For those in doubt of Microsoft shares...

[Chad Harris]

Upgrade Paths for Vista:

http://microsoft.blognewschannel.co...6/07/30/microsoft-details-vista-upgrade-paths

CH

 

[Chad Harris]

Or could they be a pressing problem?

CH

Are you saying that the dvd's are a burning issue?

 

[jonah]

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 13:51:58 -0600, "Colin Barnhorst"

Oh OK then, ta Colin

Jonah

 

[jonah]

All of this could be automated, but it would require an entire revamp, and
that isn't going to happen. Vista is halfway there, with its hybrid of
upgrade/clean install, but they need to slipstream Update Advisor into the
installation process. Then, instead of asking, the UA could merely advise
that "The following Applications will be uninstalled before Vista
installation will proceed. Press 'Okay' to continue, or 'Exit' to cancel
the Vista installation."

And having an issue with burning an image to a disc is most likely old/dirty
burners, incompatible media or lack of understanding of the process by the
user. I really have a hard time believing MSFT or its contractors are not
capable of burning DVD's in quantity.

snip

Don't think so Mark I have had a lot of trouble burning a fully
working 5384 disk, I know exactly what I am doing. I had (and still
have and regularly use) a Sony U10A Burner which cost me a fortune
£350-00 + import duty as I recall and was the first DVD burner in this
part of the UK to my knowlege. Funnily enough that was the only burner
managed to output a working copy via DVD Decrypter ISO write of all
things. Maybe old and slow is not so bad after all. Everything else
Roxio, Nero couple others and all the rest of the burners I tried
produced various degrees of coasters.



Jonah

 

[Chad Harris]

Jonah--

Make sure you hit these stops:

I would add to these directions, that on Nero 6 and above you can click on
Iso and streamline the steps a bit:

Steps to Burn Iso:
http://iso.snoekonline.com/iso.htm#Nero Burning ROM

Alternative Dual Boot Directions with Screen Shots:
http://www.lifehacker.com/software/...-boot-windows-xp-and-windows-vista-179906.php

*How To Burn the DVD and Dual Boot Vista From Windows XP*

1) If or when you have the dual boot in place in the future, you may want to
save or backup whatever you files/folders, shortcuts you created on the
previous Vista boot so you won't have to go after them again (right now
there is no previousVista boot for you) but there will be the next time
around. You'll able to do that with Vista's backup or just burn to your DVD
burner (Vista also has native DVD burning software).

2) If in the future you have XP on one boot and Vista on the other, boot
into XP and type diskmgmt.msc in the run box and right click the drive where
your current Vista is so that you clean it to put on the future Vista. There
are lots of ways to format, but this one is quick and easy and it works.

3) Open up Nero Burning Rom, One of the selections in Nero on your All
Programs menu. You will drag the mouse accross the Nero Ultra entry in All
Programs first. If you have Nero 6X and 7, (I can't remember how it was in
5X; you will have two dialogue boxes pop up when you click Nero Burning Rom.
The one facing you will say "New Compilation." The only thing you have to
click on that is ISO. The other checkboxes and pulldowns don't need to be
touched to burn the Vista Iso.

Then you'll find a new button on the Upper Right. Click it. Make
absolutely sure when given the option to Close the DVD burning session you
do this so that it will be bootable. Burn at a slow speed--this is an
Operating System Iso so use 8X or even 4X. You don't need to burn any more
slowly and a DVD + gives you an edge in burning accuracy. It's not going
to take that long.

4) Make sure you close the session.

5) There are times when people are unsuccessful at burning the Iso and there
is one more tip I use and it's outlined here:

Get to Device Manager by typing devmgmt.msc in run/win key + pause break or
Rt.click My Computer>Prop>hardware tab>Device Manager if you like 5
stepsinstead of one cmd. If you're set to PMI here change to DMO and if set
toDMO change to PMI:

a.. Click the + in front of IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers
a.. Double Click the Secondary IDE Controller
a.. Click Advanced Settings
a.. Under Device 1  Next to Transfer Mode choose DMA (or vise versa)
a.. Click OK
a.. Reboot your System

6) After you burn the Iso, while you are in XP, the setup for Vista will pop
up on your screen.

