Epson introduces 8 ink tank printers

[Arthur Entlich]

The extra inks are shades of grey/black, and they are to allow someone
to print a neutral black and white image without using colored inks
which tend to cause all sorts of weird color casts. It also is more
economical in ink usage, although other aspects of having more
individual cartridges could add to costs.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

A few other comments about extra ink cartridges.

1) to improve gamut with pigment inks, sometimes adding a red or blue or
green cartridge will help, since the ink colorant is not transparent and
is indeed the color of the ink. Dye inks are transparent and often made
of mixed colors.

2) Particularly with dye printers, if the dot is small enough (like 1
picolitre, and the printer can print enough of them, there really is no
point in having more than 3 colors plus black for color images. It gets
a bit trickier for grey scale images. In general, a 1 picolitre drop is
not resolvable by an unassisted human eye.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

It's the paper that is making the inks waterproof in that case.
Microporous papers trap even water soluble inks and make the surface
waterproof. To test the ink, print on bond paper without an inkjet
surface (or use a swellable polymer surface, although seems like a waste
of good paper... ;-)

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

The new 2400 and other X800 printers use a newer more glossy Ultrachrome
ink that pretty much eliminates the differentiation between printed and
unprinted areas, according to press releases and some users.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Some of us actually sell our prints or have better things to do than
reprint our older work ever 3-5 years.

Art

 

[SleeperMan]

Some of us actually sell our prints or have better things to do than
reprint our older work ever 3-5 years.

that's even more stupid. When selling, take CD to a lab where it's cheaper
and better.
But,as i said, you go on with wise talk....i'm out since it's no use...

 

[measekite]

Some of us actually sell our prints or have better things to do than
reprint our older work ever 3-5 years.

Art

HE REALLY DOES NOT KNOW. THE HIGH QUALITY PRINTERS WE USE TODAY WERE
NOT AROUND 5 YEARS AGO SO HE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT WILL NEED REPRINTED.

 

[measekite]

The new 2400 and other X800 printers use a newer more glossy
Ultrachrome ink that pretty much eliminates the differentiation
between printed and unprinted areas, according to press releases and
some users.

Art

PRETTY MUCH IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR ALL

 

[Arthur Entlich]

You are lucky to have such a good lab available at such great prices.

Art

 

[SleeperMan]

You are lucky to have such a good lab available at such great prices.

Art

now you'll say that lab photos are less quality than printed ones...
Any photo lab can develop - make pictures from a CD now, unless you live in
kamchatka...
and it's not half cheaper, but cheaper than that. Since paper is expensive,
ink, etc....And lab photos still last quite long.

 

[CarBone]

now you'll say that lab photos are less quality than printed ones...
Any photo lab can develop - make pictures from a CD now, unless you live in
kamchatka...
and it's not half cheaper, but cheaper than that. Since paper is expensive,
ink, etc....And lab photos still last quite long.

Yes, I would say that inkjet fine art prints from certain studios are
vastly superior to photolab developers - for instance Nash Editions in
Manhattan Beach, Ca.
http://www.nasheditions.com/

 

[SleeperMan]

Yes, I would say that inkjet fine art prints from certain studios are
vastly superior to photolab developers - for instance Nash Editions in
Manhattan Beach, Ca.
http://www.nasheditions.com/

Either this is true or not would be possible to say after, say , 50 years
from now...now these artificial tests are all just approximate. But in any
case ink does fade. None at last, i'm sure that their photos are far more
expensive than lab ones.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

The type of labs you speak of are fine for 4 x 6" snapshots.

Art

 

[SleeperMan]

The type of labs you speak of are fine for 4 x 6" snapshots.

True. That's all i need.(for now...)

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I am not sure what your last sentence was supposed to read.

However, the same person who does the most respected inkjet and paper
tests, also literally wrote the book on fading in traditional
photographic papers.

In actual fact, when it comes to color, the longer lasting pigment color
inks matched with the correct papers vastly outlast even the best known
photographic color print papers.

Black and white silver printers are very archival if processed properly,
but so are black and white inkjet prints made with the right inks and
papers.

