Ballmer Robbie Robbie Bach answers about backwards compatibility

G

Guest

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000597043723/


Q: Regarding backwards compatibility, it seems like that's going to be on a
kind of a selective basis from what we gather-is that correct?

A: We are working very hard to get compatibility. Of course the
prioritization in our technical work is in the leading selling games from
the first generation, just like the PS2 didn't run all PS1 games, it is
unlikely we'll ever be able to say the 360 will run all Xbox 1 games. I
think there are some games if we get them to run that means many, many other
games will run, and I think rather than give some statement that is either
too conservative (because the engineers can do better), or a bold statement
we can't live up to, we thought we'd make our strategy clear that as we get
further down the road and as our engineers do more work, the execution will
speak for itself.

Q: And there's also the possibility of patching over Live to allow for more
games down the road-is that something that's being looked at?

A: Robbie Bach, Chief Xbox Officer: Sure, there's a number of different ways
you can distribute the capability. The thing you have to recognize is we got
to a point at E3 that we said look, there's so much speculation about this
even though the work is ongoing, we should just deal with it and get people
focused on the right thing rather than on the wrong thing. We wanted people
knowing we're doing the work, but you don't want to say we're going to do
every single game, because we don't know that to be a fact today.

A: Ballmer: We've actually dealt with this issue more than any other company
in the world (with every Windows release). The truth of the matter is we run
a high percentage of apps, and every Windows release we hear about the apps
that don't run. But because there are fewer console releases than there are
Windows releases, it's even more of a front and center question. But I think
we have a pretty good sense of how to do this. Live gives us another asset
to go after this, of course-we have a strong Live base, but it's still only
a few million people at this stage, it's not all of our installed base, so
we can't count on it as the only mechanism to try to get the strongest
backward compatibility possible.

Q: Will backwards compatibility be determined on sales if you proceed with
the plan as you have? Will it just be the best-selling platinum hits?

A: I'd say it a little differently. I'd say what we will do is pick a set of
titles and do all the technical work to get those to work. The truth is when
you do some of those titles, you do get dozens to hundreds of other titles
because you take any game that pushes the system and exercises it. If you
can make backward compatibility happen for it, you'd handle any game that
has a subset of what it does. So it's wrong to say it's about individual
games, it's right to say we're going to prioritize the general purpose
technologies based upon that which is in that league of games.

A: Bach: The other thing you can say is you can assume Halo and Halo 2 are
fairly close to the top of the list. [laughter] for both the reasons Steve
states. Because they're top selling games and they're some of the most
technically complicated games.

Ballmer: ...so if you get those two, you'll get a lot of other stuff.
 
T

The Posting One

LoZ said:

This flies in the face of recent revelations that the technique
Microsoft is using is not emulation, but rather recompiling of games to
be native Xbox 360 executables. This means if they only port Halo and
Halo 2 (and all indications point to those being the ONLY games being
considered for backwards compatibility), then no other game gets any
benefits, because they all have to be recompiled.

http://www.infomaticsonline.co.uk/vnunet/news/2135328/xbox-360-compatible-current-games
 
C

Chris H.

That's incorrect. If they "port" specific "formats" of games, everything
with that type "formatting" would be playable.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone -
 
T

Tommy Stenberg

just like the PS2 didn't run all PS1 games, it is
unlikely we'll ever be able to say the 360 will run all Xbox 1 games.

I think this statement was unnecessary. The PS2 runs 99,99% of the PSone
games available, only a random obscure game doesn't work. If you have 4000
PSone games in your collection, you can be sure that at least 3990 of them
is 100% compatible.

The Xbox360 seems to be 30% backwards compatible or less, by the sounds of
it. The PS2 had close to 100%, only 0,001% failrate.

Yeah, these numbers are my own, don't count of them being very accurate.

Tommy
 
T

The Posting One

Chris said:
That's incorrect. If they "port" specific "formats" of games, everything
with that type "formatting" would be playable.

You obviously have no clue how computers work. When you "port" a
program, all you are doing it making that ONE specific executable run
under a different platform. That was "ports" are. "Emulation" on the
other hand (you like this quoting thing don't you?), is when you create
a program that takes machine code meant for a different platform and
behind the scenes translate it to machine code for the current platform.
This process is very slow, but the theory was that Xbox 360 was so fast,
that the emulation penalty would knock you back to Xbox speeds anyway.
When you "port" however, you have essentially created a new executable
native to the current platform. THIS NATIVE CODE CANNOT APPLY TO OTHER
GAMES UNLESS YOU DO RECOMPILE THEM AS WELL. That is the price for
porting. I hope this lesson was of value to you, and you should avoid
talking about things you have no understanding of.
 
C

Chris H.

I suggest you read the information directly from Microsoft. I've posted
numerous links to interviews and even videos from the Xbox Team itself.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone -
 
F

Fik

Tommy Stenberg said:
just like the PS2 didn't run all PS1 games, it is

I think this statement was unnecessary.


Ermm... why - Its a fact isn't it ?

The PS2 runs 99,99% of the PSone games available, only a random obscure
game doesn't work. If you have 4000 PSone games in your collection, you
can be sure that at least 3990 of them is 100% compatible.


If 3990 out of 4000 of them are compatible then 99.75% of them are
compatible.

You can't choose to disregard the 10 that don't work and leave them out of
your stats !

The Xbox360 seems to be 30% backwards compatible or less, by the sounds of
it. The PS2 had close to 100%, only 0,001% failrate.


FFS the Xbox 360 isn't ANYTHING yet - its not in the shops, MS are still
working on it.

Yeah, these numbers are my own, don't count of them being very accurate.


Obviously.
 
T

Tommy Stenberg

Fik said:
Ermm... why - Its a fact isn't it ?




