Building your own pc - OEM software?

[Matt Mucklo]

I have a question regarding Microsoft Licensing.

Is it legal to purchase and install OEM Windows XP or OEM Microsoft Office
for a PC you are building yourself?

When is it legal to install OEM software?

How about for a PC you have already built, but are refurbishing (installing
new components and fresh software, for example)?

 

[Rick \Nutcase\ Rogers]

Hi Matt Mucklo,

I have a question regarding Microsoft Licensing.

Ok, shoot. These are always fun.

Is it legal to purchase and install OEM Windows XP or OEM Microsoft Office
for a PC you are building yourself?

Absolutely, that's what the stand alone, generic OEM versions are for. The
only "technical" requirement is that they be purchased with a piece of
hardware that is used in the building of that machine, but that would be
impossible (and ridiculous) to enforce.

When is it legal to install OEM software?

The question should be "When is it illegal to install OEM software?", and
the answer would be that you cannot install it when that particular license
has already been used and activated on another machine. Otherwise, there is
no real restriction on when an OEM version can be used versus a retail
license - the difference being that the latter can be migrated to a new
system, and OEM one cannot.

How about for a PC you have already built, but are refurbishing
(installing new components and fresh software, for example)?

Sure, nothing wrong with doing that.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

 

[Leythos]

I have a question regarding Microsoft Licensing.

Is it legal to purchase and install OEM Windows XP or OEM Microsoft Office
for a PC you are building yourself?

When is it legal to install OEM software?

How about for a PC you have already built, but are refurbishing (installing
new components and fresh software, for example)?

I buy OEM licensed software all the time, with computers, with hardware,
etc... The key is that the OEM software has limitations on
installations.

As an example, Office 2003 SBE Retail may be installed on your home PC
and your Laptop at the same time, but the OEM Version can only be
installed on one or the other, not both.

 

[Grok]

Matt Mucklo wrote:
| I have a question regarding Microsoft Licensing.
|
| Is it legal to purchase and install OEM Windows XP or OEM Microsoft Office
| for a PC you are building yourself?
|
| When is it legal to install OEM software?
|
| How about for a PC you have already built, but are refurbishing
| (installing new components and fresh software, for example)?

Yes, it is legal.

It is legal to install OEM software if it hasn't been used on another
machine.

Fine, yes, refurbishing or rebuilding, you can install OEM software.

Note, though:

The **sellers** of OEM software have certain restrictions. OEM Windows must
be sold with a piece of computer equipment - anything - even something as
small as a cable or floppy drive or somesuch. This would only behoove the
seller not the buyer, although I am not a lawyer. So if you bought it
without buying hardware it doesn't affect you the buyer, only the seller who
shouldn't have sold it that way.

OEM Microsoft Office sells differently. OEM Office must be sold with a
"complete system". Again, this would only behoove the seller not the buyer,
although I am not a lawyer.

So if you go to ask for an OEM copy of Office without having bought a
complete system and the seller refuses, don't be surprised as he is sticking
to his agreement with Microsoft. Getting Windows OEM is easier because all
you need do is buy a cable or floppy drive when buying Windows OEM.

 

[Alias]

Grok wrote:

The **sellers** of OEM software have certain restrictions. OEM Windows must
be sold with a piece of computer equipment - anything - even something as
small as a cable or floppy drive or somesuch.

Grok

That's only true in backwards countries such as the USA. Here in Spain,
no such hardware is required to buy a legit generic OEM copy of XP.

Alias

 

[Kerry Brown]

Grok wrote:

The **sellers** of OEM software have certain restrictions. OEM
Windows must be sold with a piece of computer equipment - anything -
even something as small as a cable or floppy drive or somesuch. This
would only behoove the seller not the buyer, although I am not a
lawyer. So if you bought it without buying hardware it doesn't affect
you the buyer, only the seller who shouldn't have sold it that way.

