9800pro->XT 2D problems

[Knut Nilsen]

I upgraded my Connect3D 9800Pro 128MB to an XT following the
instructions on www.rojakpot.com, tested it thoroughly, everything
worked flawlessly. Until a week or two later, when I suddenly start
getting VPU Reckover errors - not when running 3D apps or games, but
running 'ordinary' programs like iExplorer or MS Word.

I can play games for hours, no problems at all. I have never seen any
errors when running games or 3D apps. But when running normal desktop
apps, I get random VPU Reckover errors. Can't seem to find a pattern -
not related to a special application or action, it can happen just after
boot up or it can happen after 12 hours, it can happen 4 times in a row
one day, another day it may not happen at all.

Anyone seen anything even remotely like this?

System: XP 2400+, ASUS A7V266E, 768MB Ram, Win XP, Catalyst 4.11 drivers.

 

[First of One]

It boggles my mind why people take the risk of flashing the 9800Pro to XT
when the only real difference is clock speed.

 

[Nerdillius Maximus]

I upgraded my Connect3D 9800Pro 128MB to an XT following the
instructions on www.rojakpot.com, tested it thoroughly, everything
worked flawlessly. Until a week or two later, when I suddenly start
getting VPU Reckover errors - not when running 3D apps or games, but
running 'ordinary' programs like iExplorer or MS Word.

I can play games for hours, no problems at all. I have never seen any
errors when running games or 3D apps. But when running normal desktop
apps, I get random VPU Reckover errors. Can't seem to find a pattern -
not related to a special application or action, it can happen just after
boot up or it can happen after 12 hours, it can happen 4 times in a row
one day, another day it may not happen at all.

Anyone seen anything even remotely like this?

Well, ya overclocks things, ya takes yer chances. Perhaps the 2D part of the
chip core doesn't like the extra heat. You may want to remove the
heatsink/fan assembly and make sure there is a good contact patch of thermal
spooge between the base of the heatsink and the VPU core top. Sometimes it
ain't too well-covered. I use Arctic Silver, just enough to fill the very
small gap without getting everywhere else...

But first, you may want to reflash it to the original clocks to make sure
you didn't b0rk something...

 

[Knut Nilsen]

It boggles my mind why people take the risk of flashing the 9800Pro to XT
when the only real difference is clock speed.

Not 100% right. There are feature differences in the Pro and XT; the
original 9800Pro was based on the R350 chip, while the XT is based on
the R360 chip. Newer pro's also have the R360 chip, but their BIOS
firmware 'believes' that they are R350's and treats them as such. So my
9800Pro was actually a 'crippled' XT - with R350 BIOS and less and
cheaper RAM.

When I flashed the 9800Pro to XT, I 'underclocked' it; started running
it at the same clock speed as the Pro, in order not to overheat the RAM.
Still, it had a approx 10-15% performance increase on the benchmarks I
ran, (3Dmark and aquamark), and I could actually measure frame rate
increase in Doom3. Then, as I carefully increased the speed i saw only a
slight performance increase. I now run it at 412 / 338 which is
standard XT speed for the VPU but standard Pro speed for the RAM - the
RAM doesn't overclock well, but I have run the VPU at 466 without
problems. However, varying clock speed has very little impact on the
benchmark results.

My experience very much confirms what they have found at
http://www.rojakpot.com/default.aspx?location=3&var1=92&var2=11

 

[Knut Nilsen]

Well, ya overclocks things, ya takes yer chances. Perhaps the 2D part of the
chip core doesn't like the extra heat. You may want to remove the
heatsink/fan assembly and make sure there is a good contact patch of thermal
spooge between the base of the heatsink and the VPU core top. Sometimes it
ain't too well-covered. I use Arctic Silver, just enough to fill the very
small gap without getting everywhere else...

But first, you may want to reflash it to the original clocks to make sure
you didn't b0rk something...

You're probably right about the heatsink/fan thing. A pity there's no
temperature probe on the Pro...

 

[Conor]

I upgraded my Connect3D 9800Pro 128MB to an XT following the
instructions on www.rojakpot.com, tested it thoroughly, everything
worked flawlessly. Until a week or two later, when I suddenly start
getting VPU Reckover errors - not when running 3D apps or games, but
running 'ordinary' programs like iExplorer or MS Word.