Tips on Burning the DVD Iso:

1) Burn slowly. 4X should be fine. Some of this probably varies with the
DVD writer
and the media.

2) Make sure to select an ISO tab if there is one on the burning software,
and make sure to close the session on the burn.

3) Try this tweak on your Windows XP drive and burn from there:

Get to Dev Manager by typing devmgmt.msc in run/win key + pause break or
Rt.click My Computer>Prop>hardware tab>Device Manager if you like 5 steps
instead of one cmd. If you're set to PMI here change to DMO and if set to
DMO change to PMI using these 5 steps:

1) Click the + in front of IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers

2) Double Click the Secondary IDE Controller

3) Click Advanced Settings

4) Under Device 1  Next to Transfer Mode choose DMA (or vise versa)>Click
OK

5) Reboot your System

6) Check your burn with a CRC utility and the links for this are below
including the direct Taco Bell link. It is very classy, sophisticated, and
very Wagner Edstrom/McCann Ericson esque for MSFT to adopt a Taco Bell url
for their public Beta 2 CRC checker. *Rock on Redmond Rednecks.*

Obtain CRC Utility for Vista Beta 2 Here: (The CRC utility is a way to check
the integrity of the ISO Burn which is probably where your problem
lies--it's #1 on the list):

Here's a link:

The CRC utility for Beta 2 is contained here (Scroll down to the bottom
under "Additional Information"

Microsoft® Windows® Software Development Kit (SDK) for Beta 2 of Windows
Vista and WinFX Runtime Components
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...73-F5EA-4B7B-B022-97755838DB94&displaylang=en

Additional Information:

To verify that your download of an ISO file for the Windows SDK Beta 2 build
is not corrupt, download the CRC Utility. (Note: this is not a Microsoft
application. Use at your own risk.)

To run the CRC test, open a command prompt and run the utility. providing it
the name of the file (i.e. crc
c:\6.0.5383.1.1.WindowsSDK_Vista_idw.DVD.Rel.img) The CRC utility will run
two tests on the ISO: it will verify if the ISO is valid, and it will give
the AutoCRC signature for the file. The AutoCRC signature for the Windows
SDK Beta 2 ISO is 0x28434EEF. You should also confirm the size of the ISO is
correct: 1.14 GB (1,229,355,008 bytes).

If it fails any of these three tests, re-download the ISO.

I really like the direct link to it though if you right click CRC here>left
click Properties:
http://tacobell.iexbeta.com/longhorn/crc.exe

Good Luck,

CH

 

[jonah]

Jonah--

Make sure you hit these stops:

I would add to these directions, that on Nero 6 and above you can click on
Iso and streamline the steps a bit:

Yeah Chad I know all about that stuff, been using burning software
since forever. I think my DL was a bit iffy though the CRC check said
it was fine, anyway I reckon DVD Decrypter worked because it is very
simple, and I was able to set the burn speed to 1x. Took forever but I
got a working DVD out of it. Also turning every possible application
off whilst burning helps. DVDs are so critical to burn timing wise the
slightest thing can upset them.

Jonah

 

[Mark D. VandenBeg]

Don't think so Mark I have had a lot of trouble burning a fully
working 5384 disk, I know exactly what I am doing. I had (and still
have and regularly use) a Sony U10A Burner which cost me a fortune
£350-00 + import duty as I recall and was the first DVD burner in this
part of the UK to my knowlege. Funnily enough that was the only burner
managed to output a working copy via DVD Decrypter ISO write of all
things. Maybe old and slow is not so bad after all. Everything else
Roxio, Nero couple others and all the rest of the burners I tried
produced various degrees of coasters.



