Fans etc.

[Wes Newell]

Wes Newell:

How do you know? Facts can be proven. Prove it.

I know because I made all the computer component purchases for these
machines. And I give first hand testimony that it's true. Now you have 2
choices. Either prove I'm a liar or stick it in your ass. And yes, that
was a hostile statement. Can you tell the difference.

 

[String]

Wrong on your cheep ram opinions as well. Cheap Ram is the number 2 cause of
undiagnosable problems If it works for you that's good luck. You will not
find any of that junk in top brands for a reason.
Cheep ram comes out of low quality plants using thin cheap PCBs poor
soldering metals cheap made chips or seconds from good manufactures. I also
instituted a NO cheap ram policy at our shop and our return rate for PS and
Ram went down 4000% labour at the shop made money with higher turnover. The
number one ram maker counterfeit in Europe is hynix and 20% or more is fake
(the Inquire or register last year).
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/182427.cms
Cheap plants don't test chips just assemble and ship same as those piss poor
crappie PS and don't care if they get a bad rep because they will have a new
name next week..
An so you know the GOOD as well as POOR PS are made in those 50 cents an
hour plants so your overpriced labour theory is more bunk to defend poor
power supplies as quality with low labour.
You are a stubborn person like my brother never change your mind or give
ground even in the face of a mountain of proof, 100 people tell him one
thing but some how they are all wrong and he is right.

Good luck Wes,

 

[Mitch Crane]

Heck if he paid $20 he got ripped off, Mine was only $12, $15
shipped.

True. $20 for a hunk of scrap metal some leaky capacitors and some wire is
definitely too much.

 

[Mac Cool]

Wes Newell:

I know because I made all the computer component purchases for these
machines. And I give first hand testimony that it's true. Now you
have 2 choices. Either prove I'm a liar or stick it in your ass. And
yes, that was a hostile statement. Can you tell the difference.

The burden of proof fell on you when you characterized your information
as fact. You cannot 'know' that the failure rates are equivalent unless
you have used an equivalent number of quality and generic power
supplies and kept enviromental and maintenance logs on all of them.
Your anger makes it obvious that you really have no way of supporting
your statements. So I will take option C and do nothing, because nothing
is required of me.

I also want to point out that 'cheap' is really the wrong word, cheap
is relative. There are inexpensive power supplies that are good
quality. The generic PS are the ones that you should beware of, that
are pumped out of factories from god knows where and the 'brand' may
only exist for a production run. --
Mac Cool

 

[eric]

a ps is a ps...

if you buy a pos ps , then you end up with power that may not be as reliable
but
in most circumstances will suffice -- unless you are a business or a
corporation,
it doesn't seem to pay to buy a 'name brand' ps.

of course wattage is a big factor - always good to have 'more than' your
needs
max

i like the idea of the smart ps that adjusts the fan speed dependent on the
temperature .. these are standard now i beleive.

i have yet to get an amd ... i was thinking the amdxp because there is quite
a price dif to hop up to the amd64 ...

of course the ps should be at least a 450 watt for such a machine ? )
normal hd, and cd rom peripherals ..

 

[Mitch Crane]

a ps is a ps...

And a cpu is a cpu and a car is a car and a duck is a duck and a
frankfurter might be a hot dog. They aren't all equal, however.

 

[Bonj]

You've got to remember that a lot of the people who are posting stating that
cheap power supplies have bust on them are probably the sort of people who
are overclocking their machines to a ridiculous degree. It's far too glib to
assume that because the speed it runs at out of the box isn't the maximum
speed it can possibly run at, that you should therefore increase its speed
in order to see better performance, as this often turns out to prevail only
in the short term. There's a difference between maximum speed and maximum
recommended speed - the latter keeps the operation of all components within
stated electronic limits, and thus renders it far less likely to break.

