2500 Barton - running too hot?

[Neil]

I just upgraded my system internals, buying a
pre-built/pre-tested/pre-configured 2500+ Barton, with ECS L7VTA mainboard
(V1.1), 2 x 256mb PC2700, and a Spire fan (all from Novatech in the UK).

I'm not trying any form of overclocking.

Right from when I first turned it on, the BIOS reported the CPU temp as
around 66 degrees C. After a few mins powered on, it was at 69-70. With
moderate usage it hit 72 degrees. I called the vendor, who suggested I
lift and reseat the heatsink in case it was offset. On doing that I could
see the thermal pad on the bottom of that was really thin where it made
contact, and almost no residue on the CPU. I've cleaned both off, and
tried some Arctic Silver II, and that possibly reduced the temperature by
(just) 3-4 degrees.

I'm having trouble getting any sensible readings out of Motherboard Monitor
5, but if I reboot and check the BIOS temps, even after just Email running
previously, it's running at around 65 to 66 degrees.

If I take the side of the case off, the temperature drops by 1 degree or so.
If I direct a room fan at the open side it drops perhaps 1-2 degrees more,
but still is idling at 60-61 degrees C.

With the system on, the room it's in tends to get a little warm (24-25
degrees centrigade). Ihaven't found a sensor in MBM that shows the
internal system temperature.

From other posts though it does appear as if other people are running more
at 45-50 degrees C.

Am running in a case with 2 to 3 EIDE hard-drives; 1 x DVD, 1x DVD-R, and 3
PCI cards, plus an AGP card. The case has a fan on the lower front drawing
air in, and a fan on the rear middle drawing out. Power supply is 300W.

I welcome any thoughts/advice. I'm a bit frustrated, as I though buying a
pre-configured system, and a supposedly cooler Barton, would eliminate such
problems.

 

[Lee Blaver]

I'm not trying any form of overclocking.

Right from when I first turned it on, the BIOS reported the CPU temp as
around 66 degrees C. After a few mins powered on, it was at 69-70. With
moderate usage it hit 72 degrees. I called the vendor, who suggested I
lift and reseat the heatsink in case it was offset. On doing that I could
see the thermal pad on the bottom of that was really thin where it made
contact, and almost no residue on the CPU. I've cleaned both off, and
tried some Arctic Silver II, and that possibly reduced the temperature by
(just) 3-4 degrees.

Have you checked that the HSF they have supplied is actually recommended
for the Barton?
I assume it's at least copper-cored?

Lee

 

[John]

I hope the vendor made sure you had something to replace the thermal pad
before he/she told you to reseat the heatsink.

Since you had Artic Silver II on hand, I'll bet you already know the
following, but just in case, I'll say it anyway. Make sure you don't use
too much of the thermal compound since that can be almost as bad as too
little. Also, how thoroughly did you clean off the thermal pad? If you
aren't familiar with the process, check:

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm

Again, please forgive me if you already know all this.

 

[Guest]

I just upgraded my system internals, buying a
pre-built/pre-tested/pre-configured 2500+ Barton, with ECS L7VTA mainboard
(V1.1), 2 x 256mb PC2700, and a Spire fan (all from Novatech in the UK).

I'm not trying any form of overclocking.

Right from when I first turned it on, the BIOS reported the CPU temp as
around 66 degrees C. After a few mins powered on, it was at 69-70. With
moderate usage it hit 72 degrees. I called the vendor, who suggested I
lift and reseat the heatsink in case it was offset. On doing that I could
see the thermal pad on the bottom of that was really thin where it made
contact, and almost no residue on the CPU. I've cleaned both off, and
tried some Arctic Silver II, and that possibly reduced the temperature by
(just) 3-4 degrees.

I'm having trouble getting any sensible readings out of Motherboard Monitor
5, but if I reboot and check the BIOS temps, even after just Email running
previously, it's running at around 65 to 66 degrees.

If I take the side of the case off, the temperature drops by 1 degree or so.
If I direct a room fan at the open side it drops perhaps 1-2 degrees more,
but still is idling at 60-61 degrees C.

With the system on, the room it's in tends to get a little warm (24-25
degrees centrigade). Ihaven't found a sensor in MBM that shows the
internal system temperature.

From other posts though it does appear as if other people are running more
at 45-50 degrees C.

Am running in a case with 2 to 3 EIDE hard-drives; 1 x DVD, 1x DVD-R, and 3
PCI cards, plus an AGP card. The case has a fan on the lower front drawing
air in, and a fan on the rear middle drawing out. Power supply is 300W.

I welcome any thoughts/advice. I'm a bit frustrated, as I though buying a
pre-configured system, and a supposedly cooler Barton, would eliminate such
problems.

