ICS not 100%

[Guest]

I had been using a cable modem and router to connect two computers to
the internet. Then I dropped the cable modem and went back to dial up.
But I have not been able to get the Internet Connection Sharing (ICS)
to work correctly ever since. Sometimes it seems to work ok, but then
out of nowhere, it will stop working and the best I can get it to do is
to let me browse, but my email program won't work (Eudora) and Adobe
Reader hangs on startup. Eudora also hangs on startup. It's almost
like the software is confused and is trying to go through the cable
modem that isn't there instead of the dial up modem.

The host computer uses 192.168.0.1 as the IP address with DHCP enabled.
The ICS client I am using is 192.168.0.75 at the moment. The router
in between is 192.168.0.101. When I run IPCONFIG on the ICS client it
returns

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.75
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1

I have looked at a dozen web pages that tell you how to set up ICS and
troubleshoot it. But they all seem to be about the same and mostly the
troubleshooting involves checking your settings.

Any ideas on how to get this working again? Normally I putz with it
for a while and it seems to start working again. This time it has been
down for two or three days and I have rebooted a dozen times and done
everything I can think of to get it going again.

 

[Herb Martin]

I had been using a cable modem and router to connect two computers to
the internet. Then I dropped the cable modem and went back to dial up.
But I have not been able to get the Internet Connection Sharing (ICS)
to work correctly ever since. Sometimes it seems to work ok, but then
out of nowhere, it will stop working and the best I can get it to do is
to let me browse, but my email program won't work (Eudora) and Adobe
Reader hangs on startup. Eudora also hangs on startup. It's almost
like the software is confused and is trying to go through the cable
modem that isn't there instead of the dial up modem.

If it is working but not for some programs then likely it is
a timeout, possibly a DNS issue.

If some services work you have ROUTING (and address translation.)

If some fail, there is something different about those services and
above are the obvious possibilities.

If one service is time-sensitive it might not work. If one service
is connecting to a resource but cannot resolve the name then that
is also a (less likely) possibility.

Another would be that some Ports are being filtered and others
are not but you are very unlikely to get that with ICS unless YOU
set it that way.

The host computer uses 192.168.0.1 as the IP address with DHCP enabled.
The ICS client I am using is 192.168.0.75 at the moment. The router
in between is 192.168.0.101. When I run IPCONFIG on the ICS client it
returns

Seems ok.

Any ideas on how to get this working again? Normally I putz with it
for a while and it seems to start working again. This time it has been
down for two or three days and I have rebooted a dozen times and done
everything I can think of to get it going again.

Yes, two ideas:

1) Break it down to something SIMPLER -- simplify, simplify, simplify:
Use tracert to see "how far" you get, try IP versus DNS name for
various connection types, connect to POP or SMTP servers with
telnet (or better is "nc.exe" -- netcat) to connect to the specific
service
ports and thus eliminate complicated programs like email client
software.

2) Did you remove the old NIC (for cable) AND perhaps recreate the
Dial connection and SHARE it as part of the configuration (since
that method almost always does it correctly.

Check firewall settings and make sure the INTERNAL (NIC) LAN
connection is not firewalled. Also check any third party firewalls.

Check OS version and all hotfixes etc.

 

[Guest]

If it is working but not for some programs then likely it is
a timeout, possibly a DNS issue.

But the browser also has to use DNS.

If some services work you have ROUTING (and address translation.)

If some fail, there is something different about those services and
above are the obvious possibilities.

Yes, but what? It is especially weird that Acrobat Reader has to phone
home before it will work. I guess it is checking for updates. I think
it tries to update from Ver 5 to the current one every so often.

If one service is time-sensitive it might not work. If one service
is connecting to a resource but cannot resolve the name then that
is also a (less likely) possibility.

It is more than just a question of not working. Both Eudora and
Acrobat hang as if they are trying to use the connection, but *never*
time out.

Another would be that some Ports are being filtered and others
are not but you are very unlikely to get that with ICS unless YOU
set it that way.


Seems ok.



Yes, two ideas:

1) Break it down to something SIMPLER -- simplify, simplify, simplify:
Use tracert to see "how far" you get, try IP versus DNS name for
various connection types, connect to POP or SMTP servers with
telnet (or better is "nc.exe" -- netcat) to connect to the specific
service
ports and thus eliminate complicated programs like email client
software.

2) Did you remove the old NIC (for cable) AND perhaps recreate the
Dial connection and SHARE it as part of the configuration (since
that method almost always does it correctly.

There was no special NIC. I just have one that connects the two
computers. The cable modem and router dealt with things before. I
turned off DNS on the router and let the dial up PC do that as per
directions for ICS. The method you describe in 2) is how I created the
dial up ICS in the first place.

Check firewall settings and make sure the INTERNAL (NIC) LAN
connection is not firewalled. Also check any third party firewalls.

What firewall? I used to use one in the router, but that is turned off
now. I don't have anything on the PC.

Check OS version and all hotfixes etc.

I have updated to SP4. You would think MS would have ICS working by
now in Win 2000.

Thanks for the advice. I may go back to cable modem. That worked
pretty well and is not any more money than an extra phone line. I
don't use the dial up so often, but when I am downloading something it
is a PITA to have the phone line tied up. An extra phone line or cable
modem or a cell phone are all about the same cost. I just need to
decide which one I could use more.

 

[Herb Martin]

But the browser also has to use DNS.

That is why DNS is only ONE possibility but usually a fairly
likely possibility.

We isolate and eliminate such suspicions by using the ideas
I gave you (below and in my previous response.)

Yes, but what? It is especially weird that Acrobat Reader has to phone
home before it will work. I guess it is checking for updates.
I think
it tries to update from Ver 5 to the current one every so often.

