Cannot turn off because 'updates being installed'

T

Terry Pinnell

I've been unsuccessfully trying to help my wife fix this problem on her XP
(SP3) PC.

I can provide other background, but the bottom line is that we cannot turn
off in the usual way because XP insists on wanting to complete some
automatic windows update. So we had to use the power button. This morning
I thought I'd try a System Restore. But that fails at the first hurdle
while XP is trying to reset, displaying the message 'Updates are being
installed (1 of 1)' and 'Do not switch off...'. But that has now been on
the screen for half an hour, so I'll have to power down manually again.
 
T

Terry Pinnell

Terry Pinnell said:
I've been unsuccessfully trying to help my wife fix this problem on her XP
(SP3) PC.

I can provide other background, but the bottom line is that we cannot turn
off in the usual way because XP insists on wanting to complete some
automatic windows update. So we had to use the power button. This morning
I thought I'd try a System Restore. But that fails at the first hurdle
while XP is trying to reset, displaying the message 'Updates are being
installed (1 of 1)' and 'Do not switch off...'. But that has now been on
the screen for half an hour, so I'll have to power down manually again.

Status report:
I then thought I'd try booting to Safe Mode, prior to attempting the SR
again. I held F8 down permanently after pressing the power on button, but
presumably that was incorrect because it booted to the normal desktop, not
the 'options' screen. (Should I have inset ad repeatedly tapped the F8
key?) But the good news is that the SR succeeded this time, and I'm able
to power down properly.

It still leaves a puzzling situation though, so I'd appreciate any
thoughts please.

Background:
The issue that I'm pretty sure prompted this was somehow connected with
Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5. We had been unable to get my wife's new
Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 (7") to establish a USB connection with her PC.
Whatever route we took resulted in a message (either from the XP hardware
wizard or various programs subsequently tried) that the 'device was not
correctly configured (code 1)'.

So we downloaded yet another Samsung USB driver purporting to fix this. It
first installed .NET Framework 3.5 (about which I am 99% ignorant) but
hung with that still unfinished (although showing zero time remaining) and
we had to cancel out.

The following morning an automatic XP Windows update tried unsuccessfully
to install an update to .NET Framework 3.5, presumably just coincidence.
But that got into a dreadful mess, failing to finish, and that's when the
refusal to power down started.

Research found many problems of a vaguely similar nature concerning .NET
Framework updates, and much of the discussion is over my head.
 
P

Paul

Terry said:
Status report:
I then thought I'd try booting to Safe Mode, prior to attempting the SR
again. I held F8 down permanently after pressing the power on button, but
presumably that was incorrect because it booted to the normal desktop, not
the 'options' screen. (Should I have inset ad repeatedly tapped the F8
key?) But the good news is that the SR succeeded this time, and I'm able
to power down properly.

It still leaves a puzzling situation though, so I'd appreciate any
thoughts please.

Background:
The issue that I'm pretty sure prompted this was somehow connected with
Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5. We had been unable to get my wife's new
Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 (7") to establish a USB connection with her PC.
Whatever route we took resulted in a message (either from the XP hardware
wizard or various programs subsequently tried) that the 'device was not
correctly configured (code 1)'.

So we downloaded yet another Samsung USB driver purporting to fix this. It
first installed .NET Framework 3.5 (about which I am 99% ignorant) but
hung with that still unfinished (although showing zero time remaining) and
we had to cancel out.

The following morning an automatic XP Windows update tried unsuccessfully
to install an update to .NET Framework 3.5, presumably just coincidence.
But that got into a dreadful mess, failing to finish, and that's when the
refusal to power down started.

Research found many problems of a vaguely similar nature concerning .NET
Framework updates, and much of the discussion is over my head.

About the only thing I can think of, to enable your Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 to
connect, would be an MTP driver. If you're attempting to connect to storage
on such a device, the paths available are USB Storage Class (for which a driver
has been installed in the OS for a dogs age) or MTP. The MTP driver, however,
is treated differently by Microsoft. At one time, it might have
accompanies Windows Media Player (because the driver also support DRM
features).

USBStor doesn't support DRM as such, and generally "just works". MTP
as a transport, allows features such as preventing you from copying
multimedia content to a portable device. On the plus side, MTP allows
both the tablet and the desktop PC, to be writing to the storage
device inside the tablet at the same time.

Generally, portable devices support USBstor or MTP, but not both.

I'm not advocating this page as a solution, merely showing that
someone had a problem with the named device and MTP.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...xy-tab-2/12326102-0d2e-4d47-8ec4-7c7b9980e479

So now, we'll ask the great Wiki, where the Media Transfer Protocol can be
found.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Transfer_Protocol

"Support for Media Transfer Protocol in Windows XP requires the installation
of Windows Media Player 10 or higher."

"Windows XP supports MTP if Windows Media Player 10 or 11 (or the
Windows Media 11 Runtime) is installed."

Which to my mind, isn't a very good answer. At heart, it should just be
a stinking driver, not a "jail" for your new device.

*******

If the Samsung *Application Software* is .NET based, it may require
that some .NET file be installed. That's a possibility. The .NET should
not really be needed to make MTP work. .NET based applications, would
need .NET libraries to work.

