External Hard Drive Screw

B

Bob

This subject was brought up before in the NG, but the answers all were
that it was a Torx bit, which I do not think it is.

Anyhow I have the same problem. I bought a Seagate external HD and
want to be able to replace the drive after I fill it up. These screws
are visible on the bottom. Questions are:

1) are these in fact the screws that hold the case on, or are they
under the rubber feet (did not come off easily so I haven't tried
harder yet)

2) If they are the screws I need to remove, what removes them? I have
lots of bits (Torx, square, other stars, etc.) but nothing even comes
close to fitting these.

An image

http://home.ec.rr.com/e10sale/5-point star.jpg

Thanks, Bob
 
A

Arno Wagner

Previously Bob said:
This subject was brought up before in the NG, but the answers all were
that it was a Torx bit, which I do not think it is.
Anyhow I have the same problem. I bought a Seagate external HD and
want to be able to replace the drive after I fill it up. These screws
are visible on the bottom. Questions are:
1) are these in fact the screws that hold the case on, or are they
under the rubber feet (did not come off easily so I haven't tried
harder yet)

Impossible to say. But it is usually better to first try with the
visible screws.
2) If they are the screws I need to remove, what removes them? I have
lots of bits (Torx, square, other stars, etc.) but nothing even comes
close to fitting these.

Definitely not Torx. Torx is 6-pointed. It also does not
look like the usual "secure" screws. You might have to make your
own. You can also try with a flat-bladed screwdriver, it might
do the trick if the screws are not thight.

Arno
 
T

Thomas Wendell

Somewhere in thisa gruop there was a discussion of these. IIRC it's called a
Torx PLus or something like that. Maybe not available in your local
grocelly/general shop, but a well supplied tools or electronics vendor might
have them...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx at the end...
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

TORX screw head design

TORX, developed by Textron Fastening Systems (formerly Camcar Textron), is
the trademark for a type of screw head characterized by a 6-point
star-shaped pattern (in the same way that slotted heads, Phillips, Allen,
and Robertson have flat, ×-shaped, hexagonal, and square tips,
respectively). People unfamiliar with the trademark generally use the term
star, as in "star screwdriver" or "star bits." The generic name is
hexalobular internal driving feature and is standardised by the
International Organization for Standardization as ISO 10664.

By design, TORX head screws resist cam-out better than Phillips head or slot
head screws. Where Phillips heads were designed to cause the driver to cam
out, to prevent over-tightening, TORX heads were designed to prevent it. The
reason for this was the development of better torque-limiting automatic
screwdrivers for use in factories. Rather than relying on the tool slipping
out of the screw head when a torque level is reached, and thereby risking
damage to the driver tip, screw head and workpiece, the drivers were
designed to consistently achieve a desired torque. Textron claims this can
increase tool bit life by an order of magnitude, or more.

TORX screws are commonly found on automobiles, computer systems and consumer
electronics, but are also becoming increasingly popular in construction.
Do-it-yourself mechanics will often remove the TORX screws on a vehicle and
replace them with more common screws and bolts such as hex head bolts,
because they believe it is easier to carry an adjustable wrench to fit many
different sizes of hex heads, rather than carrying several different sizes
of TORX screwdrivers or bits.
[edit]

Sizing

TORX head sizes are described using the capital letter "T", followed by a
number. A smaller number corresponds to a smaller point-to-point dimension
of the screw head. Common sizes include T5, T10, T15 and T25, although they
reach as high as T100. Only the proper driver can drive a specific head size
without risking the ruin of the driver or screw. The same series of TORX
drivers is used to drive SAE, metric and other thread system fasteners,
reducing the number of bit sizes required.
[edit]

Variants

Security TORX driver

A version known as Security TORX or Tamper Resistant TORX (often shortened
by Torx TR) contains a post in the center of the head that prevents a
standard TORX driver from being inserted.

An external TORX version exists, where the screw head has the shape of a
TORX screwdriver bit, and a special TORX socket is used to drive it. These
are found primarily on automobile engines.