Almost certainly correct and part of the reason we do NOT
troubleshoot (much) using complex programs such as Acrobat,
Outlook, or even Internet Explorer when the answer is not
immediatly obvious: SIMPLIFY SIMPLIFY SIMPLIFY

....and ISOLATE.

It is more than just a question of not working. Both Eudora and
Acrobat hang as if they are trying to use the connection, but *never*
time out.

That is consistent with either a DNS issue or a routing issue,
perhaps JUST on the PORTS used by those programs.

Again, these programs are too complex (even Eudora) to make
good troubleshooting tools so we switch to something simpler
until we can prove BASIC and EXPLICIT functionality for
things like DNS and ROUTING and that PORT FILTERING is
NOT the issue.

There was no special NIC. I just have one that connects the two
computers. The cable modem and router dealt with things before.

Ok, so you weren't using ICS for the cable modem situation which
means that you don't have an example where ICS was EVER working.

The change from CableModem-Router was more abrubt
than just changing the Windows machine from one type
of routing or NIC to another.

I
turned off DNS on the router and let the dial up PC do that as per
directions for ICS. The method you describe in

Are you still USING the router? Is it providing DHCP
assigned addresses and options?

If so, then likely it is still providing it's own IP as the default
gateway and DNS setting to the clients (and that is NOT going
to work.)

It might also be interferring with the Windows machine's own
(internal) address which will be 192.168.0.1.

It might FURTHER be competing as a DHCP server so the
client might get good settings from Windows ONE TIME and
BAD ones from the router the next time (e.g., day etc.)

2) is how I created the dial up ICS in the first place.


What firewall? I used to use one in the router, but that is turned off
now. I don't have anything on the PC.

It's just one thing to check AND low probability if you think or
say you don't have any such firewalls.

Many people do have such -- we have even have people say
"Don't have one" only to come back the next day and "remember"
that they do and this was the solution.

I have updated to SP4. You would think MS would have ICS working by
now in Win 2000.

They do.

It's almost certainly something with your setup (or MAYBE
hardare) but it's always a good idea to eliminate random
variables and for us to know which OS etc you are running.

And, having less than SP4 (with hotfixes) for a machine serving
as a NAT (ICS) is pretty dangerous anyway.

Thanks for the advice. I may go back to cable modem. That worked
pretty well and is not any more money than an extra phone line. I

Fine, but don't do this because you cannot setup ICS. Do it because
you want the extra speed of the Cable and can afford it.

ICS is actually pretty easy.

don't use the dial up so often, but when I am downloading something it
is a PITA to have the phone line tied up. An extra phone line or cable
modem or a cell phone are all about the same cost. I just need to
decide which one I could use more.

Agreed. If you can afford the cable modem that is the way to
go -- but that should not be due to failure to setup ICS but rather
other good reasons for preferring the cable modem.

 

[Guest]

That is why DNS is only ONE possibility but usually a fairly
likely possibility.

We isolate and eliminate such suspicions by using the ideas
I gave you (below and in my previous response.)


Almost certainly correct and part of the reason we do NOT
troubleshoot (much) using complex programs such as Acrobat,
Outlook, or even Internet Explorer when the answer is not
immediatly obvious: SIMPLIFY SIMPLIFY SIMPLIFY

...and ISOLATE.


That is consistent with either a DNS issue or a routing issue,
perhaps JUST on the PORTS used by those programs.

Again, these programs are too complex (even Eudora) to make
good troubleshooting tools so we switch to something simpler
until we can prove BASIC and EXPLICIT functionality for
things like DNS and ROUTING and that PORT FILTERING is
NOT the issue.


Ok, so you weren't using ICS for the cable modem situation which
means that you don't have an example where ICS was EVER working.

No, ICS had been working just fine on dialup before I had the cable
modem. I think I used a switch rather than the current router, but ICS
was set up and working on the PC.

The change from CableModem-Router was more abrubt
than just changing the Windows machine from one type
of routing or NIC to another.



Are you still USING the router? Is it providing DHCP
assigned addresses and options?

Yes on 1 and no on 2.

If so, then likely it is still providing it's own IP as the default
gateway and DNS setting to the clients (and that is NOT going
to work.)
nope


It might also be interferring with the Windows machine's own
(internal) address which will be 192.168.0.1.
nope


It might FURTHER be competing as a DHCP server so the
client might get good settings from Windows ONE TIME and
BAD ones from the router the next time (e.g., day etc.)

and nope...

PC1 (ICS host for dialup connection) 192.168.0.1
PC2 (ICS client) 192.168.0.75 (assigned by DHCP)
router 192.168.0.101 (assigned by me in router setup)

It's just one thing to check AND low probability if you think or
say you don't have any such firewalls.

Many people do have such -- we have even have people say
"Don't have one" only to come back the next day and "remember"
that they do and this was the solution.

I checked yesterday and again today and the answer is still, no
firewall.

They do.

It's almost certainly something with your setup (or MAYBE
hardare) but it's always a good idea to eliminate random
variables and for us to know which OS etc you are running.

And, having less than SP4 (with hotfixes) for a machine serving
as a NAT (ICS) is pretty dangerous anyway.

Ok, so what are the random variables? Just because the problem can be
fixed with a change in the setup does not mean ICS works well. If your
car stopped running every day because it did not do well when idling in
traffic jams, would you blame it on the traffic jams? If a program is
hard to set up correctly or to diagnose the problem, I blame the
program. PCs are getting much more reliable, both hardware and
software. But it can still be very hard to diagnose problems. Even at
work, the IT people have trouble figuring out the cause of many
problems we have.

Fine, but don't do this because you cannot setup ICS. Do it because
you want the extra speed of the Cable and can afford it.

ICS is actually pretty easy.

In theory. It worked BC (before cablemodem). But now it is very
flakey.