Ways to keep my mid-tower computer cooler when gaming?

[ANTant]

Hello!

I have a dilemma. I seem to have an overheating problem with my computer
setup when I play games (e.g., World of Warcraft, Battlefield 1942,
Half-Life 2, etc. Windows would crash with mostly blue screens (random
errors like PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA (50) with fwdrv.sys (still get
crashes without Kerio's Personal Firewall v2.1.5),
KERNEL_MODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED (8e) with ntkrnlpa.exe, BugCheck 50,
{fffffff1, 0, 805b0109, 0} with ati2mtag.sys ( ati2mtag+d0d49 ),
BugCheck 8E, {c0000005, c458bf4, b7df7938, 0} with portcls.sys (
portcls!CPortPinWavePci::GetKsAudioPosition+1c ), BugCheck 7E,
{c0000005, 1d58c920, f7a5fcb0, f7a5f9ac} with win32k.sys (
win32k!ESTROBJ::vInit+357 ), etc. The crashes can take 30 minutes to
hours to happen.

I have NO problems when I am not gaming, using 3D (openGL and Direct3D)
screen savers, running atitools to stress test my ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
AIW (128 MB) card for hours, cpuburn by itself for hours (highest was
154 F/67.8 C degrees, memtest86 for hours (all passed), etc. To me, it
sounds like a combination of everything in game makes my computer too
hot instead of individual compontent. What else can be getting hot
beside the video card and motherboard during gaming? I doubt a sound
card could. I have a HDD cooler so HDDs should be fine. You can see my
full detailed system specifications at
http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm/about/computers.txt (primary
computer -- note that I have old stuff like old Quantum HDDs, CD burner,
etc.).

I notice my system would become unstable if my ASUS K8V SE Deluxe
motherboard's temperature was at about and over 110 F/43 C degrees.

Another problem is that my small room is always warm due to the location
and it is upstair. I do not get sufficient cooling from the air
condition. Opened window is useful when the weather is cool, but useless
when it is warm or in a middle of a heat wave (100+ F/37.7 C degrees
outside!). Big fans for my room and myself don't really help much
either.

Would getting a Thermaltake Silent Boost K8
(http://www.thermaltake.com/coolers/venus/rs/a1838.htm) to cool the
AMD Athlon 64 CPU down help at all? Again, going up to 154 with cpuburn
did not have any problems. However, BIOS and ASUS PC Probe say 140+
F/60+ C degrees is overheating so I might as well get a better CPU
cooler. I was thinking of readding my old squirrel fan blower (used it
for my old Voodoo2 card that kept overheating years ago) in the PC case,
but would it help and where would I put it? Would these be enough? I
already have Arctic Cooling VGA Silencer revision 2 for the video card
(had dot problems in DOOM 3 due to heat issue), a 3 fan HDD Peeze
cooler, two 80 mm case fans, and an Antec Model SL400 (400 watts; 80mm
and 92mm fans) power supply. Isn't this enough? I have two front vents
(HDD cooler in the middle of the full-tower ATX case and at the bottom
that is part of the case). The power supply fans blow out the heat in
the back (1/4th down from the top of the case and feels like a heater
(not hot; very warm though)), and there is another vent at the top (no
air blow out -- maybe a good place for the squirrel fan?) Note: I have
had this case since July 1998 and I never had problems with P2 300 Mhz,
P3 600 Mhz, and Athlon XP 2200+ setups before getting an Athlon 64
3200+.

The fans speed to be working normally according to ASUS PC Probe and
BIOS:
-CPU Fan (the one from the retail CPU box): 59xx
-Chassis Fan: 2556 (forgot which fan is connected to this -- don't
have a chassis fan)
-Power fan is not hooked up to the sensors, but I know it is blowing.
-Note: Voltage graphs looked stable when gaming and not.

Any suggestions on how to make my system cooler during gaming? I don't
want to go overboard like getting water cooling system. I need to fix it
before summer comes alone and so I can get back into gaming. Thank you
in advance.
--
"Be thine enemy an ant, see in him an elephant." --Turkish Proverb
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ The Ant Farm: http://antfarm.ma.cx
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net (offline)
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )

 

[f/fgeorge]

Hello!

I have a dilemma. I seem to have an overheating problem with my computer
setup when I play games (e.g., World of Warcraft, Battlefield 1942,
Half-Life 2, etc. Windows would crash with mostly blue screens (random
errors like PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA (50) with fwdrv.sys (still get
crashes without Kerio's Personal Firewall v2.1.5),
KERNEL_MODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED (8e) with ntkrnlpa.exe, BugCheck 50,
{fffffff1, 0, 805b0109, 0} with ati2mtag.sys ( ati2mtag+d0d49 ),
BugCheck 8E, {c0000005, c458bf4, b7df7938, 0} with portcls.sys (
portcls!CPortPinWavePci::GetKsAudioPosition+1c ), BugCheck 7E,
{c0000005, 1d58c920, f7a5fcb0, f7a5f9ac} with win32k.sys (
win32k!ESTROBJ::vInit+357 ), etc. The crashes can take 30 minutes to
hours to happen.

I have NO problems when I am not gaming, using 3D (openGL and Direct3D)
screen savers, running atitools to stress test my ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
AIW (128 MB) card for hours, cpuburn by itself for hours (highest was
154 F/67.8 C degrees, memtest86 for hours (all passed), etc. To me, it
sounds like a combination of everything in game makes my computer too
hot instead of individual compontent. What else can be getting hot
beside the video card and motherboard during gaming? I doubt a sound
card could. I have a HDD cooler so HDDs should be fine. You can see my
full detailed system specifications at
http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm/about/computers.txt (primary
computer -- note that I have old stuff like old Quantum HDDs, CD burner,
etc.).

I notice my system would become unstable if my ASUS K8V SE Deluxe
motherboard's temperature was at about and over 110 F/43 C degrees.

Another problem is that my small room is always warm due to the location
and it is upstair. I do not get sufficient cooling from the air
condition. Opened window is useful when the weather is cool, but useless
when it is warm or in a middle of a heat wave (100+ F/37.7 C degrees
outside!). Big fans for my room and myself don't really help much
either.

Would getting a Thermaltake Silent Boost K8
(http://www.thermaltake.com/coolers/venus/rs/a1838.htm) to cool the
AMD Athlon 64 CPU down help at all? Again, going up to 154 with cpuburn
did not have any problems. However, BIOS and ASUS PC Probe say 140+
F/60+ C degrees is overheating so I might as well get a better CPU
cooler. I was thinking of readding my old squirrel fan blower (used it
for my old Voodoo2 card that kept overheating years ago) in the PC case,
but would it help and where would I put it? Would these be enough? I
already have Arctic Cooling VGA Silencer revision 2 for the video card
(had dot problems in DOOM 3 due to heat issue), a 3 fan HDD Peeze
cooler, two 80 mm case fans, and an Antec Model SL400 (400 watts; 80mm
and 92mm fans) power supply. Isn't this enough? I have two front vents
(HDD cooler in the middle of the full-tower ATX case and at the bottom
that is part of the case). The power supply fans blow out the heat in
the back (1/4th down from the top of the case and feels like a heater
(not hot; very warm though)), and there is another vent at the top (no
air blow out -- maybe a good place for the squirrel fan?) Note: I have
had this case since July 1998 and I never had problems with P2 300 Mhz,
P3 600 Mhz, and Athlon XP 2200+ setups before getting an Athlon 64
3200+.

