"Best" IDE Configuration?

[Lordy]

Current Setup

OS Windows XP + Mandrake 10.1

IDE Controller 1:
Primary: 80G Seagate ATA 100
Slave: 80G Seagate ATA 100

IDE Controller 2:
Primary: DVD Writer: NEC 2510 ATA 33
Slave: DVD Rom/CD Writer Combo Liteon ATA 33

I want to improve on the fly copying. If I put a HD on the same cable as
the DVD-R would this significantly affect HD->DVDR when they are on the
same controller? Can XP (and Mandrake) keep the HD at UDMA 5 and deliver
ample throughput to the DVD Writer?

 

[Lordy]

Current Setup

OS Windows XP + Mandrake 10.1

IDE Controller 1:
Primary: 80G Seagate ATA 100
Slave: 80G Seagate ATA 100

IDE Controller 2:
Primary: DVD Writer: NEC 2510 ATA 33
Slave: DVD Rom/CD Writer Combo Liteon ATA 33

I want to improve on the fly copying. If I put a HD on the same cable as
the DVD-R would this significantly affect HD->DVDR when they are on the
same controller? Can XP (and Mandrake) keep the HD at UDMA 5 and deliver
ample throughput to the DVD Writer?

Forgot to mention - I dont want to use another IDE controller.

 

[Tj]

Separate the hard drives, it would be fine. That burns on different ide
channels works best for coping on the fly. I find copies work best if I copy
them to hard drive first, esp. if they have copy protection.

 

[Shep©]

Current Setup

OS Windows XP + Mandrake 10.1

IDE Controller 1:
Primary: 80G Seagate ATA 100
Slave: 80G Seagate ATA 100

IDE Controller 2:
Primary: DVD Writer: NEC 2510 ATA 33
Slave: DVD Rom/CD Writer Combo Liteon ATA 33

I want to improve on the fly copying. If I put a HD on the same cable as
the DVD-R would this significantly affect HD->DVDR when they are on the
same controller? Can XP (and Mandrake) keep the HD at UDMA 5 and deliver
ample throughput to the DVD Writer?

Constantly misunderstood relationships of IDE controllers and
incorrect but normal build configurations by PC builders have caused
this situation.

When OEM builders or even Commercial PC builders put PCs together 99%
of the time they stick the CD/CDR/DVD drives on the same IDE
port/cable merely for convenience of build.

This is,"NOT" the optimal configuration for most people especially
these days.

If you are doing a lot of,"On-The-Fly" recordings,copying then you
want the CD/DVD drives on separate IDE ports.
My setup.

IDE zero Hard drive Master Standard CD slave.
IDE one Hard drive Master CDR/W drive slave.

On-the Fly recordings are at full speed because both devices
are,"Parents" when burning.
Image files are kept on my Main C drive which is my fastest and burnt
to my CDR/W drive on my 2nd IDE port.Again at the time of burning both
devices are,"Parent" devices.

To understand this this is how IDE chains work.

Single device on an IDE port is a,"Parent" e.g can read and write at
the same time across the data busses.Therefore it has
no,"Wait-States".

As soon as there are two devices on an IDE port they both
become,"Child" devices however they are only,"Child" devices if,"Both"
are being accessed at the same time.

A child device cannot read and write at the same time and
therefore,"Wait-States" occur.This is where the time goes when burning
large files.
One device will read a lump of data and then the other device
will write it but it has to wait until the 1st device has read it
before it can write it.

Now here's the thang(and the common misconception).
Just having two devices on the same IDE port/chain of differing speed
will not slow down the faster device(usually the hard drive) if the
slower device is not being accessed.To all intents and purposes the
device,"Not" being used at that moment is invisible.

All possible hardware configurations have been tried and tested to
support this.
Quick example.

650 meg data CD on-the-fly burn with CD and CDR on same IDE port/chain
24X around 10+ mins
Same file CD on IDE zero and CDR/W on IDE one 4 mins.
The reason it's less than half the time is because of other
factors,not just the wait-states but also the separate IDE chains will
also use RAM more efficiently because of (U)DMA)

Note:all drives regularly defragged and all redundant large files
removed from drives to make sure swapfile/pagefiles can do their job.
For win95/98/ME users also click here,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/easy.html


Also of the above assumes that all devices are running in their
correct(U)DMA modes.
To check that your drives are download the small:free
,"Nero-Info-Tool",
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/diag.html

The program does not need to be installed and can even be run from
within the .zip file.Under it's,"Configuration"tab it will give the
correct information about your system's drive modes.
HTH



--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
remove obvious to reply
email (e-mail address removed)
Free original songs to download and,"BURN" :O)
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/nomessiahsmusic.htm

 

[Tj]

I thought I said that!

Constantly misunderstood relationships of IDE controllers and
incorrect but normal build configurations by PC builders have caused
this situation.

When OEM builders or even Commercial PC builders put PCs together 99%
of the time they stick the CD/CDR/DVD drives on the same IDE
port/cable merely for convenience of build.

This is,"NOT" the optimal configuration for most people especially
these days.

If you are doing a lot of,"On-The-Fly" recordings,copying then you
want the CD/DVD drives on separate IDE ports.
My setup.

IDE zero Hard drive Master Standard CD slave.
IDE one Hard drive Master CDR/W drive slave.

On-the Fly recordings are at full speed because both devices
are,"Parents" when burning.
Image files are kept on my Main C drive which is my fastest and burnt
to my CDR/W drive on my 2nd IDE port.Again at the time of burning both
devices are,"Parent" devices.

To understand this this is how IDE chains work.

Single device on an IDE port is a,"Parent" e.g can read and write at
the same time across the data busses.Therefore it has
no,"Wait-States".

