XP, validation, and service packs

[Guest]

The validation tool on the MS "how to tell" webpage says my Windows xp is not
genuine. I was under the impression that pirated software would not accept
service packs, but I have been able to update to sp2 without trouble. Can
anyone explain how non valid software will allow updates?

A formerly trusted person provided this software to more than a dozen
people. We feel like chumps now for not knowing what he was doing, but we
certainly had no intention of acting dishonestly. We all intend to obtain
valid products. We want to do what is right, but with the number of copies we
need, we surely do need to do it as cost effectively as possible. Any
suggestions?

Thanks for helping us understand and make this right.

Aprilynm

 

[Peter]

Microsoft believed that, as SP2 was so important, that it was wiser to allow
it to install on any WinXP installation. Other updates and hotfixes wont
though.

 

[Yves Leclerc]

The validation tool os not "fool-proof" and you will get fake failures
often.

 

[kurttrail]

The validation tool on the MS "how to tell" webpage says my Windows
xp is not genuine. I was under the impression that pirated software
would not accept service packs, but I have been able to update to sp2
without trouble. Can anyone explain how non valid software will allow
updates?

MS only blocked certain KNOWN pirated VL keys. As long as you weren't
using one of those, updates and service packs work just the same as
Geniune MS OS.

A formerly trusted person provided this software to more than a dozen
people. We feel like chumps now for not knowing what he was doing,
but we certainly had no intention of acting dishonestly.

How much did you pay him for XP?

We all
intend to obtain valid products. We want to do what is right, but
with the number of copies we need, we surely do need to do it as cost
effectively as possible. Any suggestions?

Thanks for helping us understand and make this right.

Aprilynm

OEM copies of XP are the cheapest. Use pricegrabber.com to compare
prices.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[kurttrail]

Microsoft believed that, as SP2 was so important, that it was wiser
to allow it to install on any WinXP installation. Other updates and
hotfixes wont though.

Total horse-hockey! MS expanded on the list of blocked PKs with SP2
compared to SP1.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Peter]

Sorry, but that was posted many times in the old SP2 privatenews by MVP's no
less.

 

[Guest]

I found a copy of "his" licenses on his former computer. I entered one of
them into a search engine and apparently it is from "Devil's Own." So I
don't believe there is any way that it can be legal software. I would have
thought that such info was known to MS, too. The person responsible has lost
his employment and is facing proper action from authority.

We just didn't understand how the softare we have can be bad and still
update properly. Thank you for explaining. We will now get to work making our
end of thigns right.

Appreciate the help. Have a nice weekend.

 

[kurttrail]

Sorry, but that was posted many times in the old SP2 privatenews by
MVP's no less.

It was also written in the mainstream tech press to, so don't be too
hard on the MVPs. MS later clarified their position, but many only
heard the first erroneous reports.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

It sounds like none of you were dishonest so nothing to worry about..
This link may help you and the others becoming legitimate:
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/invalpk.htm

 

[Torgeir Bakken \(MVP\)]

Total horse-hockey! MS expanded on the list of blocked PKs with SP2
compared to SP1.

Hi

No, MS did not. SP2 blocks the exact same PKs as in SP1, no more,
no less.

From: "Gary Schare [MS]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Clarifying SP2 piracy policy
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:24:52 -0700
Message-ID: <#[email protected]>
Newsgroups: microsoft.private.xpsp2.security,microsoft.private.xpsp2.general

<quote>
There have been a number of discussions on this newsgroup regarding whether
SP2 will install on non-genuine (aka "pirated") versions of Windows. Here is
the official Microsoft position on this topic:

We expect that nearly all Windows XP users, running genuine or pirated
Windows, will have access to the security technologies in SP2. The same
users that were blocked from installing SP1 - those that have used a small
set of legacy pirated product keys - will be blocked from installing SP2. We
believe that there are very few systems in use today that use these keys --
in other words, the pirates have moved on to other keys which we are not
blocking.

So how do we charaterize our policy?

We want to make sure that the broadest number of people can install SP2.
The nature of malicious attacks on computer users is constantly changing and
we will continue to evaluate how we deal with security updates for pirated
versions of Windows to best protect our genuine Windows customers.

Thanks,

Gary Schare
Microsoft
</quote>

 

[kurttrail]

Total horse-hockey! MS expanded on the list of blocked PKs with SP2
compared to SP1.

Hi

No, MS did not. SP2 blocks the exact same PKs as in SP1, no more,
no less.

