Does any software work with Vista?

[Stephan Rose]

If that perfectly functional program you bought a month ago for XP worked
fine, but did not follow even the standards for XP (many don't), I would not
expect it to work under Vista - where the standards are being enforced.

Too bad if you have that particular program. It is up to the purchaser of
said program, and the company that released it in the sorry condition that
it is, to resolve the problem

Well the company would be called Microsoft and the program is called
Visual Studio 2005 which will not run correctly under Vista.

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

kimi no koto omoidasu hi nante nai no wa
kimi no koto wasureta toki ga nai kara

 

[Richard Urban]

Well, you know what you have to do! Older versions of Office may not work
well either. It is up to Microsoft to decide how they want to handle
problems.

I can say that at least Vista isn't biased to accept just any of their
(Microsoft's) products, over those of the competition. Wouldn't the
regulators have a field day with that scenario.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Stephan Rose]

Well, you know what you have to do! Older versions of Office may not work
well either. It is up to Microsoft to decide how they want to handle
problems.

I can say that at least Vista isn't biased to accept just any of their
(Microsoft's) products, over those of the competition. Wouldn't the
regulators have a field day with that scenario.

Well yea but I find it pathetic that their own operating system can't
properly run their own software...

Oh yea..right..I can spend a few thousand $'s and "upgrade" to new
versions that have no new benefits except that they actually run...

Seriously, how long do you think people will put up with that?

I personally don't see corporations wanting to upgrade dozens of
computers and all software on them JUST so they get working systems
again with no added benefit...
--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

kimi no koto omoidasu hi nante nai no wa
kimi no koto wasureta toki ga nai kara

 

[Richard Urban]

The fact is, when Apple changed over their O/S a few years back, that is
exactly what "everyone" did. Nothing old would work.

Apple got through it.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Conor]

Oh yea..right..I can spend a few thousand $'s and "upgrade" to new
versions that have no new benefits except that they actually run...

Seriously, how long do you think people will put up with that?

So far, 20 years and counting.

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

Stephan

XP had all sorts of compatibility issues when first released, just like
Vista does now.. it always happens like this, and always has..

Microsoft are not sole bad guys here, and should not be solely blamed..

If the author of a program deliberatly prevents the user from running
it on a higher version software even though the operating system would
run it just fine, then no...that's not the fault of the operating
system.


If they work perfectly fine, stable, and reliably on the modern
operating system of 1 month ago there is nothing unreasonable
expecting them to work on the new operating system as well.

It's not an impossible thing to do, MS simply doesn't *want* it.

But who gets to suffer from it? The users and other companies
dependant on it.

I actually have software I have developed that will not run under
Vista because the 3rd party USB security key we use (and no, there are
no viable alternatives with the specs I need, I was happy I even found
that one) will not work under Vista.

The funniest thing is, that key doesn't even use proprietary drivers!
It uses MS' own smartcard drivers...which won't work under Vista
apparently.


Well with all honesty, if the only new "feature" on a program is "it
now runs on the new operating system" then it isn't a new product, its
a rip-off.

If the company doesn't have enough innovation to actually release REAL
new products that actually have new features that are beneficial to
the user then maybe they SHOULD suicide as obviously they are no
longer capable of staying in business.

That smells awfully like vista, lots of problems in a shiny new
package with no actual beneficial features.


Personally I like my PC very much and it is everything I like it to
be, especially without vista on it.


Yup, it was known as XP.
--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

kimi no koto omoidasu hi nante nai no wa
kimi no koto wasureta toki ga nai kara

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Stephan Rose]

So far, 20 years and counting.

Yea but during those 20 years things actually evolved and improved. Each
release of each operating system was more stable and more reliable.

This is something I am not seeing in this case.

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™ã²ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸæ™‚ãŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰

 

[Stephan Rose]

Stephan

XP had all sorts of compatibility issues when first released, just like
Vista does now.. it always happens like this, and always has..

Microsoft are not sole bad guys here, and should not be solely blamed..

Ya know what, I even agree with you on that.

Do I expect some issues when switching to a new operating systems? Sure.
Were there issues when I switched to Kubuntu? Yup.
Were there issues when I switched to XP many years ago? Yup.
Are both issues combined remotely comparable to what MS is dumping on us
with Vista? In my opinion, not even close.

When I switched to XP, I can't really think of any significant piece of
software that didn't work with it. Matter of fact, due to the compatibility
mode option in XP more older software worked with it than with w2k.

Microsofts *own* software (Namely Visual Studio, SQL Server) not working
with Vista is inexcusable. I am sorry but there just is absolutely no
defense for it. It's their own software for crying out loud!

