frontpage 2003 and .NET

[Jim Cheshire]

Kevin,

I am speaking of user controls in the context of the
System.Web.UI.UserControl class and, once again, they are not templated
controls. The second link I provided gives you the details, and that article
is not out of date. It is still very much relevant and shows you what a
templated control really is.

If you want to really understand this issue, read Nikhil Kothari's book
_Developing Microsoft ASP.NET Server Controls and Components_. (Nikhil is
widely considered the ultimate expert on this topic. I'll bet you know
why.) Nikhil says "a templated control enables page developers to specify
some or all of the UI it renders via templates." A User Control does not
fall into this category. A true templated control (such as the Repeater
control) does.

A templated control also gets its main functionality from the ITemplate
type. A User Control does not. Once again, it's important to realize that
the TemplateControl class is absolutely not synonymous with templated
controls.

As I said before, the information I have provided is accurate and I was
simply trying to give you more information about a topic which I feel you do
not fully understand. I'm not trying to get into a spitting contest with
you.

--
Jim Cheshire
Jimco
http://www.jimcoaddins.com
================================
Author of Special Edition
Using Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003
5 Stars on Amazon and B&N
================================
The opinions expressed by me in the
newsgroups are my own opinions and
are in no way associated with my
employer or any other party. Jimco is
not associated in any way with any other
entity.

 

[Kevin Spencer]

Apparently, we are never going to agree on this topic.

--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
Big things are made up
of lots of little things.

 

[Jim Cheshire]

We probably will if you would read Nikhil's book!

--
Jim Cheshire
Jimco
http://www.jimcoaddins.com
================================
Author of Special Edition
Using Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003
5 Stars on Amazon and B&N
================================
The opinions expressed by me in the
newsgroups are my own opinions and
are in no way associated with my
employer or any other party. Jimco is
not associated in any way with any other
entity.

 

[Kevin Spencer]

I hardly buy books any more, relying on the .Net SDK for about 98% of my
knowledge.

--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
Big things are made up
of lots of little things.

 

[Jim Cheshire]

Nikhil's book is excellent. This is one area where the SDK serves to offer
more confusion than clarity. I deal with developers all the time writing
custom controls who are completely confused by it. I always point them to
Nikhil's book.

--
Jim Cheshire
Jimco
http://www.jimcoaddins.com
================================
Author of Special Edition
Using Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003
5 Stars on Amazon and B&N
================================
The opinions expressed by me in the
newsgroups are my own opinions and
are in no way associated with my
employer or any other party. Jimco is
not associated in any way with any other
entity.

 

[Kevin Spencer]

I'll stick to the horse's mouth. ;-)

--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
Big things are made up
of lots of little things.

 

[Jim Cheshire]

Then you need Nikhil's book.

--
Jim Cheshire
Jimco
http://www.jimcoaddins.com
================================
Author of Special Edition
Using Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003
5 Stars on Amazon and B&N
================================
The opinions expressed by me in the
newsgroups are my own opinions and
are in no way associated with my
employer or any other party. Jimco is
not associated in any way with any other
entity.

 

[chris leeds]

whats the name of that book?

 

[Jim Cheshire]

Developing Microsoft ASP.NET Server Controls and Components.

--
Jim Cheshire
Jimco
http://www.jimcoaddins.com
================================
Author of Special Edition
Using Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003
5 Stars on Amazon and B&N
================================
The opinions expressed by me in the
newsgroups are my own opinions and
are in no way associated with my
employer or any other party. Jimco is
not associated in any way with any other
entity.

 

[Kevin Spencer]

Apparently not. I've done quite well without it.

--
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
Big things are made up
of lots of little things.

 

[Jim Cheshire]

If you want to understand what templated controls are, I really do recommend
that you read Nikhil's book. As a developer, you cannot afford to
misunderstand such a powerful part of the Framework. A solid knowledge of
templated controls, how they work, and how they are developed will serve you
very well.

Just drop by your local bookstore over the weekend and have a look. I would
especially point you to page 320, but the rest of the book is equally
excellent. Of course you can certainly decide to bury your head in the
sand, but you won't learn as much that way.

--
Jim Cheshire
Jimco
http://www.jimcoaddins.com
================================
Author of Special Edition
Using Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003
5 Stars on Amazon and B&N
================================
The opinions expressed by me in the
newsgroups are my own opinions and
are in no way associated with my
employer or any other party. Jimco is
not associated in any way with any other
entity.

 

[Kevin Spencer]

Jim, Jim, Jim. I didn't ask for your advice, and certainly don't need it. I
develop Server Controls, Web Services, Windows Services, WebParts, and .Net
executables for a living, and do quite well with it. At least the senior
Microsoft cosultants I have worked with seem to think so. Their opinion
matters to me. Yours does not.