From: "Gary Schare [MS]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Clarifying SP2 piracy policy
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:24:52 -0700
Message-ID: <#[email protected]>
Newsgroups:
microsoft.private.xpsp2.security,microsoft.private.xpsp2.general
<quote>
There have been a number of discussions on this newsgroup regarding
whether SP2 will install on non-genuine (aka "pirated") versions of
Windows. Here is the official Microsoft position on this topic:

We expect that nearly all Windows XP users, running genuine or pirated
Windows, will have access to the security technologies in SP2. The
same users that were blocked from installing SP1 - those that have
used a small set of legacy pirated product keys - will be blocked
from installing SP2. We believe that there are very few systems in
use today that use these keys -- in other words, the pirates have
moved on to other keys which we are not blocking.

So how do we charaterize our policy?

We want to make sure that the broadest number of people can install
SP2. The nature of malicious attacks on computer users is constantly
changing and we will continue to evaluate how we deal with security
updates for pirated versions of Windows to best protect our genuine
Windows customers.
Thanks,

Gary Schare
Microsoft
</quote>

http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0406.html#4

MS and its employees have changed their tune so often about this, who
really knows what to believe.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;883254

Something changed with SP2 enough to warrant a new KB article about it.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Torgeir Bakken \(MVP\)]

Peter wrote:

Microsoft believed that, as SP2 was so important, that it was wiser
to allow it to install on any WinXP installation. Other updates and
hotfixes wont though.

Total horse-hockey! MS expanded on the list of blocked PKs with SP2
compared to SP1.

No, MS did not. SP2 blocks the exact same PKs as in SP1, no more,
no less.

From: "Gary Schare [MS]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Clarifying SP2 piracy policy
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:24:52 -0700
Message-ID: <#[email protected]>
Newsgroups:
microsoft.private.xpsp2.security,microsoft.private.xpsp2.general
<quote>
There have been a number of discussions on this newsgroup regarding
whether SP2 will install on non-genuine (aka "pirated") versions of
Windows. Here is the official Microsoft position on this topic:

We expect that nearly all Windows XP users, running genuine or pirated
Windows, will have access to the security technologies in SP2. The
same users that were blocked from installing SP1 - those that have
used a small set of legacy pirated product keys - will be blocked
from installing SP2. We believe that there are very few systems in
use today that use these keys -- in other words, the pirates have
moved on to other keys which we are not blocking.

So how do we charaterize our policy?

We want to make sure that the broadest number of people can install
SP2. The nature of malicious attacks on computer users is constantly
changing and we will continue to evaluate how we deal with security
updates for pirated versions of Windows to best protect our genuine
Windows customers.
Thanks,

Gary Schare
Microsoft
</quote>

http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0406.html#4

MS and its employees have changed their tune so often about this,
who really knows what to believe.

Trust me, the statement from Gary Schare is correct. In the initial
phases of the SP2 development, I think there was a plan to expand
the list of blocked PKs, and that plan was referred by the media.
Then MS pulled that plan, choosing to go back to only using the SP1
list. This situation created the confusion about this issue.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;883254

Something changed with SP2 enough to warrant a new KB article
about it.

Nothing in the KB indicates that the blocking list is different from
SP1.

It looks like that one is to document an installation "error" message
that is SP2 specific (ref. the URL address www.howtotell.com/xpsp2
in the message):

<quote>
The product key used to install Microsoft Windows may not be
valid. For more information about why you have received this
error message, and steps you can take to resolve this issue
visit www.howtotell.com/xpsp2.
</quote>

 

[kurttrail]

kurttrail wrote:

Peter wrote:

Microsoft believed that, as SP2 was so important, that it was
wiser to allow it to install on any WinXP installation. Other
updates and hotfixes wont though.

Total horse-hockey! MS expanded on the list of blocked PKs with
SP2 compared to SP1.


No, MS did not. SP2 blocks the exact same PKs as in SP1, no more,
no less.

From: "Gary Schare [MS]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Clarifying SP2 piracy policy
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:24:52 -0700
Message-ID:
<#[email protected]>
Newsgroups:
microsoft.private.xpsp2.security,microsoft.private.xpsp2.general
<quote> There have been a number of discussions on this newsgroup
regarding
whether SP2 will install on non-genuine (aka "pirated") versions of
Windows. Here is the official Microsoft position on this topic:

We expect that nearly all Windows XP users, running genuine or
pirated Windows, will have access to the security technologies in
SP2. The same users that were blocked from installing SP1 - those
that have used a small set of legacy pirated product keys - will be
blocked from installing SP2. We believe that there are very few
systems in use today that use these keys -- in other words, the
pirates have moved on to other keys which we are not blocking.

So how do we charaterize our policy?

We want to make sure that the broadest number of people can install
SP2. The nature of malicious attacks on computer users is constantly
changing and we will continue to evaluate how we deal with security
updates for pirated versions of Windows to best protect our genuine
Windows customers.
Thanks,

Gary Schare
Microsoft
</quote>

http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0406.html#4

MS and its employees have changed their tune so often about this,
who really knows what to believe.

