AMD - way to go?

[Jason Backshall]

Probably the wrong place to be asking for an unbiased answer, I'll give it a
go anyway.

In the past, I've always been an Intel fan. Can't quite put my finger on the
reason why, however they've just always 'felt' faster. I did make the move
to an Athlon 1700+ at one stage and enjoyed it thoroughlly, although made
the move after back to an Intel P4 2.8c.

I'm looking to make the move back, probably to an Athlon 64 x2 of some
description. While speed is important, stability is of upmost importance -
are the current AMD CPUs on the market stable, with OEM cooling? That is,
can I expect a stable (and cool!) system, without having to shell out
AUD$100 on an aftermarket cooler?

Thanks for your assistance - greatly appreciated!

Jas.

 

[gringo]

google

 

[Jason Backshall]

If that was the answer for everything, Usenet would be made redundant.

I'm looking for users experiences, for those who have had the benefit of
using both platforms.

J.

 

[Peter van der Goes]

I'm looking to make the move back, probably to an Athlon 64 x2 of some
description. While speed is important, stability is of upmost importance -
are the current AMD CPUs on the market stable, with OEM cooling? That is,
can I expect a stable (and cool!) system, without having to shell out
AUD$100 on an aftermarket cooler?

Thanks for your assistance - greatly appreciated!

Jas.

I'll assume you understand that a well-ventilated case with good airflow is
essential.
The 90 nm A64 CPU's run nice and cool. No expensive extra hardware needed.
I'm running an A64 3200+ (Winchester core) at 2.5 GHz with the retail HSF.
Room 24C, Case 26C, CPU 34 - 41C (max).

 

[Jason Backshall]

I'll assume you understand that a well-ventilated case with good airflow is
essential.
The 90 nm A64 CPU's run nice and cool. No expensive extra hardware needed.
I'm running an A64 3200+ (Winchester core) at 2.5 GHz with the retail HSF.
Room 24C, Case 26C, CPU 34 - 41C (max).

Thanks Peter - greatly appreciated

Stable, is it?

J.

 

[Wes Newell]

I'm looking to make the move back, probably to an Athlon 64 x2 of some
description. While speed is important, stability is of upmost importance -
are the current AMD CPUs on the market stable, with OEM cooling? That is,
can I expect a stable (and cool!) system, without having to shell out
AUD$100 on an aftermarket cooler?

System instability is hardly ever caused by an unstable CPU (Intel may be
an exception).

I suggest you go to tom's hardware for a direct stabilty stress test
comparison between the AMD X2 and the Intel Pentium D dual cores. If that
doesn't make up your mind, nothing anyone says here will.

 

[joe]

Probably the wrong place to be asking for an unbiased answer, I'll give it a
go anyway.

In the past, I've always been an Intel fan. Can't quite put my finger on the
reason why, however they've just always 'felt' faster. I did make the move
to an Athlon 1700+ at one stage and enjoyed it thoroughlly, although made
the move after back to an Intel P4 2.8c.

I'm looking to make the move back, probably to an Athlon 64 x2 of some
description. While speed is important, stability is of upmost importance -
are the current AMD CPUs on the market stable, with OEM cooling? That is,
can I expect a stable (and cool!) system, without having to shell out
AUD$100 on an aftermarket cooler?

Thanks for your assistance - greatly appreciated!

Jas.

There are a lot of things you have to be aware of if stability is your
priority. Here's what I did:

Buy a good motherboard. Look for a forum (possibly even on the
manufacturer's website) and read about what sorts of trouble users have
had with the board you intend to buy. Do this research BEFORE you buy.

Buy an expensive power supply. It is going to have to be big. 500W is
not crazy. You need to look at the max current for each of the rails.
These are listed on a sticker on the side of the power supply (and
possibly on the outside of the box). The motherboard manufacturer can
tell you what the minimums are for the board you have chosen. It may
also be found in the aforementioned forum.

Buy expensive RAM. This should be from a reputable manufacturer. Cheap
RAM can cause a lot of strange stability issues. If you are building a
dual-channel system, buy a matched pair of RAM sticks. If you think you
may want to increase the amount of RAM some day, consider buying four
matched sticks and put two of them in another computer for the time
being. They should come with heat spreaders on them to help keep them
cool. Good RAM will work well in a cheap motherboard, but cheap RAM
might not work even in an expensive motherboard. Most motherboard
manufacturers list RAM by model number that have been tested to work
with their board.

Make sure your case has good cooling. Heat is a major source of
instability in computers. Mine has three 80mm fans (not counting the
fan in the power supply) and room for two more.

Get round cables for all your devices. Wide ribbon cables for PATA
devices restrict airflow which leads to heat problems which leads to
instability. SATA devices use narrow cables, but some people have
difficulties with the new SATA hardware (mostly on the motherboard end).
If it's stability you're after, go with PATA (with round cables)
unless you're sure your board and drive will play nicely together.

