Wireless WPA-PSK

B

Barb Bowman

can you confirm that you have an issue if you using WPA-AES or WPA2
as well as WPA-TKIP?



At present I think I have the latest according to Intels site but if
anything they are even worse :(

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/fil...32-bit+version&lang=eng&strOSs=153&submit=Go!
(generic versions at the above)

Currently the copy loaded (and not working at all) is

NETw4v32.sys 11.5.0.32 dated 26/09/2007 13:12, 2,251,776 bytes
NETw4c32.dll 11.5.0.0
NETw4r32.dll 11.5.0.0

And also the Toshiba customised ones from the website below (same
version nos)
http://aps2.toshiba-tro.de/wlan/?page=downloads
(these are evidently customised to work with Toshiba portables and
people using the generic Intel ones have apparently run into trouble
in the past - particularly when SP1 came out)

I have tried in addition the only hotfix, 935222 that looked even
vaguely relevant (although it was actually for WPA with AES encryption
I thought it was worth a punt). The system would work sometimes and if
it connected would be stable until suspend/WiFi power down. Upgrading
to the latest Intel 3945 drivers if anything made it worse.

There seems to be a distinct shortage of info in the knowledge base
about these issues despite there being plenty of folk banging their
heads against this particular Vista brick wall. The 3Com 3CWDR100A is
on the latest firmware available 2.06T13 dated Apr 25 2007 (so not
really very recent). No mention of Vista WiFi woes on their website :(

A search on this router model number finds someone else reporting the
exact same symptoms with a Sony portable.

Thanks for your interest. Any suggestions on what to try next
appreciated. I have run out of ideas.

Regards,
Martin Brown
Click to expand...
--

Barb Bowman
MS-MVP
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
 
B

Barb Bowman

if it were me, I'd want to use the best security available, WPA2. so
buying a new router would be MY first choice. YMMV.

Thanks for your help...

I got an answer from Zyxel... The version of software appears to be a
customised version made for TPG.

TPG does not have an updated version of the firmware. The only options left:
1- Upgrade to the official version provided by Zyxel, taking the risk that
it might not be compatible with TPG's network.
2- Buy a new router
3- Go back to XP

Thanks.
Click to expand...
--

Barb Bowman
MS-MVP
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
 
M

Martin Brown

can you confirm that you have an issue if you using WPA-AES or WPA2
as well as WPA-TKIP?
Click to expand...

Not at present. My home router doesn't support either AES encryption
or WPA2.

And I have a hunch that the problem I am seeing is restricted to WPA-
PSK in combination with TKIP, the Intel 3945 chipset and certain
models of router. I plan to test it against a much more sophisticated
network router on Friday with a bit of luck. I found another set of
newer "custom" Toshiba drivers on their support page, nominally Intel
11.5.032 but they turn out to be bitwise identical to the Intel
generics but with a more recent misleading external timestamp (at
least the binary executable files do, some of the ancillary packaging
files are different).

BTW I have found at least two distinct versions of netw4v32.sys
11.5.0.32 floating around. One has 16bit CRC of A38C (Toshiba/Intel
ver) and the other has C5DB, (MS hotfix version?) (the netw4c32.dll
and netw4r32.dll are identical in all three versions with CRCs 7E3E
and 92FF respectively).

Toshibas "custom" but bitwise identical version of 11.5.0.32 has been
touched to 4 Dec 2008 12:45 (with a creation datestamp of 26/09/2007
04:12) rather than 26/09/2007 13:12 for the Intel generic. This is
painful.

And I thought Vista was supposed to eliminate DLL hell !!!

Regards,
Martin Brown
 
B

Barb Bowman

If it were me, I'd replace the router and use the strongest
available security - WPA2.

We've seen this WPA scenario before with the Intel 3945 NIC. I also
sent the scenario on to some folks at Microsoft who are involved in
driver certification. That was some time ago. I don't see that Intel
has released drivers since then.

Not much more I can offer...

Not at present. My home router doesn't support either AES encryption
or WPA2.

