HIGH Screen resolution kills performance in WIN/XP?

C

Coffee Lover

I got my resolution AS high as possible right now.
I read/heard the higher the resolution, you get a drop in performance?
1280 X 1024 right now, what's a good one for performance?

Or does it matter????????
 
F

Frank McCoy

In alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt Coffee Lover
I got my resolution AS high as possible right now.
I read/heard the higher the resolution, you get a drop in performance?
1280 X 1024 right now, what's a good one for performance?

Or does it matter????????

Depends on your CPU speed and your card capability.
For most even reasonably recent boards I usually use 1600x1200 for the
desktop.
Higher resolution makes most things too small.
Even with that resolution, I pick large icons and adjust the font sizes.
By doing that, things look a lot better.
Large scaled fonts on a higher resolution machine are just easier on the
eye than small fonts on a lower resolution machine scaled to the same
size. They're just finer grained; and the eye sees them better.

The bigger the monitor, the more resolution you need.
On a 17" monitor, 1024x768 is probably enough.
For a 19", I'd go with what you got.
For something bigger, go higher.
For an LCD monitor, go with "native resolution".
(My LCD, for example, is 1680x1050 ... just a tad better than a 21" CRT
at 1600x1200.)

Games are different.
There you keep raising the resolution until you see the response-time of
the game drop. Once that happens, you drop down one step. Each game
will likely be different in this. Choose as much hardware acceleration
as your board and game will permit. Sometimes there's a trade-off
between hardware techniques like shading and resolution. That you have
to experiment with to see which looks best to you.
 
F

Franky

Coffee Lover said:
I got my resolution AS high as possible right now.
I read/heard the higher the resolution, you get a drop in performance?
1280 X 1024 right now, what's a good one for performance?

Or does it matter????????

Its desktop resolution, not game resolution ..which could be different. Then
it depends on what card and system you have.
 
K

kony

I got my resolution AS high as possible right now.
I read/heard the higher the resolution, you get a drop in performance?

Usually no, sometimes yes.

Try being specific with hardware details and use, and you
might get a specific answer.


1280 X 1024 right now, what's a good one for performance?

Or does it matter????????

Not normally. Old integrated video or gaming matters more.
 
H

hummingbird

I got my resolution AS high as possible right now.
I read/heard the higher the resolution, you get a drop in performance?
1280 X 1024 right now, what's a good one for performance?

Or does it matter????????

I use 800 x 600 on my 17" LCD and it displays at lightning speed
with excellent sharpness etc. I'm at a loss to know why so many
people use higher res on similar monitors.
 
F

Frank McCoy

I use 800 x 600 on my 17" LCD and it displays at lightning speed
with excellent sharpness etc. I'm at a loss to know why so many
people use higher res on similar monitors.

If you have an LCD monitor, you should really really *REALLY* use
"native resolution" on the thing. Anything else is crappy and a fairly
bad compromise in quality. That's completely *unlike* CRT monitors that
can change resolutions without compromising any quality except the
difference in resolution itself ... which depends a lot more on the
dot-pitch capabilities of the monitor than actual resolution selected.

An LCD or plasma-panel have exactly so many pixels; no more, and no
less. If you pick a lower resolution; then the screen has to juggle
things and sometimes smear one line across two, and others one-for-one;
often making fine details look really crappy. Rarely indeed do the
resolutions come out *exactly* two-to-one; which is the best compromise
possible.

A CRT, on the other hand, just changes the sweep speeds to *exactly*
match whatever display resolution you set ... Presuming the monitor does
support that mode.

Setting any other resolution for desktop or games than native resolution
on an LCD panel is really a BIG mistake ... and hard on the eyes, too.

Oh, some games *won't* work in full native resolution (800x600 being the
limit for some older types); but that's becoming quite rare these days.
 
B

BobR

Coffee Lover said:
I got my resolution AS high as possible right now.
I read/heard the higher the resolution, you get a drop in performance?
1280 X 1024 right now, what's a good one for performance?

Or does it matter????????

I see there are (as of yet) no programmers in this thread!
[ assume byte == 8 bits ]

Think about what the poor ol' CPU has to do (assuming your video card/MB has
no extra performance features).

640x480x4(bytes (32bits)) == 307200 x4 == 1228800.
..... and it has to do that 60 times a second to be flicker free:
times 60Hz == 73728000 bytes per second.

1280x1024 == 1310720x4 == 5242880
times 60Hz == 314572800 bytes per second.

How could it not affect preformance?

Now, the hardware guys in this NG know that newer video cards/MBs have some
special features that speed things up. That's why thay say, "it depends".

That help any?
 
