Epson Photo EX & Mottling problem!

Discussion in 'Printers' started by NM, Sep 16, 2006.

  1. NM

    NM Guest

    Hi All

    I hope somebody here can help with a little problem I am having.

    At the moment I am trying to ICC profile a Epson Stylus Photo EX using a
    X-Rite DTP41B spectrophotometer and MonacoPROFILER 4.7.2 software. PC Based!

    When I print my targets using Epson photo paper all is fine however when I
    use HP photo paper I get a distinct mottling problem on anything above 60%
    saturation. I first noticed this problem before calibration. Hence the
    motivating factor for building accurate ICC profiles.

    I am concerned that the 60% and above saturation, mottling gets steadily
    worse and that this will course an inaccurate ICC profile also its very
    noticeable on saturated colours in my digital photos. I would expect this
    problem from cheap and cheerful inkjet papers but surely not from HP Photo
    Paper which is of reasonably good quality?

    How can I reduce or even stop this mottling? Reduce the amount of ink
    hitting the paper? Any help would be appreciated.


    Many Thanks & Regards
    NM
     
    NM, Sep 16, 2006
    #1
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  2. NM

    Roy G Guest

    "NM" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi All
    >
    > I hope somebody here can help with a little problem I am having.
    >
    > At the moment I am trying to ICC profile a Epson Stylus Photo EX using a
    > X-Rite DTP41B spectrophotometer and MonacoPROFILER 4.7.2 software. PC
    > Based!
    >
    > When I print my targets using Epson photo paper all is fine however when I
    > use HP photo paper I get a distinct mottling problem on anything above 60%
    > saturation. I first noticed this problem before calibration. Hence the
    > motivating factor for building accurate ICC profiles.
    >
    > I am concerned that the 60% and above saturation, mottling gets steadily
    > worse and that this will course an inaccurate ICC profile also its very
    > noticeable on saturated colours in my digital photos. I would expect this
    > problem from cheap and cheerful inkjet papers but surely not from HP Photo
    > Paper which is of reasonably good quality?
    >
    > How can I reduce or even stop this mottling? Reduce the amount of ink
    > hitting the paper? Any help would be appreciated.
    >
    >
    > Many Thanks & Regards
    > NM
    >
    >

    Hi.

    It should be obvious to you that the HP paper is proving incompatible with
    the Ink Sets in your EX.

    This has nothing to do with any so called "Quality".

    It has to do with the inks that paper is designed for. Kodak paper also
    won't work.

    Stick to papers which get absorbed and dry without mottling.

    Roy G
     
    Roy G, Sep 16, 2006
    #2
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  3. NM

    NM Guest

    "Roy G" <> wrote in message
    news:qIGOg.27611$...
    > "NM" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Hi All
    >>
    >> I hope somebody here can help with a little problem I am having.
    >>
    >> At the moment I am trying to ICC profile a Epson Stylus Photo EX using a
    >> X-Rite DTP41B spectrophotometer and MonacoPROFILER 4.7.2 software. PC
    >> Based!
    >>
    >> When I print my targets using Epson photo paper all is fine however when
    >> I
    >> use HP photo paper I get a distinct mottling problem on anything above
    >> 60%
    >> saturation. I first noticed this problem before calibration. Hence the
    >> motivating factor for building accurate ICC profiles.
    >>
    >> I am concerned that the 60% and above saturation, mottling gets steadily
    >> worse and that this will course an inaccurate ICC profile also its very
    >> noticeable on saturated colours in my digital photos. I would expect this
    >> problem from cheap and cheerful inkjet papers but surely not from HP
    >> Photo
    >> Paper which is of reasonably good quality?
    >>
    >> How can I reduce or even stop this mottling? Reduce the amount of ink
    >> hitting the paper? Any help would be appreciated.
    >>
    >>
    >> Many Thanks & Regards
    >> NM
    >>
    >>

    > Hi.
    >
    > It should be obvious to you that the HP paper is proving incompatible with
    > the Ink Sets in your EX.
    >
    > This has nothing to do with any so called "Quality".
    >
    > It has to do with the inks that paper is designed for. Kodak paper also
    > won't work.
    >
    > Stick to papers which get absorbed and dry without mottling.
    >
    > Roy G



    Hi Roy

    Thanks for a very quick response. I'm interested as to why you think it
    should be obvious to me?

