C-sharp demand on par with Assembler - Apache releases a Java app server (Re: Skills in most demand)

[T.G.Reaper]

For flying by wire ( i.e. via electronics ) ...

You suggested:
" sophisticated platforms like .NET
with automatic garbage collection "

Last I checked garbage collection was a good thing.

And have the code lock up under random garbage collection
while trying to land a 747 in a rainstorm ? !

That'd be a bonanza for the 11 o'clock news.

Last time I looked in the cockpit of a 747 the pilot was much more
interested in the altimeter, compass, attitude indicator, airspeed,
and the position of all the control surfaces, when landing.

None of those basic systems, to the best of my knowledge, is in any way
dependent on Microsoft Windows for anything. But feel free to call and
ask the avionics companies and ask them.

Can I have some of what you're smoking?

--
[11:33:10] Reaper $ su NormalUser
Password:
[11:33:10] Reaper $ whoami
root
[11:33:10] Reaper $
**************************************************************
no entry in .passwd or .groups file for NormalUser localy.
Now I wonder what happens if I delete that entry for root
from the .passwd file...?
\etc\ #: Cheers - T.G. Reaper
** If anybody knows for sure, give me your opinion ***********

 

[Jeff Relf]

Hi Mike Williams,

Re: Cheap programmers from India, Asia, etc. .

You astutely noted,
" I would agree that there is a bit of a language problem
due to the fact that English is not their first language,
but judging by the appalling grammar
and spelling in many newsgroup messages
written by native English and American programmers
I can't see that being too much of a problem for them ! "

Touche !

 

[Joe Jitsu]

Hi Mike Williams,

Re: Cheap programmers from India, Asia, etc. .

You astutely noted,
" I would agree that there is a bit of a language problem
due to the fact that English is not their first language,

English, as far as I know, is a universally learned language in India.

Spoken, and written, beautifully by it's people.

Have you read "The Life of Pi" ?

 

[Jeff Relf]

Hi T.G.Reaper,

Re: Landing a 747 in a hurricane ( ha ha ).

You mentioned,
" None of those basic systems, to the best of my knowledge,
is in any way dependent on Microsoft Windows for anything. "

Of course not, it's all black boxes.
( Never to be confused with white boxes )

I'm saying that C# and garbage collection
in a cockpit device is an absurd notion.

 

[Jeff Relf]

Hi Joe Jitsu,

You wrongly suggested,
" English, as far as I know,
is a universally learned language in India.
Spoken, and written, beautifully by it's people. "

No John, most people there don't speak English.
And even if they do, it's not their first language.
And it's usually very hard to understand.

Not that there aren't exceptions to that general rule.

You asked me, ' Have you read " The Life of Pi " ? '

No. I almost never read books.
As you know, I much prefer Usenet and the web.

 

[Joe Jitsu]

I would fly to Trinidad and Tobago as long
as the autopilot was written in c# !

Who needs pilots ?!?!

Foolhardy...but quite sound.

BTW, did you know that the Sung tribe, who speak only in tongue clicks,
don't use /c#/ -- they use /!c/

 

[Joe Jitsu]

No John, most people there don't speak English.
And even if they do, it's not their first language.
And it's usually very hard to understand.

<quote>
Officially English has a status of assistant language, but in fact it is
the most important language of India. After Hindi it is the most
commonly spoken language in India and probably the most read and written
language in India. Indians who know English will always try to show that
they know English.
</quote>

http://adaniel.tripod.com/Languages3.htm

Unlike our colony, India had the good sense to remain part of Her
Majesty's Empire well into the 20th Century. If not for that awful bald
fellow and his dohti, we would all be eating crumpets and tea on the
veranda! ( Col. Reginald A. Spiffs, Rtd. )

No. I almost never read books.
As you know, I much prefer Usenet and the web.

And they feel sorry for kids who watch too much t.v. -- mmm

 

[Jeff Relf]

Hi Joe Jitsu,

Re: The idea of programming a cockpit device using C# .

