Zalman 7000 - Anyone's HSF Scratched?

[QZ]

I just got a Zalman CNPS7000-AlCu (OEM boxed) and some Arctic Silver 5. (I
have Asus P4C800-E Dlx, CPU, and RAM, yet to be installed.)

The cardboard holder is torn. And looking at the bottom of the heatsink,
*under light*, I can see some scratchs. A few scratchs are in the outer
parts of the CPU area, the rest are outside the CPU area. Maybe the
cardboard scratched the heatsink?
I was very annoyed by this, but how much would the difference be temp.-wise?

I notice that the retail version doesn't have any protective plastic for the
bottom of the heatsink, either, but it is in a plastic case.
Did any of you look at your heatsink *under light* and see any scratchs?

In case someone says to send it back, I have other parts sitting for a
while, so I can't send it back *across the country*, and wait for them to
send another one.

This HSF *appears to me* to have been handled and/or installed. It appears
that they deceiptfully or carelessly sent to me as being being new, when it
isn't. If this is the case, I should not have to wait and possibly lose
warranties on other items due to their mistake. This is not a defect or
shipping damage.

I would pay for an advance replacement *w/same shipping method*,
if, when they get it back, they would then refund for the HSF *and
shipping*. Or I would take a HSF *and shipping* refund. They don't mention
these choices in their policies, but this is their mistake. If they refuse,
I could dispute the CC charge and buy from another vendor.

(They had the 'A' version, which also happens to be retail boxed, but
wasn't listed under Intel, so I didn't see it.)

I would have gone with NewEgg, but they had only their standard 30 days
warranty, while this other place had 1 year. I wish they had stated OEM,
then I would not have bought a HSF OEM.

 

[Larc]

On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 00:32:25 -0400, "QZ" <nothing> wrote:

| I would have gone with NewEgg, but they had only their standard 30 days
| warranty, while this other place had 1 year. I wish they had stated OEM,
| then I would not have bought a HSF OEM.

Zalman only has a 30-day warranty? The Zalman products at Newegg are
retail, so Zalman USA would be responsible for the warranty.

Larc



§§§ - Change planet to earth to reply by email - §§§

 

[QZ]

On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 00:32:25 -0400, "QZ" <nothing> wrote:

| I would have gone with NewEgg, but they had only their standard 30 days
| warranty, while this other place had 1 year. I wish they had stated OEM,
| then I would not have bought a HSF OEM.

Zalman only has a 30-day warranty? The Zalman products at Newegg are
retail, so Zalman USA would be responsible for the warranty.

The NewEgg *vendor* warranty is 30 advance replacement on Retail items
except CPUs.
IIRC, the Zalman manufacturer warranty is 1 year, but you have to wait
while it is sent back, they repair or replace it, and then send it back to
you.

Anyway, I want to know if anyone has looked at the bottom of the heatsink
under light.
And, how I should handle this, as I would like to e-mail them this weekend,
if needed.

 

[Frank]

Back! And off it goes. Zalman has excellent products. no scratches or
anything. i use them over here in Germany and i´ve installed a few dozens.
NO, i repeat NO one of theses ever had something you describe.

Sent it back and get a new one

 

[wooducoodu]

get over it. if you have to look that hard to see a scratch it's not worth
fretting over. have you ever looked at the bottom of the intel heatsink. it
looks like they finished that with about a 60 grit sandpaper. also, you
realize the bottom of the zalman isn't a solid piece of metal. it's the
individual fins clamped very tight together then ground smooth, so you may
just be able to make out the lines of the fins. if it bothers you that much
clean it up with a little metal polish.

 

[tooly]

I just got a Zalman CNPS7000-AlCu (OEM boxed) and some Arctic Silver 5. (I
have Asus P4C800-E Dlx, CPU, and RAM, yet to be installed.)

The cardboard holder is torn. And looking at the bottom of the heatsink,
*under light*, I can see some scratchs. A few scratchs are in the outer
parts of the CPU area, the rest are outside the CPU area. Maybe the
cardboard scratched the heatsink?
I was very annoyed by this, but how much would the difference be temp.-wise?