A TORX variant, TORX PLUS, is designed to allow greater torque, and to
minimize wear. Currently, TORX PLUS heads and drivers are patented, slowing
adoption in the marketplace. Standard TORX drivers can be used to drive TORX
PLUS screws, but TORX PLUS drivers will not fit standard TORX screws. There
is also a tamper resistant version of TORX PLUS, having five lobes and solid
post in the center.

TORX, TORX PLUS and Camcar are registered trademarks of Textron, Inc.
===========================================================

--
Tumppi
=================================
Most learned on these newsgroups
Helsinki, FINLAND
(translations from/to FI not always accurate
=================================
 
B

Bob

I agree - it's not Torx - see my reply to the next post.

It is very shallow - I have tried all kinds of flat bits, square bits,
other funny star bits that I have in a kit, and nothing gets even as
much as a nudge.

Thanks, Bob
 
B

Bob

Thomas, I read the other thread very, very carefully, and read the
reference you posted.

It is NOT a Torx bit, secure or otherwise. I have a full Torx set
INCLUDING SECURE and they don't grab even a nudge.

These have 5 small nubs, but no center post, so its not Torx Plus.

Nobody was able to help the other guy either, and I am afraid I am in
the same boat.

Bob

Somewhere in thisa gruop there was a discussion of these. IIRC it's called a
Torx PLus or something like that. Maybe not available in your local
grocelly/general shop, but a well supplied tools or electronics vendor might
have them...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx at the end...
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

TORX screw head design

TORX, developed by Textron Fastening Systems (formerly Camcar Textron), is
the trademark for a type of screw head characterized by a 6-point
star-shaped pattern (in the same way that slotted heads, Phillips, Allen,
and Robertson have flat, ×-shaped, hexagonal, and square tips,
respectively). People unfamiliar with the trademark generally use the term
star, as in "star screwdriver" or "star bits." The generic name is
hexalobular internal driving feature and is standardised by the
International Organization for Standardization as ISO 10664.

By design, TORX head screws resist cam-out better than Phillips head or slot
head screws. Where Phillips heads were designed to cause the driver to cam
out, to prevent over-tightening, TORX heads were designed to prevent it. The
reason for this was the development of better torque-limiting automatic
screwdrivers for use in factories. Rather than relying on the tool slipping
out of the screw head when a torque level is reached, and thereby risking
damage to the driver tip, screw head and workpiece, the drivers were
designed to consistently achieve a desired torque. Textron claims this can
increase tool bit life by an order of magnitude, or more.

TORX screws are commonly found on automobiles, computer systems and consumer
electronics, but are also becoming increasingly popular in construction.
Do-it-yourself mechanics will often remove the TORX screws on a vehicle and
replace them with more common screws and bolts such as hex head bolts,
because they believe it is easier to carry an adjustable wrench to fit many
different sizes of hex heads, rather than carrying several different sizes
of TORX screwdrivers or bits.
[edit]

Sizing

TORX head sizes are described using the capital letter "T", followed by a
number. A smaller number corresponds to a smaller point-to-point dimension
of the screw head. Common sizes include T5, T10, T15 and T25, although they
reach as high as T100. Only the proper driver can drive a specific head size
without risking the ruin of the driver or screw. The same series of TORX
drivers is used to drive SAE, metric and other thread system fasteners,
reducing the number of bit sizes required.
[edit]

Variants

Security TORX driver

A version known as Security TORX or Tamper Resistant TORX (often shortened
by Torx TR) contains a post in the center of the head that prevents a
standard TORX driver from being inserted.

An external TORX version exists, where the screw head has the shape of a
TORX screwdriver bit, and a special TORX socket is used to drive it. These
are found primarily on automobile engines.

A TORX variant, TORX PLUS, is designed to allow greater torque, and to
minimize wear. Currently, TORX PLUS heads and drivers are patented, slowing
adoption in the marketplace. Standard TORX drivers can be used to drive TORX
PLUS screws, but TORX PLUS drivers will not fit standard TORX screws. There
is also a tamper resistant version of TORX PLUS, having five lobes and solid
post in the center.

TORX, TORX PLUS and Camcar are registered trademarks of Textron, Inc.
===========================================================
 
J

J. Clarke

Bob said:
This subject was brought up before in the NG, but the answers all were
that it was a Torx bit, which I do not think it is.