You wrote,
" I can't stand all this bullshit about
object disoriented thingies ...
Just give me the circuit board schematic ...
and a way to feed it some bits. "

That's all well and good, Mr. Jitsu,
but I hope you have some very competent testers.

Speaking of testing cockpit devices,
I hear that the people in Kent are good at that.
( Nasa: Need Another Seven Astronauts )

 

[Joe Jitsu]

" I can't stand all this bullshit about
object disoriented thingies ...
Just give me the circuit board schematic ...
and a way to feed it some bits. "

Jeff -- surely, you jest. We all know that you will only fly airlines
that manage their real time flight autopilots with r/t COBOL.

But then again, you're the type who likes to call the Flight Attendents
'stewardesses'. Then you drink too many G&T's and start using corny
pickup lines like "I'm Jeff. Fly Me." while trying to pinch their asses.

 

[Mike Williams]

English, as far as I know, is a universally learned language
in India. Spoken, and written, beautifully by it's people.

I would agree that English is spoken by a large number of Indian people,
many of whom I would imagine speak it very well indeed, but it is definitely
not "universally learned", as you have suggested. In fact the official
status of the English language in India is "assistant language". I believe
that Hindi is the most commonly spoken language in India. I don't mention
those facts because I am in some way biased against the Indian people,
because I am not (except for the fact that I most certainly do not like the
way that most influential Indian people subscribe to the "caste" system,
which is itself "bias in the extreme" and which is a thoroughly nasty and
disgusting thing). The sooner the native Indian people come to respect each
other the sooner they will command the respect of other people in this
world, myself included.

Mike

 

[Jeff Relf]

Hi Joe Jitsu,

Are you claiming
that most people in India speak English well ?

I live with people from India,
I talk to them about this very topic.

English speakers in India, especially good speakers,
are few and far between.

 

[Mike Williams]

Unlike our colony, India had the good sense to remain part
of Her Majesty's Empire well into the 20th Century. If not
for that awful bald fellow and his dohti, we would all be eating
crumpets and tea on the veranda!

ROTFLMAO!

Well at least a few would be having tea and crumpets on the veranda. The
vast majority, however, would still be crushed under foot by the awful,
terrible caste system. What a waste of potential. There are undoubtedly some
powerful intellects amongst the "lower castes" (I would suspect about the
same proportion as there are in the highest caste). What a waste! And so
cruel!

Mike

 

[thad01]

So, a .NET fly by wire, writen in Advanced XML, would require a lot of
$55,000 a year people, to basically make sure there were enough try/catch
blocks to insure stability.

But nobody would have to worry about null pointers, for instance, so why
pay big bucks ?

Unfortunately, the aerospace industry is not compatible with that
plan. To gain approval for installing a new piece of hardware/software
in a commercial airplane requires an exhaustive certification process
(do a google search on DO178B certification). For software, this
means requirement and design documents, gazillions of test cases,
code coverage analysis, etc... for every line of code including the
libraries and tools. This certification process is often 10 times
the effort of writing the software. Obviously, this creates an
incentive to keep the software as lean as possible (i.e. no bloated
OO tool-kits). It is interesting to note that a few embedded
software companies make there living selling very expensive
pre-certified operating systems exactly because it is such a pain
in the *ss to go through the certification process.

It is also why MS software will have a hard time finding its way onto
flight critical systems. You first of all would need access to the
source code, the time and money to put it through the certification
process (ouch), and the ability to make changes to the code base
when components fail certification. This is why Linux is much more
popular for many embedded applications. The source code is available
without expensive license fees, and the modular unix-like design
makes it easier to trim down to the bare minimums.

I'm currently working on an embedded computer system for planes
like the 777 (google on Boeing EFB). Unlike earlier fixed function
instruments, this unit is designed to have new applications loaded on
it over time. Of course any flight critical apps still need to go
through certification, and this would preclude a purely MS Windows
solution. The answer was to design a Linux/Windows hybrid; basically
two computers on one board with the Linux side acting as the firewall
between Windows and the airplane. Flight critical apps (like anything
that shows a moving map) are required to run on the Linux side. It
is actually a rather unique design.

http://www.aviationtoday.com/cgi/av/show_mag.cgi?pub=av&mon=0903&file=0903efb.htm

Cheers!

