Did Microsoft Make a two way firewall with Vista Home Premium?

[Guest]

I am buying a new desktop with Vista Premium and it will have 4 gig of
Kingston Memory. My problem is that I know nothing about Vista an would like
to know if they did a better job on the firewall than in XP? I now use Norton
Internet Suite 2008 and Norton Systemworks 2008 in my laptop with XP. Can I
install both Norton products in the desktop with Vista premium and not have
any problems with Windows defender. Also the desktop has AMD Athlon 64 X2
5000. Thanks for the help an time, I just don't want to mess up my new PC.
All have a great an safe day an weekend. Does Microsoft have a web site that
will give me info on what I can add to Vista an what I should not add??

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

Norton comes with its own firewall. It will automatically
disable Vista's firewall so you should not have a problems.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User

---------------------------------------------------------------

I am buying a new desktop with Vista Premium and it will have 4 gig of
Kingston Memory. My problem is that I know nothing about Vista an would like
to know if they did a better job on the firewall than in XP? I now use Norton
Internet Suite 2008 and Norton Systemworks 2008 in my laptop with XP. Can I
install both Norton products in the desktop with Vista premium and not have
any problems with Windows defender. Also the desktop has AMD Athlon 64 X2
5000. Thanks for the help an time, I just don't want to mess up my new PC.
All have a great an safe day an weekend. Does Microsoft have a web site that
will give me info on what I can add to Vista an what I should not add??

 

[Kayman]

I am buying a new desktop with Vista Premium and it will have 4 gig of
Kingston Memory. My problem is that I know nothing about Vista an would like
to know if they did a better job on the firewall than in XP?

You are not going to find anything better than the Vista FW and Vista in
itself due to the advanced features the FW and Vista are using.

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/columns/cableguy/cg0905.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/network/WFP.mspx

Jesper's Blog
http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2007/07/19/at-least-this-snake-oil-is-free.aspx
http://blogs.technet.com/jesper_johansson/archive/2006/05/01/426921.aspx

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/06/VistaFirewall/default.aspx
"If you try to block outbound connections from a computer that’s already
compromised, how can you be sure that the computer is really doing what you
ask? The answer: you can’t. Outbound protection is security theater—it’s a
gimmick that only gives the impression of improving your security without
doing anything that actually does improve your security. This is why
outbound protection didn’t exist in the Windows XP firewall and why it
doesn’t exist in the Windows Vista™ firewall."

Vista Firewall Control
http://sphinx-soft.com/Vista/

I now use Norton Internet Suite 2008 and Norton Systemworks 2008 in my laptop
with XP.

You're one of the lucky ones The retail version of Norton can play havoc
with the OS. A number of experts agree that the retail AV version of
McAfee, Norton and Trend Micro has become cumbersome and bloated for the
average user.

Can I install both Norton products in the desktop with Vista premium
and not have any problems with Windows defender.

You sure can.

Also the desktop has AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000. Thanks for the help an time, I just
don't want to mess up my new PC.

A very useful application for any new pc is the PC Decrapifier, it attempts
to remove all of the crap on your PC that you never asked for or ...
http://www.pcdecrapifier.com/

All have a great an safe day an weekend. Does Microsoft have a web site that
will give me info on what I can add to Vista an what I should not add??

Google is your friend; Good luck

 

[Bruce Chambers]

I am buying a new desktop with Vista Premium and it will have 4 gig of
Kingston Memory. My problem is that I know nothing about Vista an would like
to know if they did a better job on the firewall than in XP?

Yes, they did. It's not quite up to the ease-of-use standards of Kerio
or ZoneAlarm, but it has been improved.

There are two interfaces for Vistas built-in firewall:

1) A simplified one accessed through the Control Panel that is the only
one most people see. Sphinx's Vista Firewall Control
http://sphinx-soft.com/Vista/) is a piece of freeware that makes the
Vista Firewall much more useful to the average user.

2) And the more advanced "Windows Firewall with Advanced Security
(WF.msc), accessed via the Start Menu's Administrative Tools folder, for
the experienced user who wants more granular control.

I now use Norton
Internet Suite 2008 and Norton Systemworks 2008 in my laptop with XP. Can I
install both Norton products in the desktop with Vista premium and not have
any problems with Windows defender.

I wouldn't count on installing any Norton product on any OS and not
having problems. However, check with Symantec to determine if those
products are safe to use on Vista. In particular, SystemWorks is pretty
much worthless. Once a useful utility suite, back in the days of
MS-DOS, when Peter Norton was more than a picture on the box, Norton
Utilities (now marketed as SystemWorks) have been becoming increasingly
useless and redundant over the years. There's little offered by NU/SW
that Vista cannot already do natively. And some of its features, like
CrashGuard and CleanSweep (if they're still included) cause far more
problems then they prevent.