I can play games for hours, no problems at all. I have never seen any
errors when running games or 3D apps. But when running normal desktop
apps, I get random VPU Reckover errors. Can't seem to find a pattern -
not related to a special application or action, it can happen just after
boot up or it can happen after 12 hours, it can happen 4 times in a row
one day, another day it may not happen at all.

Anyone seen anything even remotely like this?

Yep. Its called "a bridge too far". You got greedy and got your fingers
burned. Its now whats commonly known as ****ED.



--
Conor

Greedo shot first. Greedo ALWAYS shot first. You did not see Solo shoot
first.
It never happened. Never, ever. Not in any version. Remember: Greedo
shot first.

 

[Gregor Veble]

Hello!

I recently upgraded to a stock 9600XT myself. I am having exact same
symptoms with my machine, where 3D performance is rock stable and there
occur VPU recoveries every once in a while in 2D, MS Word or iExplorer
being the worst (but not only) offenders. The card isn't overclocked or
modded in any way, and no matter which drivers are used the problem
seems to remain.

Unfortunately I didn't manage to resolve the issue myself, but reading
your post I do believe the problem lies with the mainboard, as mine is
the Asus A7V266-C so it's not that far removed from yours (XP1800+,
768MB). I hope some other people who may have similar problems may write
in to determine if that is indeed the source of the problem.

Greetings,

-Gregor

 

[Knut Nilsen]

Hello!

I recently upgraded to a stock 9600XT myself. I am having exact same
symptoms with my machine, where 3D performance is rock stable and there
occur VPU recoveries every once in a while in 2D, MS Word or iExplorer
being the worst (but not only) offenders. The card isn't overclocked or
modded in any way, and no matter which drivers are used the problem
seems to remain.

Unfortunately I didn't manage to resolve the issue myself, but reading
your post I do believe the problem lies with the mainboard, as mine is
the Asus A7V266-C so it's not that far removed from yours (XP1800+,
768MB). I hope some other people who may have similar problems may write
in to determine if that is indeed the source of the problem.

Interesting. I did some googling for ati xp and the kt266 chipset, but
didn't find anything. However, it seems to me that the drivers crash
somehow; I've sometimes experienced that the screen just goes black, and
I normally have to reboot, but sometimes I can get back to working, and
then 2D acceleration is off (i.e. the screen redraws real slowly) and
the ATI icon on the taskbar is gone.

I did try to completely remove (using Driver Cleaner 3) and reinstall
the drivers - no good results. But I've found a way of reproducing the
error - try starting MS Word, and press CTRL-H to open the Find and
Replace dialog (it sort of pops up from the bottom right of the word
window). Press cancel, then press CTRL-H again; repeat two or three
times. Then the system hangs and the VPU recover error appears - at
least for me.

I'll try disabling some of the 2D acceleration features, and see what
happens.

If you can reproduce the error the same way as I do, could you send an
error report to ATI and post the response you get, if any? I probably
won't get any - I've voided my warranty, i guess.....


Knut

 

[Gregor Veble]

Interesting. I did some googling for ati xp and the kt266 chipset, but
didn't find anything. However, it seems to me that the drivers crash
somehow; I've sometimes experienced that the screen just goes black, and
I normally have to reboot, but sometimes I can get back to working, and
then 2D acceleration is off (i.e. the screen redraws real slowly) and
the ATI icon on the taskbar is gone.

I did try to completely remove (using Driver Cleaner 3) and reinstall
the drivers - no good results. But I've found a way of reproducing the
error - try starting MS Word, and press CTRL-H to open the Find and
Replace dialog (it sort of pops up from the bottom right of the word
window). Press cancel, then press CTRL-H again; repeat two or three
times. Then the system hangs and the VPU recover error appears - at
least for me.

I'll try disabling some of the 2D acceleration features, and see what
happens.

If you can reproduce the error the same way as I do, could you send an
error report to ATI and post the response you get, if any? I probably
won't get any - I've voided my warranty, i guess.....


Knut

Hello!

Thanks for the tip, that was something I was looking for, a consistent
way to crash it. I did play a bit with graphics acceleration (though not
much) and that didn't seem to make much of a difference, but if I can
test it consistently that might help. I will play and let you know.

-Gregor

 

[Knut Nilsen]

Hello!

Thanks for the tip, that was something I was looking for, a consistent
way to crash it. I did play a bit with graphics acceleration (though not
much) and that didn't seem to make much of a difference, but if I can
test it consistently that might help. I will play and let you know.