The fans speed to be working normally according to ASUS PC Probe and
BIOS:
-CPU Fan (the one from the retail CPU box): 59xx
-Chassis Fan: 2556 (forgot which fan is connected to this -- don't
have a chassis fan)
-Power fan is not hooked up to the sensors, but I know it is blowing.
-Note: Voltage graphs looked stable when gaming and not.

Any suggestions on how to make my system cooler during gaming? I don't
want to go overboard like getting water cooling system. I need to fix it
before summer comes alone and so I can get back into gaming. Thank you
in advance.

Make sure their is a fan in BOTH the front of the case blowing INTO
the case and a fan in the rear of the case blowing OUT!
This will help alot, next is get a can of compressed air and open the
case, you need to do to this to install the fans anyway, and blow it
out, keep the can upright and the machine OFF AND UNPLUGGED during
this process. I clean mine in the driveway.

Seeing as it is an older case you may end up with a new case, the
older ones did not take into account the fact that newer chips would
need more cooling, they just didn't know.
You COULD try leaving the side off and putting a floor type fan
blowing into the open side, but this is a temporary fix at best, it
may even make things worse because cases are designed to breathe in
certain ways, with the side ON!

 

[David Maynard]

Hello!

I have a dilemma. I seem to have an overheating problem with my computer
setup when I play games (e.g., World of Warcraft, Battlefield 1942,
Half-Life 2, etc. Windows would crash with mostly blue screens (random
errors like PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA (50) with fwdrv.sys (still get
crashes without Kerio's Personal Firewall v2.1.5),
KERNEL_MODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED (8e) with ntkrnlpa.exe, BugCheck 50,
{fffffff1, 0, 805b0109, 0} with ati2mtag.sys ( ati2mtag+d0d49 ),
BugCheck 8E, {c0000005, c458bf4, b7df7938, 0} with portcls.sys (
portcls!CPortPinWavePci::GetKsAudioPosition+1c ), BugCheck 7E,
{c0000005, 1d58c920, f7a5fcb0, f7a5f9ac} with win32k.sys (
win32k!ESTROBJ::vInit+357 ), etc. The crashes can take 30 minutes to
hours to happen.

I have NO problems when I am not gaming, using 3D (openGL and Direct3D)
screen savers, running atitools to stress test my ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
AIW (128 MB) card for hours, cpuburn by itself for hours (highest was
154 F/67.8 C degrees, memtest86 for hours (all passed), etc. To me, it
sounds like a combination of everything in game makes my computer too
hot instead of individual compontent.

Yes, except 'individual component' includes inside the chip itself. By that
I mean, CPU burn is not exercising everything in the CPU at the same time
and it's also not working the AGP port.

Your measured temp is close to the maximum rating and temp monitors are not
100% accurate to begin with. It's too hot.

What else can be getting hot
beside the video card and motherboard during gaming? I doubt a sound
card could. I have a HDD cooler so HDDs should be fine. You can see my
full detailed system specifications at
http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm/about/computers.txt (primary
computer -- note that I have old stuff like old Quantum HDDs, CD burner,
etc.).

I notice my system would become unstable if my ASUS K8V SE Deluxe
motherboard's temperature was at about and over 110 F/43 C degrees.

Another problem is that my small room is always warm due to the location
and it is upstair. I do not get sufficient cooling from the air
condition. Opened window is useful when the weather is cool, but useless
when it is warm or in a middle of a heat wave (100+ F/37.7 C degrees
outside!). Big fans for my room and myself don't really help much
either.

Would getting a Thermaltake Silent Boost K8
(http://www.thermaltake.com/coolers/venus/rs/a1838.htm) to cool the
AMD Athlon 64 CPU down help at all? Again, going up to 154 with cpuburn
did not have any problems. However, BIOS and ASUS PC Probe say 140+
F/60+ C degrees is overheating so I might as well get a better CPU
cooler. I was thinking of readding my old squirrel fan blower (used it
for my old Voodoo2 card that kept overheating years ago) in the PC case,
but would it help and where would I put it? Would these be enough? I
already have Arctic Cooling VGA Silencer revision 2 for the video card

Excellent choice because it exhausts out the case.

(had dot problems in DOOM 3 due to heat issue), a 3 fan HDD Peeze
cooler,

Those don't move enough air to aid in case ventilation and can actually
hurt case airflow depending on where the hard drive is located (see below
about case airlfow)

two 80 mm case fans,

Located where and how much CFM?

and an Antec Model SL400 (400 watts; 80mm
and 92mm fans) power supply.

Good choice.

Isn't this enough? I have two front vents

Vents located where on the front? Fan mount vents or just holes?

(HDD cooler in the middle of the full-tower ATX case and at the bottom
that is part of the case). The power supply fans blow out the heat in
the back (1/4th down from the top of the case and feels like a heater
(not hot; very warm though)), and there is another vent at the top (no
air blow out

An open vent can be a problem for case airflow.

-- maybe a good place for the squirrel fan?) Note: I have
had this case since July 1998 and I never had problems with P2 300 Mhz,
P3 600 Mhz, and Athlon XP 2200+ setups before getting an Athlon 64
3200+.

The fans speed to be working normally according to ASUS PC Probe and
BIOS:
-CPU Fan (the one from the retail CPU box): 59xx
-Chassis Fan: 2556 (forgot which fan is connected to this -- don't
have a chassis fan)
-Power fan is not hooked up to the sensors, but I know it is blowing.
-Note: Voltage graphs looked stable when gaming and not.

Any suggestions on how to make my system cooler during gaming? I don't
want to go overboard like getting water cooling system. I need to fix it
before summer comes alone and so I can get back into gaming. Thank you
in advance.

The question you probably can't answer is, what is your internal case temp
(not motherboard or 'system' temp)?

Unfortunately you didn't give what the case actually is, other that simply
a full tower ATX and that it goes back to 1998, but the date causes me to
suspect case cooling because those old ATX towers usually have vents all
over the place and poor case fan location.

Why are vents a problem rather than a help? Because you can't get good case
cross flow when the fans can draw air from the nearest open hole instead of
pulling it across the case. And the situation is aggravated by your warm room.