This is no longer true. OEM XP can only be sold to another "System Builder"
in unopened OEM packs. It's been like this since August 2005. Once the
package is opened it must be installed on a system before it can be sold.
There is a one pack SKU but most OEMs buy three packs or thirty packs which
cannot be broken up into individual units by the new agreement. Many small
OEMs are unaware of this and/or there is still old product in the chain so
it is possible to buy OEM XP. Whoever sells it to you is breaking their
agreement with Microsoft. There is no requirement for hardware if you
purchase a one pack and say you are a system builder.

Kerry

 

[Alias]

Grok wrote:



This is no longer true. OEM XP can only be sold to another "System Builder"
in unopened OEM packs. It's been like this since August 2005. Once the
package is opened it must be installed on a system before it can be sold.
There is a one pack SKU but most OEMs buy three packs or thirty packs which
cannot be broken up into individual units by the new agreement. Many small
OEMs are unaware of this and/or there is still old product in the chain so
it is possible to buy OEM XP. Whoever sells it to you is breaking their
agreement with Microsoft. There is no requirement for hardware if you
purchase a one pack and say you are a system builder.

Kerry

Perhaps this is true in whatever country you live in but not in Spain.
All retail computer stores sell single generic XP OEMs with NO hardware
and some of them even sell them in Spanish, German and English. Please
note that this is an international newsgroup and adjust your posts as
necessary to reflect the differences between a backwards country such as
the USA and civilized countries.

Now, before you start ranting and raving about how retail stores are
breaking the law, getting rid of old stock and other such garbage, one
must order the German and English ones as they are not in stock. Guess
where the retail stores order them from? You got it, Microsoft!

Just for grins, however, I went to the Wallmart web site and, lo and
behold, according to your "information", Wallmart is breaking the law!:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=3954&path=0:3944:3951:3954

because they sell XP pro and home, one at a time, OEM, with a mouse.

Oops.

Alias

 

[Kerry Brown]

Perhaps this is true in whatever country you live in but not in Spain.
All retail computer stores sell single generic XP OEMs with NO
hardware and some of them even sell them in Spanish, German and
English. Please note that this is an international newsgroup and
adjust your posts as necessary to reflect the differences between a
backwards country such as the USA and civilized countries.

Now, before you start ranting and raving about how retail stores are
breaking the law, getting rid of old stock and other such garbage, one
must order the German and English ones as they are not in stock. Guess
where the retail stores order them from? You got it, Microsoft!

Just for grins, however, I went to the Wallmart web site and, lo and
behold, according to your "information", Wallmart is breaking the
law!:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=3954&path=0:3944:3951:3954

because they sell XP pro and home, one at a time, OEM, with a mouse.

Oops.

Alias

Alias

You continue to flog this dead horse. I never said anything was against the
law. I also allowed that many OEMs don't know the rules and that there is
still old stock in the chain. Obviously the OEM agreement may be different
in different countries. Just because someone does something doesn't make it
right. Personally I stick to my word so I abide by the OEM agreement. Some
people don't. That doesn't negate the fact that their is a new agreement as
of last August.

Kerry

 

[Alias]

Alias

You continue to flog this dead horse. I never said anything was against the
law. I also allowed that many OEMs don't know the rules and that there is
still old stock in the chain. Obviously the OEM agreement may be different
in different countries. Just because someone does something doesn't make it
right. Personally I stick to my word so I abide by the OEM agreement. Some
people don't. That doesn't negate the fact that their is a new agreement as
of last August.

Kerry

Wallmart doesn't know the law or MS' rules? Puhlease. I covered your
lame stock point and you would have known that had you read my post.

My OEM agreements, on three computers, say nothing about buying OEMs one
at a time or in packs. Care you *prove* there is a new agreement? I have
yet to receive my copy so I will go on the one I agreed to, not some
agreement I didn't agree to and allegedly appeared *after* I paid my
hard earned money.

Alias

 

[Kerry Brown]

Wallmart doesn't know the law or MS' rules? Puhlease. I covered your
lame stock point and you would have known that had you read my post.

