AfterMarket Inks Unreliability

[Michael Johnson, PE]

<snip>
Anyway, we are getting far afield from printing, but I think much of
this needs to be considered when trying to determine how important to
each of use the permanence of a print may be from a personal historical
perspective. If someone never shows any interest in looking at family
pictures of past generations of their family, then perhaps it doesn't
matter for them or their or relatives, but for those who wish to
maintain a document of their history, prints may still provide the best
transferable method.
<snip>

If I could somehow have 100 gigs of digital photos taken by a family
member that lived 100 years ago I would definitely go through all the
pictures and separate the ones I thought were special, as I think most
people would do. I hope that someone in my family 100 years from now
will do the same.

 

[Michael Johnson, PE]

It is really easy now days to backup to USB hard drives and inexpensive.
As for organizing a lifetimes worth of photos, I wouldn't know where
to begin. If you have 100,000 slides then I don't think I would even
tackle that job. I know I have kept way too many worthless photos but I
can't bring myself to delete them when hard drive space is so cheap.
Pssing them on, as is, might give someone 100 years from now something
to keep themselves busy.

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

Thanks for filling my blanks, Art. I was trying to avoid writing more of
a dissertation than I did.

I own several CD burners and several DVD burners of several vintages and
many media do not read between the drives.

Do you mean that media burned on one burner can't be read on a different
burner?

Never believe the manufacturers' names on the CD or DVD. They are
brokered between numerous sources and excess inventory is bought and
relabeled. Have Memorex CD-Rs made by Fuji, while my Fuji brand disks
are made by yet another company.

Indeed: I have four batches of Fuji disks made by four different
manufacturers; none of them were made by Fuji! And Fuji is a media
manufacturer. Makes my head spin. And brand names don't mean quality,
either. The worst branded disks I've got are Sony CDRs, actually made by
Sony.

I'm buying my blanks in bulk now, never retail packed. This way, I know
what I'm getting -- at least, assuming they're not fakes. But the "Taiyo
Yuden" blanks do have the right cloudy appearance in the center.

Richard

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Thanks for filling my blanks, Art. I was trying to avoid writing more of
a dissertation than I did.



Do you mean that media burned on one burner can't be read on a different
burner?

Yes, exactly. They read fine on the burner that created them, but in
some cases, will not even be recognized by the others. In particular,
disks burned on older and slower burners seem to not be recognized by
the newer burners, and I am speaking on CD-R disks, not CD-RW where
major changes were made in the lasers and such between 4x and beyond, in
terms of both media and writing method.

Indeed: I have four batches of Fuji disks made by four different
manufacturers; none of them were made by Fuji! And Fuji is a media
manufacturer. Makes my head spin. And brand names don't mean quality,
either. The worst branded disks I've got are Sony CDRs, actually made by
Sony.

I have a stack of failed Sony CD-Rs - every one of them was from a batch
"made in China". The same exact packaging with "made in Japan" on it
worked fine.

 

[TJ]

Thanks for filling my blanks, Art. I was trying to avoid writing more of
a dissertation than I did.



Do you mean that media burned on one burner can't be read on a different
burner?


Indeed: I have four batches of Fuji disks made by four different
manufacturers; none of them were made by Fuji! And Fuji is a media
manufacturer. Makes my head spin. And brand names don't mean quality,
either. The worst branded disks I've got are Sony CDRs, actually made by
Sony.

I'm buying my blanks in bulk now, never retail packed. This way, I know
what I'm getting -- at least, assuming they're not fakes. But the "Taiyo
Yuden" blanks do have the right cloudy appearance in the center.

Richard

Then how is one to get the proper OEM burner/media combination? I mean,
they ARE designed to work together as a system, right? You wouldn't want
all that clogging and fading that goes with using relabeled media in
your name-brand burner. It's been particularly troublesome for me, as
the manufacturer of the last CD burner I bought, a rebate deal from
CompUSA, doesn't even MAKE CD media. I've used Philips and Memorex so
far without problems, but I fear it may explode at any minute.

TJ

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

Then how is one to get the proper OEM burner/media combination? I mean,
they ARE designed to work together as a system, right? You wouldn't want
all that clogging and fading that goes with using relabeled media in
your name-brand burner. It's been particularly troublesome for me, as
the manufacturer of the last CD burner I bought, a rebate deal from
CompUSA, doesn't even MAKE CD media. I've used Philips and Memorex so
far without problems, but I fear it may explode at any minute.