And I have a hunch that the problem I am seeing is restricted to WPA-
PSK in combination with TKIP, the Intel 3945 chipset and certain
models of router. I plan to test it against a much more sophisticated
network router on Friday with a bit of luck. I found another set of
newer "custom" Toshiba drivers on their support page, nominally Intel
11.5.032 but they turn out to be bitwise identical to the Intel
generics but with a more recent misleading external timestamp (at
least the binary executable files do, some of the ancillary packaging
files are different).

BTW I have found at least two distinct versions of netw4v32.sys
11.5.0.32 floating around. One has 16bit CRC of A38C (Toshiba/Intel
ver) and the other has C5DB, (MS hotfix version?) (the netw4c32.dll
and netw4r32.dll are identical in all three versions with CRCs 7E3E
and 92FF respectively).

Toshibas "custom" but bitwise identical version of 11.5.0.32 has been
touched to 4 Dec 2008 12:45 (with a creation datestamp of 26/09/2007
04:12) rather than 26/09/2007 13:12 for the Intel generic. This is
painful.

And I thought Vista was supposed to eliminate DLL hell !!!

Regards,
Martin Brown
Click to expand...
--

Barb Bowman
MS-MVP
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
 
M

Martin Brown

If it were me, I'd replace the router and use the strongest
available security - WPA2.
Click to expand...

Thanks. That is probably what I will end up doing.
But I don't like unsolved technical problems - I normally expect to be
able to make this stuff work.
We've seen this WPA scenario before with the Intel 3945 NIC. I also
sent the scenario on to some folks at Microsoft who are involved in
driver certification. That was some time ago. I don't see that Intel
has released drivers since then.
Click to expand...

One thing that did annoy me about the "newer" 3945 Vista driver
offering I found on the Toshiba support site was that their installer
was not correctly digitally signed and gave the worst possible
security warning about do you really trust this unsigned software.
IMHO it is extremely unprofessional for major corporate players like
Toshiba to be distributing driver software in a form where to install
it you have to ignore and bypass what should be critical security
warnings about possibly dodgy executables. The SYS & DLL content
seemed bitwise identical to generic Intel but with tweaked timestamps.

It makes a mockery of Vista's supposedly improved security if major
players distribute their Vista driver support code in a form where you
have to ignore these warnings just to install them !
Not much more I can offer...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestions. If I ever do get it to work I will post
how it was acheived.

Cheers,
Martin Brown
 
B

Barb Bowman

They are supposed to provide signed drivers. Do you have a link to
these unsigned drivers that I can pass on to Microsoft?

One thing that did annoy me about the "newer" 3945 Vista driver
offering I found on the Toshiba support site was that their installer
was not correctly digitally signed and gave the worst possible
security warning about do you really trust this unsigned software.
IMHO it is extremely unprofessional for major corporate players like
Toshiba to be distributing driver software in a form where to install
it you have to ignore and bypass what should be critical security
warnings about possibly dodgy executables. The SYS & DLL content
seemed bitwise identical to generic Intel but with tweaked timestamps.
Click to expand...
--

Barb Bowman
MS-MVP
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
 
G

gaia

Pablo

I'm also with TPG. Do you know from where to download the latest official
version of the firmware provided by Zyxel?
---------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for your help...

I got an answer from Zyxel... The version of software appears to be a
customised version made for TPG.

TPG does not have an updated version of the firmware. The only options left:
1- Upgrade to the official version provided by Zyxel, taking the risk that
it might not be compatible with TPG's network.
2- Buy a new router
3- Go back to XP

Thanks.
 
M

Martin Brown

They are supposed to provide signed drivers. Do you have a link to
these unsigned drivers that I can pass on to Microsoft?
Click to expand...