    I'm lucky enough to work for a large pre-press manufacturing company as a
    network specialist. Basically I design computer networks for clients needing
    a fast, efficient workflow, my work is mostly based upon the Harlequin /
    Global Graphics RIPS.

    Because of this job, I have built a little understanding of how the graphics
    workflow operates, which of course is only a good thing. I was lucky enough
    to borrow the ICC profiling kit for a few days but wont be able to speak to
    the pre-press specialist until Monday (when the kit needs to be returned)

    If I understand what you are saying - then my ink cartridges are not
    compatible with the paper, is that right? I am using PCLINE (common, cheep
    ink cartridges, in the UK) these cartridges work fine for Epson photopaper
    but not HP photopaper.

    Also, this problem is not only visible in my profiling patches but is
    clearly visible in fine photography (taken on a Nikon Digital SLR (D70))

    Surely there must be something I can do during calibration to reduce the
    mottling? like reducing the amount of ink hitting the paper?

    Any help would be appreciated

    Many Thanks
    Nikki
     
    NM, Sep 16, 2006
    #3
  4. NM

    Tony Guest

    "NM" <> wrote:
    >"Roy G" <> wrote in message
    >news:qIGOg.27611$...
    >> "NM" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Hi All
    >>>
    >>> I hope somebody here can help with a little problem I am having.
    >>>
    >>> At the moment I am trying to ICC profile a Epson Stylus Photo EX using a
    >>> X-Rite DTP41B spectrophotometer and MonacoPROFILER 4.7.2 software. PC
    >>> Based!
    >>>
    >>> When I print my targets using Epson photo paper all is fine however when
    >>> I
    >>> use HP photo paper I get a distinct mottling problem on anything above
    >>> 60%
    >>> saturation. I first noticed this problem before calibration. Hence the
    >>> motivating factor for building accurate ICC profiles.
    >>>
    >>> I am concerned that the 60% and above saturation, mottling gets steadily
    >>> worse and that this will course an inaccurate ICC profile also its very
    >>> noticeable on saturated colours in my digital photos. I would expect this
    >>> problem from cheap and cheerful inkjet papers but surely not from HP
    >>> Photo
    >>> Paper which is of reasonably good quality?
    >>>
    >>> How can I reduce or even stop this mottling? Reduce the amount of ink
    >>> hitting the paper? Any help would be appreciated.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Many Thanks & Regards
    >>> NM
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Hi.
    >>
    >> It should be obvious to you that the HP paper is proving incompatible with
    >> the Ink Sets in your EX.
    >>
    >> This has nothing to do with any so called "Quality".
    >>
    >> It has to do with the inks that paper is designed for. Kodak paper also
    >> won't work.
    >>
    >> Stick to papers which get absorbed and dry without mottling.
    >>
    >> Roy G

    >
    >
    >Hi Roy
    >
    >Thanks for a very quick response. I'm interested as to why you think it
    >should be obvious to me?
    >
    >I'm lucky enough to work for a large pre-press manufacturing company as a
    >network specialist. Basically I design computer networks for clients needing
    >a fast, efficient workflow, my work is mostly based upon the Harlequin /
    >Global Graphics RIPS.
    >
    >Because of this job, I have built a little understanding of how the graphics
    >workflow operates, which of course is only a good thing. I was lucky enough
    >to borrow the ICC profiling kit for a few days but wont be able to speak to
    >the pre-press specialist until Monday (when the kit needs to be returned)
    >
    >If I understand what you are saying - then my ink cartridges are not
    >compatible with the paper, is that right? I am using PCLINE (common, cheep
    >ink cartridges, in the UK) these cartridges work fine for Epson photopaper
    >but not HP photopaper.
    >
    >Also, this problem is not only visible in my profiling patches but is
    >clearly visible in fine photography (taken on a Nikon Digital SLR (D70))
    >
    >Surely there must be something I can do during calibration to reduce the
    >mottling? like reducing the amount of ink hitting the paper?
    >
    >Any help would be appreciated
    >
    >Many Thanks
    >Nikki