Trust me, the statement from Gary Schare is correct. In the initial
phases of the SP2 development, I think there was a plan to expand
the list of blocked PKs, and that plan was referred by the media.
Then MS pulled that plan, choosing to go back to only using the SP1
list. This situation created the confusion about this issue.

First a MS employee, Barry Goffe, said "We haven't explicitly done
anything to SP2 to exclude it from pirated copies." Which basically is
what you Gary says.

Then MS backed off of that, and then backs off the back off.

I'm sorry, but I don't know what to believe, except that MS created a
great deal of confusion. So I don't readily accept anything said at
this point.

Nothing in the KB indicates that the blocking list is different from
SP1.

No it doesn't, but it shows that there is some change from what happens
under SP2, than what happened under SP1.

<quote>
APPLIES TO
..Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 (SP2)
..Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition Service Pack 2 (SP2)
..Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition Service Pack 2 (SP2)
..Microsoft Windows XP Tablet PC Edition Service Pack 2 (SP2)
</quote>

As you can see that this only applies to SP2.

So there is some change in the way SP2 handles pirated copies.

It looks like that one is to document an installation "error" message
that is SP2 specific (ref. the URL address www.howtotell.com/xpsp2
in the message):

<quote>
The product key used to install Microsoft Windows may not be
valid. For more information about why you have received this
error message, and steps you can take to resolve this issue
visit www.howtotell.com/xpsp2.
</quote>

I trust you, Torgeir. Microsoft, and what their employees are directed
to say, is another matter entirely.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Torgeir Bakken \(MVP\)]

Torgeir Bakken (MVP) wrote:
kurttrail wrote:
Peter wrote:

Microsoft believed that, as SP2 was so important, that it was
wiser to allow it to install on any WinXP installation. Other
updates and hotfixes wont though.

Total horse-hockey! MS expanded on the list of blocked PKs with
SP2 compared to SP1.


No, MS did not. SP2 blocks the exact same PKs as in SP1, no more,
no less.

From: "Gary Schare [MS]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Clarifying SP2 piracy policy
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:24:52 -0700
Message-ID:
<#[email protected]>
Newsgroups:
microsoft.private.xpsp2.security,microsoft.private.xpsp2.general
<quote> There have been a number of discussions on this newsgroup
regarding
whether SP2 will install on non-genuine (aka "pirated") versions of
Windows. Here is the official Microsoft position on this topic:

We expect that nearly all Windows XP users, running genuine or
pirated Windows, will have access to the security technologies in
SP2. The same users that were blocked from installing SP1 - those
that have used a small set of legacy pirated product keys - will be
blocked from installing SP2. We believe that there are very few
systems in use today that use these keys -- in other words, the
pirates have moved on to other keys which we are not blocking.

So how do we charaterize our policy?

We want to make sure that the broadest number of people can install
SP2. The nature of malicious attacks on computer users is constantly
changing and we will continue to evaluate how we deal with security
updates for pirated versions of Windows to best protect our genuine
Windows customers.
Thanks,

Gary Schare
Microsoft
</quote>


http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0406.html#4

MS and its employees have changed their tune so often about this,
who really knows what to believe.

Trust me, the statement from Gary Schare is correct. In the initial
phases of the SP2 development, I think there was a plan to expand
the list of blocked PKs, and that plan was referred by the media.
Then MS pulled that plan, choosing to go back to only using the SP1
list. This situation created the confusion about this issue.

First a MS employee, Barry Goffe, said "We haven't explicitly done
anything to SP2 to exclude it from pirated copies." Which basically is
what you Gary says.

Then MS backed off of that, and then backs off the back off.

I'm sorry, but I don't know what to believe, except that MS created a
great deal of confusion. So I don't readily accept anything said at
this point.

Nothing in the KB indicates that the blocking list is different from
SP1.

No it doesn't, but it shows that there is some change from what happens
under SP2, than what happened under SP1.

<quote>
APPLIES TO
.Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 (SP2)
.Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition Service Pack 2 (SP2)
.Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition Service Pack 2 (SP2)
.Microsoft Windows XP Tablet PC Edition Service Pack 2 (SP2)
</quote>

As you can see that this only applies to SP2.

So there is some change in the way SP2 handles pirated copies.

As far as I know, only the wording of the "error" message that is
presented to the user.

As I stated in my previous post, it looks like the KB article is
created to document the new wording of the message you get when having
a blocked PK. That is why the article applies to SP2 only, because the
text in the message is not the same as you get for an SP1 installation.

For all other information in the KB article, nothing in it indicates
any change to the way SP2 handles pirated copies compared to earlier
versions of WinXP.