F

Frank McCoy

In alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt "BobR"
Coffee Lover said:
I got my resolution AS high as possible right now.
I read/heard the higher the resolution, you get a drop in performance?
1280 X 1024 right now, what's a good one for performance?

Or does it matter????????

I see there are (as of yet) no programmers in this thread!
[ assume byte == 8 bits ]

Think about what the poor ol' CPU has to do (assuming your video card/MB has
no extra performance features).

640x480x4(bytes (32bits)) == 307200 x4 == 1228800.
.... and it has to do that 60 times a second to be flicker free:
times 60Hz == 73728000 bytes per second.

1280x1024 == 1310720x4 == 5242880
times 60Hz == 314572800 bytes per second.

How could it not affect preformance?
Easy.
You're assuming (and we all know what ass-u-me does) that the processor
has to update every pixel on every display-cycle.

Even with full-motion full-scree video, that's not true.
Most of the load is handled by special hardware on the video-board;
specially designed to do just such things.

When nothing or very little changes on the screen, there's essentially
NO load on the processor at all!

Your desktop can be two-billion by two-billion pixels; and as long as
the display and video-card are rated to that resolution, it puts *NO*
load on the processor at all during most things that happen. Filling
out screens of data with text or the graphics available on websites
takes about nothing of the processors capabilities.

About the only thing that DOES heavily use both a processor and
video-card at higher resolutions, are video-games.

THERE, (in games) you pretty much have to TRY your board/card
combination and find out how much resolution you can set the card to and
still have reasonably decent response-time or without the movements
getting jerky. The higher the resolution you can pick, the better the
game generally looks.

That's WHY ultimate gamers pick both high-end or even multiple
processors, and video boards with multi-megapixel throughput, along with
heavy on-board processor power to do the fancy shading and stuff so the
main motherboard processor doesn't have to.

THERE, it's usually far more the video-board abilities that determine
whether a game runs smoothly at high resolution than anything else.

That, of course, makes the high price of such boards worth it to those
people who spend large portions of their time playing such games.

But for the *desktop*, it don't take shit essentially from the processor
at the highest resolution you can set the board/display combination.

What makes the difference *there* is clarity.
Now, the hardware guys in this NG know that newer video cards/MBs have some
special features that speed things up. That's why thay say, "it depends".
It more than "just depends"; in *gaming* that makes all the difference
in the world, which board and processor and memory you have.

For the desktop though, high and low resolution run at about the same
speed. Low resolution looks crappy though; and High resolution can make
some things too small to see easily. So, you sometimes have to change
font-sizes and icon sizes if you go high-resolution on the desktop. But
doing-so DOES make a big difference in how easy things are on the eye.

Geesh.
 
C

Coffee Lover

Usually no, sometimes yes.

Try being specific with hardware details and use, and you
might get a specific answer.

OS-Windows XP.Home SP2 5.1.2600
Motherboard-Asus A8S-X BIOS 08/26/05 VER: 08.00.10 SiS 756 AMD Hammer
CPU-AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Venice S939 Step DH-E6
Monitor- LG L1933TR-SF LCD 19"
Video Card-NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GS(256 MB) NV41GS
Memory-Corsair VS1GB400C3 1GB(PC3200 DDR SDRAM)
Hard Drive-Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS Perpendicular
Recording Technology 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s
DVD-SAMSUNG IDE Model SH-S182M/BEBE 18X DVD±R DVD Burner 12X DVD-RAM
Write, LightScribe
 
F

FKS

hummingbird said:
I use 800 x 600 on my 17" LCD and it displays at lightning speed
with excellent sharpness etc. I'm at a loss to know why so many
people use higher res on similar monitors.

Run the monitor at its native resolution and see what you've been missing.
 
K

kony

OS-Windows XP.Home SP2 5.1.2600
Motherboard-Asus A8S-X BIOS 08/26/05 VER: 08.00.10 SiS 756 AMD Hammer
CPU-AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Venice S939 Step DH-E6
Monitor- LG L1933TR-SF LCD 19"
Video Card-NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GS(256 MB) NV41GS
Memory-Corsair VS1GB400C3 1GB(PC3200 DDR SDRAM)
Hard Drive-Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS Perpendicular
Recording Technology 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s
DVD-SAMSUNG IDE Model SH-S182M/BEBE 18X DVD±R DVD Burner 12X DVD-RAM
Write, LightScribe


In typical 2D uses, you have no bottleneck from the
resolution. In modern 3D gaming, you will begin to see some
framerate reductions with moderate to higher eyecandy, but
depending on the game it may still be an acceptible
compromise.

In general, use the resolution you desire without concern
until you see obvious choppiness on-screen.
 