Certainly. The driver binaries themselves are correctly digitally
signed (and they are bit for bit identical with the generic Intel
11.5.0.32), but the installer program that ReadMe.txt tells you to
run, IMDGInst.exe is not. The link is:

http://support1.toshiba-tro.de/tools/updates/intel-wlan/wlan-intel-3945-4965-v115032-vista32.zip

Note that the date stamps on the exterior of these binaries are all
04/12/2007 12:45 even though their true creation date is 26/09/2007.
It is possible that its install does other things to the registry that
makes it Toshiba specific. They did not solve my problem :(

Whilst you are talking Microsoft you could perhaps pass on my
observation that when fighting with defective drivers it is extremely
annoying to find files with identical binary content and different
datestamps, identical claimed version numbers with different binary
content and no way at the point of choosing from the "let me pick from
a list" offered in System : Update Driver to tell them apart.

I now have multiple different versions of the driver software
available in the listbox and all bar the very oldest are labelled
"Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection (Intel)". It reminds
me of Zork. You are in a maze of twisty little passages all alike...
hardly any way to configure an operating system.

At the very least it should be possible to distinguish their version
numbers, size and dates immediately by hovering over the name (it
works like this in Explorer for files so it should not be beyond the
wit of man to make it work here where it is much more important to
have confidence that you are picking the version that you intend). In
an idea world the date, version and 16bit CRC should be appended to
the driver title so that one can have certainty that the file version
really is the right one.

I don't trust the version stamps any more I have seen different
binaries with the same claimed version.

Regards,
Martin Brown
 
M

Martin Brown

I've passed this all on to Microsoft.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your interest. I wish I believed it would make a
difference :(

If my tame networking guru finds anything useful tomorrow I will
update the thread, but otherwise the only thing I can conclude is if
you want to use Vista WPA-PSK avoid 3com routers and the Intel x945
WiFi chipsets. There is a parallel thread on the Toshiba support forum
(with as yet no replies at all).

http://forums.computers.toshiba-europe.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=32045&tstart=0

I do not believe that either Toshiba or 3Com are unaware of this
problem with Vista - they choose to ignore it. There are plenty of
indications of similar problems with this chipset & router combination
in the archives for 2006/7.

Regards,
Martin Brown

PS it would be worth adding to this thread a list of any other models
and brands of router that do not work correctly with Vista WPA-PSK. A
name and shame policy might just get something done about these
obvious defects. And it will give people with dodgy Vista router/
chipset combinations a sporting chance of finding this thread in
Google.
 
S

Serg C

Just wanted to respond to Barb's comment about replacing the router.

The fact is that the same router ( I've got an oldie SMC2804WBRP-G) has
exactly the same problem WPA-PSK TIKP --> timeout on Vista Home Premium but
.... it works just fine with XP Professional SP2! Again, same WPA-PSK TIKP on
XP SP2 works.
So, the problem is not the old router but Vista being 'too advanced' so it's
R&D cannot keep up with XP SP2 :)

Serg C
 
M

Martin Brown

FWIW, my contact at MS happens to be the person that works directly
with vendors on driver issues. I have known him for a few years and
in the past, I've been successful with escalating driver issues.
Click to expand...

Just for the record I tested it on Friday and the same portable works
perfectly with WPA2. So a new router is now by far the simplest and
cheapest solution. However, it is clear that something is seriously
wrong with WPA-PSK & TKIP in combination with some models of router
and Vista.

I think it is time they at least fessed up to this on the MSKB.

Regards,
Martin Brown
 
S

Sven Pran

FWIW, my contact at MS happens to be the person that works directly
with vendors on driver issues. I have known him for a few years and
in the past, I've been successful with escalating driver issues.
Click to expand...

Just for the record I tested it on Friday and the same portable works
perfectly with WPA2. So a new router is now by far the simplest and
cheapest solution. However, it is clear that something is seriously
wrong with WPA-PSK & TKIP in combination with some models of router
and Vista.

I think it is time they at least fessed up to this on the MSKB.

I don't know if this is relevant but I have discovered that D-Link access
points in general seem to have a problem with WPA-PSK unless a feature for
changing some kind of a "group key update" at regular intervals is disabled
in the router. More specifically I have suffered from this problem with my
D-Link DWL-G810 connected to my Jensen AL-2954 router.

