Freeware is not for everyone (Disccusion)

[El Gee]

I guess I am on a roll...

I got into a discussion with some of the more senior members of our
church about $-ware and freeware. One of the Elders said he tried Open
Office (et al) but did not like them. I asked him why, he said
something about the presentation tools were not up to snuff. I asked
him how much he paid for he *legal* copy of M$ Office and he said it was
*free* when he bought his computer several years ago. He since has
*upgraded* to newer versions of Office paying $200 or so each time. To
him it is worth the price (even though he lives on small income), but it
did make me think. *MAYBE* we need to preface our responses (or maybe
make a pro's and con's of freeware) to point neophyte's to so they
understand.

After I chatted with the Elder and told him I was 100%
freeware/open-source (minus my OS on one machine), he was amazed. I
asked him to look to see how much he spends yearly on software. He
admitted to getting quite a bit on E-bay (which after he researched
it...was pirated!) and told him to start going buying software locally
to see what it would cost him. He was shocked to see that he will be
spending a lot of money on legit software.

I think neophytes need to know the the good and bad of freeware and
open-source software before we tell them that they are fantastic. To
some people, it will not be worth the trouble.

</tosses in .02>

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El Gee <><
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No Christ, No Peace

Remove yourhat to reply
Home Page - www.mistergeek.com
Blog - mcwtlg.blogspot.com
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[Mel]

I guess I am on a roll...

....or a troll!

This is the same discussion with a different header:

Payware worth every penny! ;-)

So far their are no easy to use freeware backup/restore solutions for
Windows XP/NTFS.

Ghost 9 ($ware) works right out of the box and is easy to use.

 

[Won Dampchin]

...or a troll!

This is the same discussion with a different header:

Payware worth every penny! ;-)

So far their are no easy to use freeware backup/restore solutions for
Windows XP/NTFS.

Ghost 9 ($ware) works right out of the box and is easy to use.

Ditto re: Acronis True Image (IMHO!)

Regards...

 

[Ben Wylie]

So far their are no easy to use freeware backup/restore solutions for
Windows XP/NTFS.

Actually partimage on the System Rescue CD works fine with this. (If you
want to make a restorable image of your hard drive that is).
http://www.sysresccd.org/

Ben

 

[Mel]

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 15:51:43 GMT, "Ben Wylie" wrote:

Actually partimage on the System Rescue CD works fine with this. (If you
want to make a restorable image of your hard drive that is).
http://www.sysresccd.org/

(quote)
The NTFS (Windows NT File System) is currently not fully supported: this
means you will be able to save an NTFS partition if system files are not
very fragmented, and if system files are not compressed. In this case,
you will be able to save the partition into an image file, and you will
be able to restore it after. If there is a problem when saving, an error
message will be shown and you won't be able to continue. If you have
successfully saved an NTFS partition, you shouldn't have problems as you
restore it (except in the case of bugs). Then the best way is to try to
save a partition to know if it is possible. If not, try to defragment it
with diskeeper or another tool, and try to saving the partition again.
(/quote)

Doesn't leave a warm feeling that you'll be able to restore the image
later.

 

[Semolina Pilchard]

I think neophytes need to know the the good and bad of freeware and
open-source software before we tell them that they are fantastic. To
some people, it will not be worth the trouble.

If you think we should do that, perhaps you'd care to explain the good
and bad of freeware yourself, and how it differs from the good and bad
of commercial software and shareware.

Pricelessware determines what, in the group's opinion, is the best
freeware for any particular purpose. I don't see what else we can do
in addition. Comparisons between the free and $ware examples of the
same type of program seem pretty useless to me. One person likes
OpenOffice, the next wouldn't have it on their machine. The same's
true of Microsoft Office.

It's a useless exercise. We've been through this before. Good
software isn't written by marketing strategy - payware, shareware or
commercial - it's written by good programmers regardless of how they
distribute it.

For me, OpenOffice is fantastic and Microsoft Office is - and has
always been - deficient, overpriced rubbish. YMMV. On the other
hand, I pay the money for Photoshop because I can't find a freeware
program that does all the things it does quite as well, though there
are some excellent bitmap editors available as freeware.

It comes down to preference in the end. There are no rules of thumb
we can set out for newbies.

