How to attach leads straight to battery?

[krw]

I have an IBM Thinkpad too, and my battery is also junk. I bought the
computer used. It's a T43. The battery was dead days later. There
was a warranty, but the company refused to send me the battery, said I
had to mail in the computer. Well, first off the cost of mailing was
more than a battery, and what about my personal data. No thanks !!!!

We have two ThinkPads (T60 and a T61) and I gave an older T60 to my son, a few
years back. Of the three, only mine, the newest, has any battery life left.
Mine is just over three years old and my wife's is four. The kid's totally
died recently so has gone to the great bit bucket in the sky.

For work, I've had a TP A21 (the nicest of them all) and a T43. Each one has
gotten a little worse, particularly since IBM sold the business. There is a
very good possibility that my T61 is the last of the ThinkPads for me, even
though I get a rather decent discount on them. I have no idea what else to
buy though. All laptops seem to be junk.

Really, three years is about all you can realistically expect out of a LiIon
battery.

I live in a rural area and stuff like this is not sold anywhere
nearby. I also refuse to shop ebay ever since they stopped accepting
money orders about 3 or 4 years ago. There's no way in hell that I'll
give my banking info to Paypal.

You don't have to. I bought all my ThinkPads and accessories online, using a
credit card.

Anyhow, I have the same problem. I just leave the computer plugged in
all the time. If I take it somewhere, I plug it inot my car inverter.
That solved the problem. But I would like to eventually find a means
to make a socket for a standard CR2032 battery. But thats a cold
weather project.

Mine is almost always plugged in (docking station) but the battery still has
over 60% (ext.) capacity. My wife's is just about gone and I was thinking
about buying a replacement but the ThinkPad is four years old.

Oner last comment. I have found that all the IBM computers I have
had, including my desktop computer which I am using right now, are
well built, but all of them seem to have Bios battery issues. In my
desktop puter I have to replace the battery at least twice a year. I
dont mind that so much, but having specialty batteries with wires are
a major inconvenience and a very stupid design.

IBM hasn't made desktop or laptop PCs for at least five years (more like
seven).

 

[Oren]

The BIOS settings are controlled by the battery, I think with an empty
battry, he use the defaults.

Modern BIOSs have auto detect - no real need to fuss with the
settings, unless they are special.

 

[micky]

Some machines will not boot with a dead battery in place, but will, with
the battery removed. Not familiar with Thinkpads, so not sure if that
applies in OP's case.

I should have tried it with the battery out -- sort of too late now
(I should have read this post Saturrday instead of Sunday at
midnight)-- , but I found webpages describing the 161 and 163 error
numbers on a Thinkpad, at least some of them, and they all agreed it
was the CMOS battery.

In addition, I once had a MAC II, and though they are famous for being
better designed than PC's, the guy at the computer user group I used
to go to told me that they too will not boot without a good cmos
battery. And in the case of that computer, the battery was soldered
in, and almost everyone ended up taking it to repairman to be
serviced, JUST for this battrey. That's two levels worse than most
PCs. Oh, and apparently it was a secret back then that the battery
was the problem. So that's 3 levels worse. What he woudl do is
put in a battery holder for 2 AAA batteries iirc. so customers
wouldn't have to pay him a second time. Or maybe he was just talking
about his own computers and friends'.

 

[micky]

The ones that will not boot with a dead battery won't boot without
one either (we are talking CMOS battery - not main power). Some bad
main power batteries WILL prevent the system from booting - and
removing THEM will allow the system to boot. Common on Toshiba A100s,
among others.

Good to know. And it also means I didn't lose out by not reading the
previous post yesterday.

 

[micky]

NOT true on many of the early TPs.. At least one of my old 600s (E
or X,

Ye s, this one is a 600E

cannot remember which) would not boot at all with a dead CMOS
battery, and IIRC the T43 would not either. Had to replace the CMOS
batteries on a few to get them to boot.

It tunrs out that mini torch I was talking about, Archer brand, from
when Radio Shack used the Archer brand, burned butane and micronox,
whatever that is.

