how to debug a new system with a failing setup ?

[mk]

Hi,
I am trying to put together a system with A8N-E Asus 939 motherboard,
an AMD Athlon 64 3200 venice cpu brand-new from retail box and some
OCZ EL memory. This system either crashes with PFN_LIST_CORRUPT or
just hangs after windows xp says "starting windows". I tried different
types of memory, I started with a corsair twinx and tried a pny stick
and now I bought an OCZ all with the same results. So I really don't
think it's the memory which leaves me with either a bad CPU or
motherboard which is a bummer. I am not sure if the video card can
cause this. It is an Nvidia 6800 PCI-E. Any ideas how I should proceed
? I've been trying the install on a SATA drive which I'lll switch to
regular IDE but I doubt if that's going to make a difference. I also
upgraded the BIOS from 1005 to 1008 which didn't make any difference.
The cpu fans is rotating and the heat-sink feels cool as this is
happening when the system has ran only a couple of minutes anyway.
Any and all ideas/suggestions/clues are welcome.

 

[Chris Streeter]

Hey MK,

From what I remember this error is cause either by bad ram or by a bad
driver. here are a few things I would suggest:

1. With your ram go into your bios and double check on your timings and
voltage. many times your bios can be set initally to have aggressive
settings that yor ram isn't rated for. like my ram is rated for (2-3-3-5)
That is the spd info, but it can't handle that with an amd system in dual
channel mode. I need to set my timings down to (2.5-3-3-5) in order to run
it in dual channel mode. I would definately check the voltage that your ram
is set to. my ram is rated for 2.7volts but the default is usually only 2.5,
so you may have to adjust it. After you have checked your ram settings, on a
good machine download the memtest86+ iso and use it to check your ram. the
iso can be downloaded from here http://www.memtest.org/

2. the next section is going to be to check your drivers, This sounds like
it may be more the case as it sounds like you have already installed the OS
and replaced the ram a few times. I'd check all of your drivers and their
sources and try to figure out which drivers may be causing this. was there a
driver that was installed recently? if not it may go all the way back to
when you installed the OS and gave the system your SATA driver by pressing
f6 during the install. it could have been a fluke miscopy, or a driver that
wasn't ready for use yet.

During all of this it may end up being a bad cpu as the memory controller is
now inside the cpu's core.

hope i have been of some help, let us know what goes on.

Chris

 

[mk]

Unfortunately things didn't improve much. To recap, this is a system
on which I have never been able to install XP so far. It runs
memtest86 3.1 for hour with no errors (I am running it more right now)
and I have a gold OCZ memory running at 2.5 CL so I don't think memory
is the problem.
I have already disconnected the SATA drive and added a brand new IDE
drive so I don't even need any extra drivers. So currently I only have
A8N-E with the 3200+ Athlon 64 cpu with BIOS 1010 and an Nvidia 6800
pcie graphics card. I tried another pcie card (a 6600) with the same
results:
When I try to install windows xp, it goes all the way to "starting
windows" after F8 license stuff and crashes with other a code A, 7E
etc. I am really stuck and trying to figure out how to proceed. I
think it could be cpu or the motherboard at this point.
Are there any programs to test these components ?
Thanks.

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

Unfortunately things didn't improve much. To recap, this is a system on
which I have never been able to install XP so far. It runs memtest86 3.1
for hour with no errors (I am running it more right now) and I have a
gold OCZ memory running at 2.5 CL so I don't think memory is the
problem.
I have already disconnected the SATA drive and added a brand new IDE
drive so I don't even need any extra drivers. So currently I only have
A8N-E with the 3200+ Athlon 64 cpu with BIOS 1010 and an Nvidia 6800
pcie graphics card. I tried another pcie card (a 6600) with the same
results:
When I try to install windows xp, it goes all the way to "starting
windows" after F8 license stuff and crashes with other a code A, 7E etc.
I am really stuck and trying to figure out how to proceed. I think it
could be cpu or the motherboard at this point. Are there any programs to
test these components ? Thanks.