Ha ha.

God only knows who Memorex is today -- probably a different company than
they were yesterday. The Memorex of yore (Is it real or is it junk? --
never a trustworthy bunch, in my experience) is long gone. I wouldn't
use their blanks for anything important. I'm not feeling so good about
Philips these days, either. However, I confess that I have used
untrustworthy blanks for very non-critical work myself.

They're never intended to work "as a system" in the manner promoted by
our very own miskeate.

Don't trouble yourself about exploding burners. It's the disks that'll
explode in your hand.

Richard

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

Yes, exactly. They read fine on the burner that created them, but in
some cases, will not even be recognized by the others. In particular,
disks burned on older and slower burners seem to not be recognized by
the newer burners, and I am speaking on CD-R disks, not CD-RW where
major changes were made in the lasers and such between 4x and beyond, in
terms of both media and writing method.

This is what I've been worried about as the prices of the drives have
come down dramatically -- my two Lite-On CD burners are just too cheap,
even if made in China, for me to feel confident in the required
precision. At $300 street price, my 12x 5-year-old Plextor gives me more
confidence.

What you've described sure sounds to me like alignment discrepancies.
I'd expect that the problem would be worse with speed increases, so I'd
have more faith in the older products. And there is a greater need for
precision with the increased track density of the newer disks. For many
uses, I'd actually feel better about using the older, less-dense blanks,
but you can't buy them any more.

In terms of playing your disks on CD readers, which burners produce more
usable disks?

Richard

 

[Carol V.]

TJ wrote:


God only knows who Memorex is today -- probably a different company than
they were yesterday. Richard

Just today I was reading an article by Let's Go Digital on Imation's new
AquaGuard printable discs. They stated that Memorex was made by Imation.

Carol

 

[TJ]

Ha ha.

God only knows who Memorex is today -- probably a different company than
they were yesterday. The Memorex of yore (Is it real or is it junk? --
never a trustworthy bunch, in my experience) is long gone. I wouldn't
use their blanks for anything important. I'm not feeling so good about
Philips these days, either. However, I confess that I have used
untrustworthy blanks for very non-critical work myself.

They're never intended to work "as a system" in the manner promoted by
our very own miskeate.

Don't trouble yourself about exploding burners. It's the disks that'll
explode in your hand.

Richard

Actually, these were a a couple of 50-packs on free-after-rebate deals
from (Deity of your choice, if any)-Knows-Where, one or more of the big
box stores. Both say "Made in Taiwan" on the label, but I don't know if
that pertains to the discs or the labels. All I know is they've worked
so far, and the discs have been readable by my recently-acquired DVD reader.

I'm relieved to hear that the burner won't explode. For safety's sake,
though, I'll be sure to wear welding gloves and eye protection when
handling the discs from now on.

TJ

 

[Arthur Entlich]

;-)

Some CD and DVD manufacturers will provide a list of recommended or
tested brands of disks.

Art

TJ wrote:

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I also have a Plextor (the older one) It's an 8x 4x 32. I don't know
which do best with CD-ROM readers, as I've run out of slots on my
computers for drives and had to remove them to accommodate the DVD and
DV burners.

Art


Richard Steinfeld wrote:

 

[Arthur Entlich]

The Memorex name is now held by a holding company. They are a
rebrander, and there is usually no consistence in which brand or product
is used to place the Memorex name on it.

Sometimes the product is good because the OEM did a good job, and
sometimes it's badly dressed.

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

I also have a Plextor (the older one) It's an 8x 4x 32. I don't know
which do best with CD-ROM readers, as I've run out of slots on my
computers for drives and had to remove them to accommodate the DVD and
DV burners.

Hmmm. That's a problem, all right. I wonder about how feasible it is to
put a nice old burner into a USB housing with an adaptor. I can think of
some reasons why at some times, it might be advantageous to have a
really slow drive. I'll bet that you can too.