My OEM agreements, on three computers, say nothing about buying OEMs
one at a time or in packs. Care you *prove* there is a new agreement?
I have yet to receive my copy so I will go on the one I agreed to,
not some agreement I didn't agree to and allegedly appeared *after* I
paid my hard earned money.

Alias

Do you resell OEM software? No, then you are not an OEM system builder so
there is nothing for you to agree to other than the EULA. The EULA is
irrelevant to this discussion. We are talking about an agreement between OEM
system builders and Microsoft. Once the software is in the hands of the end
user (you), the end user is doing nothing wrong by installing and using it.

As far as Walmart I can think of several likely scenarios. The web site is
in error and the product isn't available. Maybe someone can order it and see
what happens. The buyer for Walmart is not a computer specialist and doesn't
realise the rules have changed. Or most likely as it seems to be a web only
deal: They are getting rid of old stock. Walmart obviously buys in very
large quantities to support their business model. It wouldn't surprise me to
find out they have tens of thousands of old stock on hand.

Kerry

 

[Grok]

Alias wrote:
| Grok wrote:
|
| The **sellers** of OEM software have certain restrictions. OEM Windows
| must be sold with a piece of computer equipment - anything - even
| something as small as a cable or floppy drive or somesuch.
|
|| Grok
|
| That's only true in backwards countries such as the USA. Here in Spain,
| no such hardware is required to buy a legit generic OEM copy of XP.
|
| Alias

The laws are different in different place. Here in Canada I think a good
lawyer could make a winning case for getting away with casual copying within
the home a la "fair use" and common practice.. It's off and on OK to copy
music etc. etc. already here, so why should copying software be exempt as
it too comes under a copyright issue not a mechanical issue?

But I'm not going to argue about it either way. If I wants Windows, I buy my
copies and use according to licence. If others don't that's their and the
law's business, not mine.

 

[Grok]

Kerry Brown wrote:
|
|
| This is no longer true. OEM XP can only be sold to another "System
| Builder" in unopened OEM packs. It's been like this since August 2005.
| Once the package is opened it must be installed on a system before it can
| be sold. There is a one pack SKU but most OEMs buy three packs or thirty
| packs which cannot be broken up into individual units by the new
| agreement. Many small OEMs are unaware of this and/or there is still old
| product in the chain so it is possible to buy OEM XP. Whoever sells it to
| you is breaking their agreement with Microsoft. There is no requirement
| for hardware if you purchase a one pack and say you are a system builder.
|
| Kerry
|

I checked and you are correct. My bad. In the USA at least, according to
Microsoft at least, OEM Windows should sell with a mobo, cpu, powersupply,
harddrive.

4. SOFTWARE DISTRIBUTION.
4.1 We grant you a nonexclusive right to distribute an individual software
license only with a fully assembled computer system. A "fully assembled
computer system" means a computer system consisting of at least a central
processing unit, a motherboard, a hard drive, a power supply, and a case.

4.2 Each individual software license must be distributed pursuant to the
end-user license agreement ("EULA") that accompanies the individual software
license. Under the terms of the EULA, you are the licensor.

http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/English_SB_License.pdf

 

[Kerry Brown]

This is no longer true. OEM XP can only be sold to another "System
Builder" in unopened OEM packs. It's been like this since August
2005. Once the package is opened it must be installed on a system
before it can be sold. There is a one pack SKU but most OEMs buy
three packs or thirty packs which cannot be broken up into
individual units by the new agreement. Many small OEMs are unaware
of this and/or there is still old product in the chain so it is
possible to buy OEM XP. Whoever sells it to you is breaking their
agreement with Microsoft. There is no requirement for hardware if
you purchase a one pack and say you are a system builder.

Kerry

I checked and you are correct. My bad. In the USA at least, according
to Microsoft at least, OEM Windows should sell with a mobo, cpu,
powersupply, harddrive.

