editing EXIF & meta data

[windsurferLA]

I use Microsoft Digital Image Suite 10 under WinXP pro to edit photos. I
use Picasa to scroll through thumb nail images.

WinXP allows one to view the EXIF meta data associated with a .jpg image
by opening the Properties / Advanced dialog box. Among the data listed
is Title, Subject and Keywords. How can I edit this meta data and then
search for images based on the title or subject?

Although Picasa allows one to associate data (such as title) with an
image, Picassa seems to place the information in a separate data file
and not with the image.

 

[Yves Alarie]

I think you have to decide.
Enter the data you want in the software you want to use to search.
They all work differently. Same old story: pros/cons.
In my view, XP is the least desirable. Digital Image Suite is very good and
is much better than Picasa to edit images. No comparison. However, Picasa is
very good for time line display of images and it opens all thumbnails in all
your folders so you can browse through them easily.
Title, Subject and Keywords in XP are not meta data from your camera file
(EXIF file). If you want to edit the EXIF file you can search the Internet
for something like "editing EXIF file" or "reading EXIF file". Lots of
software available to do this.

 

[windsurferLA]

I think you have to decide.
Enter the data you want in the software you want to use to search.
They all work differently. Same old story: pros/cons.
In my view, XP is the least desirable. Digital Image Suite is very good and
is much better than Picasa to edit images. No comparison. However, Picasa is
very good for time line display of images and it opens all thumbnails in all
your folders so you can browse through them easily.
Title, Subject and Keywords in XP are not meta data from your camera file
(EXIF file). If you want to edit the EXIF file you can search the Internet
for something like "editing EXIF file" or "reading EXIF file". Lots of
software available to do this.

Yves - You said, "Title, Subject and Keywords in XP are not meta data
from your camera file." If it is not meta data stored with the image
file, where is the information stored? How does one edit the, "Title,
Subject and Keywords" displayed by WinXP explorer.

 

[Yves Alarie]

When you enter something in these fields (title, subject, keywords) it
becomes "metadata" of the file as you save this file. Metadata from your
camera file are listed when you click the Advanced button of the Summary
tab.
You can search with XP for some of these entered properties. Note the camera
model as listed there. Then click on Start, Search, Photos and type in the
camera model. XP will return all photos taken with this camera.

Deciding on the system to use is not that easy. Entering data for each photo
is a royal pain. Of XP, DIP10 and Picasa, I prefer DIP10 to do this because
it has more options.
I would suggest you try all three with half a dozen pictures and see what
you like best.

 

[windsurferLA]

I'm sorry to sound dense, but I still can't seem to edits of the title,
subject, keyword fields to cross over between applcations.

I have Microsoft's Digital Image Suite 10 which includes Digital Image
Pro and the Microsoft Digital Image Library (DIL for short). Using the
Microsoft Digital Image Library, you can add keywords to an image. If
you then look at the advanced properties using WinXP Explorer, it does
not show those keywords.

I just finally figured out how to use WinXP Explorer to edit the title,
subject, keyword fields. (Previously I had never tried double clicking
on the field.) If you then try examining the same image using Microsoft
Digital Image Library, the Title entered using WinXP Explorer doesn't
show up even after my machine has had time to re-index the images.
(Perhaps I did not wait long enough???)

What am I missing? Are these two applications using different meta data
fields associated with the same .jpg image?

Thanks in advance.

When you enter something in these fields (title, subject, keywords) it
becomes "metadata" of the file as you save this file. Metadata from your
camera file are listed when you click the Advanced button of the Summary
tab.
You can search with XP for some of these entered properties. Note the camera
model as listed there. Then click on Start, Search, Photos and type in the
camera model. XP will return all photos taken with this camera.

Deciding on the system to use is not that easy. Entering data for each photo
is a royal pain. Of XP, DIP10 and Picasa, I prefer DIP10 to do this because
it has more options.
I would suggest you try all three with half a dozen pictures and see what
you like best.


Picasa is

See top for latest iteration.

 

[Yves Alarie]

You are far from "dense" and this is a friendly site for a beginner to ask
any question to learn about anything with photos on XP.
You did get the correct idea, you cannot cross over. XP will read XP.
Digital Image Library will read Digital Image Library, Picasa will read
Picasa, etc, this means any entry you make is specific to the software you
make it in and can be read only with the software you selected. All of them
will read the metadata associated with the picture file itself (made by your
camera, accessible from Properties etc. as you already know) but when you
add some "metadata" with specific software it is not added to the list of
metadata made by your camera and accessible from Properties,etc. It is
accessible only with the software you used to create it.
I think you are doing the right thing. Experiment with some photos and see
what you like best and then decide.