I notice that the retail version doesn't have any protective plastic for the
bottom of the heatsink, either, but it is in a plastic case.
Did any of you look at your heatsink *under light* and see any scratchs?

In case someone says to send it back, I have other parts sitting for a
while, so I can't send it back *across the country*, and wait for them to
send another one.

This HSF *appears to me* to have been handled and/or installed. It appears
that they deceiptfully or carelessly sent to me as being being new, when it
isn't. If this is the case, I should not have to wait and possibly lose
warranties on other items due to their mistake. This is not a defect or
shipping damage.

I would pay for an advance replacement *w/same shipping method*,
if, when they get it back, they would then refund for the HSF *and
shipping*. Or I would take a HSF *and shipping* refund. They don't mention
these choices in their policies, but this is their mistake. If they refuse,
I could dispute the CC charge and buy from another vendor.

(They had the 'A' version, which also happens to be retail boxed, but
wasn't listed under Intel, so I didn't see it.)

I would have gone with NewEgg, but they had only their standard 30 days
warranty, while this other place had 1 year. I wish they had stated OEM,
then I would not have bought a HSF OEM.

Hope you get this resolved. I really hate it when I find 'used' products
being repackaged as 'new'. It is really crooked business practice IMO.

This is one reason why I purchase from newegg even when I might find better
bargains elsewhere. They've really gained my trust now...and that is
value-added to the product I'm buying [which offsets any few dollars more I
might pay...which usually is pretty competitive anyway]. It's a shame in a
way, for I know there must be other reputable dealers on pricewatch...but
they should observe NewEgg's total devotion to customer service, timeliness,
and 'above board' practices if they want to be competitive on the net.
TRUST is everything on the internet. Then you read a story like yours, and
it makes one 'recoil' from ever even looking elsewhere other than an
'already' trusted vendor [for most of us, that's NewEgg].

This company repacking used as new, actually puts a black eye on all the
companies trying to be competitive. All the internet vendors should unite
in some way against 'bad business competitors' and drum them out as being
'bad for the general business community' on the internet. NewEgg has
cornered the computer parts market [pretty much so anyway] with simple TRUST
through excellent customer service. Idiot dealers like this one you speak
of, obviously are not observing to see what it takes to make a 'successful'
company.

 

[QZ]

get over it. if you have to look that hard to see a scratch it's not worth
fretting over.

The scratchs can be seen even under indirect light.

have you ever looked at the bottom of the intel heatsink. it
looks like they finished that with about a 60 grit sandpaper.

That is one reason the Intel heatsink can't compare to the Zalman.

also, you
realize the bottom of the zalman isn't a solid piece of metal. it's the
individual fins clamped very tight together then ground smooth, so you may
just be able to make out the lines of the fins.

No, the scratchs are irregular lines.

if it bothers you that much
clean it up with a little metal polish.

Can anyone else confirm that using metal polish is ok for the heatsink?
Any specific type?

 

[QZ]

This is one reason why I purchase from newegg even when I might find better
bargains elsewhere.

The ~$5 savings was not relevant to me. It was because of the *vendor*
warranty of 1 yr. instead of 30 days.

They've really gained my trust now...and that is
value-added to the product I'm buying [which offsets any few dollars more I
might pay...which usually is pretty competitive anyway]. It's a shame in a
way, for I know there must be other reputable dealers on pricewatch...

I don't even search pricewatch. I use resellerratings and start with the
best.

but
they should observe NewEgg's total devotion to customer service, timeliness,
and 'above board' practices if they want to be competitive on the net.
TRUST is everything on the internet. Then you read a story like yours, and
it makes one 'recoil' from ever even looking elsewhere other than an
'already' trusted vendor [for most of us, that's NewEgg].

