boot from external usb hard drive ?

[Scottie3k]

Good day all

I have a littel issue that I'm hoping someone can resove 4 me

I have a Dell Latitude D610 laptop with WinXP Pro installed with SP2
and it has USB2. I removed the harddrive and put in another one
formated and installed XP Pro in FAT32 on it with SP2, then installe
all the drivers. I pulled out the new harddrive and put it into
external USB2 harddrive enclosure. I put back my original harddriv
into my laptop, set my BIOS sequence to boot from USB first and le
it run.

My problem is, once the black XP screen with little blue progress ba
starts, it will stay on the screen for about 10 seconds max an
reboot itself, then give me the boot options, i.e. safe mode, normal
etc ... I select normal, and same thing over and over again. I als
trien safe mode, and it does start to lead files, and stops half wa
throught, then reboots ...

I have also done this with only the USB drive connected to my laqpto
with the internal drive pulled out, same problem :-

Any ideas ?

Thank you very much in advance to all

 

[Rod Speed]

Good day all,

I have a littel issue that I'm hoping someone can resove 4 me.

I have a Dell Latitude D610 laptop with WinXP Pro installed with SP2,
and it has USB2. I removed the harddrive and put in another one,
formated and installed XP Pro in FAT32 on it with SP2, then installed
all the drivers. I pulled out the new harddrive and put it into a
external USB2 harddrive enclosure. I put back my original harddrive
into my laptop, set my BIOS sequence to boot from USB first and let
it run.

My problem is, once the black XP screen with little blue progress bar
starts, it will stay on the screen for about 10 seconds max and
reboot itself, then give me the boot options, i.e. safe mode, normal,
etc ... I select normal, and same thing over and over again. I also
trien safe mode, and it does start to lead files, and stops half way
throught, then reboots ...

I have also done this with only the USB drive connected to my laqptop
with the internal drive pulled out, same problem :-(

Any ideas ?

It aint that easy to boot XP from a USB drive, mainly because
the very early boot phase doesnt really allow for it properly.

Its not impossible, but you need to do more than
just install on the drive when its an internal drive
and then move it to the external enclosure.

If you dont mind the initial boot of a boot manager happening on the
internal drive, its rather easier to get it to boot XP of the USB drive.

 

[Thomas Wendell]

Good day all,

I have a littel issue that I'm hoping someone can resove 4 me.

I have a Dell Latitude D610 laptop with WinXP Pro installed with SP2,
and it has USB2. I removed the harddrive and put in another one,
formated and installed XP Pro in FAT32 on it with SP2, then installed
all the drivers. I pulled out the new harddrive and put it into a
external USB2 harddrive enclosure. I put back my original harddrive
into my laptop, set my BIOS sequence to boot from USB first and let
it run.

My problem is, once the black XP screen with little blue progress bar
starts, it will stay on the screen for about 10 seconds max and
reboot itself, then give me the boot options, i.e. safe mode, normal,
etc ... I select normal, and same thing over and over again. I also
trien safe mode, and it does start to lead files, and stops half way
throught, then reboots ...

I have also done this with only the USB drive connected to my laqptop
with the internal drive pulled out, same problem :-(

Any ideas ?

Thank you very much in advance to all !

Yep: XP is NOT capable of living on a removable disk....



--
Tumppi
=================================
Most learned on these newsgroups
Helsinki, FINLAND
(translations from/to FI not always accurate
=================================

 

[Peter]

Yep: XP is NOT capable of living on a removable disk....

Yes and no. Did you ever use BartPE?

 

[Eric Gisin]

XP is not capable of booting from USB. Firewire and SCSI work fine.

Yes and no. Did you ever use BartPE?

It has its own USB to RAM driver hack. Stock XP will not.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

If you dont mind the initial boot of a boot manager
happening on the internal drive, its rather easier to
get it to boot XP of the USB drive.