Anyhow I have the same problem. I bought a Seagate external HD and
want to be able to replace the drive after I fill it up. These screws
are visible on the bottom. Questions are:

1) are these in fact the screws that hold the case on, or are they
under the rubber feet (did not come off easily so I haven't tried
harder yet)

2) If they are the screws I need to remove, what removes them? I have
lots of bits (Torx, square, other stars, etc.) but nothing even comes
close to fitting these.

An image

http://home.ec.rr.com/e10sale/5-point star.jpg

Find the earlier discussion and reread it. The conclusion was not that it
was not a standard Torx but a security Torx Plus, which is different from a
Torx, 5-pointed, not 6, and has restricted distribution.
 
R

Rod Speed

Bob said:
Thomas, I read the other thread very, very carefully, and read the
reference you posted.

It is NOT a Torx bit, secure or otherwise. I have a full Torx set
INCLUDING SECURE and they don't grab even a nudge.
These have 5 small nubs, but no center post, so its not Torx Plus.

What matters is that its got 5 points. The lack of a center post
wont prevent a 5 pointed Torx security bit from working.
Nobody was able to help the other guy either,
and I am afraid I am in the same boat.

They must obviously be available somewhere since Seagate uses them.

Somewhere in thisa gruop there was a discussion of these. IIRC it's
called a Torx PLus or something like that. Maybe not available in
your local grocelly/general shop, but a well supplied tools or
electronics vendor might have them...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx at the end...
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

TORX screw head design

TORX, developed by Textron Fastening Systems (formerly Camcar
Textron), is the trademark for a type of screw head characterized by
a 6-point star-shaped pattern (in the same way that slotted heads,
Phillips, Allen, and Robertson have flat, ×-shaped, hexagonal, and
square tips, respectively). People unfamiliar with the trademark
generally use the term star, as in "star screwdriver" or "star
bits." The generic name is hexalobular internal driving feature and
is standardised by the International Organization for
Standardization as ISO 10664.

By design, TORX head screws resist cam-out better than Phillips head
or slot head screws. Where Phillips heads were designed to cause the
driver to cam out, to prevent over-tightening, TORX heads were
designed to prevent it. The reason for this was the development of
better torque-limiting automatic screwdrivers for use in factories.
Rather than relying on the tool slipping out of the screw head when
a torque level is reached, and thereby risking damage to the driver
tip, screw head and workpiece, the drivers were designed to
consistently achieve a desired torque. Textron claims this can
increase tool bit life by an order of magnitude, or more.

TORX screws are commonly found on automobiles, computer systems and
consumer electronics, but are also becoming increasingly popular in
construction. Do-it-yourself mechanics will often remove the TORX
screws on a vehicle and replace them with more common screws and
bolts such as hex head bolts, because they believe it is easier to
carry an adjustable wrench to fit many different sizes of hex heads,
rather than carrying several different sizes of TORX screwdrivers or
bits. [edit]

Sizing

TORX head sizes are described using the capital letter "T", followed
by a number. A smaller number corresponds to a smaller
point-to-point dimension of the screw head. Common sizes include T5,
T10, T15 and T25, although they reach as high as T100. Only the
proper driver can drive a specific head size without risking the
ruin of the driver or screw. The same series of TORX drivers is used
to drive SAE, metric and other thread system fasteners, reducing the
number of bit sizes required. [edit]

Variants

Security TORX driver

A version known as Security TORX or Tamper Resistant TORX (often
shortened by Torx TR) contains a post in the center of the head that
prevents a standard TORX driver from being inserted.

An external TORX version exists, where the screw head has the shape
of a TORX screwdriver bit, and a special TORX socket is used to
drive it. These are found primarily on automobile engines.

A TORX variant, TORX PLUS, is designed to allow greater torque, and
to minimize wear. Currently, TORX PLUS heads and drivers are
patented, slowing adoption in the marketplace. Standard TORX drivers
can be used to drive TORX PLUS screws, but TORX PLUS drivers will
not fit standard TORX screws. There is also a tamper resistant
version of TORX PLUS, having five lobes and solid post in the center.

TORX, TORX PLUS and Camcar are registered trademarks of Textron, Inc.
===========================================================
 
F

Folkert Rienstra

Arno Wagner said:
Impossible to say. But it is usually better to first try with the
visible screws.