The .NET people have a cleanup tool, with some instructions.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/astebner/archive/2008/08/28/8904493.aspx

"* This tool is designed as a last resort for cases where install,
uninstall, repair or patch installation did not succeed for
unusual reasons. It is not a substitute for the standard uninstall procedure.
You should try the steps listed in this blog post before using this cleanup tool.

http://blogs.msdn.com/astebner/archive/2008/03/07/8108332.aspx

* This cleanup tool will delete shared files and registry keys used by other
versions of the .NET Framework. If you run the cleanup tool, you will need
to perform a repair/re-install for all other versions of the .NET Framework
that are on your computer or they will not work correctly afterwards.
"

The tool cannot remove versions of .NET which are "native" to the computer.
For example, on Windows 7, something like .NET 2.0 is probably already on there,
and the cleanup tool can't remove it. The cleanup tool is for removing
incrementally installed .NET. Like maybe you installed .NET 4.0 by accident
(it was in Windows Update), something went wrong, and you need an option. Then
the Cleanup tool might be a solution.

Anyway, safety first. Make sure you've got some kind of backup available,
in case things go downhill.

I don't know if that Cleanup tool, can unravel a half-installed .NET.
It's not logical that it should, since generally tool design assumes
"all or nothing" situations. Either something is completely installed,
or the install died and backed itself out (failed). Installs shouldn't
get stuck half-way, but I think you know that already. So while there
is a Cleanup tool, it probably doesn't know how to tell the MSI subsystem
to stop trying or whatever. That would take too many software skillz.

Paul
 
G

glee

Paul said:
snip
The .NET people have a cleanup tool, with some instructions.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/astebner/archive/2008/08/28/8904493.aspx

"* This tool is designed as a last resort for cases where install,
uninstall, repair or patch installation did not succeed for
unusual reasons. It is not a substitute for the standard
uninstall procedure.
You should try the steps listed in this blog post before using
this cleanup tool.

http://blogs.msdn.com/astebner/archive/2008/03/07/8108332.aspx

* This cleanup tool will delete shared files and registry keys
used by other
versions of the .NET Framework. If you run the cleanup tool,
you will need
to perform a repair/re-install for all other versions of the
.NET Framework
that are on your computer or they will not work correctly
afterwards.
"

The tool cannot remove versions of .NET which are "native" to the
computer.
For example, on Windows 7, something like .NET 2.0 is probably already
on there,
and the cleanup tool can't remove it. The cleanup tool is for removing
incrementally installed .NET. Like maybe you installed .NET 4.0 by
accident
(it was in Windows Update), something went wrong, and you need an
option. Then
the Cleanup tool might be a solution.

Anyway, safety first. Make sure you've got some kind of backup
available,
in case things go downhill.

I don't know if that Cleanup tool, can unravel a half-installed .NET.
It's not logical that it should, since generally tool design assumes
"all or nothing" situations. Either something is completely installed,
or the install died and backed itself out (failed). Installs shouldn't
get stuck half-way, but I think you know that already. So while there
is a Cleanup tool, it probably doesn't know how to tell the MSI
subsystem
to stop trying or whatever. That would take too many software skillz.

Aaron Stebner's .NET Framework cleanup tool was designed for situations
like this, where there are issues with incomplete Framework installation
or total installation failures, .NET patch installation failures, etc.
The tool should be able to remove any traces of >NET on the machine....
all versions that have any traces, because XP did not include any
version natively. Stebner recommends trying to uninstall .NET via Add
or Remove Programs first.... the tool is designed to fund any traces
even after it has been formally uninstalled. I've used it a number of
times on client's systems.
I would run the cleanup tool and remove all versions of .NET Framework,
then only reinstall a version if there is software on the system that
uses that version. There is no advantage to having .NET Framework
installed if nothing needs it.

Yes, having a backup of the system is a good idea before running a tool
like this.
 
T

Terry Pinnell

glee said:
Aaron Stebner's .NET Framework cleanup tool was designed for situations
like this, where there are issues with incomplete Framework installation
or total installation failures, .NET patch installation failures, etc.
The tool should be able to remove any traces of >NET on the machine....
all versions that have any traces, because XP did not include any
version natively. Stebner recommends trying to uninstall .NET via Add
or Remove Programs first.... the tool is designed to fund any traces
even after it has been formally uninstalled. I've used it a number of
times on client's systems.
I would run the cleanup tool and remove all versions of .NET Framework,
then only reinstall a version if there is software on the system that
uses that version. There is no advantage to having .NET Framework
installed if nothing needs it.

Yes, having a backup of the system is a good idea before running a tool
like this.

Thanks all, much appreciate those detailed replies.

My wife gets very unhappy if I work on her PC when she isn't around (she
works, I've retired). So it will be this evening before I can even find
what versions (if any) of .NET are installed. Once I restored the PC's
ability to respond to 'Turn Off...' I did nothing else this morning.

