High-tech vs. cheap-tech

B

bbbl67

An interesting viewpoint from an analyst firm about why HP is doing
well, Dell is not; and why AMD is doing well, but Intel is not. It was
written in Barron's.


Technology Tilts to Upscale

Caris & Co.
1250 Broadway, 27th Floor
New York, N.Y. 10001
(Tel) (917) 464-1600

THERE IS A POWERFUL DYNAMIC in the technology business that is required
to explain many recent developments -- at times customers actively seek
out more-expensive and more-capable products while shunning lost-cost
products that are viewed as obsolete. In periods of rapid change, like
now, many people will spend more to buy "future" protection.

This preference for high-tech over cheap-tech is clearly evident in
today's PC and server markets -- to the advantage of Hewlett-Packard
and the detriment of Dell -- as well as in the television-set market to
the benefit of Sony and in the smartphone market benefiting many,
including Palm, Research in Motion, Motorola, Nokia, Sony-Ericsson and
Qualcomm.

This tilt toward high-tech is likely to stretch into 2007-2008 and
possibly beyond -- depending on the pace of the combined upgrade cycles
to Windows Vista, Virtual Computing, high-definition media and
smartphones. Each of these upgrades is massive on its own and arguably
without precedent in the respective markets. Taken together, this broad
upgrade cycle -- to support the global expansion of digital services --
is the most important change in technology in the past five to 10
years, in our opinion.

Recent reports of inventory buildups and potentially missed quarters in
PCs have been combined with wildly contradictory indications of
component shortages and rising final product average selling prices.
What's going on here? We believe the best explanation is that Advanced
Micro Devices' high-tech is beating Intel's cheap-tech in the market --
leading to misses for those dependent on Intel that have probably been
exaggerated by AMD's "sold-out" condition.

Another potential casualty of this high-tech tilt is Apple Computer.
Dependent on subsidies to maintain its Macintosh margins, Apple has
switched from IBM's subsidy to one from Intel. Unfortunately, Apple's
high-prices are exposed now that its 32-bit Intel products are
demonstrably inferior to competitors using 64-bit AMD microprocessors.
The ability to run Windows XP -- via the just introduced "Boot Camp" --
on a Mac is likely to lead to a series of unfavorable comparisons,
highlighting Apple's weakened competitive position as the PC world
moves past XP toward Vista.

We recognize that investors who have been trained to only expect steady
price declines and even price wars will find this shift towards
high-tech counterintuitive. As a result, many may be inclined to miss
opportunities and/or to exit strongly performing stocks too soon.

We suggest that H-P's aggressive use of high-tech AMD in both its PCs
and servers will be a continuing reason to prefer its stock to its
cheap-tech rival Dell.
 
H

HomeLess

when was this written ?



An interesting viewpoint from an analyst firm about why HP is doing
well, Dell is not; and why AMD is doing well, but Intel is not. It was
written in Barron's.


Technology Tilts to Upscale

Caris & Co.
1250 Broadway, 27th Floor
New York, N.Y. 10001
(Tel) (917) 464-1600

THERE IS A POWERFUL DYNAMIC in the technology business that is required
to explain many recent developments -- at times customers actively seek
out more-expensive and more-capable products while shunning lost-cost
products that are viewed as obsolete. In periods of rapid change, like
now, many people will spend more to buy "future" protection.

This preference for high-tech over cheap-tech is clearly evident in
today's PC and server markets -- to the advantage of Hewlett-Packard
and the detriment of Dell -- as well as in the television-set market to
the benefit of Sony and in the smartphone market benefiting many,
including Palm, Research in Motion, Motorola, Nokia, Sony-Ericsson and
Qualcomm.

This tilt toward high-tech is likely to stretch into 2007-2008 and
possibly beyond -- depending on the pace of the combined upgrade cycles
to Windows Vista, Virtual Computing, high-definition media and
smartphones. Each of these upgrades is massive on its own and arguably
without precedent in the respective markets. Taken together, this broad
upgrade cycle -- to support the global expansion of digital services --
is the most important change in technology in the past five to 10
years, in our opinion.

Recent reports of inventory buildups and potentially missed quarters in
PCs have been combined with wildly contradictory indications of
component shortages and rising final product average selling prices.
What's going on here? We believe the best explanation is that Advanced
Micro Devices' high-tech is beating Intel's cheap-tech in the market --
leading to misses for those dependent on Intel that have probably been
exaggerated by AMD's "sold-out" condition.