 

[Joe]

(quote)
The NTFS (Windows NT File System) is currently not fully supported:
this means you will be able to save an NTFS partition if system files
are not very fragmented, and if system files are not compressed. In
this case, you will be able to save the partition into an image file,
and you will be able to restore it after. If there is a problem when
saving, an error message will be shown and you won't be able to
continue. If you have successfully saved an NTFS partition, you
shouldn't have problems as you restore it (except in the case of
bugs). Then the best way is to try to save a partition to know if it
is possible. If not, try to defragment it with diskeeper or another
tool, and try to saving the partition again. (/quote)

Doesn't leave a warm feeling that you'll be able to restore the image
later.

Ghost won't restore windows XP. That is you can restore it to
your hd
without errors, but you won't be able to log in . The only
way I can
do it is by using windows own backup utility.

joe

 

[Mel]

Ghost won't restore windows XP. That is you can restore it to
your hd
without errors, but you won't be able to log in . The only
way I can
do it is by using windows own backup utility.

Did you do the restore using the Preinstallation Environment on the
Ghost 9 CD?

 

[Avrom Pearson]

Some of my favorite freeware are addons to software I only
think of as free. (MSOffice came "free" with an old computer).
m$.02

 

[El Gee]

...or a troll!

This is the same discussion with a different header:

Payware worth every penny! ;-)

So far their are no easy to use freeware backup/restore solutions for
Windows XP/NTFS.

Ghost 9 ($ware) works right out of the box and is easy to use.

I did not start this to get into a discussion about any *particular*
kind of software, jsut to help raise some awareness. I can tell from
the responses to both my OP's that few people seem to care, so I will
not waste any more time.

Troll? Puh-lease.

--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
El Gee <><
Know Christ, Know Peace
No Christ, No Peace

Remove yourhat to reply
Home Page - www.mistergeek.com
Blog - mcwtlg.blogspot.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[El Gee]

If you think we should do that, perhaps you'd care to explain the good
and bad of freeware yourself, and how it differs from the good and bad
of commercial software and shareware.

Pricelessware determines what, in the group's opinion, is the best
freeware for any particular purpose. I don't see what else we can do
in addition. Comparisons between the free and $ware examples of the
same type of program seem pretty useless to me. One person likes
OpenOffice, the next wouldn't have it on their machine. The same's
true of Microsoft Office.

I am not talking about "Pricelessware", I am talking about freeware in
general.

It's a useless exercise. We've been through this before. Good
software isn't written by marketing strategy - payware, shareware or
commercial - it's written by good programmers regardless of how they
distribute it.

I did not know that ACF had been through this before. Sorry for picking
at old wounds.

It comes down to preference in the end. There are no rules of thumb
we can set out for newbies.

I agree, but neo's would not know that

I think you may be missing my point, and it is most likely my fault for
not being very clear. I make it my mission when telling people able
freeware in general about the pro's and con's of it. After I give them
a little caveat, the expectations are more in line with reality

--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
El Gee <><
Know Christ, Know Peace
No Christ, No Peace

Remove yourhat to reply
Home Page - www.mistergeek.com
Blog - mcwtlg.blogspot.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[Helen]

<snip>
I think you may be missing my point, and it is most likely my fault for
not being very clear. I make it my mission when telling people able
freeware in general about the pro's and con's of it. After I give them
a little caveat, the expectations are more in line with reality

--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
El Gee <><
Know Christ, Know Peace
No Christ, No Peace

Touché! Press on. Those uninterested can skip it, while others
may read, learn and make further inquiry.

 

[Semolina Pilchard]

I did not know that ACF had been through this before. Sorry for picking
at old wounds.

Sorry for sounding dismissive. It's just that I don't see where this
can go, other than a comparison of each and every bit of freeware with
other types of ware that do the same job.

I agree, but neo's would not know that

I think you may be missing my point, and it is most likely my fault for
not being very clear. I make it my mission when telling people able
freeware in general about the pro's and con's of it. After I give them
a little caveat, the expectations are more in line with reality

Yes, but how do you do that? What are the pros and cons of freeware
in general? If I was pushed, I could tell you the pros and cons of,
say, Photofiltre against PaintShop Pro, but surely that's in
particular?

