XP/Vista - installing apps on a common drive

[Terry R.]

On my personal workstation, I have always used a separate drive
partition for data and a separate drive partition for apps, since I have
multiple OS's and to keep partition sizes small. I point each app from
each OS to the same location, so there is only one footprint of each
installed app. If an uninstall is needed (rarely if ever), I just copy
the app folder, uninstall it, then rename the copy back to the original
so all the other OS's have it available.

I was wondering whether anyone dual boots using XP/Vista and has a
separate drive they install apps to that is common to both OS's.

Thanks,

--
Terry R.

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[Richard Urban]

You can do this, but the app must be installed to the exact same location
from within each operating system. Note that uninstalling the app will make
it unusable for "both" operating systems.

 

[Synapse Syndrome]

On my personal workstation, I have always used a separate drive
partition for data and a separate drive partition for apps, since I have
multiple OS's and to keep partition sizes small. I point each app from
each OS to the same location, so there is only one footprint of each
installed app. If an uninstall is needed (rarely if ever), I just copy
the app folder, uninstall it, then rename the copy back to the original
so all the other OS's have it available.

I was wondering whether anyone dual boots using XP/Vista and has a
separate drive they install apps to that is common to both OS's.

Have you never had any problems with what you are doing there? I can think
of large applications, that I have, that have had service packs that have
changed essential registry values, and would not be able to take the update
again from another OS installation.

Also, legacy apps, that make writes to Program Files while being used, are
not installed in Program Files, with Vista.

There are probably other complications that I cannot think of right now, but
basically, why bother with all that hassle when HDD capacities continue to
increase at an exponential rate?

Disregarding media files, just a single (or two for the extra security of
RAID-1) 1TB disk will give the most hardcore multi-booting power user all
the space he/she needs.

ss.

 

[Terry R.]

The date and time was 9/3/2008 8:55 PM, and on a whim, Synapse Syndrome
pounded out on the keyboard:

Have you never had any problems with what you are doing there? I can think
of large applications, that I have, that have had service packs that have
changed essential registry values, and would not be able to take the update
again from another OS installation.

Also, legacy apps, that make writes to Program Files while being used, are
not installed in Program Files, with Vista.

There are probably other complications that I cannot think of right now, but
basically, why bother with all that hassle when HDD capacities continue to
increase at an exponential rate?

Disregarding media files, just a single (or two for the extra security of
RAID-1) 1TB disk will give the most hardcore multi-booting power user all
the space he/she needs.

ss.

I've never had an issue within the OS's. Any SP's will install on each
OS and everything runs fine.

The writes to the Program Files folder sounds like it may prevent this.
I'm not sure at this point which apps do and which don't.

Regardless of HD capacities, it's a waste IMO to install every app in
one OS partition and then waste the same space in another. I agree hard
drives are cheap, but if it doesn't affect an OS, it's easy to do.

On the workstation I'm putting together for someone, I have two 500 gig
drives that I was going to configure w/R1. If I can save 100 gig on
installing games to one drive, it would be worth it.

Thanks for the input, and any further comments would be welcomed.

--
Terry R.

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[Terry R.]

The date and time was 9/3/2008 7:12 PM, and on a whim, Richard Urban
pounded out on the keyboard:

You can do this, but the app must be installed to the exact same location
from within each operating system. Note that uninstalling the app will make
it unusable for "both" operating systems.

As I stated, I prevent the "unusable" by copying the app folder and
pasting it prior to any uninstall. Then after the uninstall, I rename
the pasted folder to the name of the uninstalled folder and everything
works fine.

Is there anything Vista does or not allow to an app folder that XP
doesn't, that you are aware of?

Thanks,

--
Terry R.

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[Synapse Syndrome]

I've never had an issue within the OS's. Any SP's will install on each OS
and everything runs fine.

The writes to the Program Files folder sounds like it may prevent this.
I'm not sure at this point which apps do and which don't.