In addition to cleaning up the .NET stuff (using that promising tool if
necessary), I'll install WMP 11. My earlier research found several
mentions of that (although I have yet to find an articulate explanation of
just what the Galaxy Tab 2 needs to work in 'USB mode').

I'll also explore Windows Update to see if I can find further clues. Maybe
download that.NET 3.5 update manually if it turns out to be vital for
getting music onto the tablet via USB.

BTW, is there some utility that will report what installed programs are
*dependent* on the respective versions of .NET?

Wednesday 18 July 2012, 13:41, UK time.
 
P

Paul

Terry said:
BTW, is there some utility that will report what installed programs are
*dependent* on the respective versions of .NET?

I tried to do that once, but wasn't happy with the results.

Someone else on here wrote one, and his probably works better.

Really, I expect Microsoft to do stuff like that. But
I guess it's too much for them.

*******

The Stebner page also has .NET verification software,
where you can select 2.0, 3.0, 3.5 layer, and have the
tool run a test to determine whether .NET is working
properly. So in addition to the Cleanup tool, there
are other tools on that site.

Setup Verification Tool

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/astebner/archive/2008/10/13/8999004.aspx

Layer model

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/DotNet.svg/513px-DotNet.svg.png

*******

If your wife doesn't like you touching the machine, maybe you
can do a backup before doing surgery, then, if things become
worse, restore the backup. And stay friends... :)

Paul
 
T

Terry Pinnell

Anthony Buckland said:
I'm late to this discussion, but the first question that
occurred to me was, what stopped you from waiting until
Windows had finished its update? Using the power button
is something I'd do only if the machine was irretrievably
frozen so that a normal turnoff was impossible. By the
way, the migration to Windows 7 doesn't get rid of the
problem of waiting to shut down; some updates just can't
finish with the OS running. When I used XP, on a reasonably
capable machine, I recall a number of updates that _could_
be done without a shutdown and took times of a half hour or
more each (to work successfully).

My normal operating mode: I shut down or restart only when
it's necessary. Otherwise, my machine runs continuously,
sometimes for weeks at a time: important things like
automatic updates or virus scans happen in the middle of
the night, and shutdowns in particular, as opposed to
restarts, stress computers just as they do lightbulbs.

It seemed clear after 15-20 mins of no apparent activity that it was never
going to install.

I do the same as you, mainly for overnight backups, defragging, etc.
 
A

aeroloose

BTW, is there some utility that will report what installed programs are
*dependent* on the respective versions of .NET?

Mayayana wrote a very nifty utility to provide this
information. Sorry I don't have a link handy; you can
search this newsgroup for earlier posts. The program is
called "DotNet Checker."
 
T

Terry Pinnell

aeroloose said:
Mayayana wrote a very nifty utility to provide this
information. Sorry I don't have a link handy; you can
search this newsgroup for earlier posts. The program is
called "DotNet Checker."

Thanks, but all tools with that or a similar name apparently just check
what versions of .NET are installed, which is not what I'm looking for.

For example:
http://tmgdevelopment.co.uk/versioncheck.htm
"Free DotNet VersionCheck UtilityMicrosoft .NET

If you've ever wanted a quick way to find out which versions and service
packs of the .NET runtime are installed on a machine, or if you're trying
to resolve a 'missing mscoree.dll' error, then DotNET Version Checker is
for you."
 
A

aeroloose

Thanks, but all tools with that or a similar name apparently just check
what versions of .NET are installed, which is not what I'm looking for.

For example:
http://tmgdevelopment.co.uk/versioncheck.htm
"Free DotNet VersionCheck UtilityMicrosoft .NET

If you've ever wanted a quick way to find out which versions and service
packs of the .NET runtime are installed on a machine, or if you're trying
to resolve a 'missing mscoree.dll' error, then DotNET Version Checker is
for you."
No, Mayayana's utility *does* reveal the programs that use
it, and which .net version they need. That's how I sussed
mine, so I could decide if I wanted to toss or keep it.
 
G

glee

aeroloose said:
Mayayana wrote a very nifty utility to provide this information.
Sorry I don't have a link handy; you can search this newsgroup for
earlier posts. The program is called "DotNet Checker."


In January of this year, the DotNet Checker by Mayayana was available at
this link:
http://www.jsware.net/jsware/test/dotnetv.zip
but the link no longer works.

However, Mayayana included DotNet Checker.hta (which is the checker you
refer to) in this .zip file that includes other utilities:
http://www.jsware.net/jsware/zips/peops.zip

See this page for info:
http://www.jsware.net/jsware/scripts.php5#peops

I have not tried it.... this is for your reference only.
 
A

aeroloose

In January of this year, the DotNet Checker by Mayayana was
available at this link:
http://www.jsware.net/jsware/test/dotnetv.zip
but the link no longer works.

However, Mayayana included DotNet Checker.hta (which is the
checker you refer to) in this .zip file that includes other
utilities:
http://www.jsware.net/jsware/zips/peops.zip

See this page for info:
http://www.jsware.net/jsware/scripts.php5#peops

I have not tried it.... this is for your reference only.
Thanks for sharing the link. I can vouch that it worked for
me; no claims for others.
 

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