 

[John Inzer]

Keywords added in MS Digital Image Library
should be available on the Summary tab when viewing
in Windows Explorer and vice-versa...however...
if you select multiples in Windows Explorer and
add keywords it will overwrite the previous entries.

The following info may be useful to you:

========================================
========================================
How to find the Database for MS Digital Image Library.
========================================
If you have lots of images cataloged, it would be a
good idea to backup the "Pictures.pod" file on a CD...

Each user's database is located in their Application
Data directory (typically C:\Documents and Settings\
<username>\Application Data\Microsoft\POD). The
database is named Pictures.pod by default (though
if a database corruption has occurred, then we will
create new files with incremented names in that same
location).

The user's Application Data directory is a hidden
directory, so users will have to turn on "show hidden
files" in order to see the directory in Explorer. The
actual location of the directory is also stored by the
system in the %APPDATA% environment variable,
so you can get to the folder by going to Start/Run and
typing:

"%APPDATA%\Microsoft\Pod" (without the quotes)
========================================
========================================
========================================

 

[Yves Alarie]

This has never worked well for me. So I don't recommend crossing over.

 

[John Inzer]

I understand...and our text only method of
communication doesn't make things any easier.

 

[yves alarie]

I agree. Maybe not too bad, at least between XP and DIP 10. But not between
XP and Picasa. Picasa has a mind of its own.

For the benefit of the original poster and maybe some interested others,
here is the crossover.
When using XP to enter data you can find the data in DIP 10 as follows:

XP entries will become the following when you read them in DIP10

TITLE will become CAPTION
SUBJECT anything entered here in XP is not available in DIP10
AUTHOR will become AUTHOR
KEYWORD will become KEYWORD
COMMENTS will become DESCRIPTION
So, not so bad.
However, none of the Flags or Rating entered in DIP 10 will be readable in
XP.

My personal preference is to use DIP 10 for everything. I like it better
also because you can easily edit the date picture taken when adding this
kind of metadata to the file and this is nice for scanned pictures.
Furthermore, it is a lot faster adding this kind of data to your photo files
using DIP 10 than using XP.

 

[Geoff Coupe]

You did get the correct idea, you cannot cross over. XP will read XP.
Digital Image Library will read Digital Image Library, Picasa will read
Picasa, etc, this means any entry you make is specific to the software
you
make it in and can be read only with the software you selected. All of
them
will read the metadata associated with the picture file itself (made by
your
camera, accessible from Properties etc. as you already know) but when you
add some "metadata" with specific software it is not added to the list of
metadata made by your camera and accessible from Properties,etc. It is
accessible only with the software you used to create it.

This isn't necessarily so. There is an industry standard for picture
metadata: IPTC-IIM, which has been around for years. Now the next generation
of the standard, based on XML, has just been published. See
http://www.iptc.org/IPTC4XMP/index.php

While EXIF is an industry standard for digital camera information, IPTC-IIM
and IPTC-XMP are specifications to define information about the picture in
terms of who took it, where it was taken, what the subject is, etc.

Picasa 2 supports IPTC in the sense that it can search all of the metadata,
and a limited subset of the fields can be edited from within Picasa. Used in
conjunction with PixVue (www.pixvue.com), which adds full read and write
support for IPTC and XMP into Windows XP, and you have two products working
with the same standard.

There are a number of other cataloguing products that understand IPTC. These
include PicaJet, iView Media Pro and PhotoShop Organizer.

Editors that support IPTC include Photoshop Elements and PhotoShop CS.

Increasingly, Microsoft's products are looking like the odd ones out because
they don't as yet support IPTC standards.

- Geoff Coupe

 

[windsurferLA]

This isn't necessarily so. There is an industry standard for picture
metadata: IPTC-IIM, which has been around for years. Now the next generation
of the standard, based on XML, has just been published. See
http://www.iptc.org/IPTC4XMP/index.php

While EXIF is an industry standard for digital camera information, IPTC-IIM
and IPTC-XMP are specifications to define information about the picture in
terms of who took it, where it was taken, what the subject is, etc.