I still use several applications that do this, although I do not bother
using Vista on anything other than on my HTPC these days. I do use Server
2008 though, which also has UAC (WTF?).

I think this issue would probably be significant if you are using the SET
command to make change locations of Program Files, but if you are simply
choosing another location when installing the application, UAC might not
protect that folder in that way. I doubt they thought that far ahead,
seeing what a mess they made of UAC anyway.

Regardless of HD capacities, it's a waste IMO to install every app in one
OS partition and then waste the same space in another. I agree hard
drives are cheap, but if it doesn't affect an OS, it's easy to do.

On the workstation I'm putting together for someone, I have two 500 gig
drives that I was going to configure w/R1. If I can save 100 gig on
installing games to one drive, it would be worth it.

I suppose game installations are pretty big, but I don't know why anybody
would need to have the games available in multiple operating systems.

The cost of 100GB of HDD capacity is much much less than for the time,
hassle, and possible frustration and failure of sharing the disk space, IMO.

Thanks for the input, and any further comments would be welcomed.

Cheers

ss.

 

[Richard Urban]

Copying the applications folder, and then pasting it in a different install
of Windows, does NOT enable the application to be used under the 2nd version
of Windows.

What about all the files (sent to various locations in the Windows, System32
and account folders - among others) and registry entries that are needed
under "both" operating systems? The only way to get these on the operating
system is to perform an install under both operating systems.

Maybe I don't understand what you are actually doing when you say you are
"copying the app folder and
pasting it prior to any uninstall".

Unless you are speaking about programs designed for Windows 3.11 (all you
need is the application folder for the program to run) what you seem to be
stating will not usually work.

 

[Terry R.]

The date and time was 9/4/2008 6:56 AM, and on a whim, Richard Urban
pounded out on the keyboard:

Copying the applications folder, and then pasting it in a different install
of Windows, does NOT enable the application to be used under the 2nd version
of Windows.

Sure it does. Since each OS is on a separate partition also, the app
folder contains all the same files. So once one OS has deleted the app,
I copy the folder back (the OS that uninstalled it believes it's gone)
and the OS's that have it installed know no different.

What about all the files (sent to various locations in the Windows, System32
and account folders - among others) and registry entries that are needed
under "both" operating systems? The only way to get these on the operating
system is to perform an install under both operating systems.

Yes, I do install each app under each OS. But uninstalling on one OS
doesn't remove it from the other OS's, so the only common thing is the
app folder.

Maybe I don't understand what you are actually doing when you say you are
"copying the app folder and
pasting it prior to any uninstall".

I paste the copy of the app folder I made after the uninstall. That
restores the app folder for the other OS's to use.

Unless you are speaking about programs designed for Windows 3.11 (all you
need is the application folder for the program to run) what you seem to be
stating will not usually work.

I've been doing it for about eight years and never had an issue with
Win9x/Me/W2K/XP (started doing it with W2K).

Is there anything Vista requires that XP doesn't in regards to app
folders? If the apps are not located on C, they're not protected on
Vista, correct? These are the types of things I hope to understand
before doing this.

Thanks again,

--
Terry R.

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[Terry R.]

The date and time was 9/3/2008 9:55 PM, and on a whim, Synapse Syndrome
pounded out on the keyboard:

I still use several applications that do this, although I do not bother
using Vista on anything other than on my HTPC these days. I do use Server
2008 though, which also has UAC (WTF?).

Yes, we don't want all the admins screwing up the system now, do we! ;-)

I think this issue would probably be significant if you are using the SET
command to make change locations of Program Files, but if you are simply
choosing another location when installing the application, UAC might not
protect that folder in that way. I doubt they thought that far ahead,
seeing what a mess they made of UAC anyway.


I suppose game installations are pretty big, but I don't know why anybody
would need to have the games available in multiple operating systems.

True. The DX10 games are the only reason Vista is being considered. XP
is fine for everything else. So as more DX10 games come out, the user
might spend more time in Vista, so having all apps combined will take up
a lot less space.