Where are the two case fans located? At the rear 'top' or right there where
the CPU is? And they're exhausting outwards? Or is one or more a front fan
(which is almost useless in an old style tower)? And not all 80mm fans are
the same. How much air do your '80mm' fans move? As a rough measure, if
they're relatively quiet then they're probably not moving enough air for
modern, high power, systems (which is why newer cases use 90mm, or even
120mm, fans).

Unfortunately, I can't give you an easy answer for the existing case
because I can't see it but when you look at it think of where the heat is,
where the fans are, and how the air will move keeping in mind that the fans
will suck air from the nearest hole. In general you want to get the heat
out of the case in the shortest path (which is why modern cases usually
have a large exhaust fan on the back right where the CPU is located and, if
there aren't holes all over the place, they'll draw air from the front vent
and over the whole system).

 

[ANTant]

I have a dilemma. I seem to have an overheating problem with my computer

Make sure their is a fan in BOTH the front of the case blowing INTO
the case and a fan in the rear of the case blowing OUT!

Hmmm, the only intake air I know is the HDD cooler since placing a tissue
over its vent holds it. However, it is not a strong intake. Can I use a
regular 80mm fan for the bottom front vent? The only outgoing air ouput
is in the rear and from the power supply. Are you saying I need to get
another 80mm fan for it?

This will help alot, next is get a can of compressed air and open the
case, you need to do to this to install the fans anyway, and blow it
out, keep the can upright and the machine OFF AND UNPLUGGED during
this process. I clean mine in the driveway.

Yes, I clean this once a year or two depending on the major hardware
upgrades.

Seeing as it is an older case you may end up with a new case, the
older ones did not take into account the fact that newer chips would
need more cooling, they just didn't know.

Hmmm. Got any examples of the full-tower ATX case I should be looking
at? I belive I have a "Green Computer" brand, but then I think it is
a generic brand since I was unable to find this specific case online.

You COULD try leaving the side off and putting a floor type fan
blowing into the open side, but this is a temporary fix at best, it
may even make things worse because cases are designed to breathe in
certain ways, with the side ON!

Yeah, and cause more dust into the case which I want to avoid!
--
"Be thine enemy an ant, see in him an elephant." --Turkish Proverb
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ The Ant Farm: http://antfarm.ma.cx
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net (offline)
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )

 

[ANTant]

I have a dilemma. I seem to have an overheating problem with my computer

Yes, except 'individual component' includes inside the chip itself. By that
I mean, CPU burn is not exercising everything in the CPU at the same time
and it's also not working the AGP port.

Are you sure? Cpuburn (http://pages.sbcglobal.net/redelm/ -- I used k7 one)
made the CPU temperature a lot hotter than gaming and other stuff. What do
you suggest to stress test only the CPU then?

What's another way to stress test the CPU and AGP at the same time without
gaming? Is there a liveCD/bootable CD that does this? I don't want have to
install another OS just to test this.

Your measured temp is close to the maximum rating and temp monitors are not
100% accurate to begin with. It's too hot.

Hmm, OK.

Excellent choice because it exhausts out the case.

Cool. That only fixes my DOOM 3's dots problem.

Those don't move enough air to aid in case ventilation and can actually
hurt case airflow depending on where the hard drive is located (see below
about case airlfow)

Hmmm, OK.

Located where and how much CFM?

I don't remember. I haven't checked since September 2004. What's CFM?
Is that RPM? AFAIK, I am using regular 80mm case fans.

Good choice.

Good. I had to get this because of my previosu upgrade before Athlon 64
upgrade. Radeon 9800 Pro AIW sucked all the power and made my third HDD
hang.

Vents located where on the front? Fan mount vents or just holes?

Just holes at the bottom. I think the HDD fan does have small intakes
(can hold a light tissue), but not enough.

An open vent can be a problem for case airflow.

Hmm... Should I block them? Put another fan behind it to blow out?

The question you probably can't answer is, what is your internal case temp
(not motherboard or 'system' temp)?

I don't know how hot that is since I only have two sensors: CPU and
motherboard. I guess I would need to get a therometer for it which I
don't have right now.

Unfortunately you didn't give what the case actually is, other that simply
a full tower ATX and that it goes back to 1998, but the date causes me to
suspect case cooling because those old ATX towers usually have vents all
over the place and poor case fan location.

AFAIK, it is called "Green Computer". I couldn't find anything about it
online. I am going to assume it is a generic case.

Why are vents a problem rather than a help? Because you can't get good case
cross flow when the fans can draw air from the nearest open hole instead of
pulling it across the case. And the situation is aggravated by your warm room.

So, should I get a bunch of fans for every vents I have on this case? So,
front vents get intake. Rear get outtakes? I wonder if that will be enough to
cool my computer down.

Where are the two case fans located? At the rear 'top' or right there where
the CPU is? And they're exhausting outwards? Or is one or more a front fan
(which is almost useless in an old style tower)? And not all 80mm fans are
the same. How much air do your '80mm' fans move? As a rough measure, if
they're relatively quiet then they're probably not moving enough air for
modern, high power, systems (which is why newer cases use 90mm, or even
120mm, fans).

I am not sure where they are located and how fast. I do recall I had to
get old ones replaced because they got noisy after a year or more. I am
trying to avoid getting noisy fans. My powersupply fans are noisy enough.

Unfortunately, I can't give you an easy answer for the existing case
because I can't see it but when you look at it think of where the heat is,
where the fans are, and how the air will move keeping in mind that the fans
will suck air from the nearest hole. In general you want to get the heat
out of the case in the shortest path (which is why modern cases usually
have a large exhaust fan on the back right where the CPU is located and, if
there aren't holes all over the place, they'll draw air from the front vent
and over the whole system).

OK, I will have to think about the air flow design. There are no vents on
the sides of the case. I am thinking of adding intake 80mm case fans for the
front side and have the rear fans do the outtake behind the vents.

Maybe I need a new full-tower ATX case (I was hoping I didn't need to
buy one when I got this Athlon 64 system). What do you think?
--
"Be thine enemy an ant, see in him an elephant." --Turkish Proverb
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ The Ant Farm: http://antfarm.ma.cx
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net (offline)
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )

 

[f/fgeorge]

Hmmm, the only intake air I know is the HDD cooler since placing a tissue
over its vent holds it. However, it is not a strong intake. Can I use a
regular 80mm fan for the bottom front vent? The only outgoing air ouput
is in the rear and from the power supply. Are you saying I need to get
another 80mm fan for it?
yes

Yes, I clean this once a year or two depending on the major hardware
upgrades.
good, lots of people don't


Hmmm. Got any examples of the full-tower ATX case I should be looking
at? I belive I have a "Green Computer" brand, but then I think it is
a generic brand since I was unable to find this specific case online.

go to the local computer store and look at the cases they have, you
can get a good one for @$50.00 with power supply. More money often
just means a better power supply and more case options, most of which
you will never use.

Yeah, and cause more dust into the case which I want to avoid!

true but it might give you a test to see if cooling is the issue.