And I had never read the manual all the way t through, and it was only
for brazing, it seemed, not soldering, and there were supposed to be
brazing rods, which my friend didn't give me. I have some for bigger
torches but I'm sure brazing the battery would ruin it.

So I tried soldering. When I was little, like 1`953,, I found in a
box in the basement, wiith electrical parts, two D-cells and a
lightbulb wired together. I think it had all been stuffed in a cake,
It might have been for my brother, because I surely don't remember it.
and my parents saved it all even though the batteries were long dead.

But the wires were soldered to the battery, and I thought that was
cool, so yesterday I tried to solder to the CR2032. Yes it seems to
be satainless steel and that certaiinly is harder than a D-cell 60
years ago.

So I used some separate flux to save time and heating, and a WEN
soldering gun, but it just didn't stick.

Also the battery was a lot hotter than I expected after I had tried 3
or 4 times, but it stilll read 3 volts and still says that today too.

So I bought a thinner coin batterry holder at Radio Shack today, for
1.19 but it's still not thin enough. (Maybe John McGraw's side
grabbing one will be thin enough, but i'm not buying anything else
until the rest of the computer works) So I used longer wires, and ran
them through the small crack where the CD drive slides into the bay in
the laptop, then applied heatshrink to the battery holder and battery.

And now it will start. It stil doesn't boot right from the hard
drive but it does start DOS from Hiren's boot CD

I'm learning a lot, and even though it's old equipment, it's as int
eresting as any computer stuff I've done in months.

Thanks all.

 

[micky]

Perhaps you might cannibalize a suitable socket assembly from an old
discarded motherboard and attach wires to that.

Peter

LOL I did that. I destroyed a whole, probably working computer
yesterday must to get the battery holder. They sell them for 1.19 at
Radio Shack but it was 101 degrees yesterday, Saturday, and I didn't
want to go out. It was from 1995 and only ran at 200 MHz, and I got
it free and was never going to use it. I have an ISA card left over
and 3 of the next generation -- I forget their name. Plus some
other parts I'll probably never use. I don't think the case will fit
new mobos, so I made a little space.

 

[micky]

(Googles, to look at a picture)

I'd order the proper battery, but to tide you over till it shows up,
just cut apart the shrink wrap on the old one, and cut the wires as
close as you can to the tabs, or actually cut the ears off the tabs. You
want bare metal showing on the end of each wire. As best you can, tape
them to the new cell from your fridge, making sure to keep polarity
correct. Gently put it all back together, and try not to bang things
around till the new battery shows up. This is not a high-current
application, so as long as it is good metal-to-metal contact, and
nothing shorts out, it should work.

f this would work it would have been a good idea too. Too late now
mayube, but this might have worked becaus ethere is some spring loaded
space between two pieces of metal where the battery goes.

I could have put a drop of sollder on each wire's end, so the wire was
thicker than the insulation.

This is the sort of answer I was looking for, among others, but there
weree so many answers, I didn't take time to read them all!!

Of course, all this only works if you have enough slack in the leads,
otherwise you would need to extend them.

I have done home-brew laptop CMOS batteries like that more than once.
Some ended up being permanent fixes, since the correct part was not
available, or cost more than entire laptop was worth.

Some would say that 9 dollars is more than the laptop is worht.

I spend 23 dollars on the 40 gig HDD, but I figure I can use that in
other laptops in the future.

That is, unless they insist on SATA or something.. I didn't think
of that when I bought it.


(Although just tonightt for the first time, someone on Freecycle is
giving away two laptops. And both are missiing harddrives. He
thinks they may also be broken. I don't know if he's going to give
tghem to me or someone else yet. I may not be the first to reply. )

 

[micky]

I have an IBM Thinkpad too, and my battery is also junk. I bought the
computer used. It's a T43. The battery was dead days later. There
was a warranty, but the company refused to send me the battery, said I
had to mail in the computer. Well, first off the cost of mailing was
more than a battery, and what about my personal data. No thanks !!!!

I live in a rural area and stuff like this is not sold anywhere
nearby.

There is a lot of stuff that's not sold nearby even if you live in a
big city. More and more I think, now that mail order is so well
espatablished. Okay, web order.

