Epson Stylus Photo 780 and Photo Paper

[chris1379]

I know it's an old printer but it has done a great job printing 8X10's
on Matte Paper- Heavyweight for me. I recently decided to try some
Epson 4X6 Photo Paper since it was on sale and it's just not working.
The pictures are too dark overall and the dark areas, especially skin
areas, are blotchy. There are no smothe transitions to different tones
in the dark areas. I am using Photoshop 7 with the Epson profiles. I
believe the problem is with the Epson profile for photopaper because I
get the same results using the Photo Paper profile on Matte. If anyone
has had good results with the 780 on Photo Paper, please let me know
how you did it. BTW, I found a set of 890 profiles that do better but
still not quite right.

Chris

 

[Paul Heslop]

I know it's an old printer but it has done a great job printing 8X10's
on Matte Paper- Heavyweight for me. I recently decided to try some
Epson 4X6 Photo Paper since it was on sale and it's just not working.
The pictures are too dark overall and the dark areas, especially skin
areas, are blotchy. There are no smothe transitions to different tones
in the dark areas. I am using Photoshop 7 with the Epson profiles. I
believe the problem is with the Epson profile for photopaper because I
get the same results using the Photo Paper profile on Matte. If anyone
has had good results with the 780 on Photo Paper, please let me know
how you did it. BTW, I found a set of 890 profiles that do better but
still not quite right.

Chris

have you tried printing with a different piece of software? I am not
familiar with your particular printer but my old epson could be awful
at times with one piece of software and ace with another, then change
paper and have to change software.

 

[Roy G]

I know it's an old printer but it has done a great job printing 8X10's
on Matte Paper- Heavyweight for me. I recently decided to try some
Epson 4X6 Photo Paper since it was on sale and it's just not working.
The pictures are too dark overall and the dark areas, especially skin
areas, are blotchy. There are no smothe transitions to different tones
in the dark areas. I am using Photoshop 7 with the Epson profiles. I
believe the problem is with the Epson profile for photopaper because I
get the same results using the Photo Paper profile on Matte. If anyone
has had good results with the 780 on Photo Paper, please let me know
how you did it. BTW, I found a set of 890 profiles that do better but
still not quite right.

Chris

Hi.

I am not too sure about your workflow, and how you are using the profiles.
Also are you actually using Epson Photo Paper, or is the older Photo Quality
Paper. (Very similar in name, but quite different for printing upon).

When printing on Epson Photo Paper, are you setting the media drop down on
the printer dialogue to "Photo Paper" and the Advanced setting to "No Colour
Management". In Photoshop you should then be selecting the Epson Profile
for Photo Paper in the Output box of the "Print with Preview" dialogue.

Sometimes with Epsons, it can be a benefit to select "Glossy Film" in the
media drop down if you seem to be getting too much ink on the media. Lots
of the 3rd party Paper manufacturers recommend that setting for their
papers, even those who supply profiles.

Roy G

 

[cvt]

I know it's an old printer but it has done a great job printing 8X10's
on Matte Paper- Heavyweight for me. I recently decided to try some
Epson 4X6 Photo Paper since it was on sale and it's just not working.
The pictures are too dark overall and the dark areas, especially skin
areas, are blotchy. There are no smothe transitions to different tones
in the dark areas. I am using Photoshop 7 with the Epson profiles. I
believe the problem is with the Epson profile for photopaper because I
get the same results using the Photo Paper profile on Matte. If anyone
has had good results with the 780 on Photo Paper, please let me know
how you did it. BTW, I found a set of 890 profiles that do better but
still not quite right.

Chris

Last epson I owned was a 1160, so this is some time ago, but if I remember
right don;t you have custom colour profiles, where you can manually select
the hue, contrast, brightness, and each ink level intensity seperately, and
save it as a profile..
I may be remembering wrong, I rarely printed olour photo's back then, epson
640 for colour, the 1160 was running on 4 shades of black for B&W photo's,
and I definately used a system like that with it, but I honestly can;t
remember if it was in PS7 or in the drivers, too long ago.