Jonah

Well, I have been burning discs for a long time too, Jonah, and I have no
doubt that you know how to burn a disc. I certainly didn't mean for anyone
to take it personally.

What then is the explanation? With downloads in the millions, it is
entirely likely that every combination of media, burning application and
burner brand/model was "tested." Not empirically, mind you, but tested
nonetheless. Throw out the obvious of incompatible media. Now, why can
Bill burn a hundred functional copies at high speed while surfing UTube, and
Fred gets a new coaster set with everything turned off and the room empty?
What is the variable that makes some successful and others not successful?
What is the discernable pattern to diagnose the problem? I can't see it
being anything other than equipment/application malfunction or user error.

If you can please explain to me how either the device itself or the burning
application can not burn these files for some other reason than malfunction
or error, I would love to learn, so that I can avoid the issue.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

While I agree, there is the caveat that this is not your father's Windows
cd. The new WIM format could be having an unforseen impact.

 

[Mark D. VandenBeg]

While I agree, there is the caveat that this is not your father's Windows
cd. The new WIM format could be having an unforseen impact.

Point taken, but the argument is broken by Jonah, who ended up using his
oldest burner, not his newest. And by me, (though I have never mentioned
it) since I burned with Nero 6 at 8x speed, which many posters were unable
to achieve.

Still no pattern. I am very puzzled by this, and would really love to know
the results of the testing that is going on, but I am sure those involved
are covered by an NDA, so I won't ask.

 

[Michael Cecil]

Point taken, but the argument is broken by Jonah, who ended up using his
oldest burner, not his newest. And by me, (though I have never mentioned
it) since I burned with Nero 6 at 8x speed, which many posters were unable
to achieve.

Still no pattern. I am very puzzled by this, and would really love to know
the results of the testing that is going on, but I am sure those involved
are covered by an NDA, so I won't ask.

I suspect it has to do with the quality of the discs, not the burner or
software. A music CD or movie DVD can still play if burned with errors
onto a cheap Princo or Ritek disc. A data disc needs to be a perfect
copy. Taiyo Yuden is the brand to look for. This advertisement has been
brought to you by the number 3 and the letter D.

 

[Tinkerer]

IIRC, mine burned at 8x using Nero as well, with no errors that I could
detect.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

There persists in xp failures in moving very large files over some networks
or by usb that are seen by some users and not others. Supposedly this was
addressed in Vista. This problem has that kind of maddening randomness.

I assume MS is going to use Factor Analysis on thier testing results from
next week to try to pin this down.

 

[jonah]

Well, I have been burning discs for a long time too, Jonah, and I have no
doubt that you know how to burn a disc. I certainly didn't mean for anyone
to take it personally.

Hey I was not taking it personally, just an observation

What then is the explanation? With downloads in the millions, it is
entirely likely that every combination of media, burning application and
burner brand/model was "tested." Not empirically, mind you, but tested
nonetheless. Throw out the obvious of incompatible media. Now, why can
Bill burn a hundred functional copies at high speed while surfing UTube, and
Fred gets a new coaster set with everything turned off and the room empty?
What is the variable that makes some successful and others not successful?
What is the discernable pattern to diagnose the problem? I can't see it
being anything other than equipment/application malfunction or user error.

If you can please explain to me how either the device itself or the burning
application can not burn these files for some other reason than malfunction
or error, I would love to learn, so that I can avoid the issue.

Got no idea, I burn loads of DVDs from all sorts of sources
generally using Nero v6.0 and a Plextor SATA Burner, I use Sony or TDK
media and rarely have a problem.

Generally if I had to say why the odd burn fails I would go for
outside influences, power dips and spikes (anti power fluctuation
stuff only attenuates the problem), Random minor errors also occur
that normally would not be a problem but burning a DVD is very timing
critical and can easilly be upset resulting in a duff DVD or even a
coaster. However this is rare these days as PCs are a lot more
efficient since the first burners appeared; in fact the first PC my
ancient Sony U10A was in (1.4 Athalon 256 RAM) it took an hour to burn
a 30 minute DVD and it would fail if I as much as breathed on the
mouse.