I've just built a system which includes a Retail 2500+ Barton onto a MSI
K7N2G-L board and the cpu core temp idles at around 35 degrees. Mind you
the heatsink has a nice lump of copper on the base. Not bothered with ASIII
this time, just used the pad on the base. The mediocre Tsunami case has only
one extra fan sucking air out a couple of Seagate Barra's, DVD/CD/RW,
Geforce 4 and a couple of other cards. I must say that the board and the
barton make a good combination, rock solid.
Best advice would be to build one yourself, if you can. I guess you already
know that. Also I hope you have a decent PSU in there.

<<S>>

 

[Neil]

Have you checked that the HSF they have supplied is actually recommended

for the Barton?
I assume it's at least copper-cored?

Um, no..... it had no particular markings, and the store is a
nationwide-selling long established, pc-making company, so I'd made the
assumption they would supply matched outfits. I could be wrong on that
though, particularly bearing in mind how what was released was so quickly
operating at such a high temperature. I'll call them and check.

Neil

 

[Neil]

I hope the vendor made sure you had something to replace the thermal pad

before he/she told you to reseat the heatsink.

No they didn't. :-(

Since you had Artic Silver II on hand, I'll bet you already know the
following, but just in case, I'll say it anyway. Make sure you don't use
too much of the thermal compound since that can be almost as bad as too
little. Also, how thoroughly did you clean off the thermal pad? If you
aren't familiar with the process, check:

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm

Again, please forgive me if you already know all this.

Comments welcomed. Unfortunately as the system was down, I'd had no web
access to check the site, as I'd wanted to.

Looking at it I:
* may have not cleaned the bottom of the heatsink, and top of chips
sufficiently. Had no isonpronyl alchohol, and not sure what else to use.
* did touch both with my fingers
* may have applied just a little too much AS II.

I'll start again, though any other hints, and an indication of what
"goodness" should be for this setup is still appreciated. Also why
MBM seems to be reporting 14-15 degrees higher than the BIOS.

ps. in answer to the previous reply, the bottom of the heatsink does have a
round copper coloured centre.

Neil

 

[djimbo]

I just upgraded my system internals, buying a
pre-built/pre-tested/pre-configured 2500+ Barton, with ECS L7VTA mainboard
(V1.1), 2 x 256mb PC2700, and a Spire fan (all from Novatech in the UK).

I'm not trying any form of overclocking.

Right from when I first turned it on, the BIOS reported the CPU temp as
around 66 degrees C. After a few mins powered on, it was at 69-70. With
moderate usage it hit 72 degrees.

I may be miss-interpreting what you've written here, but if the BIOS is
reporting 66DegC on startup [from cold]
then the sensor is wildly miscalibrated.
They always err on the high side, but I'm going to suggest that no CPU gets
up to 66DegC before you have a chance to read the BIOS data (assuming some
heatsinking and fan running of course).
If the room temp is 23 DegC then it should be starting from somewhere
arround there in the first few seconds.
You appear to be saying it only goes up 6DegC from cold, which is
acceptable.
Have you tried feeling the chip/Heatsink in operation to see if the MK1
finger-end test can discern overheating?
Presuming of course you have some idea from other CPUs
Or better still a known reliable temp probe, say on a multimeter.

jim.

 

[Strontium]

Reading your post, I get the feeling that it may be just a bad sensor.

-
Neil stood up, at show-n-tell in [email protected]
and said:

 

[Tony Houghton]

In <[email protected]>,

I just upgraded my system internals, buying a
pre-built/pre-tested/pre-configured 2500+ Barton, with ECS L7VTA mainboard
(V1.1), 2 x 256mb PC2700, and a Spire fan (all from Novatech in the UK).

[Running very hot]

FWIW my friend recently got a set of parts from Novatech, including an
XP2000+ (I think it's a Palomino though, so prone to generating lots of
heat, probably more than the Barton) and a cooler which was supposed to
be good enough for up to 2GHz. In the hot weather recently his system
shut down because it reached 75C.

This looks like the best deal in Athlon coolers ATM:

http://www.astleywhittle.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=378

 

[Tony Houghton]

In <[email protected]>,

I may be miss-interpreting what you've written here, but if the BIOS is
reporting 66DegC on startup [from cold]
then the sensor is wildly miscalibrated.
They always err on the high side, but I'm going to suggest that no CPU gets
up to 66DegC before you have a chance to read the BIOS data (assuming some
heatsinking and fan running of course).

It will if the heatsink is making bad contact, but then the temperature
rise under load would probably be more severe.

 

[dorothy.bradbury]

CPU coolers recirculate air - usually 50-70oC.

Leaving the side of a caseoff, reduces this by allowing some of the
exhausted heatsink air to be moved "out of intake" more easily.