NewEgg has its flaws, I have read of them selling *retail* mainboards that
were obviously installed. (They can do this because the box isn't sealed.)
They have sent OEM CPUs that were installed. OEM Memory not packed well in
the box. And, even after reading all of their policies, and questioning
them, they don't clearly say if retail CPUs have a vendor warranty of 30
days or not. Retail memory seems to be fine with them.

Therefore, I bought my mainboard, memory, and CPU (all retail) elsewhere,
all with one year warranties, and it cost me ~$80 more. (I could have bought
the retail memory from them, but I paid more to get the 1 yr. warranty.)

Seeing many places showing the Zalman in a retail container, I assumed that
is all they existed. I wish I had noticed that many places spcifically say
'retail', and this place didn't. Regardless, an unsealed OEM box doesn't
give them the right to sell slightly used items as new; they should be 'open
box' items.

 

[Milleron]

Back! And off it goes. Zalman has excellent products. no scratches or
anything. i use them over here in Germany and i´ve installed a few dozens.
NO, i repeat NO one of theses ever had something you describe.

Sent it back and get a new one

Wait a minute. If these scratches are small in size and number and
difficult to see, then installing the present HS with properly-applied
Arctic Silver 5 should work OK. I just read a review in "CPU"
magazine that described lapping both the processor die and the
heatsink with sandpaper up to a grit rating of 1000 and polishing and
that entire process only lowered operating temps under load by 3°C.
I'd return this product only if the scratching was very obvious.
Ron

 

[Milleron]

The scratchs can be seen even under indirect light.


That is one reason the Intel heatsink can't compare to the Zalman.


No, the scratchs are irregular lines.


Can anyone else confirm that using metal polish is ok for the heatsink?
Any specific type?

The "CPU Magazine" review in the September issue recommends either
Mothers Tear Away polish or NEVR-DULL. "Both of these products
consist of chemically treated, wadded fibers. Simply tear away a
2-inch piece and use it to polish the surface. To polish, you want to
work in circles -- not straight lines -- and it's OK to use a little
[force] at this point."
Ron

 

[QZ]

The "CPU Magazine" review in the September issue recommends either
Mothers Tear Away polish or NEVR-DULL. "Both of these products
consist of chemically treated, wadded fibers. Simply tear away a
2-inch piece and use it to polish the surface. To polish, you want to
work in circles -- not straight lines -- and it's OK to use a little
[force] at this point."

Thanks for the info. The CPU Magazine requires a sub. to read the entire
article. Do you have any more relevant excerpts?

I see both of the products on the web, but not at Home Depot's site. I was
hoping to stop at the local Home Depot and get one of them. Maybe a hardware
store will have it. I don't have a PC right now and time is of the essence.
Plus, shipping is more than product itself.

I guess micro surface scratches are inconsequential, maybe a fraction of a
degree difference, I don't know. Regardless, the principle of it bothers me.
I treat things carefully. The retail box has the HSF suspended in the air of
the plastic bubble, the others that have a plastic piece on the bottom have
to be the OEM. This OEM box had nothing protecting the bottom.

Also, I see the copper bands, that run through the middle of the aluminum
bottom, are not all the same, mostly whitish copper color, plus it has dust.
I hear to use 100% Isopropanol. But isn't 70% fine as long as it is left to
dry for a few minutes?

Does polishing alone remove micro scratches on an otherwise perfectly flat
surface?

If I get the polish, is the alcohol cleaning necessary afterwards?

 

[Ronald Cole]

Also, I see the copper bands, that run through the middle of the aluminum
bottom, are not all the same, mostly whitish copper color, plus it has dust.
I hear to use 100% Isopropanol. But isn't 70% fine as long as it is left to
dry for a few minutes?

That's "Rubbing" alcohol and the other 30% is mineral oil.

 

[Tim]

I have one simple rule.

If it works 100% and has the backing of the Vendors warrantee, then I don't
care.

It used to worry me. Until I realised that the Vendor concerned was going
out of their way to record serial numbers to ensure that the warrantees that
they honoured were for products that they had sold. This meant that they had
to open some boxes. The degree of ease one gets when the vendor swaps
without argument (maybe testing) and always honours warratee is worth it.
Vendors need to learn from that - customers will go back for all of
eternity.