For example, I doubt any place in Battimore will have the battery I
need. And it's too much trouble to call around anyhow. Who might
have it is a computer repair place, but I assume they will charge 20
dollars instead of 9.

I also refuse to shop ebay ever since they stopped accepting
money orders about 3 or 4 years ago. There's no way in hell that I'll
give my banking info to Paypal.

The idea was that instead of giving your credit card number to every
single company, person, or thief you bought from, you'd give it to
only one company, Paypal. That seems like a good idea to me. They
have my debit card number and have never stolen from me, nor has
anyone else gotten the number from Paypal. I heard on the radio that
a credit card is better than a debit card in this case, but that's for
another reaons, not secuiryt. )

Anyhow, I have the same problem. I just leave the computer plugged in
all the time. If I take it somewhere, I plug it inot my car inverter.
That solved the problem. But I would like to eventually find a means
to make a socket for a standard CR2032 battery. But thats a cold
weather project.

Read my other posts. I used a RAdio Shack battery holder. I was
going to run the wires out beneath the memory compartment cover, until
I noticed it was metal with sharp edges. I still could have cut a
hole at the edge, but that would have left sharp edges too. I could
have drilled a hole and put in a grommet. Is it bad to drill a hole
through the memory compartment cover? Why is the cover metal to
begin with? Are they stilll metal in the newer slightly lighter
laptops.

Oner last comment. I have found that all the IBM computers I have
had, including my desktop computer which I am using right now, are
well built, but all of them seem to have Bios battery issues. In my
desktop puter I have to replace the battery at least twice a year. I
dont mind that so much, but having specialty batteries with wires are
a major inconvenience and a very stupid design.

FWIW I have a home assembled computer on an ASUS mobo and I've only
replaced the battery once in 8 years I think, plus the previous owner
used t he board for 2 or 3 years.

I may be moving to a Dell soon, all assembled by Dell. (This is mm,
mm2005 by the way.)

 

[jw]

There is a lot of stuff that's not sold nearby even if you live in a
big city. More and more I think, now that mail order is so well
espatablished. Okay, web order.

For example, I doubt any place in Battimore will have the battery I
need. And it's too much trouble to call around anyhow. Who might
have it is a computer repair place, but I assume they will charge 20
dollars instead of 9.

If it was all that important, I'd rather pay $20 than give my banking
info to Paypal. They could rob me of much more money than the extra
$11. Remember, Paypal is OWNED by Ebay.

The idea was that instead of giving your credit card number to every
single company, person, or thief you bought from, you'd give it to
only one company, Paypal. That seems like a good idea to me. They
have my debit card number and have never stolen from me, nor has
anyone else gotten the number from Paypal. I heard on the radio that
a credit card is better than a debit card in this case, but that's for
another reaons, not secuiryt. )

You've been lucky *SO FAR*.
I used to buy from Ebay at least once a month, and did so for years.
That;s until they stopped allowing sellers to take money orders. I
did not mind paying the buck or two to buy the money order. It kept
Ebay out of my personal life and particularly my bank. I was a
regular customer for a few ebay sellers. I asked them if I could
still send them a MO. They said that if I did, they could lose their
ebay seller account. When ebay issued this change, they just said
"**** you" to some of their customers (like me), becuase they wanted
to make a few more pennys with their damn Paypal. I have not used
Ebay since. Honestly, I dont think ebay should be able to dictate how
a customer pays the seller anyhow. Ebay lists the items and gets a
commission. Just like any brick and mortar store or auction service
who sells stuff at a commission. When I buy from a seller, I should
be able to pay them using any legal currency available, and that
includes plastic, cash, checks, money orders, Western Union, and
online payment services. But Ebay got greedy and insisted they get
those extra pennys.

Read my other posts. I used a RAdio Shack battery holder. I was
going to run the wires out beneath the memory compartment cover, until
I noticed it was metal with sharp edges. I still could have cut a
hole at the edge, but that would have left sharp edges too. I could
have drilled a hole and put in a grommet. Is it bad to drill a hole
through the memory compartment cover? Why is the cover metal to
begin with? Are they stilll metal in the newer slightly lighter
laptops.