 

[Ralf R. Radermacher]

I recently decided to try some
Epson 4X6 Photo Paper since it was on sale and it's just not working.
The pictures are too dark overall and the dark areas, especially skin
areas, are blotchy. There are no smothe transitions to different tones
in the dark areas. I am using Photoshop 7 with the Epson profiles.

Sounds awfully familiar. I have the same problem with a 1290 and Photo
Paper printing from Photoshop 6 under Mac OS9 as well as CS2 under OSX.

Everything went smoothly here, for years, with a 1200 and then a 1270.
Replaced the broken 1270 by a 1290 and haven't had a decent print-out
ever since.

Just to make sure you're using what should be the correct settings under
normal circumstances, have a look here:

http://www.computer-darkroom.com/home.htm

You'll find numerous tutorials on printing with Epson printers and
various PS versions.

Oh, and please don't anyone suggest I use custom-made profiles. Using
profiles causes the problem. With the automatic colour correction of the
printer driver enabled things are as good as they get within the
limitations of this mode.

Ralf

 

[chris1379]

Yes, I have followed several tutorials on printing fom Photoshop and it
all works with Matte Paper. I have even reinstalled the PIM II (ICM
profiles) several times. I even wondered if Epson purposely botched the
Photo Paper profile to promote the more expensive Colorlife paper.
Anyway, I finally got some good results last night. I set Print Space
to "Printer Color Management" in Photoshop. In the printer dialog box,
I set Color Management to "Color Controls", mode to "Photo-Realistic",
and all sliders at zero. I don't remember if "Epson Natural Color" was
selected but I don't think so. The resulting print was almost identical
to the Matte Paper print.

 

[Ralf R. Radermacher]

Anyway, I finally got some good results last night. I set Print Space
to "Printer Color Management" in Photoshop. In the printer dialog box,
I set Color Management to "Color Controls", mode to "Photo-Realistic",
and all sliders at zero. I don't remember if "Epson Natural Color" was
selected but I don't think so. The resulting print was almost identical
to the Matte Paper print.

Your settings are a complete mess and the result is a great case of
luck. You should buy lottery tickets.

Ralf

 

[Arthur Entlich]

If you recently switched from XP to XP with SP2, that may explain the
problem. If so, go to Epson's website at www.epson.com and go to US
site, then to support and documentation, look for a new driver for your
situation.

Art

 

[Roy G]

Your settings are a complete mess and the result is a great case of
luck. You should buy lottery tickets.

Ralf

--

Hi.

You are being just a little bit unkind to chris. What you say is true, but
some people just don't believe in Colour Management.

However your comments about Profiles are almost as incorrect, unless you are
unfortunate enough to have a Printer which has a large divergance from the
average, and the canned Epson Profiles are of little use.

I use a 1290, and the Profiles which come with the Driver, and using the
workflow as shown in Digital Darkroom. I can quite happily switch between
a variety of papers, including the Epson Photo Paper and get results which
correspond to the "Proof" screen colours.

I always ensure that PS does the C.M. by selecting the correct profile in
the Print Space box, and then ensure that the Printer is set to "No Colour
Adjustment" on its Advanced Tab.

It even works with Tetenal Spectra Jet, and its 1290 Profile. My next
experiment will be with 7 Day Shop Paper, using the matching Olmec Profiles.

Roy G

 

[Ralf R. Radermacher]

However your comments about Profiles are almost as incorrect, unless you are
unfortunate enough to have a Printer which has a large divergance from the
average, and the canned Epson Profiles are of little use.

I'm quite aware that there is something awfully wrong, here. The
question is just what.

I use a 1290, and the Profiles which come with the Driver, and using the
workflow as shown in Digital Darkroom.

I always ensure that PS does the C.M. by selecting the correct profile in
the Print Space box, and then ensure that the Printer is set to "No Colour
Adjustment" on its Advanced Tab.

This is exactly how I've been using my 1200 and later the 1270.
Wonderful quality. Never a problem.

Then the 1270 broke and I replaced it with a second-hand 1290. Installed
the Epson driver for the 1290. Using the same settings as before
(correct 1290 profiles selected, of course), I haven't had a single
decent print. They're all too dark and have no detail in the shadows.
The problem occurs on two quite different computers, one with OS9 and
PS7, the other with OSX and CS2.