Get an AMD processor. The Intel chips run at huge frequencies these
days and consequently get very hot. This just amplifies the heat
related issues mentioned above. Intel has even decided to come out with
a new motherboard and case format just to help cope with the intense
heat their chips produce. With current boards and cases, you'll have an
easier time keeping things cool if you go with AMD.

Stock AMD coolers are often all you need if you have a good case with
good cable routing. I've seen some coolers designed for Intel chips
that weigh several pounds and have multiple fans. Imagine all the noise.

Building a cool and stable system costs a lot more than $100, but it can
pay for itself in performance and reliability. It is often better to
start with good components than to have to try to fix mysterious
problems in the future. You can build a stable computer on the cheap,
but it is sort of a gamble. It is so easy for things to go wrong when
you start with cheap parts.

Besides, every bit of this can be paid for buy simply buying last year's
hottest video card instead of this year's. You'd save hundreds that can
probably be spent better elsewhere. It will pay off by producing a
system that will be rock solid for years.

I deliberately bought a motherboard that supports the hottest new chips,
and then stuck the cheapest (slowest) chip on it. When the X2's and
FX's come down in price, I'll be able to drop in a big performance
increase for only a couple hundred bucks... thus extending the life of
the entire computer by years.

Aside from stability, all I care about is a decent frame rate in Doom 3.
I've got both and it didn't cost me an arm and a leg.

 

[Peter van der Goes]

Thanks Peter - greatly appreciated

Stable, is it?

J.

Well, it's my primary home office computer where I evaluate student work
(computer science courses). You might say I bet my job on it.

 

[John Whitworth]

Jason Backshall wrote:

There are a lot of things you have to be aware of if stability is your
priority. Here's what I did:

You'll put the bloke off!

Buy a good motherboard. Look for a forum (possibly even on the
manufacturer's website) and read about what sorts of trouble users have
had with the board you intend to buy. Do this research BEFORE you buy.

Agreed - the mobo is 90% of the system - so it needs to be good!

Buy an expensive power supply. It is going to have to be big. 500W is
not crazy. You need to look at the max current for each of the rails.
These are listed on a sticker on the side of the power supply (and
possibly on the outside of the box). The motherboard manufacturer can
tell you what the minimums are for the board you have chosen. It may
also be found in the aforementioned forum.

Expensive - no. 500W - yes. Most of the expense of the power supply
tends to go into the noise rating.

Buy expensive RAM. This should be from a reputable manufacturer. Cheap
RAM can cause a lot of strange stability issues. If you are building a
dual-channel system, buy a matched pair of RAM sticks. If you think you
may want to increase the amount of RAM some day, consider buying four
matched sticks and put two of them in another computer for the time
being. They should come with heat spreaders on them to help keep them
cool. Good RAM will work well in a cheap motherboard, but cheap RAM
might not work even in an expensive motherboard. Most motherboard
manufacturers list RAM by model number that have been tested to work
with their board.

Expensive - no. Reputable - yes. Crucial RAM will do just fine.

Make sure your case has good cooling. Heat is a major source of
instability in computers. Mine has three 80mm fans (not counting the
fan in the power supply) and room for two more.
Agreed.

Get round cables for all your devices. Wide ribbon cables for PATA
devices restrict airflow which leads to heat problems which leads to
instability. SATA devices use narrow cables, but some people have
difficulties with the new SATA hardware (mostly on the motherboard end).
If it's stability you're after, go with PATA (with round cables) unless
you're sure your board and drive will play nicely together.

I have round cables, and to be honest, I don't see a huge temperature
difference. They look better though.

Get an AMD processor. The Intel chips run at huge frequencies these
days and consequently get very hot. This just amplifies the heat
related issues mentioned above. Intel has even decided to come out with
a new motherboard and case format just to help cope with the intense
heat their chips produce. With current boards and cases, you'll have an
easier time keeping things cool if you go with AMD.

AMD really does seem to be ahead of the game now. I have been an AMD
junkie for some time, and my current 'pride' of owning a better system
was only experienced before when the first Athlons came out.

Stock AMD coolers are often all you need if you have a good case with
good cable routing. I've seen some coolers designed for Intel chips
that weigh several pounds and have multiple fans. Imagine all the noise.

Agreed that stock AMD coolers are all most people require. But disagree
that only Intel coolers can weigh several pounds and have several fans.
I have had horrendously noisy AMD-compatible fans.

Building a cool and stable system costs a lot more than $100, but it can
pay for itself in performance and reliability. It is often better to
start with good components than to have to try to fix mysterious
problems in the future. You can build a stable computer on the cheap,
but it is sort of a gamble. It is so easy for things to go wrong when
you start with cheap parts.