If I must, I intend to run the wires to the bottom of the computer and
make some sort of 3/4" high legs in the corners. One of them will
contain a coin cell holder. Laptops often die early deaths because
they overheat. The problem is that the air vents on the bottom are
blocked. They are called "laptops", but I have never used one on my
lap. I sit them on a table, or worse, on a padded couch or my bed.
That blocks the heat circulation. These legs will allow more air
space and can eliminate spending $9 or more for a $2 CR2032 battery.

 

[Dan]

I have an IBM Thinkpad too, and my battery is also junk.  I bought the
computer used.  It's a T43.  The battery was dead days later.  There
was a warranty, but the company refused to send me the battery, said I
had to mail in the computer.  Well, first off the cost of mailing was
more than a battery, and what about my personal data.  No thanks !!!!

I live in a rural area and stuff like this is not sold anywhere
nearby.  I also refuse to shop ebay ever since they stopped accepting
money orders about 3 or 4 years ago.  There's no way in hell that I'll
give my banking info to Paypal.  

Anyhow, I have the same problem.  I just leave the computer plugged in
all the time.  If I take it somewhere, I plug it inot my car inverter.
That solved the problem.  But I would like to eventually find a means
to make a socket for a standard CR2032 battery.  But thats a cold
weather project.

Oner last comment.  I have found that all the IBM computers I have
had, including my desktop computer which I am using right now, are
well built, but all of them seem to have Bios battery issues.  In my
desktop puter I have to replace the battery at least twice a year.  I
dont mind that so much, but having specialty batteries with wires are
a major inconvenience and a very stupid design.

When a laptop CMOS battery dies--after 5 to 7 years--it's not supposed
to be replaced, one is supposed to buy a latter model. Had it been
meant to be user-replacable, it wouldn't be at all difficult to locate
it on the bottom like extra memory module. I wonder why no-one has
suggested this.

 

[SMS]

It seems my IBM Thinkpad's CMOS battery has died, and it's know that
it won't boot wihtout it.

I don't have time to wait for a new one by mail, plus I have some
CR2032's in my fridge. The flat things that look like litttle
frisbees.

The current one has the wires connected to metal tabs stuck (welded?)
to the battery on both sides. Is there a way I can do this without
exploding or otherwise ruining the battery???????

Someone else made a good suggestion in using a Rear Window Defogger
Repair Kit which is probably available at an auto parts store in your
area. Tape or heat shrink over the connections. Not very sturdy but
could get you by for while.

 

[SMS]

On a TP it IS. If the CMOS is invalid, many TPs will NOT boot -
period.

Won't the CMOS be invalid even when he puts in a good battery?

This is pretty strange since the way the CMOS battery circuit is
designed is that the coin cell only powers the CMOS when there is no
other power source available. On a desktop, the +5V STBY from the ATX
supply maintains the CMOS when the system is off (unless someone
foolishly controls the AC power from a power strip). On a laptop, the
main battery or external power maintains the CMOS unless neither is
available, then the coin cell takes over. That's why the coin cell can
last for so many years. On the older PCs with AT supplies, the backup
battery was much larger because it maintained the CMOS whenever the
machine was powered off, even when it was still plugged in.

 

[jw]

When a laptop CMOS battery dies--after 5 to 7 years--it's not supposed
to be replaced, one is supposed to buy a latter model. Had it been
meant to be user-replacable, it wouldn't be at all difficult to locate
it on the bottom like extra memory module. I wonder why no-one has
suggested this.

Only an idiot would buy into this thinking !!!!!!!
(of course plenty of them exist).

 

[Smitty Two]

They use spot welds for a reason. A spot welder wouldn't
do nearly as much thermal damage to the CR2032 as soldering would.

They use spot welds because it's fast and automated. I've soldered to
batteries dozens of times.

 

[Nobody > (Revisited)]

They use spot welds because it's fast and automated. I've soldered to
batteries dozens of times.

True on the fast and automated, but heat *still* is the primary reason.

You actually meant to say "cells" I hope. It's not a battery until it
has 2 or more cells in it.