If you've run Memtest86 for an hour the memory system is probably fine,
however to be on the safe side try setting the memory clock rate down in
your BIOS to either 133MHz or 166MHz. Trying a parallel IDE drive is also
a good idea. If that doesn't work then the next thing to try is another OS
just to make sure it's not a driver issue or a bad CD problem. I'd
suggestion that you download Ubuntu Linux on another machine and burn an
install CD. Ubuntu uses a single install CD which and it's easy to install
which is why I'm suggesting that you try it. If you don't want to bother
with an install then you could use the Ubuntu Live CD which will allow you
to run Ubuntu directly off of the CD. If Ubuntu works then your hardware
is OK and the problem is with Windows.

http://www.ubuntulinux.org/

 

[Bill]

Unfortunately things didn't improve much. To recap, this is a system
on which I have never been able to install XP so far. It runs
memtest86 3.1 for hour with no errors (I am running it more right now)
and I have a gold OCZ memory running at 2.5 CL so I don't think memory
is the problem.
I have already disconnected the SATA drive and added a brand new IDE
drive so I don't even need any extra drivers. So currently I only have
A8N-E with the 3200+ Athlon 64 cpu with BIOS 1010 and an Nvidia 6800
pcie graphics card. I tried another pcie card (a 6600) with the same
results:
When I try to install windows xp, it goes all the way to "starting
windows" after F8 license stuff and crashes with other a code A, 7E
etc. I am really stuck and trying to figure out how to proceed. I
think it could be cpu or the motherboard at this point.
Are there any programs to test these components ?
Thanks.

Checked to see if your installation media doesn't have any scratches
or snotballs on it?

Bill

 

[mk]

Checked to see if your installation media doesn't have any scratches
or snotballs on it?

Bill

Alas I tried an original XP Pro CD, a slipstreamed SP1 CD-R and a XP
64 CD with the same results. Now I'll try to install Ubuntu Linux to
see what I get there.

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

Alas I tried an original XP Pro CD, a slipstreamed SP1 CD-R and a XP
64 CD with the same results. Now I'll try to install Ubuntu Linux to
see what I get there.

One more thing to check in the BIOS, there is a feature called Memory Hole
Remapping which is there so that systems with 4G of memory can make all 4G
available. Check to see if the feature is on, if it is turn it OFF and
then try and boot your system. I don't know anything about XP but the
Linux 2.6.14 kernels can't handle this (2.6.13 handles it fine, a bug
seems to have been introduced in 2.6.14). I don't know if XP64 can
handle memory hole remapping but it's almost certain that 32 bit XP will
freak out if this feature is turned.

 

[Chris Streeter]

I'm curious to see what is going on with the system now. There is still a
few things that could be wrong, i'm thinking that the ram is going to be
fine though. back in the days when everything i installed was an add in card
and i had issues, i'd take everything out that wasn't needed and try again.
so using that same idea lets try disabling all of the add in cards that
aren't needed in the bios to get the OS installed. Onboard sound, ethernet
controller, Sata controller, usb ports, everything that isn't needed for the
install. if this works then we know that either a component on the board is
bad, or a provided driver isn't working very well with the motherboard.
Another thing i would suggest trying is pull the motherboard out of the
case, sit it on an anti static foam. Install the video card, connect a hard
drive and the cdrom needed for the install. then try installing the OS .
This will eliminate the possiblity of the motherboard shorting out on a
standoff or another part of the case. Check the motherboard for any stray
pieces of metal.

Aside from those options i'd see about borrowing another cpu from a friend
or the first system that is working very well, and try the install. If the
install goes well then we'll know the cpu is at fault, if not, it might be a
good idea to swap out the power supply with a good high wattage spare and
see what happens. i'd try the cdrom next before an rma, just as a last
resort check. If all else fails it might be a good time to rma the
motherboard. .If you can't run a diagnostic on the parts, atleast replace
them with known good parts to see if you can find the problem that way.


Chris

 

[Bill]

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 16:32:00 -0800, Bill



Alas I tried an original XP Pro CD, a slipstreamed SP1 CD-R and a XP
64 CD with the same results. Now I'll try to install Ubuntu Linux to
see what I get there.

Well, it was worth a shot.

Bill

 

[mk]

One more thing to check in the BIOS, there is a feature called Memory Hole
Remapping which is there so that systems with 4G of memory can make all 4G
available. Check to see if the feature is on, if it is turn it OFF and
then try and boot your system. I don't know anything about XP but the
Linux 2.6.14 kernels can't handle this (2.6.13 handles it fine, a bug
seems to have been introduced in 2.6.14). I don't know if XP64 can
handle memory hole remapping but it's almost certain that 32 bit XP will
freak out if this feature is turned.

I was so hopeful on this one but alas it didn't help.One other piece
of info is that the system is not that stable with memtest86 3.1
(which is what I had initially). I left it on running for 7 hours and
when I came back it was running only for 1 hours 30 minutes so it must
have crashed in the mean time at least once. I am running memtest86
3.2 to see if it's going to last longer.