4. SOFTWARE DISTRIBUTION.
4.1 We grant you a nonexclusive right to distribute an individual
software license only with a fully assembled computer system. A
"fully assembled computer system" means a computer system consisting
of at least a central processing unit, a motherboard, a hard drive, a
power supply, and a case.

4.2 Each individual software license must be distributed pursuant to
the end-user license agreement ("EULA") that accompanies the
individual software license. Under the terms of the EULA, you are the
licensor.

http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/English_SB_License.pdf

You can sell unopened packages of OEM software (not unopened individual
items from within a package) to System Builders. If you can find the elusive
one pack of OEM XP it is actually easier to sell it retail now. All some one
has to say is they are building a pc and they are a System Builder. I think
the whole point of this new procedure is make sure that everyone who ends up
with OEM software gets a copy of the OEM agreement. This way there is no
confusion over who is responsible for support and how OEM software is
licensed. Note this only applies to some OEM software. Per the agreement OEM
Office and server OS's have different rules.

Kerry

 

[Grok]

Kerry Brown wrote:
| Grok wrote:
|| Kerry Brown wrote:
|||
|||
||| This is no longer true. OEM XP can only be sold to another "System
||| Builder" in unopened OEM packs. It's been like this since August
||| 2005. Once the package is opened it must be installed on a system
||| before it can be sold. There is a one pack SKU but most OEMs buy
||| three packs or thirty packs which cannot be broken up into
||| individual units by the new agreement. Many small OEMs are unaware
||| of this and/or there is still old product in the chain so it is
||| possible to buy OEM XP. Whoever sells it to you is breaking their
||| agreement with Microsoft. There is no requirement for hardware if
||| you purchase a one pack and say you are a system builder.
|||
||| Kerry
|||
||
|| I checked and you are correct. My bad. In the USA at least, according
|| to Microsoft at least, OEM Windows should sell with a mobo, cpu,
|| powersupply, harddrive.
||
||

|| 4. SOFTWARE DISTRIBUTION.
|| 4.1 We grant you a nonexclusive right to distribute an individual
|| software license only with a fully assembled computer system. A
|| "fully assembled computer system" means a computer system consisting
|| of at least a central processing unit, a motherboard, a hard drive, a
|| power supply, and a case.
||
|| 4.2 Each individual software license must be distributed pursuant to
|| the end-user license agreement ("EULA") that accompanies the
|| individual software license. Under the terms of the EULA, you are the
|| licensor.

||
||
http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/English_SB_License.pdf
|
| You can sell unopened packages of OEM software (not unopened individual
| items from within a package) to System Builders. If you can find the
| elusive one pack of OEM XP it is actually easier to sell it retail now.
| All some one has to say is they are building a pc and they are a System
| Builder. I think the whole point of this new procedure is make sure that
| everyone who ends up with OEM software gets a copy of the OEM agreement.
| This way there is no confusion over who is responsible for support and
| how OEM software is licensed. Note this only applies to some OEM
| software. Per the agreement OEM Office and server OS's have different
| rules.
|
| Kerry

Thanks for the clarification. The buyer of course, has no obligation though.
If a person is able to buy an OEM w/o hardware that is just his shopping
prowress and he is not obliged, other than that the license is for one
undefective mobo only.

 

[Steve N.]

Do you resell OEM software? No, then you are not an OEM system builder so
there is nothing for you to agree to other than the EULA. The EULA is
irrelevant to this discussion. We are talking about an agreement between OEM
system builders and Microsoft. Once the software is in the hands of the end
user (you), the end user is doing nothing wrong by installing and using it.

As far as Walmart I can think of several likely scenarios. The web site is
in error and the product isn't available. Maybe someone can order it and see
what happens. The buyer for Walmart is not a computer specialist and doesn't
realise the rules have changed. Or most likely as it seems to be a web only
deal: They are getting rid of old stock. Walmart obviously buys in very
large quantities to support their business model. It wouldn't surprise me to
find out they have tens of thousands of old stock on hand.