 

[Martin Trump]

Are you claiming
that most people in India speak English well ?

(OT)

My ISP has recently moved it's help line to India.

Utter disaster. Duff info and incomprehensible speech.

Regards.

 

[Roedy Green]

I would agree that English is spoken by a large number of Indian people,
many of whom I would imagine speak it very well indeed, but it is definitely
not "universally learned", as you have suggested. In fact the official
status of the English language in India is "assistant language".

I stayed in Bombay in 1985 for a month. Nearly everyone spoke
English, though at first it was often hard to tell. People would talk
loudly to me, thinking my problem with comprehension was deafness.

There are an astounding number of languages and alphabets in India.
English is what ties everyone together.

Even back then it was obvious to me that India would be come an major
software power. People were SO eager to learn about computers. Word
got out that I knew about them and people approached me everywhere.
Further, the computer shopkeepers were much more informed than those
back home.

 

[Mike Williams]

Even back then it was obvious to me that India would be come
an major software power. People were SO eager to learn about
computers.

Yes. You're probably right. Such a pity that such a small percentage of them
are given the facilities to learn about them.

Mike

 

[Jörn W. Janneck]

Yes. You're probably right. Such a pity that such a small percentage of them
are given the facilities to learn about them.

then again, it is a country with limited financial resources, and in spite
of this it churns out a huge number of incredibly well-qualified
graduates---many of which go on to contribute to other societies, especially
the u.s., where indians are a significant and important part of the academic
community.

personally, i applaud the dedication of this large and poor country to
improving its condition through educating its people.

-- j

 

[Joe Jitsu]

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 20:32:54 +0100, "Mike Williams"

Even back then it was obvious to me that India would be come an major
software power. People were SO eager to learn about computers. Word
got out that I knew about them and people approached me everywhere.
Further, the computer shopkeepers were much more informed than those
back home.

What about India'a capacity to 'absorb' software as well as produce it?

It would seem with it's large population, the need to innovate and
enhance it's society, the great manufacturing base and so on... that
long term, it will be a major software *market* -- not just an
offshoring site.

 

[Mike Williams]

personally, i applaud the dedication of this large and poor
country to improving its condition through educating its people.

So would I, if it made an effort to educate *all* of its people. Sadly,
hundreds of millions of its citizens are denied a proper education (and a
lot more besides) simply because they were unfortunate enough to be born to
parents of the "lower castes". Very sad. Very sad indeed. I can understand
that cash for educational purposes is limited and that sometimes tough
decisions have to be made, but such decisions should not be taken purely on
the grounds that a child happened to be born in the "wrong" place to the
"wrong" parents!

Mike

 

[Jörn W. Janneck]

So would I, if it made an effort to educate *all* of its people. Sadly,
hundreds of millions of its citizens are denied a proper education (and a
lot more besides) simply because they were unfortunate enough to be born to
parents of the "lower castes". Very sad. Very sad indeed. I can understand
that cash for educational purposes is limited and that sometimes tough
decisions have to be made, but such decisions should not be taken purely on
the grounds that a child happened to be born in the "wrong" place to the
"wrong" parents!

no argument there.

as far as i know (and admittedly i am no expert on this, i essentially
parrot what i hear from colleagues and friends), there is in fact some form
of affirmative action going on which reserves quotas for "lower" castes. and
it seems to be troubled with all the usual problems, such as that caste
(like race) is not a perfect predictor for economic power and degree of
being "disadvantaged," the people who benefit from affirmative action are
injected into an environment in which they are representatives of an
identifiable minority, and which might see their presence as something that
was given to them, rather than as something they earned etc. so yeah, it's
not all great, but what else is there to do?

and, of course, it is still the case that *economic* factors (which often,
but by far not always, mirror or stem from the caste structure) result in
very unequal access to higher education. but this is really no different in
the u.s. (which is where i happen to sit), and if the richest country in the
world cannot provide high-quality education to all its citizens, how can we
possibly expect a country like india to be able to?

-- j