You mean having ntldr, boot.ini, and ntdetect.com
on an ATA HD drive partition and the WINDOWS
folder on a USB HD partition? Is that all that's needed
to run WinXP on a USB HD?

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Yep: XP is NOT capable of living on a removable disk....

Wellllll..... not strictly true. You can put a SATA hard
drive in a removable tray and it will be removable. Although
it will not be hot swappable, it will meet ATA specs and it
can boot Windows. You could even put it in an external
enclosure, and if it has a SATA II cable, it will run while
being totally external and still meet EMI specs.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

You mean having ntldr, boot.ini, and ntdetect.com on an ATA HD drive
partition

No, I meant a more capable boot manager on that drive.

and the WINDOWS folder on a USB HD partition? Is that all that's needed
to run WinXP on a USB HD?

Dont know if that will work, basically because of what
needs to be specified in the boot.ini for that config.
Might well work if you use the signature specification
of what OS to boot in the boot.ini entry for the USB
drive, havent tried it or researched it either.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Wellllll..... not strictly true. You can put a SATA hard
drive in a removable tray and it will be removable. Although
it will not be hot swappable, it will meet ATA specs and it
can boot Windows. You could even put it in an external
enclosure,

and if it has a SATA II cable, it will run while
being totally external and still meet EMI specs.

Oh, what's a Sata II cable what's wrong with SATA-1 cables?

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Oh, what's a Sata II cable what's wrong with SATA-1 cables?

SATA II cables can be longer, they're better shielded
against EMI, they attach more firmly, and their connectors
allow for protection of the signal pins from electrical static
discharge when plugging and unplugging. See the white
paper by Silicon Image:
http://www.sata-io.org/docs/External SATA WP 11-09.pdf

*TimDaniels*

 

[Anna]

SATA II cables can be longer, they're better shielded
against EMI, they attach more firmly, and their connectors
allow for protection of the signal pins from electrical static
discharge when plugging and unplugging. See the white
paper by Silicon Image:
http://www.sata-io.org/docs/External SATA WP 11-09.pdf

*TimDaniels*

Tim:
To the best of my knowledge, the so-called SATA II signal/data cables
commercially available today incorporate a connector (or connectors) that's
specifically designed for a eSATA port (note the "e" for "external").
Presumably, but not always, the cable will have the additional shielding
called for in the specifications that you referenced.

AFAIK, the eSATA port is found on only a handful of motherboards (the ASUS
P5WD2 probably the most prominent among them). I'm not aware of a single
motherboard that contains an *internal* eSATA connector. The general SATA
signal/data cable in use today is incompatible, of course, with the eSATA
port.
Anna

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Tim:
To the best of my knowledge, the so-called SATA II signal/data
cables commercially available today incorporate a connector
(or connectors) that's specifically designed for a eSATA port
(note the "e" for "external").
Presumably, but not always, the cable will have the additional
shielding called for in the specifications that you referenced.

AFAIK, the eSATA port is found on only a handful of
motherboards (the ASUS P5WD2 probably the most prominent
among them). I'm not aware of a single motherboard that
contains an *internal* eSATA connector. The general SATA
signal/data cable in use today is incompatible, of course, with
the eSATA port.
Anna

Thanks for the extra info. If I were a "modder", not having
an eSATA connector on a motherboard wouldn't stop me.
I do expect, though, that there will soon be adaptors for PC
expansion slots that interface between SATA and eSATA
cables for people who want to connect external SATA HDs.
You, as I recall, have already found such expansion adaptors
for SATA-to-SATA cables.


*TimDaniels*

 

[Anna]

Thanks for the extra info. If I were a "modder", not having
an eSATA connector on a motherboard wouldn't stop me.
I do expect, though, that there will soon be adaptors for PC
expansion slots that interface between SATA and eSATA
cables for people who want to connect external SATA HDs.
You, as I recall, have already found such expansion adaptors
for SATA-to-SATA cables.