Not everything needs to be expensive. The classic on here is the
'expensive' power supply. Utter cr*p! You need to make sure it's got the
oomph you require, but as for the stability, if a power supply is rated
at a particular capacity, then it will produce it. People forget that
for the most part, only people with problems report this on Usenet. Thus
all those people with 'cheap' PSUs come on and moan about them. The vast
majority with 'cheap' PSUs are happily using their machine.

Besides, every bit of this can be paid for buy simply buying last year's
hottest video card instead of this year's. You'd save hundreds that can
probably be spent better elsewhere. It will pay off by producing a
system that will be rock solid for years.

Very true. That's what I did.

I deliberately bought a motherboard that supports the hottest new chips,
and then stuck the cheapest (slowest) chip on it. When the X2's and
FX's come down in price, I'll be able to drop in a big performance
increase for only a couple hundred bucks... thus extending the life of
the entire computer by years.

Yes - get the best mobo you can!

 

[LBJGH]

Jas, I just went to a X2 4200+ overclocked to 2.6ghz. 100% and very fast.
I love the dual core, sort of like hyperthreading but better.

 

[The Primate]

Well said. I am so sick of that response. A great deal of current info can
be gleamed from asking current users about a problem. Like you say usenet
would close down if everyone went to google.

 

[KnightCrawler]

My recommendations:

1. Asus A8N-E <--- solid board from a top rated company and well tested
and reviewed
1. Nforce 4 chipset <--- stay away from via and SIS chipset
2. Corsair or OCZ DDR memory that is "tested compatible" with the
motherboard <--- important
3. Athlon X2 now if you have that kind of money or wait til the prices
fall some more and slap in a 3200
4. Antec or Enermax PSU.....Starts about $60 for a decent PSU with
plenty of amps on the 12v rail
5. Good 7200 hard drive maybe a seagate with a 5 year warranty.

Stability = It runs all day and sometimes all night, burns cd's and
dvd's and what else you want to do.

I recommend Newegg.com for most of your purchases.

 

[Wes Newell]

Well said. I am so sick of that response. A great deal of current info can
be gleamed from asking current users about a problem. Like you say usenet
would close down if everyone went to google.

That's just BS. If one hasn't tried to search for the answer to their
problem prior to posting it here then they are just lazy. I've seen the
same question asked so many times it makes me sick. Now once you've
spent 5 minutes searching for an answer and can't find it, post it in the
NG's. I created the info on my website just because I got tired of seeing
the same question every day and some times the same question many times in
the same day. I answered the same question so many times I got tired of
it.

 

[John Weiss]

That is,
can I expect a stable (and cool!) system, without having to shell out
AUD$100 on an aftermarket cooler?

Been running a dual Opteron 246 with stock cooling 24/7 for a year now. No
problems.

 

[Carlo Razzeto]

You don't really need "Expensive" equipment as much as you need
reliable equipment. Sticking to major name brands. While I did buy an
expensive motherboard (Chantech ZNF-3), that was more for the features
than anything else. Other than that the rest of my system is.

400 Watt PS (Antec, but not the most costly)
1GB (Coursiar Value Select)
Antec Copper cooler (only because the AMD stock was noisy, it cooled
just fine though)
I have standard IDE cables
A steal case with decent cooling (and a window I cut in)
The rest escapes me for now, but you certainly don't need to go crazy
spending all kinds of $$$$ on equipment to make your system cool.

 

[joe]

Not everything needs to be expensive. The classic on here is the

'expensive' power supply. Utter cr*p! You need to make sure it's got the
oomph you require, but as for the stability, if a power supply is rated
at a particular capacity, then it will produce it. People forget that
for the most part, only people with problems report this on Usenet. Thus
all those people with 'cheap' PSUs come on and moan about them. The vast
majority with 'cheap' PSUs are happily using their machine.

A cheap power supply may claim to provide the power you need, yet it
might be lying. An inexpensive 400W PSU may claim, for instance, to
provide 20A on the +12V rail. Yet in reality it might only provide a
PEAK of 20A. The sustained current might be lower... possibly so low
that the system will experience stability issues. I have seen this with
my own eyes and have heard others complain about it too. A good PSU
from a reputable manufacturer may list the average currents rather that
the peak ones. Those numbers are smaller, of course, but they are more
important to the system builder.

Buying a PSU from a company you've heard of and that gets good reviews
is not cr*p. Those PSUs tend to be pricier because they are often made
with more expensive components and they are in demand by those in the
know. If you insist on buying a cheap PSU, I'd say the safest thing to
do is to overbuy. In other words, if your system needs a 400W PSU, but
you aren't willing to spend more than $25 to get one, then get a $25
500W supply. It might be stable. Probably. Maybe. I'd rather avoid
the maybes and ifs when it comes to the stability of my machine. A
flaky power supply can cause too many mysterious problems for my liking.
You do whatever you want to do, though.