But every time you have heat-damaged them (to some degree)by soldering,
or didn't get a true "solder bond" and all you did was a piss-poor glue
job with a blob of solder. .. usually both.

Years ago AAA thru D cell ends were a snap to solder to. The metal was
usually tinned, or far easier to bond than the alloys used in
cell/battery cases now. Good rule: the shinier the metal, the harder it
is to solder to it (unless you were scraping off corrosion).

Change "dozens" "to hundreds" for me (50+ years as a techician), but it
was always a stop-gap no-guarantee no-trust kludge repair.

--
"Shit this is it, all the pieces do fit.
We're like that crazy old man jumping
out of the alleyway with a baseball bat,
saying, "Remember me motherfucker?"
Jim “Dandy” Mangrum

 

[SMS]

But every time you have heat-damaged them (to some degree)by soldering,
or didn't get a true "solder bond" and all you did was a piss-poor glue
job with a blob of solder. .. usually both.

That's true. If you heated the steel of the battery up to the the
temperature where solder melts you would destroy the battery. It would
be difficult to even achieve this given the amount of steel on 2032,
you'd need a very high wattage iron or a torch. But sometimes a blob of
solder is sufficient if the joint isn't subjected to any mechanical stress.

 

[Smitty Two]

That's true. If you heated the steel of the battery up to the the
temperature where solder melts you would destroy the battery. It would
be difficult to even achieve this given the amount of steel on 2032,
you'd need a very high wattage iron or a torch. But sometimes a blob of
solder is sufficient if the joint isn't subjected to any mechanical stress.

Bullshit again. I know how to solder. Soldering is very, very easy to
learn, but most people never bother learning. Soldering to a battery (or
a "cell," sheesh) is trivial, and causes no damage at all if done
properly.

 

[Chris S.]

Bullshit again. I know how to solder. Soldering is very, very easy to
learn, but most people never bother learning. Soldering to a battery (or
a "cell," sheesh) is trivial, and causes no damage at all if done
properly.

The 2032 is a battery. 2 1.5V cells.

 

[micky]

Won't the CMOS be invalid even when he puts in a good battery?

Apprarently not. The fefaults must be good enough.

All I did is replace the battery, and it boots from a bootable CD. It
wouldn't do that before. It still won't boot from the HDD, because
I did sometthing wrong to the HDD, but the Hiren's Boot CD does see
the HDD.

(No time to work on it more for about two weeks. Going out of town.
No time even to read replies. I'll post again when I get back.)

This is pretty strange since the way the CMOS battery circuit is
designed is that the coin cell only powers the CMOS when there is no
other power source available. On a desktop, the +5V STBY from the ATX
supply maintains the CMOS when the system is off (unless someone
foolishly controls the AC power from a power strip). On a laptop, the
main battery or external power maintains the CMOS unless neither is
available, then the coin cell takes over. That's why the coin cell can
last for so many years. On the older PCs with AT supplies, the backup
battery was much larger because it maintained the CMOS whenever the
machine was powered off, even when it was still plugged in.

Well, this machine was unplugged for 2+ years, during which time the
CMOS battery went dead** so the contents at that point were, I
suppose, empty or invalid, but putting in the cmos battery did
sometihng and now it's booting.

**(and probably the laptop battery too, which I probably recharged
partially by now.

 

[Nobody > (Revisited)]

Bullshit. I solder for a living and know how to do it. I'm not
advocating it for others, especially those who don't know how to solder.

So did I (retired now). You and I both agree on the part of advocating
soldering repairs "for the masses". I didn't know that before my statements.

I was making money at age 10 fixing botched Heathkits. Bad soldering was
~60% of the problems I found.

In some ways, I'm glad I retired. The areas of electronics I dealt in
hadn't been hit by RoH "solder" yet, but it was coming fast. The few
times I dealt with that crap, I hated it, but I guess I could have
learned it if I had to.

--
"Shit this is it, all the pieces do fit.
We're like that crazy old man jumping
out of the alleyway with a baseball bat,
saying, "Remember me motherfucker?"
Jim “Dandy” Mangrum