The Vista ISO just seemed to be problematical, no idea why, it checked
out fine but would not burn a full working copy until I took the
drastic action of using the slowest burner / PC I own.

So the odd burn failures I put down to random glitches during burning
or maybe the odd duff blank media, but the Vista ISO I have I dunno?
Beats me. Anyway I got it to work eventually which is the important
thing no?



Jonah

 

[Bernie]

Sounds a bit like "defcon" levels but lacking the machismo. I worked on
a Y2K project where fixing potential bugs wasn't called fixing or bug
fixing but "remediation". Now there's a word with high testosterone levels.

 

[Jeff]

Hi,
This may not pertain; but here goes anyhow.
When 5384 came out; I burnt using a free iso burner app;that was recommended
by an MVP; Burncdcc.
Using that; and since;for other iso's- No matter the speed;nor the
medium; has affected the outcome.
Every single burn; flawless And it's freeware!!!

Jeff

 

[Bernie]

I hadn't either but as a developer I know the concept. You put out an
app to beta testers and you get feedback. Some of the feedback concerns
real bugs, like when you click on a button and something is meant to
happen that either doesn't happen or something else entirely happens.
Some of it is awkwardness, like having to click two buttons when the
functions of both could have been implemented in one. Then there are
feature requests which aren't bugs but would make the app more valuable
in some way to users. You have to prioritise which of these gets
development time and when they get development time. Obviously something
that breaks vital functionality has a higher priority than "Could we
have this menu with a pink background?".

Amongst actual bugs you might decide that the work involved in fixing
one is just too much and you need to get the product out the door and
selling to start getting back your investment. So you take that feature
out altogether and put it on the list for the next update or upgrade.
But I've never heard of developers knowingly leaving in a buggy feature
that just doesn't work... although DOS 4 and WinME do come to mind.

 

[Mark D. VandenBeg]

I suspect it has to do with the quality of the discs, not the burner or
software. A music CD or movie DVD can still play if burned with errors
onto a cheap Princo or Ritek disc. A data disc needs to be a perfect
copy. Taiyo Yuden is the brand to look for. This advertisement has been
brought to you by the number 3 and the letter D.

I used a (had to pull the discs out and look, actually) Memorex -R. But
from the same burner, with the same software, I burned MP3 CD's for the car,
and some worked, some didn't and they were all from the same brick of blank
media. I attributed that to bad blank media or a bad burn, and really gave
it no thought ($0.10 down the drain). I pulled the next blank off the
spindle and burned it again and it was fine.

But this doesn't explain Jonah, who, for instance, tried multiple times with
multiple bad discs. The odds of that many consecutive bad disks in a
brick... For him it apparently was the device.

I understand and appreciate what you are saying, but if it indeed is poor
quality blank media, I think many more people would have had problems. I
believe the average consumer isn't comparing disc quality at the store or
are even brand loyal, they are buying on price, only.

Sorry to harp on this, but it is, for me anyways, perplexing.

 

[jonah]

Hi,
This may not pertain; but here goes anyhow.
When 5384 came out; I burnt using a free iso burner app;that was recommended
by an MVP; Burncdcc.
Using that; and since;for other iso's- No matter the speed;nor the
medium; has affected the outcome.
Every single burn; flawless And it's freeware!!!

Jeff

Giz a download url then?

Jonah

 

[Mark D. VandenBeg]

Anyway I got it to work eventually which is the important
thing no?



Jonah

Unless you are trying to explain it to your best friend Don who is using Win
ME with AOL... (absolute truth!)

 

[Jeff]

Hi,
Oops,
Here ya go:: http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/utilities.html

It's about 1/2 way down the page. Sorry

Jeff