H

hummingbird

I use 800 x 600 on my 17" LCD and it displays at lightning speed
with excellent sharpness etc. I'm at a loss to know why so many
people use higher res on similar monitors.

Frank & FKS:
I can see no reference to 'native resolution' in any of the utils
which display monitor specs. The max resolution of my monitor is
reported as being 1280 x 1024 ...is this what you mean by native?
Native resolution may be referenced in the small user manual which
I can't locate right now.

Whether upgrading to 1280 x 1024 would improve the image on the
screen, I don't know. My current 800 x 600 @32bit colour & 75Hz
refresh rate already produces excellent image/colour quality when
viewing my digital camera pix etc and possibly generates images faster
than a higher resolution. I know there's some debate about that.

Although I'm interested in this I'm unlikely to change the resolution
settings because I have large numbers of scanned documents and
thousands of images which I have sized to display on screen in the way
I want. Using a higher resolution would make them appear smaller on
the screen.
 
H

hummingbird

Frank & FKS:
I can see no reference to 'native resolution' in any of the utils
which display monitor specs. The max resolution of my monitor is
reported as being 1280 x 1024 ...is this what you mean by native?
Native resolution may be referenced in the small user manual which
I can't locate right now.

Whether upgrading to 1280 x 1024 would improve the image on the
screen, I don't know. My current 800 x 600 @32bit colour & 75Hz
refresh rate already produces excellent image/colour quality when
viewing my digital camera pix etc and possibly generates images faster
than a higher resolution. I know there's some debate about that.

Although I'm interested in this I'm unlikely to change the resolution
settings because I have large numbers of scanned documents and
thousands of images which I have sized to display on screen in the way
I want. Using a higher resolution would make them appear smaller on
the screen.

I would add that I never use my PC for gaming etc ... just regular
stuff + TV card viewing.
 
F

Frank McCoy

Frank & FKS:
I can see no reference to 'native resolution' in any of the utils
which display monitor specs. The max resolution of my monitor is
reported as being 1280 x 1024 ...is this what you mean by native?
Native resolution may be referenced in the small user manual which
I can't locate right now.
Most likely, if it's shown as max, that's your native resolution.
Most modern LCD panel displays report to the OS what resolutions they
support (as do most modern CRTs). I'm not sure exactly how they do; but
am pretty sure it's part of the VESA spec for monitors.
Whether upgrading to 1280 x 1024 would improve the image on the
screen, I don't know. My current 800 x 600 @32bit colour & 75Hz
refresh rate already produces excellent image/colour quality when
viewing my digital camera pix etc and possibly generates images faster
than a higher resolution. I know there's some debate about that.
Actually, going "native" in this case *could* actually make things
faster ... but most likely the images would be generated at the same
rate. And as for image/colour quality ... You don't know what you're
missing by not running at native resolution. I think you'll find the
difference is about the same as shifting from EGA resolution to 800x600.

Yes, THAT much.
Although I'm interested in this I'm unlikely to change the resolution
settings because I have large numbers of scanned documents and
thousands of images which I have sized to display on screen in the way
I want. Using a higher resolution would make them appear smaller on
the screen.

Actually, I'd say TRY IT!!!
I think you'd find the difference in size minimal between 800x600 and
1280x1024; being not much of a (only 60%) difference, while the
improvement in *clarity* could be tremendous!

IOW: Even though *smaller*, with native resolution the images would be
*so much sharper*, they'd be far easier on the eye to look at and grasp.

I don't think you fully realize what a compromise it is when downgrading
resolution on an LCD panel. On a CRT monitor, not much is lost, if any.
On an LCD, the things done to make lower resolutions work at all is
really CRAPPY.

Try it: You'll never go back; and wonder why you ever ran in that mode
on an LCD panel in the first place.

If it doesn't work, you can always shift back.
It only takes a few SECONDS to shift resolutions, you know.
And, a few more to shift back.
Run a few of your favorite programs.
Look at some of your favorite pictures.
Shift between modes, and see the astounding difference.
Geesh.

An LCD panel is pretty much CRIPPLED except at native resolution.
Especially one below 1680x1050 native.
Even there, the compromises are bad.
 
F

Frank McCoy

I would add that I never use my PC for gaming etc ... just regular
stuff + TV card viewing.

All the more reason to go with native resolution.
GAMES generally switch resolutions to what the game thinks it needs with
a particular card. Often you're forced to downgrade resolutions to get
decent speed on a particular game.

With a normal desktop however, you don't have that problem.
And, since there's *no* speed penalty (the subject of the thread) on
just about any desktop use, why make your eyes bleed by looking at a bad
compromise for an LCD panel? It's about like deliberately taking
out-of-focus pictures on a good camera that you bought for it's quality.