Letting the printer do the colour management produces results which are
OK within the limits of this mode.

I'm at a total loss and not far from simply binning the stupid thing.

Ralf

 

[Roy G]

I'm quite aware that there is something awfully wrong, here. The
question is just what.


This is exactly how I've been using my 1200 and later the 1270.
Wonderful quality. Never a problem.

Then the 1270 broke and I replaced it with a second-hand 1290. Installed
the Epson driver for the 1290. Using the same settings as before
(correct 1290 profiles selected, of course), I haven't had a single
decent print. They're all too dark and have no detail in the shadows.
The problem occurs on two quite different computers, one with OS9 and
PS7, the other with OSX and CS2.

Letting the printer do the colour management produces results which are
OK within the limits of this mode.

I'm at a total loss and not far from simply binning the stupid thing.

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany
private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

Sorry about that implied criticism.

I think you are probably right about dumping the Printer, perhaps that is
why the previous owner got rid of it.

I am very tempted to go for the R1800, its results are superb, but all my
local printing buddies seem to be going for the 2400, which seems just a
touch too expensive for me.

Roy G

 

[chris1379]

Ralf,

Have you tried Matte Paper with the Epson profile? It works wonderfully
for me. Just to clarify what I said earlier, I tried printing on Matte
Paper with the Photo Paper profile but with the paper selection set to
Matte in the driver. I got the same results as on the Photo Paper. The
dark areas are just as you described. This and the fact that the Matte
profile works fine tells me the Photo Paper profile is what's broken.

Chris

 

[chris1379]

At least the color is managed in editing and all the way to the
printing so the file is not destroyed. I have read several pages that
suggest using the printer color management with the advantage being
that you can tweak the settings to account for changes in ink and paper
formulation. It wasn't perfect for me this way but I could probably get
it very close and the results seem consistent on different photos.

Chris

 

[chris1379]

No, I am using Windows 98 on this PC but the results on my other
computer with XP were similar.

Chris

 

[chris1379]

The settings you speak of are in the printer color management and are
not available if you let PS do the color management. You select "No
Color Management" in the printer settings. Too bad you can't use a
profile and tweak it in the driver.

Chris

 

[chris1379]

OK, I broke down and bought some Premium Glossy Photo Paper. I used the
Epson profile for this paper and the results are great. I printed some
of my unedited snapshots and some test photos from various sites and it
all looks good and very closely matches the Matte paper. The surprising
part is that the Premium is cheaper per sheet if you buy 100 sheets and
it was buy 1 get 1 free. There is one other thing that puzzles me. If I
print with no margins, the image is bigger than it should be and some
of it gets cut off even though it should be an exact fit. I think it's
about a 5% increase in size. Anyone else notice this?

 

[Roy G]

OK, I broke down and bought some Premium Glossy Photo Paper. I used the
Epson profile for this paper and the results are great. I printed some
of my unedited snapshots and some test photos from various sites and it
all looks good and very closely matches the Matte paper. The surprising
part is that the Premium is cheaper per sheet if you buy 100 sheets and
it was buy 1 get 1 free. There is one other thing that puzzles me. If I
print with no margins, the image is bigger than it should be and some
of it gets cut off even though it should be an exact fit. I think it's
about a 5% increase in size. Anyone else notice this?

Hi.

Epson Premium Glossy is a much better paper than the Photo Paper, with a
wider range of colours and a brighter base.

Tetenal Spectra Jet (also called High Glossy Paper Special) is even better,
but I don't know if they supply a profile for the 780.

I have checked my collection of Profiles, but do not have any for the 780,
otherwise you could have had a different PP version which might just have
worked.

Printing without Margins. Yes, the printer does increase the size in order
to ensure that no white bits of paper show at the edges.

Windows 98. I do hope it is Second Edition, because it is well known that
S.E. was brought out to fix a number of problems in the original version.
One of the main ones was that Colour Management ( ICM) did not really work,
some say never worked to any degree.

Tweaking Colour. The best way to do this, even if you are using the correct
profile in PS is to make an Adjustment Layer in PS, and to save it with the
Image File, or just delete it afterwards. Of course, make sure you don't
"Flatten Layers" otherwise it becomes a permanent change.

Roy G