This is not the case here unfortunately, but the same principle applies. IE
does the scratch affect the product, and when you mount the heatsink are you
going to make many more much larger scratches on first go? The Zalman is not
the easiest HSF to fit.

Another example here is people that must buy the Retail product. I had one
customer who refused to take an OEM product (at much less than retail price)
because it did not come in a pretty box. I had told him prior to ordering
that at the price, it was OEM and what that meant, but he had to have the
box... (Brain dead f*******er - excuse me).

Only use pure isopropyl alcohol. The reason why it is used is a) no
residues, and b) it is rated to not dissolve the insulating materials used
in electronics - manufacturers test palstics and use appropriately rated
stuff to ensure you won't get a melt down.

- Tim

This is one reason why I purchase from newegg even when I might find better
bargains elsewhere.

The ~$5 savings was not relevant to me. It was because of the *vendor*
warranty of 1 yr. instead of 30 days.

They've really gained my trust now...and that is
value-added to the product I'm buying [which offsets any few dollars more I
might pay...which usually is pretty competitive anyway]. It's a shame in a
way, for I know there must be other reputable dealers on pricewatch...

I don't even search pricewatch. I use resellerratings and start with the
best.

but
they should observe NewEgg's total devotion to customer service, timeliness,
and 'above board' practices if they want to be competitive on the net.
TRUST is everything on the internet. Then you read a story like yours, and
it makes one 'recoil' from ever even looking elsewhere other than an
'already' trusted vendor [for most of us, that's NewEgg].

NewEgg has its flaws, I have read of them selling *retail* mainboards that
were obviously installed. (They can do this because the box isn't sealed.)
They have sent OEM CPUs that were installed. OEM Memory not packed well in
the box. And, even after reading all of their policies, and questioning
them, they don't clearly say if retail CPUs have a vendor warranty of 30
days or not. Retail memory seems to be fine with them.

Therefore, I bought my mainboard, memory, and CPU (all retail) elsewhere,
all with one year warranties, and it cost me ~$80 more. (I could have
bought
the retail memory from them, but I paid more to get the 1 yr. warranty.)

Seeing many places showing the Zalman in a retail container, I assumed
that
is all they existed. I wish I had noticed that many places spcifically say
'retail', and this place didn't. Regardless, an unsealed OEM box doesn't
give them the right to sell slightly used items as new; they should be
'open
box' items.

 

[ChrisH]

Also, I see the copper bands, that run through the middle of the aluminum
bottom, are not all the same, mostly whitish copper color, plus it has dust.
I hear to use 100% Isopropanol. But isn't 70% fine as long as it is left to
dry for a few minutes?

That's because you are seeing the small airgaps between the individual
fins, but they're too narrow to be of concern. the 70% rubbing alcohol
should not be used, the 30% residue is non-volatile and will remain.
This will significantly reduce the effectiveness of the HS compound.

Does polishing alone remove micro scratches on an otherwise perfectly flat
surface?

No, not if you are talking about real scratches rather than marks.
Scale it up - to polish out the scratches you need to reduce the level
of the surrounding surface down to that of the bottom of the
'scratch'.

If I get the polish, is the alcohol cleaning necessary afterwards?

Possibly, some polishes include beeswax or silicone wax, which will
have the same effect as the 30% residue mentioned above - it fills the
micro scratches instead of HS compound filling them. BTW, use Arctic
Silver 5 instead of the enclosed heatsink compound.

Another thing to remember, 95% of the heat comes from an area just 5mm
dia in the center of the heat-spreader plate on top of the chip. You
only need to worry about getting really good contact in that area.
Something less than perfect will do for the rest.