--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

 

[Rob Harmer]

Don't forget that Vista is also sending a hell of a lot more telemetry data
out when it phones home as well!
see what else Vista is harvesting off your PC
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Forg...s-Harvest-User-Data-for-Microsoft-58752.shtml

Don't forget to check out the vulnerabilities with Teredo IPv6 as well
see
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-v6ops-teredo-security-concerns-00.txt
and http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/reference/Teredo_Security.pdf
and http://www.securiteam.com/securityreviews/6C00O2KHFK.html and
http://www.symantec.com/enterprise/...g/2007/03/rtm_edition_of_windows_vista_n.html

Rob

 

[NetLink_Blue]

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/06/VistaFirewall/default.aspx
"If you try to block outbound connections from a computer that’s already
compromised, how can you be sure that the computer is really doing what
you
ask? The answer: you can’t.

LOL - what beautiful Homer Simpson logic! Umm ... doughnuts.

Building and enabling a 2-way firewall as part of Windows would make a
support-hairball for Microsoft the likes of which hasn't been seen on Earth
yet.

Windows Geniune Advantage would be exposed - nekked to the world,
continually asking to phone-home. Folks would realize that everytime they
do a file search on their computers, Microsoft is listening in. The exposed
collection of "helpful" Windows OS calls to Redmond would make a lot of
folks start acting like Steve Ballmer. Now THAT is scarey. :~P

Outbound protection is security theater—it’s a
gimmick that only gives the impression of improving your security without
doing anything that actually does improve your security. This is why
outbound protection didn’t exist in the Windows XP firewall and why it
doesn’t exist in the Windows Vista™ firewall."

Someone, please SLAP Homer Simpson for the above baloney. Thanks.

netlink

 

[Straight Talk]

Building and enabling a 2-way firewall as part of Windows would make a
support-hairball for Microsoft the likes of which hasn't been seen on Earth
yet.

Maybe. But not for the reasons you assume.

Windows Geniune Advantage would be exposed - nekked to the world,
continually asking to phone-home. Folks would realize that everytime they
do a file search on their computers, Microsoft is listening in. The exposed
collection of "helpful" Windows OS calls to Redmond would make a lot of
folks start acting like Steve Ballmer. Now THAT is scarey. :~P

Not at all. See, MS is in charge of the OS kernel. If they want to
phone home without ANY software firewall noticing it, they can just do
so.

If you don't trust MS you have no choice but to not run windows. It's
that simple.

Someone, please SLAP Homer Simpson for the above baloney. Thanks.

Someone please educate yourself about the windows platform design to
understand why outbound protection *is* security theater.

 

[NetLink_Blue]

Maybe. But not for the reasons you assume.

I'm listening, Straight Talk. Give me some of your reasons.

Not at all. See, MS is in charge of the OS kernel. If they want to
phone home without ANY software firewall noticing it, they can just do
so.

Are you confirming that MS is doing this? Maybe that recent "stealth"
update on Windows OS update files themselves?

If you don't trust MS you have no choice but to not run windows. It's
that simple.

More bee-autiful Homer Simpson logic. What OS would you recommend, Homer?
How about MS customers continueing keeping an eye on MS, and being careful.
That's not an option for you? Fine. It's an option for me, Straight Talk.


netlink

 

[Straight Talk]

I'm listening, Straight Talk. Give me some of your reasons.



Are you confirming that MS is doing this?

No. I'm saying they can easily do so if they want to. Also without any
personal firewall illusionware noticing it.

Maybe that recent "stealth" update on Windows OS update files themselves?



More bee-autiful Homer Simpson logic.

Get out of your cartoon world and into the real one.

What OS would you recommend, Homer?

I'm not Homer.

How about MS customers continueing keeping an eye on MS, and being careful.
That's not an option for you? Fine. It's an option for me, Straight Talk.

I'm not the one complaining here, am I? I have no problem using MS
products. Thing is, your idea of being in control is flawed.

 

[NetLink_Blue]

I'm not the one complaining here, am I?

Neither am I.

I have no problem using MS
products.

So you're out-of-place on this forum. Take a hike, Homer.

Thing is, your idea of being in control is flawed.

Nobody's perfect. Get over it.

NetLink_Blue

 

[netlink_blue]

Neither am I.



So you're out-of-place on this forum. Take a hike, Homer.

Sorry ST. I misread your having "no problem" running MS products as
"I've had no PROBLEMS running MS products." :\

Nobody gives a flying-farkle about your trust in MS. Please, can you
just get over yourself? OK? Thanks. (Nl_B)

 

[netlink_blue]

Don't forget that Vista is also sending a hell of a lot more telemetry
data out when it phones home as well!
see what else Vista is harvesting off your PC
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Forg...s-Harvest-User-Data-for-Microsoft-58752.shtml


Don't forget to check out the vulnerabilities with Teredo IPv6 as well
see
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-v6ops-teredo-security-concerns-00.txt
and http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/reference/Teredo_Security.pdf
and http://www.securiteam.com/securityreviews/6C00O2KHFK.html and
http://www.symantec.com/enterprise/...g/2007/03/rtm_edition_of_windows_vista_n.html


Rob

==== IN THE NEWS ================================

Microsoft Windows Update Again in Auto-Reboot Controversy

by Paul Thurrott, (e-mail address removed)

It seems that Microsoft hasn't yet fixed a problem with Windows Update
that was causing Windows PCs all around the globe to automatically
update themselves and then reboot overnight. But this time, the
software giant isn't causing the auto-reboot behavior purposefully, it
says. Which leads us to an even more disturbing scenario: Why can't
Microsoft figure out why its own software is causing PCs to keep
rebooting?

According to a discussion thread on AeroXperience, users who had
configured Windows Update to download but not install updates recently
discovered that their machines had rebooted overnight after installing
updates automatically. Additionally, the Windows Update setting had
somehow reverted to "install automatically."

Microsoft says it has made no changes to Windows Update or Automatic
Updates that would cause this behavior. "We have been hearing some
questions recently regarding Tuesday's update release changing
automatic updating settings," Microsoft Update program manager Nate
Clinton wrote recently in one of the company's blogs. "We are still
looking into this to see if another application is making this change
during setup with user consent, or if this issue is related to
something else. We are continuing the investigation."

Last month, Microsoft found itself embroiled in controversy after it
was discovered that the company had silently updated the Windows
Update components in various Windows versions without alerting
customers. The software giant has since changed the way it delivers
such updates, making this week's events all the more disturbing. But
Microsoft seems to believe that components outside of Windows Update
are making the changes this time. In other words, this isn't some
insidious plot, at least not from those responsible for Windows
Update.

AeroXperience - Automatic Update feature forces machines across the
globe to reboot:
http://list.windowsitpro.com/t?ctl=6A003:B3558C247E7DC99DC8F8D06F24CFFB06

http://list.windowsitpro.com/t?ctl=6A003:B3558C247E7DC99DC8F8D06F24CFFB06

========

Those Teredo tweaks must be complex to code. Nips!

Netlink

 

[Straight Talk]

Sorry ST. I misread your having "no problem" running MS products as
"I've had no PROBLEMS running MS products." :\

Nobody gives a flying-farkle about your trust in MS.

My possible trust in anything is not the issue here. You're babbling.

Please, can you
just get over yourself? OK? Thanks. (Nl_B)

You still don't get it, do you?

You can't be running windows without trusting MS. It's that simple.

Obviously not.

 

[netlink_blue]

Straight Talk wrote:

My possible trust in anything is not the issue here. You're babbling.

Possible Trust in Anything? What are you babbling about, Slinky-One.

You still don't get it, do you?

That you're a sly s-s-snake? That your name isn't Homer? Let's let the
humble reader decide what's what, eh Forked-Tongue.

You can't be running windows without trusting MS. It's that simple.

You sure presume to speak on behalf of a lot of folks.

Catch you later, s-s-snake,
- netlink

 

[Straight Talk]

Straight Talk wrote:



Possible Trust in Anything? What are you babbling about, Slinky-One.



That you're a sly s-s-snake? That your name isn't Homer? Let's let the
humble reader decide what's what, eh Forked-Tongue.


You sure presume to speak on behalf of a lot of folks.

Catch you later, s-s-snake,
- netlink

Okay. You're obviously here to troll.

Thread-PLONK.

 

[netlink_blue]

Okay. You're obviously here to troll.

Thread-PLONK.

I Googled on Windows "backdoors" this morning. Creepy.

I stand corrected. Microsoft programmer(s) can insert backdoor code in
an amazing variety of ways (I'm even now listening to a Steve Gibson
podcast about the MetaFile vulnerability).

ST had written
"See, MS is in charge of the OS kernel. If they want to
phone home without ANY software firewall noticing it, they can just do
so."

Not quite as easy-peasy as ST makes it sound, but I basically am in
agreement. Almost impossible to catch Microsoft with their "hands in
the cookie jar", unless by happenstance/fluke as described by Google
search articles. And impossible to prove or disprove as deliberate.

- = - = -


This statement by ST is somewhat misleading and TOTALLY misses the mark:

"If you don't trust MS you have no choice but to not run windows. It's
that simple."



From Richard's "Why I Hate Microsoft" Page
http://www.twoengineers.com/Richard/microsoft.html

Q: If you hate Windows so much, why don't you just quit bitching and use
some other operating system??

A: Perhaps you haven't heard: Microsoft is a monopoly. I don't jettison
Microsoft for the same reason I wouldn't abandon gasoline as an
automobile fuel.

[snip] ...In short, defying the marketplace is easy to
talk about, much harder to do. Note that this does not mean that
Gasoline is in any way inherently superior to other fuel technologies,
nor does it mean that I owe a debt of gratitude to the oil companies or
OPEC. They just happened to be in the right place at the right time,
just like Microsoft.

I hate Microsoft, but not quite enough to tell my employer that I refuse
to do my job, stop playing the games I enjoy, and stop using my scanner,
video capture card, digital camera, removable disks, and the dozens of
programs and thousands of files I have that are usable only on Microsoft
systems. This situation was not my choice. It is precisely my lack of
choice that created it.

- = - = -

My own example would be phone companies. I don't "trust" them or like
them, but I sure am not about to give up on phone service.

 

[netlink_blue]

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 07:42:31 -0700, "NetLink_Blue"



Someone please educate yourself about the windows platform design to
understand why outbound protection *is* security theater.

I have started to educate myself about "the windows platform design"
re: outbound protection.

Windows OS leaks like a sieve. There is no firewall that can contain
all the "known" exploits that exist.

Microsoft themselves can not build a firewall with reasonably secure
outbound protection without "breaking" most/too-many Windows capablities
& convenience features.

When drama-queen Straight Talk mocks outbound firewall protection, he
has a point (but his hair covers it up). In my eyes, ST is really
mocking Windows OS. Firewalls don't really "leak" - it's Windows that
leaks! Software firewalls get carried along for the ride on Windows OS
code. And there is really no practical way on God's green earth to stop
Windows from leaking, unless you keep yourself disconnected from the
Internet.

The real STAR of outbound "Security-Theater" is Windows.

Do firewall companies play-up and overstate their capablities? I
believe they do. (shock, gasp, dismay)

Not all adware or malware goes to all 15 or so extremes of exploits ...

http://www.firewallleaktester.com/index.html

I have lived behind a router for many years now. I shutter at the
thought of directly hooking up to the 'Net. The firewalls I have run
with outbound filters have served me with a modicum of convenience and
alerts. But, who knows ...

the Shadow knows,
NetLnk

Get a router. Use Vista's firewall (or XP SP-2's) to at least cloak all
your open ports if directily connected.

 

[Straight Talk]

I have started to educate myself about "the windows platform design"
re: outbound protection.
Finally.

Windows OS leaks like a sieve.

An OS leaking? - Never heard about such a thing. What does a leaking
OS look like?

There is no firewall that can contain all the "known" exploits that exist.

You don't necessarily need to exploit anything. Just using standard
windows functionality will do.

Microsoft themselves can not build a firewall with reasonably secure
outbound protection without "breaking" most/too-many Windows capablities
& convenience features.

Right. But at least they admit that openly.

When drama-queen Straight Talk mocks outbound firewall protection, he
has a point (but his hair covers it up). In my eyes, ST is really
mocking Windows OS.

Not really. It's not MS or windows claiming to be able to do magic, is
it? It's the "firewall" vendors. At least MS is honest enough to admit
that host based outbound protection on their windows platform is a
waste of time and resources.

Firewalls don't really "leak" - it's Windows that leaks!

This doesn't become true just by being repeated.

Software firewalls get carried along for the ride on Windows OS
code. And there is really no practical way on God's green earth to stop
Windows from leaking, unless you keep yourself disconnected from the
Internet.

The real STAR of outbound "Security-Theater" is Windows.

Windows is a multi-purpose OS made with functionality and convenience
in mind. What exactly do you expect?

Do firewall companies play-up and overstate their capablities? I
believe they do. (shock, gasp, dismay)

You bet. They are selling snake-oil.

Not all adware or malware goes to all 15 or so extremes of exploits ...

http://www.firewallleaktester.com/index.html

I have lived behind a router for many years now. I shutter at the
thought of directly hooking up to the 'Net. The firewalls I have run
with outbound filters have served me with a modicum of convenience and
alerts. But, who knows ...

the Shadow knows,
NetLnk

Get a router. Use Vista's firewall (or XP SP-2's) to at least cloak all
your open ports if directily connected.

For several years I hooked up W2K machines directly to the Internet
after having configured them properly. No problems.