I'm a programmer so especially the first tool is my bread and butter! And
even SQL Server, I have applications that depend on a local SQL
Installation to work for their databases. So even if the application runs,
I am still screwed if SQL Server won't.

Then the draconian anti-piracy measures which are a complete insult to every
honest customer....I don't *ever* want to have to call the company I paid
good money to in order to re-activate my software just because I changed my
hardware. It hasn't even anything to do with time, it's a simple matter of
principle. It's insulting to treat every user like a potential criminal and
make them constantly prove that their copy is valid. Plus if it is
actually true that Vista can decide on a whim to go into some reduced
functionality mode because it thinks one if its files is being tampered
with, that makes me sick to my stomach. I rather not even find out if that
really is the case, at least not first-hand.

Add some DRM to the mix...

Stir in lacking hardware support...being compatible to XP drivers is really
not too much to ask for.

What do you get? Recipe for disaster that is Vista.

Seriously, I've been a strong MS Supporter for years. When they released
the .Net Framework I embraced it and C# with open arms despite its
performance penalties in return for its ease of use and other assorted
features that made it worth using. I even started using it when it was
still in beta for production apps, that is how much I liked it.

XP as an operating system I absolutely loved.

But Vista?

My response to it...

- Switched to Kubuntu
- Switching my embedded WinCE project that I am starting to Linux because I
don't want to be dependant on a windows development environment because of
that one project. Plus I got somewhat ticked off when I found out that VS
2005 can't create CE Projects, only smart-phones and PDA stuff forcing me
to use the outdated eVC++.
- Switched my .Net 2.0 MDX Based app that was nearing its development Cycle
to a cross-platform compatible solution based on OpenGL setting me back
about 2 months, but it will be worth it in the end.
- Any future systems, be they work stations, home systems, servers, etc.
will not be windows based if I can at all help it. At best, I'll keep a
windows system around for testing purposes.

I pretty much turned around 180 degrees and walked away...didn't look back
once.

It would costs me thousands of $s to upgrade all my machines to Vista if I
include all the hardware upgrade costs and other software costs on top of
the operating system cost.

For the only benefit that it now runs on a different OS with a different UI?
No thanks.

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™ã²ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸæ™‚ãŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰

 

[Conor]

Yea but during those 20 years things actually evolved and improved. Each
release of each operating system was more stable and more reliable.

This is something I am not seeing in this case.

Then you're blind and stupid.

 

[Conor]

But Vista?

My response to it...

- Switched to Kubuntu

ROFLMFAO.

You complain about software compatibility issues then install Linux.

And you're not a troll?

Yeah right.

 

[Stephan Rose]

Then you're blind and stupid.

Allright, I'll bite...what are the improvements?

Don't say Aero...Eye candy at the expense of half my computers resources
isn't an improvement.

UAC? I don't need to be babysat every mouse click I do.

DRM? That sure as hell isn't an improvement of any kind.

So...what's better?


--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™ã²ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸæ™‚ãŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰

 

[Stephan Rose]

ROFLMFAO.

You complain about software compatibility issues then install Linux.

I complain about software compatibility between XP and Vista.

I do not expect compatibility between different operating systems that are
in no way related to one another.

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™ã²ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸæ™‚ãŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

Stephan

The Visual Studio 2005 issue is a faux pas for sure, and you are not alone
in your comments regarding that.. but it will be fixed and hopefully soon..

The activation issue is only a problem because everything was so slack
before.. the time when you could throw a couple of bucks in a hat being
passed around an apartment block and all get a working copy of Windows has
gone.. the only reason that Win 2000 never suffered like that was because
users couldn't just hit 'Cancel' to get by the password..

The reduced functionality does not just kick in after a file change.. Vista
can be reset 3 times as far as I am aware before it finally locks the user
out for non-activation.. it is assumed that most will phone in before then..

DRM is NOT enforced by Vista..DRM is instituted by media companies, and
according to the terms laid down by the Media companies, Vista enables DRM
material to be played..

Hardware support comes from hardware manufacturers supplying drivers that
work.. presently, some people happen to have a combination of hardware
devices for which there seems to be little or no support, and in worst
cases, none promised.. I obviously gotten lucky in that all devices of mine
work ok, although I am dogged a little by video drivers not being as good as
they should be..

Microsoft are well aware that Vista itself has issues, and they were very
quick to announce that Vista SP1 was in the making.. it will take time, but
has been promised..

As with any product that pushes the boundary out more, there are going to be
teething troubles.. some functions that we have grown used to will be
missing, some functions will appear that we do not yet fully understand, and
some functions just won't function at all.. but we will look back one day,
just as we all did with XP, and things won't look so bad.. that day will be
called "Good Morning, Windows Vienna" or whatever they call the next release
finally..




Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Dale]

DRM is NOT enforced by Vista..DRM is instituted by media companies, and
according to the terms laid down by the Media companies, Vista enables DRM
material to be played..

That's not accurate. If Microsoft had done nothing with DRM in Vista, we
would still have been able to play HD-DVD in Vista. All we really need
Vista for in playing a DVD is to spin the drive and collect the bits. The
market would have taken care of all the rest. Microsoft is in DRM because
they choose to be and because it is profitable for them to be.

Hardware support comes from hardware manufacturers supplying drivers that
work.. presently, some people happen to have a combination of hardware
devices for which there seems to be little or no support, and in worst
cases, none promised.. I obviously gotten lucky in that all devices of
mine work ok, although I am dogged a little by video drivers not being as
good as they should be..

Microsoft are well aware that Vista itself has issues, and they were very
quick to announce that Vista SP1 was in the making.. it will take time,
but has been promised..

That sort of makes RTM look like RC3, doesn't it?


Dale

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

Dale

DRM starts with the media itself..

No, Vista is definitely RTM, and the problems facing some will be overcome
just as they were with XP.. presumably, you were saying much the same thing
back in 2002?

That's not accurate. If Microsoft had done nothing with DRM in Vista, we
would still have been able to play HD-DVD in Vista. All we really need
Vista for in playing a DVD is to spin the drive and collect the bits. The
market would have taken care of all the rest. Microsoft is in DRM because
they choose to be and because it is profitable for them to be.


That sort of makes RTM look like RC3, doesn't it?


Dale

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Guest]

Could you explain in very simple terms how to do this?? I think you have
answered my question, but I can't follow how to do this myself.
Thanks

 

[ptauger]

Could you explain in very simple terms how to do this?? I think you have
answered my question, but I can't follow how to do this myself.
Thanks

This is a two-step.

Step one: install as adminsrator and in XP compatability mode. In
Explorer (not Internet Explorer, but Explorer -- right click the Start
button) find the executable file (usually something like setup.exe) on
the CD, right click on it and select Properties. Select the
Compatability tab and select Run as Administrator and XP Compatability
mode (XP Compatability mode usually will be needed only if the
software installs drivers or bypasses Vista's entrance points). Then
run the setup program and let it complete.

Step two: Once the software has installed, go back into Explorer and
find the program executable. It's usually under the Program Files
directory (you may have to "unhide" it in the Folders settings). In
Program Files, you'll find directories with, usually, the name of the
publisher of your program. Inside the publisher's folder, you'll find
the executable file. Usually, it will be in the form of [name of
program].exe or, I suppose, [name of program].com. Right click on it
and set compatability mode and run as administrator.

That's worked for most everything.

Note that, in some cases, it was necessary to uninstall the dopey demo
software ("crapware") that was installed by Sony on my new laptop.
WinDVD 8 wouldn't install until the crippleware version was removed.
Harder to deal with was installing Microsoft Office 2003, which
required removing every trace of Office 2007 Crapware version.

I'm pretty good with computers and it took me a while to work all of
this out (my computer came with no documentation whatsoever). Vista's
folders hierarchy is similar to XP Pro, and I have a pretty good idea
what's going on in a computer. I can't imagine what a novice would do
if presented, as I was, with a nice new laptop that didn't even have
the power button identified, not to mention Vista installed.

 

[Conor]

Allright, I'll bite...what are the improvements?

Don't say Aero...Eye candy at the expense of half my computers resources
isn't an improvement.

UAC? I don't need to be babysat every mouse click I do.

DRM? That sure as hell isn't an improvement of any kind.

So...what's better?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_features_new_to_Windows_Vista

 

[Conor]

I complain about software compatibility between XP and Vista.

I do not expect compatibility between different operating systems that are
in no way related to one another.

So what the hell are you complaining about then? Software which
currently has problems with Vista is due to the fact it was written
using bad practices in the first place.

 

[Stephan Rose]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_features_new_to_Windows_Vista

Audio Devices Support: Yea so good that EAX doesn't work on my soundcard via
DirectX (fine with OpenAL though)...according to Creative Labs themselves.
I have no problem taking the manufacturers word on that.

Speech Crap: I have absolutely NO need to talk to my computer. If I talk to
it then the only things I have to say to it are things it probably doesn't
want to hear anyway. =)

Ipv6?? Don't need vista for that either, ubuntu supports it just fine.

There isn't a single thing listed on that page I actually particularly care
about. Most certainly not even remotely enough to make me want to use it.

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™ã²ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸæ™‚ãŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