ChrisH

 

[QZ]

The whitish copper areas are also uneven, probably thermal compound. I don't
have 100% isopropanol. Even after I buy that, it will still be slightly
scratched. Who knows, the way the cardboard is torn, there might have been
pressure put on top of the fan, which can cause irregular funtioning, and
the FanMate's contacts were not protected with a bag. And who knows how many
thermal cycles these things went through.

The bottomline, is I paid for something new I didn't get it. I follow all of
the instructions and treat everything carefully. I expect to receive a
product new and packed carefully, and I maintain it that way.

I e-mailed the vendor and told they will have to pay for return shipping,
and send an advance replacement by same ship method secured by cc, (when
they get the old one back they remove the hold on cc), -or- give me a refund
on HSF and shipping. I told them, if they don't do this, I will dispute the
charges with my cc company.

 

[High Score]

The other 30% is water. Alcohols form azeotropes with water through
hydrogen bonding so it's rather difficult to distill to absolute purity.
Consider 70% to be a quick refine and 90% to be a bit better. Either one
would work to clean heat sinks. Don't use beer though - makes it hard to
see the little pins on the CPU.

-G

 

[Milleron]

The "CPU Magazine" review in the September issue recommends either
Mothers Tear Away polish or NEVR-DULL. "Both of these products
consist of chemically treated, wadded fibers. Simply tear away a
2-inch piece and use it to polish the surface. To polish, you want to
work in circles -- not straight lines -- and it's OK to use a little
[force] at this point."

Thanks for the info. The CPU Magazine requires a sub. to read the entire
article. Do you have any more relevant excerpts?

I see from your posts further down in the thread that you're going to
RMA this heatsink, so I won't go into much detail (that would be a lot
of typing), but they basically start the process by soaking 220 grit
sandpaper in soapy water, placing it flat on the work surface and then
placing the heatsink on the paper. They give it about 15 to-and-fro
strokes, NOT circular strokes, withOUT applying any downward pressure
other than the weight of the heatsink, rotate it 90°, repeat, and
continue until it's been rotated 360°. This is repeated with 400 grit
sandpaper. At 800 grit, they recommend 25 strokes in each direction,
and at 1000 grit, 30-40 strokes, still without any downward pressure.
They then recommend complete cleaning before polishing.

As previously mentioned, the authors DO recommend circular motion with
the polish and do recommend pressure at this step, continuing until
you've achieved a mirror-like surface.

I see both of the products on the web, but not at Home Depot's site. I was
hoping to stop at the local Home Depot and get one of them. Maybe a hardware
store will have it. I don't have a PC right now and time is of the essence.
Plus, shipping is more than product itself.

I guess micro surface scratches are inconsequential, maybe a fraction of a
degree difference, I don't know. Regardless, the principle of it bothers me.
I treat things carefully. The retail box has the HSF suspended in the air of
the plastic bubble, the others that have a plastic piece on the bottom have
to be the OEM. This OEM box had nothing protecting the bottom.

Also, I see the copper bands, that run through the middle of the aluminum
bottom, are not all the same, mostly whitish copper color, plus it has dust.
I hear to use 100% Isopropanol. But isn't 70% fine as long as it is left to
dry for a few minutes?

Does polishing alone remove micro scratches on an otherwise perfectly flat
surface?

Depends entirely on how deep they are. If they are "micro scratches,"
yes, but I'd define a "micro scratch" as one you couldn't see without
magnification. As I mentioned originally, if the scratches are minor,
I'd be inclined to do nothing, and let the Arctic Silver do it's
thing, filling not only the microscopic pits but very small scratches,
as well

If I get the polish, is the alcohol cleaning necessary afterwards?

Most definitely. If there's ANY residue, thermal grease will not be
able to do it's job. There are even reports about fingerprints
interfering with thermal compounds. So, it's best to clean the
surfaces even if you don't polish at all, but it's not critical.
Others in the thread have mentioned the nonvolatile residue that
isopropyl alcohol can leave. That's my experience, too, so I get the
bulk of any debris off CPUs and heatsinks with isopropyl and then get
the alcohol residue off with acetone, which does seem to dry without
leaving any residue behind.
Ron