I surely am missing your point. If, for instance, you were to say
that freeware is good but limited in comparison with its commercial
equivalents, I'd be inclined to say that was so easily controvertible
in so many cases as to be untrue.

Though I don't spend as much time on freeware as I once did (real life
can be *such* a nuisance) I know the field fairly well and I find it
impossible to generalise about one form of software over another. I
don't think it can be done, really.

Most software appears very good at first. It's only once you have
some real experience of using it that the flaws, bugs and
inconveniences come to the surface. All complex programs have 'em,
without exception. There's no perfect software - it's art as much as
engineering. Commercial and shareware programs are subject to a
similar quantity and seriousness of irritations as freeware ones, in
my experience.

 

[Onno Tasler]

El Gee scribebat:

I make it my mission when telling people able freeware in general about
the pro's and con's of it.

There are none. Freeware just means "it is available for free", nothing
else. You find excellent programs as well as horrible ones, big and small
ones, those with good support and those with none at all, specialised on a
single task and those for multi-purposes.

The only thing you can tell about freeware is this: It is legally given
away for free. Whether or not a program that fits ones desires is available
this free is another question and cannot be answered generally but just
case by case. There is no general "caveat".

bye,

Onno

 

[El Gee]

El Gee scribebat:

There are none. Freeware just means "it is available for free",
nothing else. You find excellent programs as well as horrible ones,
big and small ones, those with good support and those with none at
all, specialised on a single task and those for multi-purposes.

The only thing you can tell about freeware is this: It is legally
given away for free. Whether or not a program that fits ones desires
is available this free is another question and cannot be answered
generally but just case by case. There is no general "caveat".

bye,

Onno

Wow, I was trying to be general. Of course you cannot be overly
specific. There are great pieces of software, both pay and free. I
realize this was thw wrong place to bring this up.

Very sorry to all.

--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
El Gee <><
Know Christ, Know Peace
No Christ, No Peace

Remove yourhat to reply
Home Page - www.mistergeek.com
Blog - mcwtlg.blogspot.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[Semolina Pilchard]

Wow, I was trying to be general. Of course you cannot be overly
specific. There are great pieces of software, both pay and free. I
realize this was thw wrong place to bring this up.

Very sorry to all.

I don't think you asked in the wrong place, El Gee, nor is there any
need for apology. There just don't seem to be any easily identifiable
pros and cons of freeware that you could use to advise someone. The
subject's too wide and varied.

 

[Joe]

Did you do the restore using the Preinstallation Environment on the
Ghost 9 CD?

No, I only used version 7.5 and it worked well in dos untill windows
2000. Maybe it's worth investigating, though .

 

[Ben Wylie]

(quote)
The NTFS (Windows NT File System) is currently not fully supported:
this means you will be able to save an NTFS partition if system files
are not very fragmented, and if system files are not compressed. In
this case, you will be able to save the partition into an image file,
and you will be able to restore it after. If there is a problem when
saving, an error message will be shown and you won't be able to
continue. If you have successfully saved an NTFS partition, you
shouldn't have problems as you restore it (except in the case of
bugs). Then the best way is to try to save a partition to know if it
is possible. If not, try to defragment it with diskeeper or another
tool, and try to saving the partition again. (/quote)

Doesn't leave a warm feeling that you'll be able to restore the image
later.

But it does say once you've managed to back it up you'll be able to restore
it. If there is a problem it will be during the image making process.
However if you're not confident then i guess it's best to use alternatives.

Ben

 

[johnhood]

Ghost won't restore windows XP. That is you can restore it to
your hd
without errors, but you won't be able to log in . The only
way I can
do it is by using windows own backup utility.

joe

Uh, I've been doing it for quite a while.
You need to find the Ghost.exe and Ghost.ini file buried somewhere on the
Ghost CD (I remember it being under the Extra's folder, or something like
that). Copy that to floppy. Boot to Dos and run this version of Ghost.
It backs up and restores NTFS XP partitions quite nicely thank you very
much. I did about 20 laptops and PC's this way.

John H.

 

[nobody]

Freeware can be good, as can shareware. I use both on my eCS system, and
am looking at freeware for my rarely used Win98 partition.


Alan

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