Wrong on your cheep ram opinions as well. Cheap Ram is the number 2 cause
of undiagnosable problems If it works for you that's good luck. You will
not find any of that junk in top brands for a reason.
Cheep ram comes out of low quality plants using thin cheap PCBs poor
soldering metals cheap made chips or seconds from good manufactures. I
also instituted a NO cheap ram policy at our shop and our return rate for
PS and Ram went down 4000% labour at the shop made money with higher
turnover. The number one ram maker counterfeit in Europe is hynix and 20%
or more is fake (the Inquire or register last year).
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/182427.cms
Cheap plants don't test chips just assemble and ship same as those piss
poor crappie PS and don't care if they get a bad rep because they will
have a new name next week..
An so you know the GOOD as well as POOR PS are made in those 50 cents an
hour plants so your overpriced labour theory is more bunk to defend poor
power supplies as quality with low labour.
You are a stubborn person like my brother never change your mind or give
ground even in the face of a mountain of proof, 100 people tell him one
thing but some how they are all wrong and he is right.

Good luck Wes,

 

[Bonj]

No, you infer, I imply, but I wasn't implying anything. I don't know if
changing the power supply fixed his problem or not, I was relating an
experience about temperature.

Yes, but that wasn't the subject, PSUs was... the original subject was
supposed to be fans, but since you just mention temperature in general and
just imply that it's due to the power supply without any mention of fans,
but then renege that you said that when challenged, suggests that this
experience of yours is completely irrelevent...

 

[Bonj]

There's really no need to replace the stock A64 cooler. The HS itself is
very good (unlike coolers for the XP line). It works well with the stock
fan, but I replaced the little 70x15mm fan with a 70->80mm fan adapter and
installed an 80x25mm low speed fan just to make it quieter. Can't even
hear it now. If you want max cooling just throw an 80mm high speed fan on
it with a fan control.

No, I've discovered this since going to a few PC shops and finding out that
'other better quality ones' don't really exist in that way.... plus the
warranty is also 3 years so it makes sense to keep it intact.

You don't want to add an exhaust fan unless you first add 1 or 2 intake
fans. In reality, all you shoukld need to add would be 1 intake fan.

I've got an intake fan I can harvest from my 32-bit machine that's already
got an extra fan (in line with the chip but on the opposite side of the case
and with a funky 'air tube' to help the air from the chip down the tube
straight out of the case) - so in my 64 machine I can have an intake fan at
the front and an exhaust fan at the back.

The
PSU already has an exhaust fan where it should be, at the top of case.

The PSU apparently has 'dual black fans'.

Adding all exhaust fans will create stress, noise, and without an intake
fan is just not good.

I'll only have one, near the bottom, I can see the logic to that.

Cheers

 

[Bonj]

I'm getting the distinct impression that you weren't looking for sound

advice, but for someone to validate your own opinion.

Er -... yes, correct, thanks!

Good luck with your
$200 water cooling kit and your $20 PSU.

Well I haven't gone for any '$' cooling kit in the end, but I've heard more
sound advice telling me that there shouldn't be anything wrong with a cheap
power supply, than I have heard bad advice telling me to steer clear from
it... but cheers anyway.

 

[Bonj]

You're not an IT person, you're a salesman!

Wrong on your cheep ram opinions as well. Cheap Ram is the number 2 cause
of undiagnosable problems If it works for you that's good luck. You will
not find any of that junk in top brands for a reason.
Cheep ram comes out of low quality plants using thin cheap PCBs poor
soldering metals cheap made chips or seconds from good manufactures. I
also instituted a NO cheap ram policy at our shop and our return rate for
PS and Ram went down 4000% labour at the shop made money with higher
turnover. The number one ram maker counterfeit in Europe is hynix and 20%
or more is fake (the Inquire or register last year).
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/182427.cms
Cheap plants don't test chips just assemble and ship same as those piss
poor crappie PS and don't care if they get a bad rep because they will
have a new name next week..
An so you know the GOOD as well as POOR PS are made in those 50 cents an
hour plants so your overpriced labour theory is more bunk to defend poor
power supplies as quality with low labour.
You are a stubborn person like my brother never change your mind or give
ground even in the face of a mountain of proof, 100 people tell him one
thing but some how they are all wrong and he is right.

Good luck Wes,

 

[Bonj]

Right... but you wouldn't get a BMW with a 3.6 litre engine and a Yugo with
a 5 litre engine...