-Gregor

It is definitely related to window drawing/resizing. I have disabled
'full window dragging' and animation during window
minimizing/maximizing, and it has reduced the crash frequency, although
it still occurs from time to time.

Had any luck with your testing, yet?

Knut

 

[First of One]

So... you get a temperature sensor and a stupid-conservative Overdrive
panel. These are not useful features and certainly do not impact image
quality.

 

[Knut Nilsen]

So... you get a temperature sensor and a stupid-conservative Overdrive
panel. These are not useful features and certainly do not impact image
quality.

No, I got a 10-15% higher performance on all tests that I ran, even at
equal clock speeds (referenced to testing with an overclocked pro before
flashing). There are minor differences between the R350 and R360 chip.
And, by the way, I didn't get the temp sensor; it's not supported on the
128MB PCB. But as you say, they're not very useful - except a temp
sensor would probably be nice.

I'll probably have to flash it back anyway, if I can't get the 2D crash
problem to disappear. But it was worth trying, anyway...

 

[Gregor Veble]

Hello!

I didn't get much time during the weekend, but at least I tested the
opening and closing of the Replace window in Word, and indeed, after a
few of such iterations the whole thing goes into the kind of error I am
experiencing.

What I also tried is something I've seen suggested, namely NOT using the
Hyperion VIA AGP driver but the one that comes with XP SP2, supposedly
there's some standard incompatibilities that may occur othrewise.
Unfortunately, that didn't seem to cure anything. Did you by any chance
run this card before XP SP2 and had the same issues? I only got mine
after SP2 was already on my machine.

Now, a lot of people say it can be related with the power supply, such
instabilities, but I am inclined to believe it would then also appear
during gameplay where the card is stressed highest, but since the
performance is then rock solid I don't believe that's an issue.
Admittedly my supply is probably not amongst the best (don't even know
what it is to be honest), so I am wondering if you perhaps ruled out
this option yourself? It might be that the window resizes put quite some
strain on AGP which the games don't to that extent, and that this is
what is causing probs.

Greetings,

-Gregor

 

[Knut Nilsen]

Hello!

I didn't get much time during the weekend, but at least I tested the
opening and closing of the Replace window in Word, and indeed, after a
few of such iterations the whole thing goes into the kind of error I am
experiencing.

So, I would say we see the same problem - interesting since the 9600xt
that you use has a differeng GPU than mine (RV360 vs R360).

What I also tried is something I've seen suggested, namely NOT using the
Hyperion VIA AGP driver but the one that comes with XP SP2, supposedly
there's some standard incompatibilities that may occur othrewise.
Unfortunately, that didn't seem to cure anything. Did you by any chance
run this card before XP SP2 and had the same issues? I only got mine
after SP2 was already on my machine.

I have not used the Hyperion drivers, only the ones that come with XP
SP2. I have only used the card with XP SP2. I do not think it is related
to the AGP drivers.

Now, a lot of people say it can be related with the power supply, such
instabilities, but I am inclined to believe it would then also appear
during gameplay where the card is stressed highest, but since the
performance is then rock solid I don't believe that's an issue.
Admittedly my supply is probably not amongst the best (don't even know
what it is to be honest), so I am wondering if you perhaps ruled out
this option yourself? It might be that the window resizes put quite some
strain on AGP which the games don't to that extent, and that this is
what is causing probs.

I have an Antec sonata case with an Antec 380W PSU; should be more than
sufficient. Never saw anything like this until I flashed the card into
an 9800xt.

It could be an AGP voltage problem; I have seen something about that
being a potential problem. However, I can't adjust the AGP voltage on
the A7V266-E motherboard.

Since you have found a consistent way to crash your bord, I would
suggest that you report the problem to ati tech support. I'd be very
interested in any feedback you get...

Knut

 

[nusit]

Hello!

I recently upgraded to a stock 9600XT myself. I am having exact same
symptoms with my machine, where 3D performance is rock stable and there
occur VPU recoveries every once in a while in 2D, MS Word or iExplorer
being the worst (but not only) offenders. The card isn't overclocked or
modded in any way, and no matter which drivers are used the problem
seems to remain.