    Nikki
    The issue of compatibility between photo paper and ink is becoming increasingly
    complex in my opinion.
    I have had this discussion with literally hundreds of people and it is often
    very hard to convince them that a particular paper will not necessarily work
    with all inks, the reverse is also true. I guess I am sayiong that this issue
    is far from obvious to most users, even those with imaging skills. There is one
    manufacturer and formulator of compatible inks (they do not make generic inks)
    and sell into more than 20 countries and they make their own paper. Their photo
    paper works perfectly with Canon inks but not with their own inks (blotches and
    smearing) and whilst they could easily fix this by modifying the paper they
    choose not to do so for marketing reasons (they want to compete with Canon
    paper) so the whole thing becomes even more confusing.
    It is extremely unlikely that any adjustments to the profilies will improve the
    situation markedly, experimenting with different papers is my recommendation
    until you find one that suits. It would not necessarily be correct to blame
    either the ink or the paper you are using.
    Tony
     
    Tony, Sep 16, 2006
    #4
  5. NM

    Roy G Guest

    "NM" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Roy G" <> wrote in message
    > news:qIGOg.27611$...
    >> "NM" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Hi All
    >>>
    >>> I hope somebody here can help with a little problem I am having.
    >>>
    >>> At the moment I am trying to ICC profile a Epson Stylus Photo EX using a
    >>> X-Rite DTP41B spectrophotometer and MonacoPROFILER 4.7.2 software. PC
    >>> Based!
    >>>
    >>> When I print my targets using Epson photo paper all is fine however when
    >>> I
    >>> use HP photo paper I get a distinct mottling problem on anything above
    >>> 60%
    >>> saturation. I first noticed this problem before calibration. Hence the
    >>> motivating factor for building accurate ICC profiles.
    >>>
    >>> I am concerned that the 60% and above saturation, mottling gets steadily
    >>> worse and that this will course an inaccurate ICC profile also its very
    >>> noticeable on saturated colours in my digital photos. I would expect
    >>> this
    >>> problem from cheap and cheerful inkjet papers but surely not from HP
    >>> Photo
    >>> Paper which is of reasonably good quality?
    >>>
    >>> How can I reduce or even stop this mottling? Reduce the amount of ink
    >>> hitting the paper? Any help would be appreciated.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Many Thanks & Regards
    >>> NM
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Hi.
    >>
    >> It should be obvious to you that the HP paper is proving incompatible
    >> with the Ink Sets in your EX.
    >>
    >> This has nothing to do with any so called "Quality".
    >>
    >> It has to do with the inks that paper is designed for. Kodak paper also
    >> won't work.
    >>
    >> Stick to papers which get absorbed and dry without mottling.
    >>
    >> Roy G

    >
    >
    > Hi Roy
    >
    > Thanks for a very quick response. I'm interested as to why you think it
    > should be obvious to me?
    >
    > I'm lucky enough to work for a large pre-press manufacturing company as a
    > network specialist. Basically I design computer networks for clients
    > needing a fast, efficient workflow, my work is mostly based upon the
    > Harlequin / Global Graphics RIPS.
    >
    > Because of this job, I have built a little understanding of how the
    > graphics workflow operates, which of course is only a good thing. I was
    > lucky enough to borrow the ICC profiling kit for a few days but wont be
    > able to speak to the pre-press specialist until Monday (when the kit needs
    > to be returned)
    >
    > If I understand what you are saying - then my ink cartridges are not
    > compatible with the paper, is that right? I am using PCLINE (common, cheep
    > ink cartridges, in the UK) these cartridges work fine for Epson photopaper
    > but not HP photopaper.
    >
    > Also, this problem is not only visible in my profiling patches but is
    > clearly visible in fine photography (taken on a Nikon Digital SLR (D70))
    >
    > Surely there must be something I can do during calibration to reduce the
    > mottling? like reducing the amount of ink hitting the paper?
    >
    > Any help would be appreciated
    >
    > Many Thanks
    > Nikki
    >

    Hi.

    There are different kinds of paper and different kinds of ink.

    Not every paper is suitable for any one ink.