Definitely not Torx.
Torx is 6-pointed.

Except the 5-pointed ones.
It also does not look like the usual "secure" screws.

Well, it looks like a secure screw, just not the usual ones.
With this one the pin is replaced by a bulge.
You might have to make your own.

Like center drilling a secure torx bit until it fits.
You can also try with a flat-bladed screwdriver, it might
do the trick if the screws are not thight.

Then it would work with the 5-pointed TORX as well.
It's the bulge that is the problem.
 
P

Peter

This subject was brought up before in the NG, but the answers all were
that it was a Torx bit, which I do not think it is.

Tamper-proof/secure (pin in a center), Torx (star like shape), Plus (5
instead of 6).
http://www.mytoolstore.com/sk/sk03095.html
Anyhow I have the same problem. I bought a Seagate external HD and
want to be able to replace the drive after I fill it up.

Fill up with what?
What happens if drive gets damaged during operation?
 
J

J. Clarke

Bob said:
Thomas, I read the other thread very, very carefully, and read the
reference you posted.

It is NOT a Torx bit, secure or otherwise. I have a full Torx set
INCLUDING SECURE and they don't grab even a nudge.

These have 5 small nubs, but no center post, so its not Torx Plus.

Nobody was able to help the other guy either, and I am afraid I am in
the same boat.

Nobody could help him because he refused to listen.

Look at
<http://www.textronfasteningsystems.com/licensing/PDFS/noncon/tp/inch/inchheadstds/NIH30.2ly1.pdf>

You will see there the dimensions for Tamper Resistant Torx Plus fasteners
in sizes 1 through 7. Note that there is NO REPEAT NO CENTER PIN. Note
that there are FIVE REPEAT FIVE lobes.

The Tamper Resistant Torx Plus screw in that size range for which a driver
is readily available, as was pointed out in that earlier thread, is from a
fellow on ebay named Elvis Fong who sells one for opening the Sony Clie and
several models of cell phone that appears to be roughly equivalent to a
Number 3 Tamper Resistant Torx Plus. The shape is slighly different but
the dimension is close enough that it should work. He charges under a
dollar and shipping for them.

If you had bothered to actually take the clue that it might be a tamper
resistant torx plus and researched it a bit you would have found all of
this except the screwdriver for yourself.

If that didn't work, I'd take a left hand drill bit to it and replace it
with something with a standard head, or just cut a slot in it while it was
out if it came out without too much damage.
Bob

Somewhere in thisa gruop there was a discussion of these. IIRC it's called
a Torx PLus or something like that. Maybe not available in your local
grocelly/general shop, but a well supplied tools or electronics vendor
might have them...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx at the end...
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

TORX screw head design

TORX, developed by Textron Fastening Systems (formerly Camcar Textron), is
the trademark for a type of screw head characterized by a 6-point
star-shaped pattern (in the same way that slotted heads, Phillips, Allen,
and Robertson have flat, ×-shaped, hexagonal, and square tips,
respectively). People unfamiliar with the trademark generally use the term
star, as in "star screwdriver" or "star bits." The generic name is
hexalobular internal driving feature and is standardised by the
International Organization for Standardization as ISO 10664.

By design, TORX head screws resist cam-out better than Phillips head or
slot head screws. Where Phillips heads were designed to cause the driver
to cam out, to prevent over-tightening, TORX heads were designed to
prevent it. The reason for this was the development of better
torque-limiting automatic screwdrivers for use in factories. Rather than
relying on the tool slipping out of the screw head when a torque level is
reached, and thereby risking damage to the driver tip, screw head and
workpiece, the drivers were designed to consistently achieve a desired
torque. Textron claims this can increase tool bit life by an order of
magnitude, or more.