I have the same issue..
In my case the card is a Gecube 9800 Pro 128 MB, and it happens as depicted
in Knut Nielsen's 04/12 message.
3d behaviour is rock solid, while in 2d normal use i experience random vpu
recover messages; i tried lowering agp speed from 8x to 4x, and disabling
fast write, but it was pointless. Never tried to play with agp voltage
settings, but i think it's already set up to 1.5v (think lowering would
help?).

Crashes happen mostly when moving around windows, scrolling big sidebars
(i.e. a sidebar of a window full of objects), browsing file and mail folders
(indeed, i experience crashes either while using outlook).

Unfortunately I didn't manage to resolve the issue myself, but reading
your post I do believe the problem lies with the mainboard, as mine is
the Asus A7V266-C so it's not that far removed from yours (XP1800+,
768MB). I hope some other people who may have similar problems may write
in to determine if that is indeed the source of the problem.

It's not the mobo model, just because i don't have the A7V266-C, but may be
the manufacturer (Asus).
Chipsets from these 2 boards are deeply different (i think, checking asus
web table).
Initially i thought of a faulty card, but after reading your messages, that
showed an extremely similal behaviour, are making me hope it's just a dirver
issue.

I forgot to say i use ati original catalyst ver 4.11, while i'm not using
SP2, but i think i will format and install, just to give it a try.
Maybe non-original drivers would help, otherwise i could try with Gecube's,
but i think they're just ati's remarked.

Hope that someone, from ati or asus, would make available a fix, just
because it's starting to piss me off.

If needed i could run some tests, to check if we can reproduce similar
behaviour of our machines, and shrink the range of possible causes.

Bye,
larss

 

[Knut Nilsen]

I have the same issue..
In my case the card is a Gecube 9800 Pro 128 MB, and it happens as depicted
in Knut Nielsen's 04/12 message.
3d behaviour is rock solid, while in 2d normal use i experience random vpu
recover messages; i tried lowering agp speed from 8x to 4x, and disabling
fast write, but it was pointless. Never tried to play with agp voltage
settings, but i think it's already set up to 1.5v (think lowering would
help?).

Did you mod the card (i.e. flash bios to an XT, like I did)? If not,
have you contacted ATI tech support?

Crashes happen mostly when moving around windows, scrolling big sidebars
(i.e. a sidebar of a window full of objects), browsing file and mail folders
(indeed, i experience crashes either while using outlook).

Looks very much like my problem.

It's not the mobo model, just because i don't have the A7V266-C, but may be
the manufacturer (Asus).
Chipsets from these 2 boards are deeply different (i think, checking asus
web table).
Initially i thought of a faulty card, but after reading your messages, that
showed an extremely similal behaviour, are making me hope it's just a dirver
issue.

Which motherboard do you have?

Knut

 

[larss]

Hello, Knut!
You wrote on Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:54:10 +0100:

KN> Did you mod the card (i.e. flash bios to an XT, like I did)? If not,
KN> have you contacted ATI tech support?

Nope for both.
I was starting sharing the info i gathered and try to solve the problem with
you guys.
If becomes clear that without a direct help from ati or asus we'll
accomplish nothing, il give them a call.

KN> Looks very much like my problem.

I hope it's a driver issue and not a card fault. The fact that our sympthoms
are so similar drives me to the former case.

KN> Which motherboard do you have?

A7N8X-E Asus mobo.

Let me know if you make any progress; alternatively we could join to write
down two lines for the ati's/asus' tech support.

larss

 

[larss]

Hello, Knut!
You wrote on Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:54:10 +0100:

KN> nusit wrote:

[megasnip]

BTW, have you checked http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/3968.html ?

larss, who's making some test to solve the issue and soon will post the
results.

 

[Knut Nilsen]

BTW, have you checked http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/3968.html ?

Yes, I have now Seems like ATI acknowledge there is a problem, but
they don't seem to have a clear idea about what causes it. The solutions
they offer are pretty consistent with other tips and tricks for solving
'general' crashes and problems with ATI's cards. I'll take a look at the
BIOS settings, though, and disabling the AGP Write setting, and do some
tests again.

larss, who's making some test to solve the issue and soon will post the
results.

Great! Looking forward to your post!


Knut

 

[Knut Nilsen]

BTW, have you checked http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/3968.html ?

larss, who's making some test to solve the issue and soon will post the
results.

Well, I did some tests, too. New 4.12 drivers didn't help (not that I
expected them to). Disabling AGP writes didn't help. BIOS experiments next.

Knut