Another potential casualty of this high-tech tilt is Apple Computer.
Dependent on subsidies to maintain its Macintosh margins, Apple has
switched from IBM's subsidy to one from Intel. Unfortunately, Apple's
high-prices are exposed now that its 32-bit Intel products are
demonstrably inferior to competitors using 64-bit AMD microprocessors.
The ability to run Windows XP -- via the just introduced "Boot Camp" --
on a Mac is likely to lead to a series of unfavorable comparisons,
highlighting Apple's weakened competitive position as the PC world
moves past XP toward Vista.

We recognize that investors who have been trained to only expect steady
price declines and even price wars will find this shift towards
high-tech counterintuitive. As a result, many may be inclined to miss
opportunities and/or to exit strongly performing stocks too soon.

We suggest that H-P's aggressive use of high-tech AMD in both its PCs
and servers will be a continuing reason to prefer its stock to its
cheap-tech rival Dell.
 
G

George Macdonald

An interesting viewpoint from an analyst firm about why HP is doing
well, Dell is not; and why AMD is doing well, but Intel is not. It was
written in Barron's.

Depends what you mean by interesting. If I put on my disinterested hat --
oops it's a little wobbly :) -- this is no better nor worse than the
articles which are saying the opposite and panning AMD/praising Intel. The
authors have to have err, research which supports:

"Caris has "buy" ratings on Hewlett-Packard (nyse: HPQ - news - people
) and AMD, an "average" rating on Dell, and a "below average" rating on
Intel (nasdaq: INTC - news - people )."

While AMD fans, especially those of us with AMD stock, would like to
believe it, in the end is all so much anal...yst BS... the
"greed"/retirement industry at work.;-)
 
H

HomeLess

Thanks. It is recent, just wondering if the market had a couple days
to react. Then again it may not matter as W., after the bell is
earnings. Easy bet it'll move 2 bucks +
 
J

Judd

HP is doing well? HP is laying off 15,000 employees. They are sunk. I
would take their stock if someone gave it to me, but I'm not buying it.
Other than printers, they are not a good buy. Their retail channels
commoditize their products and the margins are very slim. Dell is much
smarter to keep doing business there way and wait out the storm. It will
pay off soon enough.
 
N

nobody

HP is doing well? HP is laying off 15,000 employees. They are sunk. I
would take their stock if someone gave it to me, but I'm not buying it.
Other than printers, they are not a good buy. Their retail channels
commoditize their products and the margins are very slim. Dell is much
smarter to keep doing business there way and wait out the storm. It will
pay off soon enough.

The anal...yists have their own set of benchmarks. Laid off 15k
expensive Americans and/or Europeans? Good - they save on wages and
benefits. Sent the work to dirt-cheap Indians/Chinese? Good.
Customers p!$$ed off by Indian call center @$$holes? No problem. Paid
outsize bonuses to execs? Good - it is called talent retention expense
in anal..yist speak. Spent money on R&D? Baaaaaaad!!! - that's waste
of valuable and limited resources.
;P

NNN
 
J

Judd

The anal...yists have their own set of benchmarks. Laid off 15k
expensive Americans and/or Europeans? Good - they save on wages and
benefits. Sent the work to dirt-cheap Indians/Chinese? Good.
Customers p!$$ed off by Indian call center @$$holes? No problem. Paid
outsize bonuses to execs? Good - it is called talent retention expense
in anal..yist speak. Spent money on R&D? Baaaaaaad!!! - that's waste
of valuable and limited resources.
;P


LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Y

Yousuf Khan

George said:
"Caris has "buy" ratings on Hewlett-Packard (nyse: HPQ - news - people
) and AMD, an "average" rating on Dell, and a "below average" rating on
Intel (nasdaq: INTC - news - people )."

While AMD fans, especially those of us with AMD stock, would like to
believe it, in the end is all so much anal...yst BS... the
"greed"/retirement industry at work.;-)

True enough.

Yousuf Khan
 
B

bbbl67

The 15,000 laid off is old news, happened about a year or two ago. Now,
it is doing rather well.

Yousuf Khan
 
T

Tony Hill

The 15,000 laid off is old news, happened about a year or two ago. Now,
it is doing rather well.

The lay-offs were only announced after Mark Hurd took over as CEO last
summer, and they were expected to take 18 months. HP is only about
halfway through this round of layoffs.

As for "doing rather well", they are at least making money, though not
anything to get too excited about. For the last quarter of both
companies, Dell's net earnings were $1.012 billion on revenue of
$15.2B. HP's earnings were $1.2B on revenue of $22.7B, so Dell's
profit margin is actually better than HPs.

