9700pro discontinued?

[Longshanks]

Why dont u all take a look at this 9800 nonpro review

http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/ati_radeon_9800/default.asp

Actually that doesn't look too bad, I just checked the Canuckian
prices and it's a way better price than the 9700pro was anyway and
they perform almost the same.I never considered a non pro card so
never looked up any performance benchmarks. I'm still sitting on the
fence though because I own a few flight sims that I know the 9700/9800
Radeon cards have problems with. But thx again and sorry for my
trolling, apologies to ATI too.

 

[Ben Pope]

Actually that doesn't look too bad, I just checked the Canuckian
prices and it's a way better price than the 9700pro was anyway and
they perform almost the same.I never considered a non pro card so
never looked up any performance benchmarks. I'm still sitting on the
fence though because I own a few flight sims that I know the 9700/9800
Radeon cards have problems with. But thx again and sorry for my
trolling, apologies to ATI too.

Well done for apologising, very rare to see.

Basically the problem seems to come down to people comapring the 9700 pro
CLEARANCE price with the 9800 pro retail price. Looking at Crucials site, I
don't think the price moved much when they went from the 9700 pro to the
9800 pro.

Also, between the 9700/9500 range and the 9800/9600 range there was an
updaet from R300 to R350, now the later core supports a later version of
DirectX and is generally just a little more up to date and streamlined.
There are Versions 2.1 of Pixel and Vertex shaders as well as improved depth
buffer and other improvements.

Since a particular core, be it R300, R350, R420 or whatever, can support
various configurations from budget to top-of-the-line it makes sense for
them to fab only one core and discontinue all products based on the old
core. This is very similar to what nVidia are doing.

Ben

 

[Longshanks]

Well done for apologising, very rare to see.

Basically the problem seems to come down to people comapring the 9700 pro
CLEARANCE price with the 9800 pro retail price. Looking at Crucials site, I
don't think the price moved much when they went from the 9700 pro to the
9800 pro.

Also, between the 9700/9500 range and the 9800/9600 range there was an
updaet from R300 to R350, now the later core supports a later version of
DirectX and is generally just a little more up to date and streamlined.
There are Versions 2.1 of Pixel and Vertex shaders as well as improved depth
buffer and other improvements.

Since a particular core, be it R300, R350, R420 or whatever, can support
various configurations from budget to top-of-the-line it makes sense for
them to fab only one core and discontinue all products based on the old
core. This is very similar to what nVidia are doing.

Ben

Yea, it does make sense from that perspective but as usual I looked at
it from the angle of the big bad corporation trying to screw the
consumer. Did I tell you I'm a member of 'The Fight Club"?
I'm trying to get a decent quote on a 9800 locally right now and if
the price is right I will get one.

 

[Toby Groves]

Yea sure, that's why they still make all those old cards, eh? The 9000
is nothing but a very slightly modified 8500 with a new name. There is
no reason they still can't make the 9700pro. They are only hurting
their sales profits by stopping production of the 9700pro. Lots of
people who would buy a 9700pro will not pay the price for the 9800pro
when they know the perforamnce difference doesn't warrant the cost.
But hey, a fool and his money are soon parted so maybe I am wrong
about that.

1. Only the 9500 and 9700 used the R300 core. Since they've
discontinued the 9500 already, continuing production of the 9700
requires that they continue manufacturing R300 chips specifically for
this purpose, which is not economical.

2. The 9800 has been released to provide a direct replacement for the
9700 Pro, at very similar performance and price.

 

[Toby Groves]

Since a particular core, be it R300, R350, R420 or whatever, can support
various configurations from budget to top-of-the-line it makes sense for
them to fab only one core and discontinue all products based on the old
core. This is very similar to what nVidia are doing.

Normally I'd agree with you, but just to throw a spanner in the works,
ATI have deviated from this with their current cards. Whilst the 9500
and 9700 cards were based on exactly the same core, the 9800 and 9600
cards are not, requiring separate cores to be produced for each.

From what I've read, it appears that the 9500 wasn't a very good move
for ATI from a business perspective. It used the relatively expensive
(to produce) R300 core, yet sold at a very low price point compared to
the 9700 cards, squeezing their margins considerably.

With the 9600s, they have produced the RV350 core, which is very similar
to the R300, save for a few minor technical differences, but crucially
is a .13 micron part. This allows them to squeeze more onto a single
silicon wafer compared to the R350, thus bringing costs down on this
core, and keeping the margins on the 9600 cards up.

I strongly suspect that ATI are also using the RV350 core as a means of
"testing the water" with .13 micron, especially given the problems
NVidia experienced with it. Once they're happy with the process,
they'll begin shifting their top-end cores over to it, which I believe
will start happening from Loki onwards.

 

[Toby Groves]

OK, there are some slight differences, I looked it up after I made
this post. Still, that doesn't warrant discontinuing the 9700pro. The
performance and price point I want is right where the 9700pro was
sitting. Oh well, they just lost themselves a sale, no loss to me.

You obviously have not the slightest grasp of how these processors are
made. Why on earth would ATI continue to produce the old R300 core
aswell as the R350? How on earth can the streamlining of production
from two cores to one be unwarranted?

The 9800 is designed to replace the 9700 Pro directly, get one of those.

Play FS2004 on a 9700pro or 9800pro recently. I remember I couldn't
play FS2002 at first without hacked drivers when I had an R8500 too.

WTF has that got to do with anything? You claimed the 9700 and 9800
cores were exactly the same, you were wrong.