 

[Wes Newell]

Any suggestions on how to make my system cooler during gaming? I don't
want to go overboard like getting water cooling system. I need to fix it
before summer comes alone and so I can get back into gaming. Thank you
in advance.

You shouldn't need more than 2 case fans as long as they are mounted
properly. Most people can get by with only 1 if the PSU fan is high
volume. With only one fan, it ahould be mounted in the lower front of the
case. You can double the cfm (cubic feet per minute) by making sure there
isn't anything restricting the intake of the fan and that ribbon cables
aren't blocking the airflow inside the case. Most cases front fan intakes
are blocked by metal where the fan mounts and then the front cover also
restricts it more by not having enough holes or cutouts in the plastic to
allow air to get to the intake. Cut out all the metal in front of the fan
hole so theres nothing directly in front of the fan. Next, mod the front
cover to allow more air to get to it. Both of these actions are critical
for proper airflow. Using 2 fans, the other should be an exhaust fan at
the top rear of the case. And if the rear exhaust fan is more than 50%
blocked, you should open it up more too. A good test of case cooling is to
check the temps with the side cover on vs. off. There shouldn't be more
than a few C difference.

 

[Wayner]

Hello!

I have a dilemma. I seem to have an overheating problem with my computer
setup when I play games (e.g., World of Warcraft, Battlefield 1942,
Half-Life 2, etc. Windows would crash with mostly blue screens (random
errors like PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA (50) with fwdrv.sys (still get
crashes without Kerio's Personal Firewall v2.1.5),
KERNEL_MODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED (8e) with ntkrnlpa.exe, BugCheck 50,
{fffffff1, 0, 805b0109, 0} with ati2mtag.sys ( ati2mtag+d0d49 ),
BugCheck 8E, {c0000005, c458bf4, b7df7938, 0} with portcls.sys (
portcls!CPortPinWavePci::GetKsAudioPosition+1c ), BugCheck 7E,
{c0000005, 1d58c920, f7a5fcb0, f7a5f9ac} with win32k.sys (
win32k!ESTROBJ::vInit+357 ), etc. The crashes can take 30 minutes to
hours to happen.

I have NO problems when I am not gaming, using 3D (openGL and Direct3D)
screen savers, running atitools to stress test my ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
AIW (128 MB) card for hours, cpuburn by itself for hours (highest was
154 F/67.8 C degrees, memtest86 for hours (all passed), etc. To me, it
sounds like a combination of everything in game makes my computer too
hot instead of individual compontent. What else can be getting hot
beside the video card and motherboard during gaming? I doubt a sound
card could. I have a HDD cooler so HDDs should be fine. You can see my
full detailed system specifications at
http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm/about/computers.txt (primary
computer -- note that I have old stuff like old Quantum HDDs, CD burner,
etc.).

I notice my system would become unstable if my ASUS K8V SE Deluxe
motherboard's temperature was at about and over 110 F/43 C degrees.

Another problem is that my small room is always warm due to the location
and it is upstair. I do not get sufficient cooling from the air
condition. Opened window is useful when the weather is cool, but useless
when it is warm or in a middle of a heat wave (100+ F/37.7 C degrees
outside!). Big fans for my room and myself don't really help much
either.

Would getting a Thermaltake Silent Boost K8
(http://www.thermaltake.com/coolers/venus/rs/a1838.htm) to cool the
AMD Athlon 64 CPU down help at all? Again, going up to 154 with cpuburn
did not have any problems. However, BIOS and ASUS PC Probe say 140+
F/60+ C degrees is overheating so I might as well get a better CPU
cooler. I was thinking of readding my old squirrel fan blower (used it
for my old Voodoo2 card that kept overheating years ago) in the PC case,
but would it help and where would I put it? Would these be enough? I
already have Arctic Cooling VGA Silencer revision 2 for the video card
(had dot problems in DOOM 3 due to heat issue), a 3 fan HDD Peeze
cooler, two 80 mm case fans, and an Antec Model SL400 (400 watts; 80mm
and 92mm fans) power supply. Isn't this enough? I have two front vents
(HDD cooler in the middle of the full-tower ATX case and at the bottom
that is part of the case). The power supply fans blow out the heat in
the back (1/4th down from the top of the case and feels like a heater
(not hot; very warm though)), and there is another vent at the top (no
air blow out -- maybe a good place for the squirrel fan?) Note: I have
had this case since July 1998 and I never had problems with P2 300 Mhz,
P3 600 Mhz, and Athlon XP 2200+ setups before getting an Athlon 64
3200+.

The fans speed to be working normally according to ASUS PC Probe and
BIOS:
-CPU Fan (the one from the retail CPU box): 59xx
-Chassis Fan: 2556 (forgot which fan is connected to this -- don't
have a chassis fan)
-Power fan is not hooked up to the sensors, but I know it is blowing.
-Note: Voltage graphs looked stable when gaming and not.

Any suggestions on how to make my system cooler during gaming? I don't
want to go overboard like getting water cooling system. I need to fix it
before summer comes alone and so I can get back into gaming. Thank you
in advance.
--
"Be thine enemy an ant, see in him an elephant." --Turkish Proverb
/\___/\
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\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )

Try taking the side of the case off?

 

[kony]

Are you sure? Cpuburn (http://pages.sbcglobal.net/redelm/ -- I used k7 one)
made the CPU temperature a lot hotter than gaming and other stuff. What do
you suggest to stress test only the CPU then?

The goal should not be to try tackling one limited
gaming-crash scenario. Rather you should ensure ALL parts
of system remain cool enough per that part's extended
full-load condition. You seem to be taking a backwards
approach to this, trying to backwards troubleshoot the
problem before ever having had system set up properly in the
first place.

What's another way to stress test the CPU and AGP at the same time without
gaming? Is there a liveCD/bootable CD that does this? I don't want have to
install another OS just to test this.

Forget about tests for the time being.
Focus on basics like airflow... does the system have it in
sufficient quantities? Does the case have suitable intake
and exhaust areas, rather than stamped-in-metal, tiny holes
that impeded flow too much?

Good. I had to get this because of my previosu upgrade before Athlon 64
upgrade. Radeon 9800 Pro AIW sucked all the power and made my third HDD
hang.




Just holes at the bottom. I think the HDD fan does have small intakes
(can hold a light tissue), but not enough.

Hmm... Should I block them? Put another fan behind it to blow out?

I don't know how hot that is since I only have two sensors: CPU and
motherboard. I guess I would need to get a therometer for it which I
don't have right now.

So, should I get a bunch of fans for every vents I have on this case? So,
front vents get intake. Rear get outtakes? I wonder if that will be enough to
cool my computer down.

<snip, snip>

First I admit I didn't read the whole thread... was rather
verbose and this seems a common problem rather than an
unusual one. It appears that you need the basic
configuration of case changed to accomodate these modern
higher-heat parts. Enlarge front intake area of the metal
(and plastic bezel if necesssary). More and fancier exhaust
will only have limited benefit with no place for intake.