And as for the tests being approximate, although there is some truth to
this (so are the estimates for current color photo papers that show 100
year fade resistance, BTW) but in many cases with inks, the components
are already known from much earlier experiences, like the pigments used
in paintings or other older art forms. For instance, lampblack, which
is used in some pigment ink formulations for black ink colorant, is a
very old pigment and drawing using it are held in museums, and are
hundreds of years old.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Unless you enjoy the process of printing your own snaps, there is
probably little to no financial incentive to have this size printed by
inkjet printer at home. At home printing may prove more convenient than
other methods, although you can download them to a stop and have them
mailed.

Art

 

[SleeperMan]

I am not sure what your last sentence was supposed to read.

However, the same person who does the most respected inkjet and paper
tests, also literally wrote the book on fading in traditional
photographic papers.

In actual fact, when it comes to color, the longer lasting pigment
color inks matched with the correct papers vastly outlast even the
best known photographic color print papers.

Black and white silver printers are very archival if processed
properly, but so are black and white inkjet prints made with the
right inks and papers.

And as for the tests being approximate, although there is some truth
to this (so are the estimates for current color photo papers that
show 100 year fade resistance, BTW) but in many cases with inks, the
components are already known from much earlier experiences, like the
pigments used in paintings or other older art forms. For instance,
lampblack, which is used in some pigment ink formulations for black
ink colorant, is a very old pigment and drawing using it are held in
museums, and are hundreds of years old.

Art

Isn't this great....some paintings of old masters are actually hundreds of
years old without and really visual fading...
Now, all i can say is that obviously that paints aren't suitable for
printers, otherwise i bet that would be used everywhere...

 

[SleeperMan]

Unless you enjoy the process of printing your own snaps, there is
probably little to no financial incentive to have this size printed by
inkjet printer at home. At home printing may prove more convenient
than other methods, although you can download them to a stop and have
them mailed.

Art

Prints i mostly do are occasional, some for fun, some for friends...if i
give away serious shots, i always give them on CD and then it's up to
receipient what and how to cope with them. OK, i guess those who do this for
work years and years know a bit more. what pisses me off is those commercial
promises that print will last "100 years and more"...how the hell can they
be so sure if that time hasn't passed yet. Ok, they do tests, but they
simulate time and this can't be exact no matter how they try. Only time will
tell...only time...
It's same as roof on the house..,back in old days they used to "bake" clay
in the sun for 2 or even 3 years before further work, while now they do it
for 24 hours in "simulated 3 years" ovens...result is that i have 80 years
old pre-world war II roof while many of my friends change it after 30 years
or less(since they bought it later, made with new system).
It's just...you can't beat - or simulate - or anything...time. Time MUST
pass. Any chemicals - - - it's just assuming. BIG assuming. Only real thing
is experiences from years back while using old type inks,observing life of
that prints and then improving it. But, unfortunately, printers aren't 100
years old, so...
Enough smalltalk...in short, i enjoy my printer, while (i hope) you are
happy with yours. And that's all we need...right?

 

[rafe b]

Prints i mostly do are occasional, some for fun, some for friends...if i
give away serious shots, i always give them on CD and then it's up to
receipient what and how to cope with them. OK, i guess those who do this
for work years and years know a bit more. what pisses me off is those
commercial promises that print will last "100 years and more"...how the
hell can they be so sure if that time hasn't passed yet. Ok, they do
tests, but they simulate time and this can't be exact no matter how they
try. Only time will tell...only time...

There's not much on this planet that's "for certain"
There are always variables and second order effects
that weren't accounted for.

But if you care about print longevity, it's foolish to ignore
the science and the research that's already been done.
And if you don't care, it's equally foolish to denigrate
that work.


rafe b
www.terrapinphoto.com

 

[SleeperMan]

There's not much on this planet that's "for certain"
There are always variables and second order effects
that weren't accounted for.
true.



But if you care about print longevity, it's foolish to ignore
the science and the research that's already been done.

true again.

And if you don't care, it's equally foolish to denigrate
that work.

true for a third time.

but, still i think it's arogant to claim 100 years or more if not proven.
It's just an assumption - say, if they lasted 10 years and looking good,
they surely will last 90 more...bloody lie, i say.
Again i say what's foolish is have ANY kind of paper-based photo and have
NO other source of original. CDR's, DVD's are so cheap that it's really not
a problem to have 2 or 3 equal copies of most dear shots at home. In this
case you can reprint or remake paper photo at any time. We have proffesional
photographers who after done shooting, they give paper photos along with CDR
copy. In this way you can ither order photos anytime or make them by
yourself anytime.


BTW...your web page is still not accessible :-((