*TimDaniels*

Tim:
Yes, as we have previously discussed we are moving to using SATA hard drives
as external devices instead of using USB/Firewire external hard drives (at
least with respect to desktop PCs). The advantages in doing so are
considerable in that although the SATA drive is *physically* an external
device, i.e., it resides outside the computer case, the OS treats it as an
*internal* HD with all the advantages therein, to wit...
1. Performance-wise the *external* SATA HD is considerably superior to a
USB/FirewireEHD.
2. The OS can be *directly* installed (or cloned) to the external SATA HD
and it will be bootable.
3. It's "hot-pluggable" in virtually every case.
4. The *external* SATA HD can utilize the computer's power supply. There is
no need for an external PS.

What we've been using to facilitate the connections (data & power) between
the external SATA HD and the computer is simply installing the drive in a
removable tray (caddy) of a SATA mobile rack and running the SATA
signal/data cable to an available SATA connector on the motherboard and the
power cable to one of the computer's power supply connectors. So, in this
case it does mean you would have to snake the two cables from the drive to
the computer. We usually do it easily enough through the computer case I/O
backplane.

We have been using another device to facilitate matters - I believe that's
what you were referring to as an "expansion adapter". It's a simple &
inexpensive device that contains a SATA data port and a SATA power connector
and is simply fastened to an available slot on the computer's I/O backplane.
The data/power cables from the drive are connected to the device and the
device's interior data/power cables make the necessary connections within
the computer case.

And, of course, we've used the eSATA port (when available) for the
signal/data connection.
Anna

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Tim:
To the best of my knowledge, the so-called SATA II signal/data cables
commercially available today incorporate a connector (or connectors) that's
specifically designed for a eSATA port (note the "e" for "external").
Presumably, but not always, the cable will have the additional shielding
called for in the specifications that you referenced.

AFAIK, the eSATA port is found on only a handful of motherboards (the
ASUS P5WD2 probably the most prominent among them). I'm not aware
of a single motherboard that contains an *internal* eSATA connector.

The general SATA signal/data cable in use today is incompatible, of course,
with the eSATA port.

That takes care of that end but this also presents a new problem.

Although the eSATA port is stronger and the cable can be longer what about
the harddrive itself?
Will we see harddrives now that are specifically designed for eSATA use?

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Yes, as we have previously discussed we are moving
to using SATA hard drives as external devices instead
of using USB/Firewire external hard drives (at least with
respect to desktop PCs). The advantages in doing so are
considerable in that although the SATA drive is *physically*
an external device, i.e., it resides outside the computer
case, the OS treats it as an *internal* HD with all the
advantages therein, to wit...
1. Performance-wise the *external* SATA HD is
considerably superior to a USB/FirewireEHD.
2. The OS can be *directly* installed (or cloned) to
the external SATA HD and it will be bootable.
3. It's "hot-pluggable" in virtually every case.
4. The *external* SATA HD can utilize the computer's
power supply. There is no need for an external PS.

What we've been using to facilitate the connections
(data & power) between the external SATA HD and
the computer is simply installing the drive in a
removable tray (caddy) of a SATA mobile rack and
running the SATA signal/data cable to an available
SATA connector on the motherboard and the power
cable to one of the computer's power supply connectors.
So, in this case it does mean you would have to snake
the two cables from the drive to the computer. We
usually do it easily enough through the computer case
I/O backplane.

We have been using another device to facilitate matters -
I believe that's what you were referring to as an "expansion
adapter". It's a simple & inexpensive device that contains
a SATA data port and a SATA power connector and is
simply fastened to an available slot on the computer's I/O
backplane. The data/power cables from the drive are
connected to the device and the device's interior
data/power cables make the necessary connections
within the computer case.