You could put a fan on the side panel to increase intake and
it would also help cool video card if mounted low enough,
BUT due to the issue with your case front intake you need to
take care of that first... otherwise adding any other intake
fans elsewhere will further decrease front intake, flow past
drives.

The rear fan mount above the PSU can be optional, after the
prior two mods you can reassess the system's cooling but for
the time being plug those holes.. they should either be
plugged or have a fan but not just a passive intake right
next to the exhaust (of the PSU).

Frankly I would not bother retesting stabilty yet, rather
getting entire system reworked for good airflow. Having a
system barely cool enough to stay stable is not the best
goal, rather it should be significantly cooler than that,
enough so that the parts have a good lifespan too.

 

[David Maynard]

Are you sure? Cpuburn (http://pages.sbcglobal.net/redelm/ -- I used k7 one)
made the CPU temperature a lot hotter than gaming and other stuff.

The 'CPU' may be hotter but that doesn't mean all parts of the 'CPU' were
the same temperature. I know it's hard to believe because it's so small but
there are significant temperature differentials across the die and you
can't tell that from a single CPU temp monitoring point.

The point was it can work fine under one set of circumstances and not
others depending on what the CPU is doing.

What do
you suggest to stress test only the CPU then?

What's another way to stress test the CPU and AGP at the same time without
gaming? Is there a liveCD/bootable CD that does this? I don't want have to
install another OS just to test this.

Kind of a moot point at this stage as you already know you have a stability
problem.

Hmm, OK.





Cool. That only fixes my DOOM 3's dots problem.

Well, it may only 'fix' that one but it isn't making the one you have now
even worse.

Hmmm, OK.



I don't remember. I haven't checked since September 2004. What's CFM?
Is that RPM? AFAIK, I am using regular 80mm case fans.

There's really no such thing as 'regular' but it probably means you have
low to medium speed fans.

RPM is not 'the same' as CFM but it certainly drives it, along with blade
design, fan size, thickness, etc.

Good. I had to get this because of my previosu upgrade before Athlon 64
upgrade. Radeon 9800 Pro AIW sucked all the power and made my third HDD
hang.




Just holes at the bottom. I think the HDD fan does have small intakes
(can hold a light tissue), but not enough.

OK. Well, that case isn't really designed for current day processors so you
may need to do some mods if you really want to use it.

Hmm... Should I block them? Put another fan behind it to blow out?

I can't tell much without seeing the case, depends on where it is and the
rest of the case airflow design, but my first guess would be to plug it.

I don't know how hot that is since I only have two sensors: CPU and
motherboard. I guess I would need to get a therometer for it which I
don't have right now.

Right. You need a thermometer and that's why I supposed you didn't know the
case temp. It would be a good idea to get one if you want to mod cases for
airflow because, otherwise, you're guessing.

AFAIK, it is called "Green Computer".

They use to *all* be called "green computer." That was the 'energy saving'
push that led to standby setting in BIOS, and such, but it doesn't mean a
thing to a case.

No one bothers to mention it anymore because the term is just 'normal' now.

I couldn't find anything about it
online. I am going to assume it is a generic case.

Yes, it's generic. Unfortunately 'generic' just means they comes by the
boat load from China with no brand name on them and not that there's any
'standard' configuration or layout (other than being some kind of ATX).

So, should I get a bunch of fans for every vents I have on this case? So,
front vents get intake. Rear get outtakes? I wonder if that will be enough to
cool my computer down.

Well, no. Just putting fans everywhere won't necessarily solve the problem
because it depends on how the air flows through the case (I.E. it's
possible to put in a ton of fans that just circulate air back and forth
between themselves cooling little else)

Your instinct to have front fans blow inwards with the rear blowing outward
is good and if there aren't open holes in between the front and rear that
should give good cross flow. Now, contrary to some advice, front fans are
the last place to put them because it's akin to trying to push a wet noodle
uphill, with the hot CPU air in the *rear* of the case being the noodle
you're trying to push out the rear. And that's why virtually all modern
'generic' cases have one or more large fans mounted on the rear right where
the CPU is blowing outward. The warm air is drawn directly out of the case
and since the case doesn't collapse from an internal vacuum we know air
must be coming into the case. And if the only inlet is at the lower front
then that's where the fresh, cool, air will come in. And since it's got to
end up at the rear going out those fans it'll have to flow across the
entire case and over everything inside.

However, if it has, as many generic cases do, vents all over the back side,
like over the ISA/PCI slots, or at the top of the case, or where ever they
found some unused flat space and punched some holes in it, then the rear
fans will preferentially pull air from there, being closer, instead of the
front. Now, it's bad enough that kills the cross flow but the air the fans
would get from those vents is not as cool as the front intake air because
it's heated by the air they're blowing out the back. So you end up
recirculating hot rear air back into the case over and over.

So you see, a bunch of rear vents, besides what the fans are using, hurts
rather than helps because they short circuit the airflow, and to hot air to
boot.

I am not sure where they are located

Hey, you got eyeballs, don't you?

and how fast. I do recall I had to
get old ones replaced because they got noisy after a year or more. I am
trying to avoid getting noisy fans. My powersupply fans are noisy enough.

Yes, well, good airflow in an older ATX case and 'quiet' are pretty much
mutually exclusive goals because the cases are not designed for large
diameter fans that can move a lot of air with low RPM, less noisy, fans.

OK, I will have to think about the air flow design. There are no vents on
the sides of the case. I am thinking of adding intake 80mm case fans for the
front side and have the rear fans do the outtake behind the vents.

Maybe I need a new full-tower ATX case (I was hoping I didn't need to
buy one when I got this Athlon 64 system). What do you think?

Well, I've modded some old cases and it can be a real pain for not much
improvement, depending on how restricted the layout is. By that I mean, if
there ain't a flat spot where the fan needs to go then you've got a real
problem. And even if it doesn't *look* like there are 'vents' on the front
you'll find that a lot of the old ATX cases are really 'open front' (not a
'flat metal front') underneath the bezel. And in those cases a front case
fan truly *is* useless. It just kind stirs the air around the front going
no where.

Buying a case 'made for it', of course, removes the engineering problem.

 

[ANTant]

Hmmm, the only intake air I know is the HDD cooler since placing a tissue

yes

OK. Time for me to add more fans to get the air flowing efficient.

good, lots of people don't

I can tell my room and computers sure get very dusty fast!

go to the local computer store and look at the cases they have, you
can get a good one for @$50.00 with power supply. More money often
just means a better power supply and more case options, most of which
you will never use.
OK.


true but it might give you a test to see if cooling is the issue.