TORX screws are commonly found on automobiles, computer systems and
consumer electronics, but are also becoming increasingly popular in
construction. Do-it-yourself mechanics will often remove the TORX screws
on a vehicle and replace them with more common screws and bolts such as
hex head bolts, because they believe it is easier to carry an adjustable
wrench to fit many different sizes of hex heads, rather than carrying
several different sizes of TORX screwdrivers or bits.
[edit]

Sizing

TORX head sizes are described using the capital letter "T", followed by a
number. A smaller number corresponds to a smaller point-to-point dimension
of the screw head. Common sizes include T5, T10, T15 and T25, although
they reach as high as T100. Only the proper driver can drive a specific
head size without risking the ruin of the driver or screw. The same series
of TORX drivers is used to drive SAE, metric and other thread system
fasteners, reducing the number of bit sizes required.
[edit]

Variants

Security TORX driver

A version known as Security TORX or Tamper Resistant TORX (often shortened
by Torx TR) contains a post in the center of the head that prevents a
standard TORX driver from being inserted.

An external TORX version exists, where the screw head has the shape of a
TORX screwdriver bit, and a special TORX socket is used to drive it. These
are found primarily on automobile engines.

A TORX variant, TORX PLUS, is designed to allow greater torque, and to
minimize wear. Currently, TORX PLUS heads and drivers are patented,
slowing adoption in the marketplace. Standard TORX drivers can be used to
drive TORX PLUS screws, but TORX PLUS drivers will not fit standard TORX
screws. There is also a tamper resistant version of TORX PLUS, having five
lobes and solid post in the center.

TORX, TORX PLUS and Camcar are registered trademarks of Textron, Inc.
===========================================================
 
B

Bob

Thank you. Well, it certainly does look like a Tamper-Proof Torx Plus.
Too bad you can't get 'em.

Well, that's it for me - the drive goes back to Best Buy.

About filling up: I do a lot of video editing / DVD creation these
days. I want to archive all the input files and they are large - it
takes about 15-20GB for an hour or so of video. Since there are very
few devices that can handle that much data, I decided to buy a bunch
of 200GB hard drives. I plan to fill 'em up and then put them on the
shelf. I got the drives for $70 ea, so that makes each project storage
about $5-$7 - cheap.

I have two external hard drive cases. I do PC consulting and repair
and use them often. The reason I have two is that I bought a new one
with a serial adapter, and intended to keep the old one in the house
for this stuff. Well, the old one crapped out. The IDE ribbon cable
has gone bad after so much use, and one end is soldered in, so not
worth fixing.

SO, I needed another external case. Best Buy had these Seagate 160GB
externals for $90. I figgered I would buy one, get another 160GB of
storage, and the case. But it's no good to me unless i can open it!

So, back she goes!

Thanks for all the help.

Bob
 
R

Rod Speed

Bob said:
Thank you. Well, it certainly does look like a Tamper-Proof Torx Plus.
Too bad you can't get 'em.

Corse you can
http://www.google.com/search?as_epq=Tamper-Proof+Torx+Plus
Well, that's it for me - the drive goes back to Best Buy.
About filling up: I do a lot of video editing / DVD creation these days.
I want to archive all the input files and they are large - it takes about
15-20GB for an hour or so of video. Since there are very few devices
that can handle that much data, I decided to buy a bunch of 200GB
hard drives. I plan to fill 'em up and then put them on the shelf. I got
the
drives for $70 ea, so that makes each project storage about $5-$7 -
cheap.
I have two external hard drive cases. I do PC consulting and repair
and use them often. The reason I have two is that I bought a new one
with a serial adapter, and intended to keep the old one in the house
for this stuff. Well, the old one crapped out. The IDE ribbon cable
has gone bad after so much use, and one end is soldered in, so not
worth fixing.
SO, I needed another external case. Best Buy had these Seagate 160GB
externals for $90. I figgered I would buy one, get another 160GB of
storage, and the case. But it's no good to me unless i can open it!
 
T

Thomas Wendell

Why not some standard extanal HD cases?? Then you put the HD of your choice
in. Cost is about 30-40eur here, and always with Philips screws...


--
Tumppi
=================================
Most learned on these newsgroups
Helsinki, FINLAND
(translations from/to FI not always accurate
=================================
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
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alternatively you could do what I have done.

I used a normal Torx security bit, size T15, and pressed down a little harder than I would normally.

The bit must have gripped the post and the spurs managed to find purchase around the inside of the 5 pointed star.



Using Firm, not excessive, pressure and turning the screwdriver slowly worked for me.
 

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