And, of course, we've used the eSATA port (when available)
for the signal/data connection.
Anna

As you know, I'm a fan of removable HD trays, and I
see them and external SATA HDs as a boon to whole-
HD backups and archiving for multi-media file collections.
One problem, though, may be cooling for the external HDs.
There have been continuing complaints aired in the NG
about failing Maxtor OneTouch external USB HDs, and a
possible reason may be its lack of forced air cooling
(i.e. no fan). Other external HD enclosures provide power
for both the HD and a fan with an external "wall wart"
power supply. Has your group, in using convection-cooled
external HDs, ever run into a cooling problem with HDs
in external cases or decreased HD lifetime due to high
operating temperatures?

*TimDaniels*

 

[Odie]

That takes care of that end but this also presents a new problem.

Although the eSATA port is stronger and the cable can be longer what about
the harddrive itself?
Will we see harddrives now that are specifically designed for eSATA use?

Of course we will, Folkert.

Inasmuch as Maxtor introduced their "enterprise" series of Maxline III
drives, so others will be jumping on the bandwagon of a "robust" drive
that is merely an identical clone of the rest of the junk in the series,
with a few funny characters added at the end of the model number to say
"this is an enterprise drive that will last at least 35 years."


Odie

 

[Arno Wagner]

Inasmuch as Maxtor introduced their "enterprise" series of Maxline III
drives, so others will be jumping on the bandwagon of a "robust" drive
that is merely an identical clone of the rest of the junk in the series,
with a few funny characters added at the end of the model number to say
"this is an enterprise drive that will last at least 35 years."

Don't forget that it will cost more. And maybe there will even
be a ''RAID'' version....

It is really surprising that the market for truly reliable storage is
so small. Personally I think only MOD and professional tape qualifies,
and the later is not for the average user.

Arno

 

[Anna]

As you know, I'm a fan of removable HD trays, and I
see them and external SATA HDs as a boon to whole-
HD backups and archiving for multi-media file collections.
One problem, though, may be cooling for the external HDs.
There have been continuing complaints aired in the NG
about failing Maxtor OneTouch external USB HDs, and a
possible reason may be its lack of forced air cooling
(i.e. no fan). Other external HD enclosures provide power
for both the HD and a fan with an external "wall wart"
power supply. Has your group, in using convection-cooled
external HDs, ever run into a cooling problem with HDs
in external cases or decreased HD lifetime due to high
operating temperatures?

*TimDaniels*

Tim:
Over the five years or so that we've been involved with removable hard
drives in their mobile racks, we've encountered very few heat-related
problems with these devices. At least few that we could trace to that
specific problem. And we've worked with scores of different makes & models
of these mobile racks ranging from all-plastic to all-aluminum ones.

Our experience with USB/Firewire external hard drives hasn't been quite as
good. We've encountered a bit more heat-related problems with these devices.
But really, nothing too terrible. Many of these problems could be traced to
the fact that when the user shuts down the machine, he or she forgets to
power off the external PS of the USBEHD. As a consequence, the device may
run for days on end (sometimes longer) and heat-related stress may take its
toll.
Anna

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Our experience with USB/Firewire external hard drives
hasn't been quite as good. We've encountered a bit more
heat-related problems with these devices. But really,
nothing too terrible. Many of these problems could be
traced to the fact that when the user shuts down the
machine, he or she forgets to power off the external PS
of the USBEHD. As a consequence, the device may run
for days on end (sometimes longer) and heat-related
stress may take its toll.
Anna

I take this to mean that you use only self-powered
external enclosures for USB/Firewire HDs. Did the
ones that had heat problems have a fan that ran
whenever the power was ON? Or was there no fan?
Or did the fan turn off when the PC shutdown? I'm
trying to gauge how important a fan is for external HD
longevity.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Inasmuch as Maxtor introduced their "enterprise" series of Maxline III
drives, [snip]

Don't forget that it will cost more.

And maybe there will even be a ''RAID'' version....

External RAID cabinets do not need eSATA drives, babble mouth.
Single and multi drive cabinets do.
Unless they use a port multiplier/concentrator or use (an) eSATA
to SATA convertor(s), then standard SATA will do.

[snip]

Arno