OK.
--
"Be thine enemy an ant, see in him an elephant." --Turkish Proverb
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ The Ant Farm: http://antfarm.ma.cx
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net (offline)
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )

 

[ANTant]

I have a dilemma. I seem to have an overheating problem with my computer

The goal should not be to try tackling one limited
gaming-crash scenario. Rather you should ensure ALL parts
of system remain cool enough per that part's extended
full-load condition. You seem to be taking a backwards
approach to this, trying to backwards troubleshoot the
problem before ever having had system set up properly in the
first place.

OK. Well, we know that only gaming cause this problem. I already looked
into software, stress testing with various tools (memtest86, cpuburn, etc.).

Forget about tests for the time being.
Focus on basics like airflow... does the system have it in
sufficient quantities? Does the case have suitable intake
and exhaust areas, rather than stamped-in-metal, tiny holes
that impeded flow too much?

I would say no for intakes. It can barely hold a tissue layer on the front
vent. I assume that's not enough cool air going in the front. The rear
outtake is only from the PS. I think I am going to need to add more fans
around these vents. Also, need to aim the air flow correctly inside the
case.

<snip, snip>

First I admit I didn't read the whole thread... was rather
verbose and this seems a common problem rather than an
unusual one. It appears that you need the basic
configuration of case changed to accomodate these modern
higher-heat parts. Enlarge front intake area of the metal
(and plastic bezel if necesssary). More and fancier exhaust
will only have limited benefit with no place for intake.

You could put a fan on the side panel to increase intake and
it would also help cool video card if mounted low enough,
BUT due to the issue with your case front intake you need to
take care of that first... otherwise adding any other intake
fans elsewhere will further decrease front intake, flow past
drives.

Maybe I can add a fan to each side. Remember, no vents on the
side. I believe that's a good thing to keep air flow in control.

The rear fan mount above the PSU can be optional, after the
prior two mods you can reassess the system's cooling but for
the time being plug those holes.. they should either be
plugged or have a fan but not just a passive intake right
next to the exhaust (of the PSU).
OK.


Frankly I would not bother retesting stabilty yet, rather
getting entire system reworked for good airflow. Having a
system barely cool enough to stay stable is not the best
goal, rather it should be significantly cooler than that,
enough so that the parts have a good lifespan too.

OK and thanks!

FYI general surfing online of my temperatures (haven't tweaked
the case yet):

CPU temperature: 57 C/134 F
MB temperature: 41 C/105 F
Room temperature: 23.3 C / 75 F

Still too hot for sure.
--
"Be thine enemy an ant, see in him an elephant." --Turkish Proverb
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ The Ant Farm: http://antfarm.ma.cx
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net (offline)
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )

 

[Ashley Pride]

FYI. I just purchased a case recently and went looking for ones big
enough to take 2x 12" fans (move airflow at lower speeds = less noise).
I'd recommended the Antec P160.

Ash.

 

[ANTant]

I have a dilemma. I seem to have an overheating problem with my computer

The 'CPU' may be hotter but that doesn't mean all parts of the 'CPU' were
the same temperature. I know it's hard to believe because it's so small but
there are significant temperature differentials across the die and you
can't tell that from a single CPU temp monitoring point.

The point was it can work fine under one set of circumstances and not
others depending on what the CPU is doing.
OK.

Kind of a moot point at this stage as you already know you have a stability
problem.
OK.

Well, it may only 'fix' that one but it isn't making the one you have now
even worse.
OK.

There's really no such thing as 'regular' but it probably means you have
low to medium speed fans.

RPM is not 'the same' as CFM but it certainly drives it, along with blade
design, fan size, thickness, etc.
Ahh...

OK. Well, that case isn't really designed for current day processors so you
may need to do some mods if you really want to use it.

OK. I will try modding it first.

I can't tell much without seeing the case, depends on where it is and the
rest of the case airflow design, but my first guess would be to plug it.

Front middle and bottom have vents (no noticable inntake -- doesn't suck a
tissue easily). Rear vents are located on 1/4th down from the top (PSU fan
outtake) and halfway down (no air blowing out). No side vents.

Right. You need a thermometer and that's why I supposed you didn't know the
case temp. It would be a good idea to get one if you want to mod cases for
airflow because, otherwise, you're guessing.

OK. Can I use any thermometer (for bodies) or do I need to get a special one?

They use to *all* be called "green computer." That was the 'energy saving'
push that led to standby setting in BIOS, and such, but it doesn't mean a
thing to a case.

No one bothers to mention it anymore because the term is just 'normal' now.
Ah.

Yes, it's generic. Unfortunately 'generic' just means they comes by the
boat load from China with no brand name on them and not that there's any
'standard' configuration or layout (other than being some kind of ATX).

Yeah, I got this from a Chinese retailer.

Well, no. Just putting fans everywhere won't necessarily solve the problem
because it depends on how the air flows through the case (I.E. it's
possible to put in a ton of fans that just circulate air back and forth
between themselves cooling little else)

OK, I need to strategize the air flow with the fans.

Your instinct to have front fans blow inwards with the rear blowing outward
is good and if there aren't open holes in between the front and rear that
should give good cross flow. Now, contrary to some advice, front fans are
the last place to put them because it's akin to trying to push a wet noodle
uphill, with the hot CPU air in the *rear* of the case being the noodle
you're trying to push out the rear. And that's why virtually all modern
'generic' cases have one or more large fans mounted on the rear right where
the CPU is blowing outward. The warm air is drawn directly out of the case
and since the case doesn't collapse from an internal vacuum we know air
must be coming into the case. And if the only inlet is at the lower front
then that's where the fresh, cool, air will come in. And since it's got to
end up at the rear going out those fans it'll have to flow across the
entire case and over everything inside.

Ahh, good point.

However, if it has, as many generic cases do, vents all over the back side,
like over the ISA/PCI slots, or at the top of the case, or where ever they
found some unused flat space and punched some holes in it, then the rear
fans will preferentially pull air from there, being closer, instead of the
front. Now, it's bad enough that kills the cross flow but the air the fans
would get from those vents is not as cool as the front intake air because
it's heated by the air they're blowing out the back. So you end up
recirculating hot rear air back into the case over and over.
Interesting.


So you see, a bunch of rear vents, besides what the fans are using, hurts
rather than helps because they short circuit the airflow, and to hot air to
boot.

OK, I didn't know this. Good stuff to know!

Hey, you got eyeballs, don't you?

Yeah, but I haven't opened my case for a while.

Yes, well, good airflow in an older ATX case and 'quiet' are pretty much
mutually exclusive goals because the cases are not designed for large
diameter fans that can move a lot of air with low RPM, less noisy, fans.

Hmm, I might have to get a new case if modding the current doesn't work well.
I hope that won't happen.

Well, I've modded some old cases and it can be a real pain for not much
improvement, depending on how restricted the layout is. By that I mean, if
there ain't a flat spot where the fan needs to go then you've got a real
problem. And even if it doesn't *look* like there are 'vents' on the front
you'll find that a lot of the old ATX cases are really 'open front' (not a
'flat metal front') underneath the bezel. And in those cases a front case
fan truly *is* useless. It just kind stirs the air around the front going
no where.