As soon as there are two devices on an IDE port they both
become,"Child" devices however they are only,"Child" devices if,"Both"
are being accessed at the same time.

A child device cannot read and write at the same time and
therefore,"Wait-States" occur.This is where the time goes when burning
large files.
One device will read a lump of data and then the other device
will write it but it has to wait until the 1st device has read it
before it can write it.

Now here's the thang(and the common misconception).
Just having two devices on the same IDE port/chain of differing speed
will not slow down the faster device(usually the hard drive) if the
slower device is not being accessed.To all intents and purposes the
device,"Not" being used at that moment is invisible.

All possible hardware configurations have been tried and tested to
support this.
Quick example.

650 meg data CD on-the-fly burn with CD and CDR on same IDE port/chain
24X around 10+ mins
Same file CD on IDE zero and CDR/W on IDE one 4 mins.
The reason it's less than half the time is because of other
factors,not just the wait-states but also the separate IDE chains will
also use RAM more efficiently because of (U)DMA)

Note:all drives regularly defragged and all redundant large files
removed from drives to make sure swapfile/pagefiles can do their job.
For win95/98/ME users also click here,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/easy.html


Also of the above assumes that all devices are running in their
correct(U)DMA modes.
To check that your drives are download the small:free
,"Nero-Info-Tool",
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/diag.html

The program does not need to be installed and can even be run from
within the .zip file.Under it's,"Configuration"tab it will give the
correct information about your system's drive modes.
HTH



--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
remove obvious to reply
email (e-mail address removed)
Free original songs to download and,"BURN" :O)
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/nomessiahsmusic.htm

 

[Peter]

All possible hardware configurations have been tried and tested to
support this.
Quick example.

650 meg data CD on-the-fly burn with CD and CDR on same IDE port/chain
24X around 10+ mins

Then there's something else wrong with your system. I have both my DVD
and 24 speed CD burner on the same IDE and can burn 650Mb data cd on-
the-fly in less than 4 minutes at 20x. I have never had a problem with
coasters and it never has taken anything like the length of time you
suggest in over 100 burns. This is using CloneCd V4.0.1.0 on a win98SE
system.

Same file CD on IDE zero and CDR/W on IDE one 4 mins.
The reason it's less than half the time is because of other
factors,not just the wait-states but also the separate IDE chains will
also use RAM more efficiently because of (U)DMA)

<snip>

 

[Lordy]

Current Setup

OS Windows XP + Mandrake 10.1

IDE Controller 1:
Primary: 80G Seagate ATA 100
Slave: 80G Seagate ATA 100

IDE Controller 2:
Primary: DVD Writer: NEC 2510 ATA 33
Slave: DVD Rom/CD Writer Combo Liteon ATA 33

I want to improve on the fly copying. If I put a HD on the same cable
as the DVD-R would this significantly affect HD->DVDR when they are on
the same controller? Can XP (and Mandrake) keep the HD at UDMA 5 and
deliver ample throughput to the DVD Writer?

Constantly misunderstood relationships of IDE controllers and
incorrect but normal build configurations by PC builders have caused
this situation.

[snip]

Thanks but all I really want to know is Can I still get 8speed burns
from HD to DVD-Writer on the same cable without Burnproof kicking in.
Ive got an NForce2 ABIT mobo if it helps.

If not I'd rather keep the current configuration because on-the-fly from
CD to DVDR works OK at 4speed, (Would be nice to have it at 8speed but
not at the expense of HD to DVDR)

Lordy

 

[Shep©]

Current Setup

OS Windows XP + Mandrake 10.1

IDE Controller 1:
Primary: 80G Seagate ATA 100
Slave: 80G Seagate ATA 100

IDE Controller 2:
Primary: DVD Writer: NEC 2510 ATA 33
Slave: DVD Rom/CD Writer Combo Liteon ATA 33

I want to improve on the fly copying. If I put a HD on the same cable
as the DVD-R would this significantly affect HD->DVDR when they are on
the same controller? Can XP (and Mandrake) keep the HD at UDMA 5 and
deliver ample throughput to the DVD Writer?

Constantly misunderstood relationships of IDE controllers and
incorrect but normal build configurations by PC builders have caused
this situation.

[snip]

Thanks but all I really want to know is Can I still get 8speed burns
from HD to DVD-Writer on the same cable without Burnproof kicking in.
Ive got an NForce2 ABIT mobo if it helps.

If not I'd rather keep the current configuration because on-the-fly from
CD to DVDR works OK at 4speed, (Would be nice to have it at 8speed but
not at the expense of HD to DVDR)

Lordy

On some drives and software you can disable the,"Burn-Proof".You will
have to look through your burning program/procces.In Nero I think it's
an option as you go through the burning procedure but before it starts
the burn.



--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
remove obvious to reply
email (e-mail address removed)
Free original songs to download and,"BURN" :O)
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/nomessiahsmusic.htm

 

[Lordy]

On some drives and software you can disable the,"Burn-Proof".You will
have to look through your burning program/procces.In Nero I think it's
an option as you go through the burning procedure but before it starts
the burn.

I dont want to disable it. My question is regarding throughput and speed
not burnproof. I just want to ensure that 8x throughput can be maintained
when burning from HD to DVD on the same cable. Anyone?

 

[Shep©]

I dont want to disable it. My question is regarding throughput and speed
not burnproof. I just want to ensure that 8x throughput can be maintained
when burning from HD to DVD on the same cable. Anyone?

I don't think there's a definitive answer as all hardware configs are
different.The only way to be sure is to do what I have done over the
years and test the hardware configs e.g move things around and bench
test the drives until you find the best one for your usage and to make
sure you get the best thruput checking that the DMA is ok each time.





--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
remove obvious to reply
email (e-mail address removed)
Free original songs to download and,"BURN" :O)
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/nomessiahsmusic.htm