    If you can see a fault like mottling or bronzing or puddling, then you need
    to change the paper / ink combination.

    It is obvious, you can see there is a problem with HP but none with Epson.

    Try another paper, like PC World's, that might work better with their inks.
    I did say might.

    Profiling in conjunction with an effective colour managed workflow will give
    correct colour and density for your Ink / Paper combination, but you need to
    get a compatible combination first.

    And the profiling may need to be redone every so often, because Inks and
    Papers change, and your EX must be getting rather long in the tooth by now.
    They stopped making it well before 2000.

    Roy G
     
    Roy G, Sep 16, 2006
    #5
  6. NM

    zakezuke Guest

    Tony wrote:

    > >>> How can I reduce or even stop this mottling? Reduce the amount of ink
    > >>> hitting the paper? Any help would be appreciated.


    Can the Epson photo EX do that? I rather thought it had a fixed drop
    size. If i'm mistaken do let me know... I do have one but my experence
    base on it is limited. It didn't do too badly using HP paper from my
    experence using MicroWeave superX or whatever it's called.
     
    zakezuke, Sep 16, 2006
    #6
  7. Although some people will object to this, ink and paper do make a
    system. Epson and HP use different ink formulations and distribution
    patterns. HP papers are usually swellable polymer type, while most
    Epson are microporous. Epson uses a cold system with piezoelectric head
    components, HP, Canon and Lexmark use thermal heads that heat the ink to
    propel it. Simply put, the technology is not the same.

    I suggest sticking to a recommended Epson or 3rd party paper. Most HP
    papers simply will not work well with Epson printers. I'm sure they
    work very well with HP printers, however.

    Art

    NM wrote:

    > Hi All
    >
    > I hope somebody here can help with a little problem I am having.
    >
    > At the moment I am trying to ICC profile a Epson Stylus Photo EX using a
    > X-Rite DTP41B spectrophotometer and MonacoPROFILER 4.7.2 software. PC Based!
    >
    > When I print my targets using Epson photo paper all is fine however when I
    > use HP photo paper I get a distinct mottling problem on anything above 60%
    > saturation. I first noticed this problem before calibration. Hence the
    > motivating factor for building accurate ICC profiles.
    >
    > I am concerned that the 60% and above saturation, mottling gets steadily
    > worse and that this will course an inaccurate ICC profile also its very
    > noticeable on saturated colours in my digital photos. I would expect this
    > problem from cheap and cheerful inkjet papers but surely not from HP Photo
    > Paper which is of reasonably good quality?
    >
    > How can I reduce or even stop this mottling? Reduce the amount of ink
    > hitting the paper? Any help would be appreciated.
    >
    >
    > Many Thanks & Regards
    > NM
    >
    >
    >
     
    Arthur Entlich, Sep 16, 2006
    #7
  8. You can reduce the amount of ink in more dense areas, for sure, but you
    may lose all shadow density and detail to accomplish this.

    You can try taking the ink amounts down in those more dense areas, but
    as you yourself noted, the paper is not designed to handle that amount
    of ink. It would appear that the HP printers can use less inks, or are
    simply more compatible for that paper technology.

    Art

    NM wrote:

    > "Roy G" <> wrote in message
    > news:qIGOg.27611$...
    >
    >>"NM" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>
    >>>Hi All
    >>>
    >>>I hope somebody here can help with a little problem I am having.
    >>>
    >>>At the moment I am trying to ICC profile a Epson Stylus Photo EX using a
    >>>X-Rite DTP41B spectrophotometer and MonacoPROFILER 4.7.2 software. PC
    >>>Based!
    >>>
    >>>When I print my targets using Epson photo paper all is fine however when
    >>>I
    >>>use HP photo paper I get a distinct mottling problem on anything above
    >>>60%
    >>>saturation. I first noticed this problem before calibration. Hence the
    >>>motivating factor for building accurate ICC profiles.
    >>>
    >>>I am concerned that the 60% and above saturation, mottling gets steadily
    >>>worse and that this will course an inaccurate ICC profile also its very
    >>>noticeable on saturated colours in my digital photos. I would expect this
    >>>problem from cheap and cheerful inkjet papers but surely not from HP
    >>>Photo
    >>>Paper which is of reasonably good quality?
    >>>
    >>>How can I reduce or even stop this mottling? Reduce the amount of ink
    >>>hitting the paper? Any help would be appreciated.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Many Thanks & Regards
    >>>NM
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>Hi.
    >>
    >>It should be obvious to you that the HP paper is proving incompatible with
    >>the Ink Sets in your EX.
    >>
    >>This has nothing to do with any so called "Quality".
    >>
    >>It has to do with the inks that paper is designed for. Kodak paper also
    >>won't work.
    >>
    >>Stick to papers which get absorbed and dry without mottling.
    >>
    >>Roy G