I don't know if mine has flat mteal front. I will have to check. I know there
are frames. Do you have photographs of this?

Buying a case 'made for it', of course, removes the engineering problem.

OK and thanks!
--
"Be thine enemy an ant, see in him an elephant." --Turkish Proverb
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ The Ant Farm: http://antfarm.ma.cx
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net (offline)
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )

 

[David Maynard]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

Ahh...

CFM is "cubic feet per minute" (of air)

Front middle and bottom have vents (no noticable inntake -- doesn't suck a
tissue easily). Rear vents are located on 1/4th down from the top (PSU fan
outtake) and halfway down (no air blowing out). No side vents.

It's time we start saying more than just 'vents'. Like "fan mount," with or
without a fan. And let's not call the PSU fan a case 'vent'. We know there
must be a PSU so 'case vents' are in addition to that. Other vents are just
slots or holes punched into the case with no original intent to have a fan
mounted. Are there any of those above the ISA/PCI slots or other places?

What is above the PSU on the rear? Some full towers have fan mounts up
there (which are a problem if left open because of the air recirculation
issue mentioned earlier).

What is a 'front middle' vent? Do you mean a hard drive cooler mounted in a
5.25 inch bay?

OK. Can I use any thermometer (for bodies) or do I need to get a special one?

temperature is temperature. The problem is being able to see a thermometer
inside the case.

I have a Radio shack indoor/outdoor thermometer. The 'outdoor' reading
comes from a wired probe that you can put in the case.

I've modified mine by reversing the sensors and putting the internal one on
a cable too (ranges are different and I use the second one for heatsink
readings) but you could use just the outdoor probe as a case temp indicator
for now.

Yeah, but I haven't opened my case for a while.

Well, with the temperature problem and all the discussion about where fans
and vents are located it's past time to do so.

I don't know if mine has flat mteal front. I will have to check. I know there
are frames. Do you have photographs of this?

Sorry, no pictures but the basics are not hard to visualize. A modern case
will have a contiguous flat metal front with knockouts where the drive bays
are and the side panels attach to the internal metal case. Point is, air
can't come/go in/out except where the vents are. I.E. Airflow is
'controlled'. (Btw, you shouldn't knock out plate covers in bays you're not
putting anything in because it ends up being a gaping hole that short
circuits the airflow away from the bottom intake.)

Older cases often don't have a solid metal front. There may be side rails,
and various pieces of sheet metal in places to hold things, like the front
switches/LEDs, drive bays, and a bracket to mount a fan on, but there is a
lot of open space and/or 'large cracks' between things. The point is, there
are lots of places for air to come/go in/out, just on the front, so a fan
can't 'push' air very far, and certainly not to the rear of the case,
before it wafts out some other gaping hole. I.E. the 'wet noodle uphill'
effect I talk about. Those cases depend on natural convection as much as
the fans and it's just not enough for the amount of power generated by
modern systems.

Frankly, even a well made case has front air leakage (CD door and floppy
are two examples) that limits the usefulness of a front case fan to 'push'
air across the case because there's significant 'leakage' of it out holes
other than the vent near the CPU. Notably, what portion *does* reach the
rear will like to short circuit right to the PSU since it's actively
exhausting (creating a low pressure area at it's inlet that air will like
to fill). That not only reduces the effectiveness of getting CPU heat out
but it increases the air temp into the PSU since the air is preheated by
the entire case contents, including the CPU, making the PSU hotter.

Putting an active rear exhaust, meaning fan, right at the CPU area pulls
the CPU heat directly out (after some case mixing) and increases overall
case airflow because now both the PSU and rear case fans are pulling air
from the front (where all the leaky holes are in addition to 'official
vents'). And the PSU will be cooler because it's inlet air is only heated
by what's left in the case, but not the majority of CPU air since that's
got it's own direct local exit out the rear.

From a noise standpoint, it's also better to have the fan in the rear,
where it's further from ears with the case acting as a sound block.

Btw, with a rear case fan you're probably better off removing the fans in
the drive bay cooler and simply let the PSU and rear fan pull air through
the empty holes (might even plug one or two of them, depending on how the
front inlet airflow goes). And it'll be quieter without them.

Besides a front panel full of gaping holes, the even bigger problem I had
with one of my old ATX full towers was that the area over the rear I/O
plate was not only filled with 'vent holes' but it didn't have enough flat
space to mount a fan on. I tried plugging vent holes, sealing gaps in the
front, and doing the 'push air with front case fans' routine but it was
hopeless. You simply can't pull a vacuum on a screen door and you can't
'pressurize' a sieve. Well, short of using a 747 fan jet anyway.

 

[ANTant]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

<multiple snips>

CFM is "cubic feet per minute" (of air)
OK.

It's time we start saying more than just 'vents'. Like "fan mount," with or
without a fan. And let's not call the PSU fan a case 'vent'. We know there
must be a PSU so 'case vents' are in addition to that. Other vents are just
slots or holes punched into the case with no original intent to have a fan
mounted. Are there any of those above the ISA/PCI slots or other places?

Not sure. I will have to check. It's way late now so I cannot answer now. I
will look at it later.

What is above the PSU on the rear? Some full towers have fan mounts up
there (which are a problem if left open because of the air recirculation
issue mentioned earlier).

What is a 'front middle' vent? Do you mean a hard drive cooler mounted in a
5.25 inch bay?

Yes, 5.25" bay. The HDD cooler has a vent.

temperature is temperature. The problem is being able to see a thermometer
inside the case.

Hmm, good point!!

I have a Radio shack indoor/outdoor thermometer. The 'outdoor' reading
comes from a wired probe that you can put in the case.

Do you have a name for it? URL? How much does one cost?

I've modified mine by reversing the sensors and putting the internal one on
a cable too (ranges are different and I use the second one for heatsink
readings) but you could use just the outdoor probe as a case temp indicator
for now.
OK.

Well, with the temperature problem and all the discussion about where fans
and vents are located it's past time to do so.
Yeah.

Sorry, no pictures but the basics are not hard to visualize. A modern case
will have a contiguous flat metal front with knockouts where the drive bays
are and the side panels attach to the internal metal case. Point is, air
can't come/go in/out except where the vents are. I.E. Airflow is
'controlled'. (Btw, you shouldn't knock out plate covers in bays you're not
putting anything in because it ends up being a gaping hole that short
circuits the airflow away from the bottom intake.)

Ahh, crap. I threw those away. What can I use to cover those?