Typical symptoms are that you establish wireless connection successfully but
it drops after say 30 seconds and will not reconect.

regards Sven
 
B

Barb Bowman

I doubt it is true that D-Link access points "in general" have a
problem. The DWL-G810 is end of life. The last update was November
2005.
http://support.dlink.com/products/view.asp?productid=DWL-G810



I don't know if this is relevant but I have discovered that D-Link access
points in general seem to have a problem with WPA-PSK unless a feature for
changing some kind of a "group key update" at regular intervals is disabled
in the router. More specifically I have suffered from this problem with my
D-Link DWL-G810 connected to my Jensen AL-2954 router.

Typical symptoms are that you establish wireless connection successfully but
it drops after say 30 seconds and will not reconect.
Click to expand...
--

Barb Bowman
MS-MVP
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
 
B

Barb Bowman

The problem is the Intel driver.

Just for the record I tested it on Friday and the same portable works
perfectly with WPA2. So a new router is now by far the simplest and
cheapest solution. However, it is clear that something is seriously
wrong with WPA-PSK & TKIP in combination with some models of router
and Vista.

I think it is time they at least fessed up to this on the MSKB.
Click to expand...
--

Barb Bowman
MS-MVP
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
 
G

gaia

Ok, looks like replacing the router is the way to go.

I have 2 other Linksys WAP54G wireless APs throughout the house and I'm very
happy with them, so I think that I'd like to get a Linksys router to replace
the Zyxel.

My home network is ADSL2+ with 1* wired desktop, 2 * Lenovo X300, 1* Lenovo
T61, 1 * Lenovo T60 & a Playstation 3. All of the computers have gigabit
ethernet and all of the Lenovos except the T60 have the Intel 4965 abgn
wireless so I'm looking for a 802.11n router.

Could someone pls suggest which Linksys wireless router model to get?
---------------------------------------------------------------
it is really time for you to replace that ZyXel router then.


Barb

On my Zyxel router no support for WPA2 or AES. It's either WEP (which does
work) or WPA-TKIP (which worked in the past but doesn't now).
Click to expand...
--

Barb Bowman
MS-MVP
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
 
M

Martin Brown

I don't know if this is relevant but I have discovered that D-Link access
points in general seem to have a problem with WPA-PSK unless a feature for
changing some kind of a "group key update" at regular intervals is disabled
in the router. More specifically I have suffered from this problem with my
D-Link DWL-G810 connected to my Jensen AL-2954 router.

Typical symptoms are that you establish wireless connection successfully but
it drops after say 30 seconds and will not reconect.
Click to expand...

I think there are a host of problems with Vista & WPA-PSK this one can
be just added to the list. What you have described sounds like it
might compromise security if the WPA crypto keys remain static (much
like WEP).

The older 3Com routers do not even get past the initial crypto key
exchange stage with Vista & Intel 3945 chipset unless the wind is
blowing in the right direction. The latest drivers are actually worse!
After applying SP1 what was a pretty hopeless WiFi connectivity rate
(working about 1:20) became totally impossible and unusable.

I have a new Linksys router on order and will test to see if it has
the same problems with WPA-PSK & TKIP before enabling it for WPA2. I
expect I already know the answer.

Regards,
Martin Brown
 
M

Martin Brown

The problem is the Intel driver.
Click to expand...

This is less clear. I now have a new Linksys WAG325N router and it
will connect to the problem Vista machine even using WPA-PSK & TKIP
(at least according to the settings displayed). So it looks like I had
a particularly unfortunate combination and the 3com firmware for WPA
in the 3CRWDR100A series is at least a part of the problem.

One or possibly both of the 3com router and the Intel driver must be
at fault, but since I have now seen a router that will work OK on this
protocol I am inclined to say that there is most likely a fault in the
3com router firmware.

Of course the new router will not talk over WiFi to my older XP
machine so network defect irritation number is conserved :(

Regards,
Martin Brown
 

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