Now the system is running with motherboard on the bench and the things
connected are power switch, ide hard disk, cdrom, memory and video
card. I also tried a 6600 video card with similar results. I am
seriously considering RMA'ing the motherboard. Is ASUS nice about it?
I got the motherboard on Ebay new so I don't have a reseller per se.
I'll try calling them tomorrow morning.
Also I am in Silicon Valley, does ASUS do drop-off RMAs ? Certainly
hope so.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

Have you tried setting the DDR clock speed down?

 

[Paul Lower]

Hi
I have just had all this trouble setting up a similar system.
The first thing to do is uninstall the Nvidia IDE drivers. They just don't
work correctly with XP. I also had to do a Bios update. Make sure your
motherboard bios supports E4 stepping. AMD keep changing the stepping and
some M/B manufacturers have not caught up with the bios updates.
I hope this helps.
Paul

 

[mk]

followup:

I sent in the motherboard for repair after changing the dvd drive and
trying to install ubuntu linux which also failed. Right now it's
either the cpu or the motherboard and ASUS was nice enough to RMA the
motherboard. If they come back saying it was not the motherboard, I'll
have to buy a new cpu I guess.

 

[mk]

followup:

I sent in the motherboard for repair after changing the dvd drive and
trying to install ubuntu linux which also failed. Right now it's
either the cpu or the motherboard and ASUS was nice enough to RMA the
motherboard. If they come back saying it was not the motherboard, I'll
have to buy a new cpu I guess.

I got a new motherboard from ASUS (I live in the valley so I just
drove there to drop and pickup) and installed the CPU again with some
arctic silver 5. Now windows installs just fine and everything seems
to be ok other than getting some errors from memtest86 v3.2. At least
windows seems to work though and I can exchange the memory I hope.

BTW is memtest86 likely to give errors ? ie are the errors I am seeing
definitely an indication that there is something wrong with the memory
I have ? I guess so. I am using corsair twinx2048-3200c2pt. I put it
in 2-3-3-8 1T mode. Maybe I should relax that a little. What's the
parameter which is likely to cause the most trouble ?

Thanks.

 

[Chris Streeter]

Not knowing off hand what the memory is rated for specifically, i'd guess
that the cas at 2.0 should be raised to 2.5 and then check memtest again.

Chris

 

[mk]

Not knowing off hand what the memory is rated for specifically, i'd guess
that the cas at 2.0 should be raised to 2.5 and then check memtest again.

actually the memory is corsair twinx2048-3200c2pt so it should work at
cl=2. the first thing i tried was to increase the ddr voltage by 50mV
which made memtest work little bit more but the system locked up in
half an hour. then i tried cl=2.5 and started running prime95 torture
test which has run for nearly two hours. i'll continue to run prime95
today and will run the new memtest tomorrow night but at this point i
think i have a pretty reliable system at cl=2.5. the time cost of this
system is way over-budget already so i won't mess with the memory. i
maybe losing around %1 of performance but who gives a **** at this
point.

 

[Chris Streeter]

Its good to hear that your system is much more stable. When i was shopping
for my memory it was hard to find a 2x1gb that that had good timings. even
though my sticks are rated for 2.0 CL they are only rated at that speed for
an intel system which i find wierd, but for an nforce system they are rated
for the 2.5cl i guess with marketing everyone always sticks there best foot
forward and that can sometimes leave alot to be desired.

 

[Mark Liermann]

Hi,
I am trying to put together a system with A8N-E Asus 939 motherboard,
an AMD Athlon 64 3200 venice cpu brand-new from retail box and some
OCZ EL memory. This system either crashes with PFN_LIST_CORRUPT or
just hangs after windows xp says "starting windows". I tried different
types of memory, I started with a corsair twinx and tried a pny stick
and now I bought an OCZ all with the same results. So I really don't
think it's the memory which leaves me with either a bad CPU or
motherboard which is a bummer. I am not sure if the video card can
cause this. It is an Nvidia 6800 PCI-E. Any ideas how I should proceed
? I've been trying the install on a SATA drive which I'lll switch to
regular IDE but I doubt if that's going to make a difference. I also
upgraded the BIOS from 1005 to 1008 which didn't make any difference.
The cpu fans is rotating and the heat-sink feels cool as this is
happening when the system has ran only a couple of minutes anyway.
Any and all ideas/suggestions/clues are welcome.

I hope you took the time to try a different power supply........