Can a nearby refrigerator affect PC performance?

M

mandygal

I have a PC with terrible performance that defies troubleshooting. I
may be grabbing a straws here, but the PC shares a wall (and electrical
circuits) with a refrigerator - could that have any impact?

Performance issue is ridiculously slow to process - logging on, opening
files, opening applications. The reason I am wondering about
environment issues is because we even replaced this computer with a new
machine and the symptoms persist. The user is not a flake, she is not
loading "stealth" stuff on her machine or exposing the PC to malware.

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks - Mandygal
 
R

RBM

You can prove it out yourself by connecting the PC to another outlet through
an extension cord
 
B

bgd

Do you use UPS? Its not just for backup.
http://www.apc.com/products/category.cfm?id=13 (there are other brands, this
my fav)
One of those literally saved my expensive machine more than once from
electrical anomalies, even underpowered circuits.
Also, is the house an old two wire outlet?
The extra ground in modern wiring is not just a commodity for pc's. Of
course they run without it; my machines lifes have been cut in half or more
without.
With Ups and my own ground the symptoms you mentioned (I had) went away.
Not to mention how long windows didn't corrupt something, and all machine
parts running cooler, of course lasting longer.
Also, if just surge protecting, a lonely circuit with just your pc works a
little better.
And my most bizarre note:
My pc didnt bother the metal plate in my foot anymore with UPS truly
grounded.
How bizarre, how bizarre.

"They" don't tell us consumers everything......
 
P

philo

mandygal said:
I have a PC with terrible performance that defies troubleshooting. I
may be grabbing a straws here, but the PC shares a wall (and electrical
circuits) with a refrigerator - could that have any impact?

Performance issue is ridiculously slow to process - logging on, opening
files, opening applications. The reason I am wondering about
environment issues is because we even replaced this computer with a new
machine and the symptoms persist. The user is not a flake, she is not
loading "stealth" stuff on her machine or exposing the PC to malware.



Unplug the refrigerator and try the computer

(the food inside won't spoil if you keep the door closed)
 
V

Vanguard

mandygal said:
I have a PC with terrible performance that defies troubleshooting. I
may be grabbing a straws here, but the PC shares a wall (and electrical
circuits) with a refrigerator - could that have any impact?

Performance issue is ridiculously slow to process - logging on, opening
files, opening applications. The reason I am wondering about
environment issues is because we even replaced this computer with a new
machine and the symptoms persist. The user is not a flake, she is not
loading "stealth" stuff on her machine or exposing the PC to malware.


The common factor here is who setup both the old and new computers. It is
likely you installed the same software, or a major portion of it, in the new
computer that you installed in the old computer. What happens when you do a
fresh install of the OS and *only* the OS? Have you check the device
properties of the hard drive(s) to ensure you are using DMA mode instead of
the slower PIO mode? Did the hard drive in the new computer come from the
old computer? What is the spec on the hard drive regarding RPM and access
time? It is an ATA (IDE) or SATA drive? What are you loading on Windows
startup? Have you checked using msconfig.exe? What happens when you boot
into Safe Mode for Windows? What happens when you use msconfig.exe to
disable all startup programs, reboot into normal mode, but now without all
the startup programs getting loaded?

For the new computer, and since it sounds like a new setup, save all the
data files that have changed so far, if any, reboot using the install CD,
delete the partitions, create the ones you need, format them, and ONLY
install Windows. While doing this, disconnect from the Internet unless you
have a firewall in a NAT router. Then you have a clean machine by which to
determine how your host performs.

When a user says that they had an old setup that exhibits the same problems
in a totally new setup, the user brought something old into the something
new, like infected software, old hardware, and old copy of the OS partition
(i.e., drive image), reinstalled all the old software and bloated the loadup
of multiple program on startup, or so on.

The most the refridgerator will do is add noise onto the power line but the
switching power supply in the computer is more than capable of handling this
along with the tiny surge when the refridgerator turns off. At most, you
may hear noise in your speakers when the fridge is running if you don't use
shielded cables. There is the possibility that more than the fridge and
your computer are connected to the same circuit and overloading the amperage
rating for that circuit. However, the result would be an outage when the
fuse blew or breaker tripped (or a fire if the fuse/breaker were overrated
for the wiring). As others have mentioned, just unplugging the fridge would
show it has no effect, but that would be the same as when the fridge's motor
wasn't running, too. Your fridge isn't running all the time, right?
 
K

kony

I have a PC with terrible performance that defies troubleshooting. I
may be grabbing a straws here, but the PC shares a wall (and electrical
circuits) with a refrigerator - could that have any impact?

With a very poor PC power supply, it could be a problem when
the fridge kicks it's compressor on. That should cause an
error, crash, etc, if anything.

First and foremost test the integrity of the system. Run
memtest86 (Google will find it) for several hours or
overnight. Adjustments are necessarily if there are ANY
errors.

Run Prime95's Torture Test, large in-place FFTs setting. It
will put the CPU near full load and test stablilty and
thermal margin. Again ANY errors signal a necessary change.


