that was causing me problems,
I'd chalk it up to them, but it's many websites. As I've explained
before, it's mostly secure websites that fail/hang after a few
transactions. These are mainly bank, broker, and credit card sites.
They are sites I used time and time again before upgrading to 6 with
zero problems. I get no error messages. Although they consistently
hang, they don't necessarily hang at exactly the same spot, although
some of it is fairly reproducible.

I want to change my answer.

It may not just be secure websites, it may be various websites where I
go from page to page within that particular domain, or it may be more
complex websites like that. For example, I just went to the LA Times
website and entered a search for an article. I got a list of results
and I clicked on the one I wanted. It hung. I then right-clicked on
the result link that hung and copied the link. I then closed the
browser, reopened it, and opened the copied link. Worked fine.

(Can't very well do this with secure websites because they require log
in, can't go directly to something within like I did with the LA
Times.)

I don't know if that helps diagnose the problem anymore, but I thought
I'd throw it in anyway just in case.

Bob

 

[Bob Stock]

It may not just be secure websites, it may be various websites where I
go from page to page within that particular domain, or it may be more
complex websites like that. For example, I just went to the LA Times
website and entered a search for an article. I got a list of results
and I clicked on the one I wanted. It hung. I then right-clicked on
the result link that hung and copied the link. I then closed the
browser, reopened it, and opened the copied link. Worked fine.

Sorry, forgot, here's the LA Times link that hangs and then works:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-janitors26jun26,1,6514597.story

Bob

 

[Bob Stock]

I FOUND THE PROBLEM.

I'm all excited. I found it accidentally. I got so frustrated I
downloaded Firefox and installed it. Then, I decided to get my
third-party cookie program, Cookie Pal, to try to work with Firefox
(it automatically works with Netscape, IE, or Opera). On Cookie Pal's
website, I found a whole page devoted to problems with IE 6 and
hanging.

http://www.kburra.com/support/ie6_info.html

I downloaded the latest version of Cookie Pal, followed the
instructions on the page, and lo and behold, it all worked.

Not clear to me whose fault this is (other than mine for not removing
Cookie Pal from the mix -- god knows, I removed just about everything
else to make sure), CPal's or MS's. CPal blames it on MS and points
to this KB article:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q306027

But the description doesn't sort of leap out at you in terms of the
description of the problem. I never clicked on Refresh. I just went
to various sites.

In any event, thanks to everyone who tried to help me, it's much
appreciated. But I wanted to report on the success. Hopefully, as I
start to use IE again more intensely, I won't discover any additional
hanging issues.

Bob