I'm discouraged with Plextor. Although their support had been very good
in the past, the phone is at least still answered by people here in the
USA. But they no longer even _know_ that they made my 12/10/42 drive
(probably know even less that they made your older one). So, I say: "Hey
guys--I want an upgrade for XP for your own software that you bundled
with my drive for 9x, especially since the 9x software won't work under
the new OS. And I want it, not for $70, but at your expense." And I get
the audio equivalent of a blank stare: not good at all. The proprietary
backup software that I paid them extra for, which won't run under XP,
has simply vanished -- and that's that. And, like I mentioned earlier,
they won't even talk about how I can clean and lubricate my drive. It's
part of why I, sadly, walked away from the brand. If it's now to be
throw-away merchandise, I can get throw-away merchandise elsewhere, too,
for a lot less money.

But I do regard my new Lite-On burners as, shall we say, "delicate." So,
I use a read-only drive for disk reading, and only use the burner for
burning, just to reduce the wear on it. One computer will continue to
house the Plextor.

Richard

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

The Memorex name is now held by a holding company. They are a
rebrander, and there is usually no consistence in which brand or product
is used to place the Memorex name on it.

Sometimes the product is good because the OEM did a good job, and
sometimes it's badly dressed.

Yup. Last I remembered, it's a Hong Kong brand, registered someplace in
the Carribean. And the president has been brought up on some scandal
charge or other.

But it's just one in a number of instances of fake branding, as with
"RCA" products at Radio Shack and MCM, my "IBM" power strip, "GE"
computer accessories. And herein the fake disk manufacturer who is now
just a distributor (Sony, TDK, Maxell, Fuji [insert name here]). The
parent company of RCA and GE electronic consumer products, Thomson, has
probably gotten so many support calls from people who bought their fake
products that they will no longer answer the phone. Just buy one of
their "legtimate" CD alarm clocks and then try to reach them. Surprise!

I need to be able to rely on knowing the quality of my media. Sometimes
cheap junk is just fine for what I need to do (let's say, a backup that
I won't need after a year). Sometimes, I need to know that it's
impeccable. So, Taiyo-Yuden. But there's at least one other brand that
people have liked a lot, too, and I forget which one it is. Also, people
have liked Mitsubishi Chemical (brand: Verbatim). There's a web site out
there where people have posted a lot of their experiences with disk
brands (I'm drawing a blank -- blank, ha ha.).

I bought a Memorex MP3 player a year ago. The price was very good. I
returned it for one reason: it had no rewind function. None whatsoever.
Jeesh! I'm not a massochist; no more Memorex anything for me. Except
junk disks used as junk.

Oh; I just remembered -- isn't this supposed to be a "printer"
newsgroup? Or is it a "misekite" newsgroup?

Richard

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

;-)

Some CD and DVD manufacturers will provide a list of recommended or
tested brands of disks.

Unfortunately, I don't think that this is true any more. The field is
now a moving target. Five years ago, Plextor did, indeed, publish a good
list for the burner that I bought. In the meantime, the disks have
changed a lot. But their list has remained static. In other words, the
list is no good any more, aside from two entries.

For example, I was very satisfied with Pioneer disks, but they're history.

However, there are certain disk brands that have indeed remained
reliable -- products that are made by the actual manufacturer whose
naame is on the package. I believe that these will be the best with any
drive. They must be sought out carefully.

Richard

 

[Paul Rubin]

Yup. Last I remembered, it's a Hong Kong brand, registered someplace
in the Carribean. And the president has been brought up on some
scandal charge or other.

The HK company has since sold the Memorex brand to Imation.

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/01/19/imation_acquires_memorex/

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Well, Imation will have some heavy lifting to do. They may believe they
bought a recognized name, but for those of us who used their (Memorex's)
products in recent past, that's a reputation to be lived down. I had
more respect for the relatively obscure Imation name than for Memorex

 

[Gary Tait]

I think thy started going downhill in the 1980s, although they made cool
looking mediocre brand tapes. FWIW, at least where I am (rural Canada),
Memorex brand media are only available an The Source CC stores.

I bought a small spindle of Memorex DVD-R a couple weeks ago and have no
problem. They are Ritek F1.

The Maxells I had before are Ritek G05. My CDRs are Also RITEK (Arita
branded).

Fortunately I mostly come across Ritek, and occasionaly Taiyo Yuden
manufactured discs.