--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
Big things are made up
of lots of little things.

 

[Jim Cheshire]

Kevin,

We're all here to share ideas. That's what I was doing. I'm sorry if you
take insult in that.

--
Jim Cheshire
Jimco
http://www.jimcoaddins.com
================================
Author of Special Edition
Using Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003
5 Stars on Amazon and B&N
================================
The opinions expressed by me in the
newsgroups are my own opinions and
are in no way associated with my
employer or any other party. Jimco is
not associated in any way with any other
entity.

 

[chris leeds]

I just bought it. and since I just suck so badly at the .net stuff and have
failed miserably at every attempt, I also bought this:

Beginning Dynamic Web Sites with ASP.NET Web Matrix

If you have any advice or recommendations, you or Kevin, on how someone with
this particular mental block might get up to speed or at least break the
ice, please don't hesitate!

 

[Jim Cheshire]

Boy, there are a LOT of books out there. I'm not familiar with the one you
mention below. Web Matrix is a really cool product. If you can afford it,
Visual Studio .NET would be great for you because it provides much
additional functionality that Web Matrix doesn't have. However, a
familiarity with Web Matrix will help you when Whidbey (the next VS.NET
version) releases because it allows you to work with inline ASP.NET code in
a similar interface.

The Microsoft Press Developer edition books are great. They have a black
banner on the top and say "Developer" on them. Good books. I have many on
my bookshelf.

Nikhil's book is an excellent addition to your bookshelf. If you'll look at
the "About the Authors" section on the back, you'll see why. If you're
going to buy a book, you can't go wrong with buying one written by someone
who actually wrote the product itself, huh.

--
Jim Cheshire
Jimco
http://www.jimcoaddins.com
================================
Author of Special Edition
Using Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003
5 Stars on Amazon and B&N
================================
The opinions expressed by me in the
newsgroups are my own opinions and
are in no way associated with my
employer or any other party. Jimco is
not associated in any way with any other
entity.

 

[Kevin Spencer]

We're all here to share ideas. That's what I was doing. I'm sorry if you

take insult in that.

Well, buddy, if you look a ways back in this thread, you will see where I
tried to kill it gracefully:

Apparently, we are never going to agree on this topic.

But that wasn't good enough for you. You had to "prove" you're right,. I
would suggest we drop it here.

--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
Big things are made up
of lots of little things.

 

[Jim Cheshire]

There are others here besides us, Kevin. Some of them were reading this
thread and I felt the information concerning templated controls was
important. In fact, Chris purchased the book as a result of this thread
which is great for him because he'll increase his knowledge of developing
server controls exponentially.

I wasn't trying to prove anything. Just sharing knowledge that I have on
this subject. Development topics such as the Framework are incredibly
broad, and there's no possible way for anyone to understand all of it.
Therefore, it's paramount that developers share their knowledge with others.

I hope that clarifies the purpose of my post. I'll let it die there.

--
Jim Cheshire
Jimco
http://www.jimcoaddins.com
================================
Author of Special Edition
Using Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003
5 Stars on Amazon and B&N
================================
The opinions expressed by me in the
newsgroups are my own opinions and
are in no way associated with my
employer or any other party. Jimco is
not associated in any way with any other
entity.

 

[Kevin Spencer]

You are still trying to prove you're right, and thereby contradicting
yourself. You call it knowledge. I call it your opinion.

--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
Big things are made up
of lots of little things.

 

[chris leeds]

that's the way I saw it. ;-)
I also bought the other one because that's how I learned basic web
development; jim Buyens book and a learn front-page visually type book. I
read them simultaneously. one to get going and the other to gain
understanding.
I'm figuring that the .net stuff is going to be significantly tougher. I've
tried getting into it a couple of times with IbuySpy, and the like and
failed at it.

Plus the desktop tools for the mssql database are less than friendly. makes
you miss that stupid php my admin for a MySql, or good old access. ;-)

I'm convinced that the .net situation will be the future of high-end web
dev. so I can't afford to give up on trying to get an understanding.


Thanks again,
chris

 

[Jim Cheshire]

You have to jump in and just start coding, Chris. I'll put it this way. If
you can learn Photoshop (been to your blog <g>), then you can learn ASP.NET.
It's not hard. Just keep your mind open because, as I was saying before,
the technology is HUGE and sharing your knowledge with the developer
community is going to be critical to your success I think.

Check out the ASP.NET newsgroups as well.

--
Jim Cheshire
Jimco
http://www.jimcoaddins.com
================================
Author of Special Edition
Using Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003
5 Stars on Amazon and B&N
================================
The opinions expressed by me in the
newsgroups are my own opinions and
are in no way associated with my
employer or any other party. Jimco is
not associated in any way with any other
entity.