Performance issue is ridiculously slow to process - logging on, opening
files, opening applications. The reason I am wondering about
environment issues is because we even replaced this computer with a new
machine and the symptoms persist. The user is not a flake, she is not
loading "stealth" stuff on her machine or exposing the PC to malware.

How similar is the new system to the old? Sometimes people
think only in terms of defect rather than poor design or
component problems, for example the power supply. I would
investigate other things though, perhaps there are offline
network shares that are causing this.

Even if you consider the user not a "flake", it could be she
has loaded same things on each system, or at least one of
which is causing a problem. It might not be malware, but
consider that the whole purpose of a malware author is to
make it unobtrustive, stealthy to a certain extent but that
doesn't mean it is bug-free, might have problems.

Other areas to look at might include any hardware that was
transferred from one system to the other, for example hard
drives or data cables if bad may cause difficult to trace
unresponsiveness. Sometimes there are entries in Windows'
Event Viewer but you make no mention of the OS, let alone
the hardware which is a fairly basic and important level of
detail if the fridge isn't the cause (which unplugging
temporarily should isolate easily).
 
M

MCheu

Wrong... UPS's give dirtier power than a plain outlet.

Can you explain that, please? The advertising blurbs for most UPS
devices (I'm assuming we're talking about Uninterruptible Power
Supplies) wail on and on about how much better their line filtering is
than simple power bar surge protectors. While it wouldn't be the
first time an ad was inaccurate, I'm not quite ready to assume they're
lying without at least a reason.
 
P

Paul

mandygal said:
I have a PC with terrible performance that defies troubleshooting. I
may be grabbing a straws here, but the PC shares a wall (and electrical
circuits) with a refrigerator - could that have any impact?

Performance issue is ridiculously slow to process - logging on, opening
files, opening applications. The reason I am wondering about
environment issues is because we even replaced this computer with a new
machine and the symptoms persist. The user is not a flake, she is not
loading "stealth" stuff on her machine or exposing the PC to malware.

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks - Mandygal

I think my favorite of all the theories presented so far, is your
disk drive is in PIO mode and not DMA mode.

The poor fridge has nothing to do with it. If the AC line voltage
to the PSU drops, eventually the PC will shut off on you. Computing
performance will be a constant, until the point at which the PSU
shuts off.

If you can find Task Manager on the machine, see if there are
any computing tasks that are running and using CPU capacity.
But first and foremost, check the disk operating mode, as PIO
will limit disk performance to only 4MB/sec, and not the 60MB/sec
that the disk media rate would normally provide.

If you can find a copy of HDTach, you can do a simple benchmark
of the hard drive. (Free download, usable under Win2K/WinXP)

http://www.simplisoftware.com/Public/index.php?request=HdTach

There are a few motherboards, where there is an unexplained
delay, between a mouse click on a desktop folder, and the
drive response. For those motherboards, I have not seen a
suggestion as to what causes the delay, or how to fix it.
The delay could be five seconds, and almost suggests something
is timing out. Perhaps presenting more details on the
motherboard make and model, would allow a search for whether
your motherboard is one of those.

Paul
 
D

Davy

Kone could be right, could well be the supply as refridgerators coul
cause a slight voltage drop but only when the motor is running, th
voltage consumption being zero when the thermostat strikes in

One way to prove is as previously suggested unplug the fridge for hal
an hour or so while you try it, it may not be the fridge but th
wiring itself, loose fuses in the fuse box or fuses with ba
contacts, even better is to try it elsewhere, in another hous
perhaps

Also you could go into bios and look at the voltages the bios ar
showing and wait for the fridge to fire up...any fluctuations 'may
be possible to see

Yet I doubt very much that the fridge could be the cause for a simpl
reason, the fridge ain't running all the time, meaning that when th
,motor is not running the computer should behave OK, but it could b
the wiring

Does the lights flicker when the fridge powers up..? How about if yo
use a power tool, a electric ketle or heater perhaps, any fluction
with the light when you power any of these suggest a problem whic
'may' be the cause of the problem

Dav
 
W

w_tom

Advertising is chock full of subjective claims, provides no numbers,
and routinely forgets to include relevant information. Much like Rush
Limbaugh or Radio Moscow. They are called computer grade UPS. This
one, for example, claims to output a modified sine wave. Let's look at
that 120 volt sine wave. Two 200 volt square waves with up to a 270
volt spike between those square waves. Yes, there is a 120 sine wave
in that waveform. Power that might be destructive to some small
electric motors. But computers are so robust that this modified sine
wave is no threat to a computer.

It is called a computer grade UPS. It hopes you will assume that
means cleaner power when it often means dirtiest power in battery
backup mode. But again, where did they provide numbers and underlying
facts in that advertisement. This is also how some promoted WMDs -
hoping you would not notice missing numbers and underlying facts.

They are not lying as you might assume. It's called lying by
telling half truths. They hope you will use word association as a
replacement for principles taught in junior high school science. They
hope you will assume.