Kerry

From what I see on their website OEM XP (home or pro) can only be
ordered online and the buyer is supposed to read and agree to the System
Builders license, which they have a link to. Looks to me that they've
covered their butts.

Steve N.

 

[Kerry Brown]

Thanks for the clarification. The buyer of course, has no obligation
though. If a person is able to buy an OEM w/o hardware that is just
his shopping prowress and he is not obliged, other than that the
license is for one undefective mobo only.

Technically according to the OEM agreement they would have to use the OPK
kit to install the OS and create their own branding. How many legitimate
OEM's do this though

Kerry

 

[Michael Stevens]

Do you resell OEM software? No, then you are not an OEM system builder so
there is nothing for you to agree to other than the EULA. The EULA is
irrelevant to this discussion. We are talking about an agreement between
OEM system builders and Microsoft. Once the software is in the hands of
the end user (you), the end user is doing nothing wrong by installing and
using it.

As far as Walmart I can think of several likely scenarios. The web site is
in error and the product isn't available. Maybe someone can order it and
see what happens.

You would be wrong, they sell OEM versions of XP all the time. So do Fry's a
large electronics chain located in California. I was just there and they
sell generic OEM versions of XP with qualifying hardware. I am sure
Microsoft is well aware of this and would not allow sales if they did not
approve of it.

The buyer for Walmart is not a computer specialist and doesn't

realise the rules have changed. Or most likely as it seems to be a web
only deal: They are getting rid of old stock. Walmart obviously buys in
very large quantities to support their business model. It wouldn't
surprise me to find out they have tens of thousands of old stock on hand.

You would be wrong on all counts. Same applies as stated above. I saw OEM XP
versions in a Texas Walmart in November of last year, and I doubt it was old
stock given the volume of sales Walmart generates.

--
Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm

 

[Kerry Brown]

You would be wrong, they sell OEM versions of XP all the time. So do
Fry's a large electronics chain located in California. I was just
there and they sell generic OEM versions of XP with qualifying
hardware. I am sure Microsoft is well aware of this and would not
allow sales if they did not approve of it.

The buyer for Walmart is not a computer specialist and doesn't

You would be wrong on all counts. Same applies as stated above. I saw
OEM XP versions in a Texas Walmart in November of last year, and I
doubt it was old stock given the volume of sales Walmart generates.

Then either they have a different OEM agreement with Microsoft or they are
ignoring the current agreement. The only way to tell would be to see the
master package that the OEM software came in and which OEM agreement was on
it.

Kerry

 

[Michael Stevens]

I would tend to go with they have a different agreement from a small system
builder. They are selling's in the thousands as opposed to 10 to 100
licenses a year for the small system builder. They still make a profit on
each unit sold, so marketing will negotiate deals that generate big profits
for volume sellers. The bottom line is if the purchase is made from a
certified seller and the product key is valid. There is no way MS would turn
a blind eye to a big company like Wal-Mart selling unauthorized versions of
their software. The thing about OEM versions is MS has no obligation to
provide support, and that is one of the biggest expenses incurred on
software providers.
Basically I see when MS sells a generic OEM version with qualifying
hardware, that makes the purchaser the OEM builder. They then have the right
to determine what upgrades determines a system being a new system. This is
totally different from a system purchased from a branded OEM. The Branded
OEM is responsible for the support and they would have the say so on what
hardware it can be transferred to. Usually this would be a non-approved
motherboard.
Any OEM version cannot be sold and/or installed, transferred to a completely
different computer.
--
Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm

 

[Kerry Brown]

Time will tell. Personally I much prefer the new OEM agreement and hope that
eventually it will be applied to everyone. It will eliminate a lot of
confusion. If the new rules are applied no one will end up with OEM software
without also getting a copy of the OEM agreement. No one will be able to say
that they didn't know the restrictions on OEM software.

Kerry