Doing a comparison by product lines is a bit trickier because Dell
doesn't seem to be reporting earnings by product like HP does.
However it is clear that HP's largest money-maker is their Imagine and
Printing group, with $973M in profit. The Personal Systems Group
(desktop and laptop computers) only had $293M in profit while
Enterprise Servers and Storage managed $326M in profit. Note: these
numbers may not necessarily reflect the $1.2B total profit above due
to differences in accounting.

Anyway, the point being that it's tough to say that HP is doing rather
well while Dell is in bad shape. Any anal...yst doing so is probably
just trying to pump up whatever stock they need pumping at the moment.
 
Y

Yousuf Khan

Tony said:
Anyway, the point being that it's tough to say that HP is doing rather
well while Dell is in bad shape. Any anal...yst doing so is probably
just trying to pump up whatever stock they need pumping at the moment.

I don't think it's necessarily an analyst trying to pump a specific
stock, as much as it is just coming up with a hypothesis behind some
stock price directions recently. During the past couple of quarters, HP
has rocketed after their earnings reports, while during the same period
Dell has plummetted. Investors are reacting to something that's
relatively different between them, and I think it's probably the
product mixes. Other than product mixes, their numbers aren't too far
off of each other.

Yousuf Khan
 
J

Judd

bbbl67 said:
The 15,000 laid off is old news, happened about a year or two ago. Now,
it is doing rather well.

Yousuf Khan
That would be incorrect Youssuf. I know several HP engineers that won't get
the can until November. They have only laid off about 5000 of the 15000.
There will be 5000 this summer and 5000 again in the late fall/winter.
Trust me, things are just now starting to hurt for them. They are not doing
rather well at all. They are downsizing products and the brains that build
them. They are turning into Packard Bell. In fact, their new name should
be Hewlett Packard Bell. I can't believe you think they are doing well.
They are not! There cash flow is very small comparatively and paying
millions to worthless execs that lost them big money didn't help.
 
J

Judd

Yousuf Khan said:
I don't think it's necessarily an analyst trying to pump a specific
stock, as much as it is just coming up with a hypothesis behind some
stock price directions recently. During the past couple of quarters, HP
has rocketed after their earnings reports, while during the same period
Dell has plummetted. Investors are reacting to something that's
relatively different between them, and I think it's probably the
product mixes. Other than product mixes, their numbers aren't too far
off of each other.

Yousuf Khan

I'm telling you now, wait until the 1st quarter next year. HP is a bad,
bad, stock.
 
T

Tony Hill

I don't think it's necessarily an analyst trying to pump a specific
stock, as much as it is just coming up with a hypothesis behind some
stock price directions recently. During the past couple of quarters, HP
has rocketed after their earnings reports, while during the same period
Dell has plummetted. Investors are reacting to something that's
relatively different between them, and I think it's probably the
product mixes. Other than product mixes, their numbers aren't too far
off of each other.

It's not just the last quarter, HP's stock has gone up pretty
consistently since February of last year when they gave Carly the
boot! Product mixes might have something to do with it, but I think a
lot more of this stems from corporate restructuring.
 
G

George Macdonald

It's not just the last quarter, HP's stock has gone up pretty
consistently since February of last year when they gave Carly the
boot! Product mixes might have something to do with it, but I think a
lot more of this stems from corporate restructuring.

Talking of err, Carleton... I see she just got appointed to TSMC BoD. I
still can't figure how that stuff works... bounce from one corporate
disaster site to another for 20 years or so and you end up with offers of
plum sinecures. Tell me it's err, the Lizard people.... please.:)
 
K

Keith

Talking of err, Carleton... I see she just got appointed to TSMC BoD. I
still can't figure how that stuff works... bounce from one corporate
disaster site to another for 20 years or so and you end up with offers of
plum sinecures. Tell me it's err, the Lizard people.... please.:)

Hell, we've still got our lizards. These same folks were just telling us
how well our customers are doing (up 40% here, 35% there) and I turned to
a former boss and said, yeah and we get 0%. ...or less. Me bitter? Not
a chance. I'm over the hump.
 
D

Del Cecchi

Keith said:
Hell, we've still got our lizards. These same folks were just telling
us
how well our customers are doing (up 40% here, 35% there) and I turned
to
a former boss and said, yeah and we get 0%. ...or less. Me bitter?
Not
a chance. I'm over the hump.

They must have been paying you enough. You didn't quit.

del
 
K

Keith

They must have been paying you enough. You didn't quit.

Quit? Not until I got what was "promised" me. I would have been *long*
gone with the deal the newbs get. Us old bastards have the locked-in
bennies. ...as long as the company survives, anyway.
 

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