The cost of 100GB of HDD capacity is much much less than for the time,
hassle, and possible frustration and failure of sharing the disk space, IMO.

You could be right there.

Cheers

ss.

Thanks,

--
Terry R.

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[Richard Urban]

OK

This is the first time that you have stated that you *DO* install the app
under each instance of Windows.

That being the case, if you first copy the main application folder to
another location, uninstall the app from one of the versions of Windows and
then booting up into the alternate version of Windows - you can just paste
the apps folder back to the original location and the program will still
run.

As I said, I was not clear on what you were asking.

 

[+Bob+]

Yes, we don't want all the admins screwing up the system now, do we! ;-)

Good Gawd, is MS really that ignorant?

How does a change like that make it to the retail market without
someone with a clue noticing. Oh... wait... someone with a clue at
MS... yes, I just answered my own question.

Back to the original topic: As long as you shut off UAC and take
ownership of everything on the secondary drive through Vista after
installs, you should be OK. I would do all the Vista installs second
since XP will probably be more tolerant.

One issue might be default user folders since some apps use the
default folder to store settings. That's a different folder in XP vs.
Vista. So, saving your settings/customizations for one OS might or
might not affect the other depending on the application.

 

[Terry R.]

The date and time was 9/5/2008 6:31 PM, and on a whim, +Bob+ pounded out

Good Gawd, is MS really that ignorant?

How does a change like that make it to the retail market without
someone with a clue noticing. Oh... wait... someone with a clue at
MS... yes, I just answered my own question.

Back to the original topic: As long as you shut off UAC and take
ownership of everything on the secondary drive through Vista after
installs, you should be OK. I would do all the Vista installs second
since XP will probably be more tolerant.

One issue might be default user folders since some apps use the
default folder to store settings. That's a different folder in XP vs.
Vista. So, saving your settings/customizations for one OS might or
might not affect the other depending on the application.

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the reply. It doesn't sound like Vista should cause any
issues. The individual program settings is something that happens using
older OS's also, and that doesn't cause any grief. I guess UAC will be
the determining factor, and if necessary I will disable it. I
appreciate the feedback.

Thanks again,

--
Terry R.

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[+Bob+]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the reply. It doesn't sound like Vista should cause any
issues. The individual program settings is something that happens using
older OS's also, and that doesn't cause any grief. I guess UAC will be
the determining factor, and if necessary I will disable it. I
appreciate the feedback.

Thanks again,

Disable UAC even if it isn't a problem for this

Watch out for the ownership issue too. I don't know what problems it
will cause with two hard drives, but running programs from a network
drive you get some real oddities. It also causes issues even on the C:
drive since you don't own the OS/program files by default in Vista in
most cases (the system does). If you don't own the files in the dual
install (those installed under XP) it may hiccup.

I would suggest taking ownership of the entire drive once the installs
are complete. I don't know if having the same user/pass will help with
the dual OS boot situation as I suspect it will generate unique
identifiers for the objects - but XP is likely to be more forgiving
about that.

 

[Terry R.]

The date and time was 9/8/2008 4:28 PM, and on a whim, +Bob+ pounded out

Disable UAC even if it isn't a problem for this

Watch out for the ownership issue too. I don't know what problems it
will cause with two hard drives, but running programs from a network
drive you get some real oddities. It also causes issues even on the C:
drive since you don't own the OS/program files by default in Vista in
most cases (the system does). If you don't own the files in the dual
install (those installed under XP) it may hiccup.

I would suggest taking ownership of the entire drive once the installs
are complete. I don't know if having the same user/pass will help with
the dual OS boot situation as I suspect it will generate unique
identifiers for the objects - but XP is likely to be more forgiving
about that.

I thought the ownership issue of the Program Files folder was only on
the C: drive, and installing to another location circumvented that. All
Vista workstations that I've worked on only had a C: drive (basically
limited to smaller companies that just purchased new computers with it
installed and didn't know they could get XP instead). I'll watch for
that in any case.

Thanks again,

--
Terry R.

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