    >
    >
    >
    > Hi Roy
    >
    > Thanks for a very quick response. I'm interested as to why you think it
    > should be obvious to me?
    >
    > I'm lucky enough to work for a large pre-press manufacturing company as a
    > network specialist. Basically I design computer networks for clients needing
    > a fast, efficient workflow, my work is mostly based upon the Harlequin /
    > Global Graphics RIPS.
    >
    > Because of this job, I have built a little understanding of how the graphics
    > workflow operates, which of course is only a good thing. I was lucky enough
    > to borrow the ICC profiling kit for a few days but wont be able to speak to
    > the pre-press specialist until Monday (when the kit needs to be returned)
    >
    > If I understand what you are saying - then my ink cartridges are not
    > compatible with the paper, is that right? I am using PCLINE (common, cheep
    > ink cartridges, in the UK) these cartridges work fine for Epson photopaper
    > but not HP photopaper.
    >
    > Also, this problem is not only visible in my profiling patches but is
    > clearly visible in fine photography (taken on a Nikon Digital SLR (D70))
    >
    > Surely there must be something I can do during calibration to reduce the
    > mottling? like reducing the amount of ink hitting the paper?
    >
    > Any help would be appreciated
    >
    > Many Thanks
    > Nikki
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
    Arthur Entlich, Sep 16, 2006
    #8
  9. On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 00:01:58 +0100, "NM" <>
    wrote:

    >Hi All
    >
    >I hope somebody here can help with a little problem I am having.
    >
    >At the moment I am trying to ICC profile a Epson Stylus Photo EX using a
    >X-Rite DTP41B spectrophotometer and MonacoPROFILER 4.7.2 software. PC Based!
    >
    >When I print my targets using Epson photo paper all is fine however when I
    >use HP photo paper I get a distinct mottling problem on anything above 60%
    >saturation. I first noticed this problem before calibration. Hence the
    >motivating factor for building accurate ICC profiles.
    >
    >I am concerned that the 60% and above saturation, mottling gets steadily
    >worse and that this will course an inaccurate ICC profile also its very
    >noticeable on saturated colours in my digital photos. I would expect this
    >problem from cheap and cheerful inkjet papers but surely not from HP Photo
    >Paper which is of reasonably good quality?
    >
    >How can I reduce or even stop this mottling? Reduce the amount of ink
    >hitting the paper? Any help would be appreciated.
    >
    >
    >Many Thanks & Regards
    >NM
    >


    I have both an Epson dye (R340) and pigment (C88+) printer, and
    neither of them work with any of HP's papers, even the ones that say
    'for all printers'. The HP Premium and Premium Plus do not have any
    wording on them that states that they will work with other brands. I
    have found Kodak paper does not work well in most printers either. You
    really need to use the same brand of paper for the printer that you're
    using. Some generics are more compatible than others (I've found that
    Office Depot Professional paper works fine in all the printers I've
    tried it in), but may not be as fade resistant as the brand paper.

    --

    http://www.FenrirOnline.com

    Computer services, custom metal etching,
    arts, crafts, and much more.
     
    Fenrir Enterprises, Sep 16, 2006
    #9
  10. NM

    solohans1

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    This thread didn't help me with an Epson specific printer, but the general answer was applied to my HP Photosmart 8750 printer. I never would have imaged that using an inferior or incompatible paper would produced such dramatically different results. Thank you forum for the help. Even more helpful than HP's own website.
     
    solohans1, Jan 28, 2011
    #10
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