Meanwhile, notice that green safety ground wire. It completely
bypasses the UPS to connect directly to computer motherboard to AC
wall. Don't take my word for it. Rush Limbaugh types hope you will do
that. Measure that bypass wire with a conductivity (volt-ohm) meter -
or open a computer to view it for yourself. Just another example of
what happens when one asks embarrassing questions of science promoted
by spin doctors - advertising. Demand that long list of numerical
specifications instead.

It's called lying by telling half truths. So easy in a computer
industry where so many 'computer assemblers' do not even know how
electricity works.
 
C

Cliff Wild

w_tom said:
Advertising is chock full of subjective claims, provides no numbers,
and routinely forgets to include relevant information. Much like Rush
Limbaugh or Radio Moscow. They are called computer grade UPS. This
one, for example, claims to output a modified sine wave. Let's look
at that 120 volt sine wave. Two 200 volt square waves with up to a
270 volt spike between those square waves. Yes, there is a 120 sine
wave in that waveform. Power that might be destructive to some small
electric motors. But computers are so robust that this modified sine
wave is no threat to a computer.

It is called a computer grade UPS. It hopes you will assume that
means cleaner power when it often means dirtiest power in battery
backup mode. But again, where did they provide numbers and underlying
facts in that advertisement. This is also how some promoted WMDs -
hoping you would not notice missing numbers and underlying facts.

They are not lying as you might assume. It's called lying by
telling half truths. They hope you will use word association as a
replacement for principles taught in junior high school science. They
hope you will assume.

Meanwhile, notice that green safety ground wire. It completely
bypasses the UPS to connect directly to computer motherboard to AC
wall. Don't take my word for it. Rush Limbaugh types hope you will
do that. Measure that bypass wire with a conductivity (volt-ohm)
meter - or open a computer to view it for yourself. Just another
example of what happens when one asks embarrassing questions of
science promoted by spin doctors - advertising. Demand that long
list of numerical specifications instead.

It's called lying by telling half truths. So easy in a computer
industry where so many 'computer assemblers' do not even know how
electricity works.


Gee, I use mine to keep my computer from shutting off right away whenever
my electricity goes out. What do you use?
 
E

Emperor's New Widescreen

I doubt it, the computer is more likely to make your sausages
defrost :O)

The user may well be flakier than you believe.

Spyware, viruses, configuration problem etc are a far more likely
culprits IMO.

The only problem I would expect a fridge to cause is a crash
then the fridges motor kicks in, most of the time the fridge
won't be drawing any current, apart from that to power the light
inside which is always on for some reason, you can check this
by opening the door and having a look :O|
You would have though some bright spark would have figured
out a way of switching it off when the door was closed wouldn't you.
 
C

CBFalconer

Emperor's New Widescreen said:
.... snip ...

The only problem I would expect a fridge to cause is a crash
then the fridges motor kicks in, most of the time the fridge
won't be drawing any current, apart from that to power the light
inside which is always on for some reason, you can check this
by opening the door and having a look :O|
You would have though some bright spark would have figured
out a way of switching it off when the door was closed wouldn't you.

Please don't toppost. Your answer belongs after, or intermixed
with, the material to which you reply, with anything not germane to
your answer snipped out.

The problem with refrigerator (or other) motor startup is not
likely to occur at the actual start, but just after. Some sort of
centrifugal switch usually switches out some starting coils, and
breaking that circuit causes inductive surges and noise. This is
likely to occur about 2 seconds after the actual start.

You will get a similar, but smaller, problem at motor stop.
Smaller because the running currents are lower than the startup
currents.

--
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/>
Also see <http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/>
 
E

Emperor's New Widescreen

I think top posting is fine and should be compulsary
it mamkes everything easier.
 
C

CBFalconer

Emperor's New Widescreen said:
I think top posting is fine and should be compulsary
it mamkes everything easier.

Fine. You don't want any replies from me, at least. I won't be
noticing you any more. Others are doing the same, but not
bothering to tell you about it. PLONK.

It is fairly easy to be a rude imbecile and get on a PLONK list.
Without anybody noticing you it is comparitively hard to get off.

--
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/>
Also see <http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/>
 
E

Emperor's New Widescreen

Thats fine, I don't particularly lilke being bullied anyway.
I found at school that a swift punch on the nose was the
best way to deal with them, they tend to leave you alone
after that.
 
B

Bob Day

mandygal said:
I have a PC with terrible performance that defies troubleshooting. I
may be grabbing a straws here, but the PC shares a wall (and electrical
circuits) with a refrigerator - could that have any impact?

Unlikely, but you might unplug your refrigerator for a while
to see whether the problems persist.

What are the specifications for your computer? How much RAM?
What CPU, CPU speed, hard drive, video card, power supply?

-- Bob Day
http://bobday.vze.com
 
K

kony

Thats fine, I don't particularly lilke being bullied anyway.
I found at school that a swift punch on the nose was the
best way to deal with them, they tend to leave you alone
after that.


..... Or punch back twice as hard...
 

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