Worse actually, if you knew what the software actually does to even
display a downgraded resolution on an LCD panel.
 
H

hummingbird

Most likely, if it's shown as max, that's your native resolution.
Most modern LCD panel displays report to the OS what resolutions they
support (as do most modern CRTs). I'm not sure exactly how they do; but
am pretty sure it's part of the VESA spec for monitors.

Actually, going "native" in this case *could* actually make things
faster ... but most likely the images would be generated at the same
rate. And as for image/colour quality ... You don't know what you're
missing by not running at native resolution. I think you'll find the
difference is about the same as shifting from EGA resolution to 800x600.

Yes, THAT much.


Actually, I'd say TRY IT!!!
I think you'd find the difference in size minimal between 800x600 and
1280x1024; being not much of a (only 60%) difference, while the
improvement in *clarity* could be tremendous!

IOW: Even though *smaller*, with native resolution the images would be
*so much sharper*, they'd be far easier on the eye to look at and grasp.

I don't think you fully realize what a compromise it is when downgrading
resolution on an LCD panel. On a CRT monitor, not much is lost, if any.
On an LCD, the things done to make lower resolutions work at all is
really CRAPPY.

Try it: You'll never go back; and wonder why you ever ran in that mode
on an LCD panel in the first place.

If it doesn't work, you can always shift back.
It only takes a few SECONDS to shift resolutions, you know.
And, a few more to shift back.
Run a few of your favorite programs.
Look at some of your favorite pictures.
Shift between modes, and see the astounding difference.
Geesh.

An LCD panel is pretty much CRIPPLED except at native resolution.
Especially one below 1680x1050 native.
Even there, the compromises are bad.

Right!!!!!!!! I'm going to give it a try overnight UK time and report
back here tomorrow. I predict that the difference will be minimal
but will openly admit the truth of whatever it does.
Watch this space!.................
 
K

KCB

Frank McCoy said:
In alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt Coffee Lover


Depends on your CPU speed and your card capability.
For most even reasonably recent boards I usually use 1600x1200 for the
desktop.
Higher resolution makes most things too small.
Even with that resolution, I pick large icons and adjust the font
sizes.
By doing that, things look a lot better.
Large scaled fonts on a higher resolution machine are just easier on
the
eye than small fonts on a lower resolution machine scaled to the same
size. They're just finer grained; and the eye sees them better.

The bigger the monitor, the more resolution you need.
On a 17" monitor, 1024x768 is probably enough.
For a 19", I'd go with what you got.
For something bigger, go higher.
For an LCD monitor, go with "native resolution".
(My LCD, for example, is 1680x1050 ... just a tad better than a 21"
CRT
at 1600x1200.)

Games are different.
There you keep raising the resolution until you see the response-time
of
the game drop. Once that happens, you drop down one step. Each game
will likely be different in this. Choose as much hardware
acceleration
as your board and game will permit. Sometimes there's a trade-off
between hardware techniques like shading and resolution. That you
have
to experiment with to see which looks best to you.

--
_____
/ ' / T
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_

Frank, 1600*1200 has 156,000 more pixels than your 1680*1050. Other
than being wide-screen, how is yours a tad better?
 
F

Frank McCoy

Frank, 1600*1200 has 156,000 more pixels than your 1680*1050. Other
than being wide-screen, how is yours a tad better?

Because the pixels on the LCD screen are *much* better defined; and
don't bleed into each other like those on a CRT do. This makes
(viewing-wise) much clearer Icons and even text; almost like going up
the next step in resolution to 2400x1800, without having to change sizes
of everything to match. Each pixel is more *distinct* from the next
one. Also, the screen is *always* filled out to the edges, perfectly
square, with no tilt, keystone, pincushion, or other defect like purity
and misalignment that you get in CRT screens at similar definitions.

So the LCD panel at close to the same number of pixels *greatly*
outshines the CRT at the a similar resolution.

That's why I bought it ... That and the CRT getting a tad jittery.
 
M

Mr.E Solved!

Frank McCoy wrote:

So the LCD panel at close to the same number of pixels *greatly*
outshines the CRT at the a similar resolution.

Can you say that again for the audience at home having a hard time
trying to understand what you are saying?
That's why I bought it ... That and the CRT getting a tad jittery.

You were quite right about LCD panels being at their best at their
native resolution, you should quit while you are ahead, fair warning! :)
 
D

DaveW

You did not say what type of monitor you have: CRT or LCD? It matters. If
you have an LCD then you HAVE to set the monitor to it's Native Resolution,
which is the ONLY resolution that will cause images and text to appear with
maximum detail.
Check you owner's manual.
 

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