Older cases often don't have a solid metal front. There may be side rails,
and various pieces of sheet metal in places to hold things, like the front
switches/LEDs, drive bays, and a bracket to mount a fan on, but there is a
lot of open space and/or 'large cracks' between things. The point is, there
are lots of places for air to come/go in/out, just on the front, so a fan
can't 'push' air very far, and certainly not to the rear of the case,
before it wafts out some other gaping hole. I.E. the 'wet noodle uphill'
effect I talk about. Those cases depend on natural convection as much as
the fans and it's just not enough for the amount of power generated by
modern systems.

Ahh, I will check for those cracks that leak.

Frankly, even a well made case has front air leakage (CD door and floppy
are two examples) that limits the usefulness of a front case fan to 'push'
air across the case because there's significant 'leakage' of it out holes
other than the vent near the CPU. Notably, what portion *does* reach the
rear will like to short circuit right to the PSU since it's actively
exhausting (creating a low pressure area at it's inlet that air will like
to fill). That not only reduces the effectiveness of getting CPU heat out
but it increases the air temp into the PSU since the air is preheated by
the entire case contents, including the CPU, making the PSU hotter.

Putting an active rear exhaust, meaning fan, right at the CPU area pulls
the CPU heat directly out (after some case mixing) and increases overall
case airflow because now both the PSU and rear case fans are pulling air
from the front (where all the leaky holes are in addition to 'official
vents'). And the PSU will be cooler because it's inlet air is only heated
by what's left in the case, but not the majority of CPU air since that's
got it's own direct local exit out the rear.

From a noise standpoint, it's also better to have the fan in the rear,
where it's further from ears with the case acting as a sound block.

Btw, with a rear case fan you're probably better off removing the fans in
the drive bay cooler and simply let the PSU and rear fan pull air through
the empty holes (might even plug one or two of them, depending on how the
front inlet airflow goes). And it'll be quieter without them.
OK.


Besides a front panel full of gaping holes, the even bigger problem I had
with one of my old ATX full towers was that the area over the rear I/O
plate was not only filled with 'vent holes' but it didn't have enough flat
space to mount a fan on. I tried plugging vent holes, sealing gaps in the
front, and doing the 'push air with front case fans' routine but it was
hopeless. You simply can't pull a vacuum on a screen door and you can't
'pressurize' a sieve. Well, short of using a 747 fan jet anyway.

Yeah, I hate those noisy fans. I hope I don't make my case sound like an
big plane.

--
"Be thine enemy an ant, see in him an elephant." --Turkish Proverb
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[David Maynard]

Do you have a name for it? URL? How much does one cost?

Mine is CAT # 63-1024 but I don't know if they still make that particular
model, or any model at all for that matter.

Ahh, crap. I threw those away. What can I use to cover those?

The magical construction material of many flavors generically known as tape

 

[kony]

Do you have a name for it? URL? How much does one cost?

Consider that only an example, you can get wired or wireless
outdoor thermometers all over... probably at your local
hardware store or superstores. Online just search for
"digital outdoor thermometer"

Ahh, crap. I threw those away. What can I use to cover those?

Some cases don't even need them covered back up. Once you
have sufficiently large open area at the bottom of the case,
it would be a fairly small percentage of air coming in
between the outer bezel (plastic?) bay covers. _IF_ you
mount a fan on the bottom front wall of the metal case
frame, such that it would recirculate some of the air
thorough the bezel, drawing from the top down towards the
bottom, that can be sufficiently reduced by taking off the
bezel and cutting a piece of foam (for example a piece of
cushion out of a HDD box or carpet padding rolled up) then
wedging that behind the bezel such that it will blow most of
the flow between the top and bottom of the bezel.

You should not try to prevent ALL air intake through the top
bays though, as optical drives (being the typical component
in those bay(s) do benefit from the slight intake there, or
exhaust if your case was positively pressurized, which it
currently is not.

Ahh, I will check for those cracks that leak.

Keep in mind that these cracks may not be ideal but aren't
necessarily a problem either, IF you have the AMD and Intel
recommended case configuration. That is the power supply
AND a rear fan exhausting. Both fans should have open
exhaust paths, NOT stamped-metal grills, only a wire grill
if there is a safety issue of something getting into the fan
blades path. You really need to stop focusing on anything
else and just do what they recommend, THEN see if you need
anything more. The above also assumes you have adequate
passive intake on the front bottom of the case.

 

[ANTant]

Mine is CAT # 63-1024 but I don't know if they still make that particular
model, or any model at all for that matter.

OK. I guess I will have to research for one if I need one.

The magical construction material of many flavors generically known as tape

Isn't that dangerous? Like flammable?
--
"Be thine enemy an ant, see in him an elephant." --Turkish Proverb
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/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ The Ant Farm: http://antfarm.ma.cx
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\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )

 

[ANTant]

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 06:19:14 -0500, (e-mail address removed) wrote:

Consider that only an example, you can get wired or wireless
outdoor thermometers all over... probably at your local
hardware store or superstores. Online just search for
"digital outdoor thermometer

Ahhh. I was expecting a really simple cheap tyoe, not a fancy one with LCD
screens and stuff. Thanks.

Some cases don't even need them covered back up. Once you
have sufficiently large open area at the bottom of the case,
it would be a fairly small percentage of air coming in
between the outer bezel (plastic?) bay covers. _IF_ you
mount a fan on the bottom front wall of the metal case
frame, such that it would recirculate some of the air
thorough the bezel, drawing from the top down towards the
bottom, that can be sufficiently reduced by taking off the
bezel and cutting a piece of foam (for example a piece of
cushion out of a HDD box or carpet padding rolled up) then
wedging that behind the bezel such that it will blow most of
the flow between the top and bottom of the bezel.

You should not try to prevent ALL air intake through the top
bays though, as optical drives (being the typical component
in those bay(s) do benefit from the slight intake there, or
exhaust if your case was positively pressurized, which it
currently is not.

OK. My DVD-ROM and old Plextor CD burner drives are at the top bays.

Keep in mind that these cracks may not be ideal but aren't
necessarily a problem either, IF you have the AMD and Intel
recommended case configuration. That is the power supply

I assume this full-tower ATX case is designed since I used it
for P3, P4, and Athlon XP CPUs and DFI and ASUS motherboards.
However, I do not recall seeing the case box saying it was
certified or anything like that. To me, all case interiors
look similiar. Mine is like that. Power supply in the back,
vents back and front, etc. The only thing is I don't have USB
plugs in the front like some cases like Dell's.

AND a rear fan exhausting. Both fans should have open
exhaust paths, NOT stamped-metal grills, only a wire grill
if there is a safety issue of something getting into the fan
blades path. You really need to stop focusing on anything
else and just do what they recommend, THEN see if you need
anything more. The above also assumes you have adequate
passive intake on the front bottom of the case.

OK. I definitely need to get more inttakes (too weak) and
outtakes (beside the powersupply fan).
--
"Be thine enemy an ant, see in him an elephant." --Turkish Proverb
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ The Ant Farm: http://antfarm.ma.cx
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net (offline)
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )