Cooler utility: incorrect Pricelessware claim

[REMbranded]

Susan Bugher <[email protected]> wrote:

The problem is the lack of information.

If anyone has solid information about coolers - especially about whether
or not Rain is useful to all/some/no NT/2000/XP systems - please post
it.

I'll be happy to revise the description as needed as soon as I know what
the revision should be.

Take a bow. And then a break. The author information was used and only
that is in question.

If 'proven' false, maybe worry a tad. <G>

 

[Susan Bugher]

Take a bow. And then a break. The author information was used and only
that is in question.

If 'proven' false, maybe worry a tad. <G>

Hi REMbranded,

Sound a bit stressed, do I?

guess I'll take your advice and take a break.

ZZZ ZZZ ZZZ

ah, that's better. Thanks.

Susan

 

[Tiger]

The problem is the lack of information.

If anyone has solid information about coolers - especially about
whether or not Rain is useful to all/some/no NT/2000/XP systems -
please post it.
I'll be happy to revise the description as needed as soon as I
know what the revision should be.

Here's the revision: (Rain works well with Win95/98. It *may not* work
for NT/2K/XP systems...then again, it may work fine)

Or alternately: Forget the caveat.

I vote for the alternate.

 

[Blinky the Shark]

Blinky the Shark wrote:

The problem is the lack of information.

The information on Vcool benefiting some XP installations was provided
in the *OP*[1]. It is that same information that shows that the
generalization should not be made, and that any such comment should be
limited to *Rain*.

[1]See my other post, just uploaded for a test results from
benchtest.com, for *corroboration* of that information already posted to
alt.comp.freeware in OP.

 

[Blinky the Shark]

Here's the revision: (Rain works well with Win95/98. It *may not*
work for NT/2K/XP systems...then again, it may work fine)

I don't believe anyone's claiming that it works for NT/2K/XP. The claim
(and the apparent fact) is that the *generalization* that *no* software
cooling is possible with them is the problem.

Or alternately: Forget the caveat.

Since the listing says Rain is for 9x, nothing else is *needed*
(*especially* an unbased generalization). Since it's listed as a 9x
utility, there's no reason to talk about the others.

 

[Genna Reeney]

The note (NT/2000/XP do not need coolers) is present in the PW2002
description. The note was carried over to the PW2003 list.
Pricelessware descriptions are for the most part copied from the
author's site. It seems likely that that is the original source of
the note.

Correct.
Original author's claim.

 

[Susan Bugher]

Possibly Rain provides no benefit to users of NT/2000/XP. If that's the
case the note should be retained - although perhaps reworded.

I would be grateful for further discussion or some URLs that could clear
up the issue you have raised. Coolers are among the countless things I'm
not an expert on.

My thanks to all who provided information and links -that was very
helpful. I did some additional digging. The 1998 FAQ for Rain has this
to say:

<quote>
Q: Do Rain and Waterfall work under Windows NT?
A: No. Windows NT doesn't need CPU cooling programs that execute HLT
instructions, such as Rain, Waterfall and CPUIdle, because it already
comes with an option to execute HLT instructions when the CPU is idle.
</quote>

I have discovered that version 2 of Rain was nominated for PW - for
unknown reasons the Pricelessware description says version 1 <blush>.
Major Geeks says that version 1 may be better on some systems. I will
revise the description to include both versions.

The current Rain description is:

Rain (freeware) OS: Win9x/ME (NT/2000/XP do not need coolers)
(English)
Rain is a CPU cooler program. Originally designed as tool for the
serious overclocker, this is a cooler program with no frills or extras.
It doesn't need them. Rain issues the HLT (halt) command during periods
of inactivity and the processor remains cooler because of it. Plain and
simple. The benefits of running a cooler CPU are that it reduces power
consumption, can extend laptop battery life, and prevents CPU heat
related freezes and lockups. More important, it can prolong the life of
your PC.
Author/Home Page: Leading WinTech (Home Page N/A)
Download v 1.0 (179 KB) http://www.octools.com/files/Rain.exe

I will revise the description to read as follows:

Rain (freeware, unsupported) OS: Win9x
(English)
Rain is a CPU cooler program. Originally designed as tool for the
serious overclocker, this is a cooler program with no frills or extras.
It doesn't need them. Rain issues the HLT (halt) command during periods
of inactivity and the processor remains cooler because of it. Plain and
simple. The benefits of running a cooler CPU are that it reduces power
consumption, can extend laptop battery life, and prevents CPU heat
related freezes and lockups. More important, it can prolong the life of
your PC.

NOTE: Windows NT/2000/XP don't need CPU cooling programs that execute
HLT instructions (such as Rain) because they already comes with an
option to execute HLT instructions when the CPU is idle.

Author: Leading WinTech (Home Page N/A)
Description and download v 1.0 (rain10.zip) (123 KB)
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=431
Description and download v 2.0 (rain20.zip) (121 KB)
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=430


Susan

 

[Susan Bugher]

In (e-mail address removed), Susan Bugher typed:

Hi Susan - Well, maybe I can learn something. I'm running Win2kPro, and
I'm unaware of any such Halt option. Where is it? FWIW, I'm turned on
24/7, and I installed Rain 1.0 a long time ago. During the first month
thereafter, my electric bill dropped from ~$38/month to ~$24/month with
no other changes and remains at approx that level. I haven't tried Rain
2.0, so I can't report on it.

Blinky furnished this link:

http://www.benchtest.com/vcool.html

which had this link:

http://vcool.occludo.net/VC_Theory.html.

I did skim that web page last night - it has a lot of information about
how some processors are halted and may answer your question. (I know a
lot more than I did a day or two ago but not nearly enough to answer
your question.)

FWIW - the Rain FAQ I quoted from was included in the zip files from
Major Geeks - the same FAQ is in both versions. You might want to get a
copy if you don't have it.

Description and download v 1.0 (rain10.zip) (123 KB)
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=431
Description and download v 2.0 (rain20.zip) (121 KB)
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=430

Susan

 

[Jim Byrd]

OK, Susan - that seems to bear you out, since it specifically refers to
NT family. Can you or anyone else please point me to where that option
is in either Win2k or XP, or to a relevant Registry entry? The only way
I can account for my experience with Rain is to assume that I didn't
(don't?) have it enabled and/or that it's not enabled by default. FWIW,
I just installed Rain 2.0 to see what it said after I looked at the
FAQ's and it specifically detected my Pentium Pro and went ahead and
installed - no hesitation because of Win2k environment. TIA

--
Regards, Jim Byrd, MS-MVP
Please respond in original thread in Newsgroup.




In (e-mail address removed), Susan Bugher typed:

 

[Susan Bugher]

OK, Susan - that seems to bear you out, since it specifically refers to
NT family. Can you or anyone else please point me to where that option
is in either Win2k or XP, or to a relevant Registry entry? The only way
I can account for my experience with Rain is to assume that I didn't
(don't?) have it enabled and/or that it's not enabled by default. FWIW,
I just installed Rain 2.0 to see what it said after I looked at the
FAQ's and it specifically detected my Pentium Pro and went ahead and
installed - no hesitation because of Win2k environment. TIA

I dunno. My weak grasp of the subject leads me to surmise that Rain may
install and work in NT/2000/XP systems - but that what it does is a
duplication of effort . . .

Have you read the recent thread on CPU coolers? One of the newer
programs discussed in that thread might provide more effective cooling
for your system.

Susan

 

[Jim Byrd]

Hi Susan - OK, thanks - I went back and reviewed the entire thread.
While I see many assertions that it's not needed in the NT family of
OS's since it duplicates what the OS does there anyway (at least for
Intel processors), what I don't see is even a single reference to any
(authoritative or otherwise) source for that statement, although there
are some links to possibly relevant AMD stuff. I'm beginning to wonder
if perhaps we don't have an element of urban legend here somewhere.
I've checked the KB, TechNet and MSDN for any reference to this without
any success. I would appreciate it if any poster knowing of an explicit
reference for this statement, whether MS or other, would post it here
please. TIA

--
Regards, Jim Byrd, MS-MVP
Please respond in original thread in Newsgroup.




In (e-mail address removed), Susan Bugher typed:

 

[Semolina Pilchard]

Hi Susan - OK, thanks - I went back and reviewed the entire thread.
While I see many assertions that it's not needed in the NT family of
OS's since it duplicates what the OS does there anyway (at least for
Intel processors), what I don't see is even a single reference to any
(authoritative or otherwise) source for that statement, although there
are some links to possibly relevant AMD stuff. I'm beginning to wonder
if perhaps we don't have an element of urban legend here somewhere.
I've checked the KB, TechNet and MSDN for any reference to this without
any success. I would appreciate it if any poster knowing of an explicit
reference for this statement, whether MS or other, would post it here
please. TIA

I have XP Home and I'm trying CPU Eat'n'Cool. How would I know
whether it was working? How do I sample the CPU temperature?

 

[Jason de Bougainville]

The only processor I know of, other than a Pentium 3/4, that has the "HLT"
instruction implemented is the AMD K6-2. This is because I also use Linux
and it tests the processor for that when the init script is run. That
doesn't mean other processors don't, only that those are the only ones I've
used under Linux Any other Linux users that have different processors just
look for this line:
"Checking 'hlt' instruction... OK."
It usually appears just before:
"POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX"
At least in x86 kernel version 2.4.x

 

[Vic Drastik]

The problem is the lack of information.

The information on Vcool benefiting some XP installations was provided
in the *OP*[1]. It is that same information that shows that the
generalization should not be made, and that any such comment should be
limited to *Rain*.
Blinky Linux RU 297263
Spam: The Boulder Pledge http://snurl.com/bpledge
Digest: Best of Internet Oracularities http://snurl.com/dig_oracle

Here is some "freeware" that might help people :

Blow the dust off the CPU, and clean it off the edges of the CPU cooler fan
blades, *very gently*. (Warning - Don't use a vacuum cleaner)

I used a can of compressed air (not freeware) and a soft brush (not
freeware) - it lowered the peak CPU temperature, which is more important
than the average CPU temperature, from 48 degrees C to 42 degrees C.
Unfortunately, you will need to do this 2 or 3 times a year to get best
results.

Vic

 

[Dennis Roark]

Alternatively, you might learn to read.

Coming back to the group a week later I am amazed and a little amused at
the thread I seem to have started and the vehemence of the insults being
hurled. I guess I am glad I am not in the same room with many of you.

A few facts:

1) I have no idea whether Rain can help cool a PC running WinXP.

2) I know that VCool definite and dramatically does cool a PC
running Win XP IF! that PC is using a VIA chipset and the AMD Athlon or
Duron processor.

3) As far as I understand, the Intel CPU's running XP (or NT, or 2000)
do not benefit from any cooling utility because the three companies:
Intel, Microsoft, and the chipset manufacturer (even if other than
Intel) cooperated for the HALT instruction to work properly. This is
not true for AMD cpu's and VIA chipsets, nor I believe with the NForce2
chipsets.

4) The author of VCool claims the utility (with AMD/Via) does cool under
XP. Quoting from his web page, vcool.occludo.net:
VCool on W2000 or NT:

"You'll need to install the vcool.sys driver to make VCool run on these
OS (usually this requires that you have administrator rights) - the
automated installation should take care of this process - however if you
want to do it manually you'll have to download this archive, extract the
files..."

5) This claim for VCool has been verified by my experience and that of
several others who posted in this thread.

6) The original statement in the Rain description in Pricelessware.com
is indeed in error since it says categorically that NT/2000/XP do not
need software coolers. It should at most say that Rain can't help.
VCool definitely can help, frequently by 10 C.

7) I was accused of being a salesman or something like that for VCool.
I never met the German developer of this freeware utility. I am a
computer science professor in the midwest of the United States. I am
an advocate of this program not for personal interest but because I
find it helpful. I advocated the program and corrected the incorrect
statement regarding NT/2000/XP not needing software coolers just as
most of us who are part of the group try to bring our knowledge to the
help of others.

8) We need to ask questions, share knowledge, not hurl insults.

Respectfully,