If 3990 out of 4000 of them are compatible then 99.75% of them are
compatible.

You can't choose to disregard the 10 that don't work and leave them out of
your stats !




FFS the Xbox 360 isn't ANYTHING yet - its not in the shops, MS are still
working on it.




Obviously.

You didn't quite get it, did you? He compared the backwards compatibility
issue from the Xbox 360 with the PS2, which is plain wrong. They're not
comparable. They've said "biggest titles will be backwards compatible". The
PS2 is basically 100% compatible.

Anyway, no need to get so fekking wound up, I was just a bit baffled by that
seemingly incorrect statement. From the sounds of what the Xbox 360 *might*
be, that statement just seemed incomparable. There's a huge difference
between SOME games being compatible and JUST ABOUT EVERY GAME being
compatible.

Finally, let me say that I'm really looking forward to the Xbox 360, but it
seems to me that I shouldn't get rid of my old Xbox just yet if I want to
keep playing some of my favourite games. I wonder if Galleon will be
compatible, that's one of my favourite Xbox games. I'm no FPS fan either, so
Halo doesn't interest me. What about Shenmue 2? There's a lot of "stinkers"
out there, if you only look at the number of sales. I hope the X360 will
have a decent backwards compatibility rate, but I remain sceptical as of
yet.

Tommy
 
D

Doug Jacobs

In alt.games.video.xbox The Posting One said:
This flies in the face of recent revelations that the technique
Microsoft is using is not emulation, but rather recompiling of games to
be native Xbox 360 executables. This means if they only port Halo and
Halo 2 (and all indications point to those being the ONLY games being
considered for backwards compatibility), then no other game gets any
benefits, because they all have to be recompiled.

Huh?

Recompiling a program for a new platform is *NOT* backwards
compatibility. That means that the only way to play "Xbox" games on the
360 is to *buy* a new product, since your existing version won't work.

And while it's true that the PS2 isn't able to play every PS1 game, this
affects less than a dozen or so PS1 games. Not bad, considering the size
of the PS1's library. And you didn't have to buy special PS2-compiled
versions either.
 
D

Doug Jacobs

In alt.games.video.xbox Chris H. said:
I suggest you read the information directly from Microsoft. I've posted
numerous links to interviews and even videos from the Xbox Team itself.

The Engadget article would seem to indicate they are indeed working on
*emulation* - not *recompilation*.

Emulation is where you recreate a piece of hardware - the Xbox, in this
case - in software. They are correct that once you get one game working,
it's quite possible that other games will also work. Considering that
Halo and Halo2 are among the top selling games for the Xbox, it only makes
sense that they'd concentrate their emulation efforts around these titles
initially.

However, software emulation isn't easy to achieve, and it requires quite a
bit of processing power to pull off well. It's possible that they may get
a set of titles working, but it won't be the same as running the game on
native hardware. BTW, the PS2 does use native PS1 hardware, which is why
it's able to play almost all of the PS1's library while requiring very
little software work on the part of Sony.

It's also easy to deduce they haven't made much progress in this area yet,
since they've made no hard commitments about which - if any - games will
work on the Xbox360.

So for those of you waiting on the backwards compatibility issue, I'd say
buy a Xbox now, and a Xbox360 next year when it's dropped in price. In
the meantime, enjoy the cheap games.
 
D

Doug Jacobs

In alt.games.video.xbox Tommy Stenberg said:
just like the PS2 didn't run all PS1 games, it is
I think this statement was unnecessary. The PS2 runs 99,99% of the PSone
games available, only a random obscure game doesn't work. If you have 4000
PSone games in your collection, you can be sure that at least 3990 of them
is 100% compatible.

You have to remember Ballmer doesn't like the PS2, so any chance he can
get diss it (or Sony) he does.

You'll also notice he repeats his statement that because iPod users are using
MP3s without DRM, they must be illegitimate (ie. "stolen.") I don't know
about you, but I certainly find it extremely distasteful to have the CEO of
one of the world's largest companies calling its customers criminals. I
would have thought that Bill, or at least Microsoft's PR folks, would have
taken Ballmer into a small room so they could explain via a series of
bitch-slaps why it's bad business to diss the customer like that.
 
A

Andrew Ryan Chang

Doug Jacobs said:
You'll also notice he repeats his statement that because iPod users are using
MP3s without DRM, they must be illegitimate (ie. "stolen.") I don't know
about you, but I certainly find it extremely distasteful to have the CEO of
one of the world's largest companies calling its customers criminals. I

You're reaching like crazy.
 
D

Dog Bowl

You obviously have no clue how computers work. When you "port" a
program, all you are doing it making that ONE specific executable run
under a different platform. That was "ports" are. "Emulation" on the
other hand (you like this quoting thing don't you?), is when you create
a program that takes machine code meant for a different platform and
behind the scenes translate it to machine code for the current platform.
This process is very slow, but the theory was that Xbox 360 was so fast,
that the emulation penalty would knock you back to Xbox speeds anyway.
When you "port" however, you have essentially created a new executable
native to the current platform. THIS NATIVE CODE CANNOT APPLY TO OTHER
GAMES UNLESS YOU DO RECOMPILE THEM AS WELL. That is the price for
porting. I hope this lesson was of value to you, and you should avoid
talking about things you have no understanding of.

Ding. That the duck that someone understands :)

Now there is the also fooking obvious thing - If MS had managed to get a
decent emulator working it would be *big* friggin news, rather than
"they have come to an agreement with Nvidia". MS are fooking press
release and media whores of the highest order and would milk it for
every possible ounce. Look how much they played up "Oh look you can now
have a file name longer than 8.3" in windows even though it didn't
always work at first.
 

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