Picasa 2 supports IPTC in the sense that it can search all of the metadata,
and a limited subset of the fields can be edited from within Picasa. Used in
conjunction with PixVue (www.pixvue.com), which adds full read and write
support for IPTC and XMP into Windows XP, and you have two products working
with the same standard.

There are a number of other cataloguing products that understand IPTC. These
include PicaJet, iView Media Pro and PhotoShop Organizer.

Editors that support IPTC include Photoshop Elements and PhotoShop CS.

Increasingly, Microsoft's products are looking like the odd ones out because
they don't as yet support IPTC standards.

- Geoff Coupe

Geoff ... You wrote that Picasa " can search all of the metadata." Does
that mean that when I enter a text in the Picasa search field, it will
identify all photos containing that term within any metadata field? It
did not work for me, but I may not have given Picasa enough time to
index the anotated images.

How does Picasa differ from Preclick which is another program that
supposedly allows one to edit meta data?

Thanks for help.

 

[windsurferLA]

I agree. Maybe not too bad, at least between XP and DIP 10. But not between
XP and Picasa. Picasa has a mind of its own.

For the benefit of the original poster and maybe some interested others,
here is the crossover.
When using XP to enter data you can find the data in DIP 10 as follows:

XP entries will become the following when you read them in DIP10

TITLE will become CAPTION
SUBJECT anything entered here in XP is not available in DIP10
AUTHOR will become AUTHOR
KEYWORD will become KEYWORD
COMMENTS will become DESCRIPTION
So, not so bad.
However, none of the Flags or Rating entered in DIP 10 will be readable in
XP.

My personal preference is to use DIP 10 for everything. I like it better
also because you can easily edit the date picture taken when adding this
kind of metadata to the file and this is nice for scanned pictures.
Furthermore, it is a lot faster adding this kind of data to your photo files
using DIP 10 than using XP.

My thanks to all those who have contributed to this info exchange. It
is beginning to clear things up for me.. But another question...

After trying several of these photo organizing programs, I find that my
hard drive is littered with lots of image files and directories
beginning with the hash or number symbol "#" . Can someone tell me
which program might be generating these files? I discovered them when
exploring the capabilities of "Preclick." How can one expeditiously get
rid of the zero size directories beginning with # as WinXP search does
not find them?

 

[Yves Alarie]

Not coming from XP, DIP10 or Picasa.
When you edit with Picasa, it adds a Picasa.ini file in the folder of the
edited files and if you remove red eye it adds an original file in the
folder so you can undo red eye if you want. The ini file is a text file
containing the code of the changes made for all the files in the folder. You
normally can't see this file, it is a hidden file. But if you want to see
it, click on Tools on your top bar, Folder options and View. Scroll down and
check the box Show hidden files and folders. You can then open the file
(just double click on it) to read how Picasa codes the changes. It will be a
very very small file size. If you search with XP, you would have to add the
search hidden files option to find such files.
I don't know anything about Preclick. So I can't say that these added #
files are coming from it and if they show zero it is probably because they
are very very small.

 

[Geoff Coupe]

Geoff ... You wrote that Picasa " can search all of the metadata." Does
that mean that when I enter a text in the Picasa search field, it will
identify all photos containing that term within any metadata field? It
did not work for me, but I may not have given Picasa enough time to index
the anotated images.

Are you using Picasa version 2? Picasa version 1 did not have this
capability.

If you are indeed using version 2, then there must be something else going
on - perhaps the program you are using to supposedly edit IPTC metadata
isn't doing it correctly.

I just know that if I use PixVue to edit IPTC metadata, then Picasa can
search all the fields and return valid hits.

How does Picasa differ from Preclick which is another program that
supposedly allows one to edit meta data?

I don't know Preclick, so I can't comment. But I would say that Picasa 2 in
its current incarnation has extremely limited capability to edit meta data
(basically just the Label field - equates to the IPTC Description field -
and Keyword field). That's why I use PixVue to edit metadata.

- Geoff Coupe

 

[windsurferLA]

I'm using Picasa Ver 2.0.0 Build 18.77 . I note that I seem to be able
to assign multiple labels to the same image file, but I've yet been able
to use Picasa to enter labeling information that can be seen by WinXP
Explorer or vice-versa. I'm going to try PixVue as soon as I'm certain
that I have a reliable site as a download source.

Windsurfer.