Adding a desk-fan blowing right at the CPU cooler is around 80-400cfm.
That this only dropped the temperature by 1-2oC suggests a problem:
o The heatsink is grossly under-sized re cooling/transfer/size
o The CPU temperature monitoring is grossly inaccurate

I suspect the latter, but there is a relatively simple test.
o If the CPU were running 62oC+ as cited
o Then the heatsink itself should be barely touchable

The limit for a human to hold anything is ~67oC.
Above that and the perception is usually one of pain.

Another factor is whether the fan is working properly, there are (very)
few situations where a fan runs grossly below spec rpm however.

 

[ß Ø ® G]

I was a bit sus of the heat readings on my Mobo so I went to Lidls and
bought a digital thermometer for £2.99 and used that to check, nice
fine point to get onto the heatsink at the base and other components


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[Michael Cecil]

But instead you trust a digital thermometer . . . . from Lidl . . . . . for
£2.99 . . . . . ROFLMAO . . . . .

The advantage to a stand alone thermometer is you can check it's
calibration (vs boiling water and ice, etc.) instead of taking it for
granted or guessing as to the accuracy of the bios temp readings.

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

Right from when I first turned it on, the BIOS reported the CPU temp as
around 66 degrees C. After a few mins powered on, it was at 69-70. With
moderate usage it hit 72 degrees.

Not wishing to teach granny to suck eggs, but you did make sure to align
the step in the base of the heatsink with the raised portion of the
socket, didn't you?

Are you fitting the heatsink with the motherboard in the case? Try
taking it all out and doing it on a flat surface, so you get a better
view of how the heatsink and cpu mate, then install the assembled
shebang into the case.

From other posts though it does appear as if other people are running more
at 45-50 degrees C.

I run an XP2400+ (T'bred though, not Barton) at about 48-ish.

Am running in a case with 2 to 3 EIDE hard-drives; 1 x DVD, 1x DVD-R, and 3
PCI cards, plus an AGP card. The case has a fan on the lower front drawing
air in, and a fan on the rear middle drawing out. Power supply is 300W.

That's rather a lot for a 300W PSU. Is it a decent quality one?

 

[spodosaurus]

No they didn't. :-(




Comments welcomed. Unfortunately as the system was down, I'd had no web
access to check the site, as I'd wanted to.

Looking at it I:
* may have not cleaned the bottom of the heatsink, and top of chips
sufficiently. Had no isonpronyl alchohol, and not sure what else to use.

I use acetone for preliminary cleaning with a clean rag. I then use
alcohol wipes available from a drug store that are used for cleaning an
area before an injection to do the final clean and take off any lint
from the first stage.

* did touch both with my fingers

reclean it if you touched the contact area of the heat sink or the die
of the CPU.

* may have applied just a little too much AS II.

You need a VERY small amount. I often take a plastic sandwich bag and
use this to create a barrier between my finger and the thermal grease
and then spread it around like that. It's surprising how little you need.

I'll start again, though any other hints, and an indication of what
"goodness" should be for this setup is still appreciated. Also why
MBM seems to be reporting 14-15 degrees higher than the BIOS.

Is it set for the correct chips?

ps. in answer to the previous reply, the bottom of the heatsink does have a
round copper coloured centre.

Neil

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[Tim Auton]

You can easily check the calibration of such a device - ice = 0 degrees,

To be a bit anal about it, you want melting ice in a little water. Ice
straight fron the freezer will be well below zero.


Tim

 

[Tony Houghton]

In <[email protected]>,

I suspect the latter, but there is a relatively simple test.
o If the CPU were running 62oC+ as cited
o Then the heatsink itself should be barely touchable

But not if the reason the CPU is running so hot is because the heat
isn't being transferred properly into the heatsink.

 

[dorothy.bradbury]

Aside, check your voltages are in spec.
In some situations you can have bad temperature readings if the voltages are
off.

Rare, but it can happen. Seen it in a 24-pin 460W 1U Dual-Xeon PSU.

 

[tHatDudeUK]

Um, no..... it had no particular markings, and the store is a
nationwide-selling long established, pc-making company, so I'd made the
assumption they would supply matched outfits. I could be wrong on that
though, particularly bearing in mind how what was released was so quickly
operating at such a high temperature. I'll call them and check.

That sounds like the problem right there. Get a decent coolermaster cooler
rated for use with this CPU.

 

[Lee Blaver]

Neil wrote:

The dealer has sent me a replacement fan, in a retail box, so I can see now
that what I had/have is a Speeze SPA07B2 MicroFlow II. It says it is
rated to a 3.2Ghz Barton. Can't find this on their website though. It
looks a lot like the EEA10B4 though, on www.speeze.com

http://www.spirecoolers.com/asp/fcc.asp?ProdID=95

Very similar to the quiet Spire cooler I junked in favour of
the (very noisy!) X-dream I have now

Lee