 

[String]

I regret you have come to that assumption.
I have not promoted or recommend ANY! products whatsoever, simply a caution
to check products for quality before you part with your hard earned money
and not to take an over zealous persons word on some cheap junk being all
info you need.
TTFN

You're not an IT person, you're a salesman!

 

[Mitch Crane]

Well I haven't gone for any '$' cooling kit in the end, but I've heard
more sound advice telling me that there shouldn't be anything wrong
with a cheap power supply, than I have heard bad advice telling me to
steer clear from it... but cheers anyway.

Ok. Good luck with that. Oh, and don't wear seatbelts. You're better off
being thrown clear of the accident.

 

[Mac Cool]

Bonj:

Yes, but that wasn't the subject, PSUs was... the original subject
was supposed to be fans, but since you just mention temperature in
general and just imply that it's due to the power supply without any
mention of fans, but then renege that you said that when challenged,
suggests that this experience of yours is completely irrelevent...

I won't waste energy bickering with you. You asked for advice and received
advice. Presumably you have your own money to spend and the final
decisions and consequences of, will be yours.

 

[Wes Newell]

The burden of proof fell on you when you characterized your information as
fact.

There is no way to prove it other than my word. I could give you all the
service orders for every one of our customers (bring a semi) and let you
go through them for PSU replacements. But then you could claim I didn't
give you all of them. So what you get is sworned testimony that it is
fact, and contrary to what you think, you must prove otherwise. You could
have very well driven to the store last night and window shopped. Prove
it. Get the point of what you are asking. get real.

I also want to point out that 'cheap' is really the wrong word, cheap is
relative. There are inexpensive power supplies that are good quality.
The generic PS are the ones that you should beware of, that are pumped
out of factories from god knows where and the 'brand' may only exist for
a production run. --
Mac Cool

Yep, there's probably some crap ones out there, and there's probably some
crap expensive ones out there too.

 

[Mitch Crane]

Yep, there's probably some crap ones out there, and there's probably some
crap expensive ones out there too.

There no profit in crap expensive ones unless maybe you built a reputation
making good ones first so people would pay more due to your great
reputation as a quality manufacturer and then you flooded the market with
crap. That wouldn't be a very smart business plan, though.

On the other hand, if you make some cheap crap people will buy it just
because it's cheap. And since there's no reputation to build (other than a
bad one) you can just keep changing your name.

 

[Bonj]

Was joking.

I regret you have come to that assumption.
I have not promoted or recommend ANY! products whatsoever, simply a caution
to check products for quality before you part with your hard earned money
and not to take an over zealous persons word on some cheap junk being all
info you need.
TTFN

 

[Bonj]

Hello
I have ordered a AMD Athlon 64 2800+ 1.8GHz chip and an Elite K8M800-M2 Skt
754 motherboard for it, with the intention of building up a 64-bit machine
for general stuff like games, programming etc. I've also ordered a fairly
cheap (but powerful - 500W) power supply off ebuyer for it.

Apparently the chip comes with a heatsink and fan. The power supply is the
cheapest 500W one on ebuyer, but it comes with "dual fans".

Question really, is does anybody reckon I should have any worries about this
configuration, and should I be thinking about getting any extra fans/cooling
systems etc.? If so what sort, where to put them, etc.?

OK, I built it up, and it runs fine. I put one exhaust fan at the back
below the motherboard, and an intake fan at the front. I also drilled an
array of holes in the front of the case to act as an air intake grill to
maximise the effectiveness of the front fan. I built it up, and it
worked fine first time. The (cheap) PSU has got two good chunky fans,
and doesn't make too much noise. The only slight concern was that one of
the PSU's fans is sticking out it's so big, so all the wires are bunched
up against it, but I've sort of managed to ram them in between the
drives giving it a bit more space. But the BIOS claims the chip
temperature to be 41c, which is pretty good - it's using the stock
heatsink and fan.

 

[Wes Newell]

But the BIOS claims the chip temperature to be 41c, which
is pretty good - it's using the stock heatsink and fan.

Contrary to what most people think, the bios does put a considerable load
on the CPU. Check it at idle in the OS. I can reboot and watch the temps
rise from what they were with the OS running. They go up about 6-8C with
the bios running.