Windows Pagefile Questions.

[Axel Brotten]

Hello all. I have a few questions regarding Swapfiles. First, however here
is my configuration:

1) Windows XP Pro (SP3), 3.0 GHZ AMD CPU,
2) 1GB Ram,
3) 3 Hard Drives:
Drive C (100GB Programs only - no data),
Drive d (250GB IDE 7200 RPM) data and app installation points, Web
and SQL Data,
Drive E (500 GB Sata 7200 RPM) Data, SQL Log files and edited
Video Files,
4) Swapfiles:
Drive C: 64mb, dump file only,
Drive D: 1.5 GB
Drive E: 1.5 GB

So here are my queries:

1) Does Windows use the swapfile on a particular drive based on editing
(data storage, copy etc). For example, if I am editing say a video file on
drive D, will Windows use the Swapfile on that drive to store page fault
data? This would seem to be rather foolish as the data is being edited on
the same drive as that swapfile.
2) How can I tell Windows to use the Swapfile on a particular drive (say
Drive E first or can one?
3) Is there a better way to configure the pagefiles?

I ask these questions, because I've noticed at several points during the day
that the disk drive light flashes like a banshee on cocaine. Eventually
(typically after about a minute or so) it settles down. This happens
primarily when I edit video files. I understand an realize that editing
video files uses a lot of ram and swapfile, so I don't think we need to beat
that to death. I've even upped ram to 2BG - but the same thing happens. The
same occurs on a different system (similar in config, except it has dual
Pentiums with 4 2 gb ram). So it seems that Windows is going to use the
swapfile anyway (which of course we all know).

I realize that I can configure Perfom to trap and record all this activity,
but what is the reality of that data being accurate? I mean, Perfmon will of
course require ram (and swapfile) so would those pieces of data (in
particular evaluating the Deltas) be that accurate.

So I rambled on, just want to be as complete as I can.

Thanks.

 

[Pegasus [MVP]]

Hello all. I have a few questions regarding Swapfiles. First, however here
is my configuration:

1) Windows XP Pro (SP3), 3.0 GHZ AMD CPU,
2) 1GB Ram,
3) 3 Hard Drives:
Drive C (100GB Programs only - no data),
Drive d (250GB IDE 7200 RPM) data and app installation points,
Web and SQL Data,
Drive E (500 GB Sata 7200 RPM) Data, SQL Log files and edited
Video Files,
4) Swapfiles:
Drive C: 64mb, dump file only,
Drive D: 1.5 GB
Drive E: 1.5 GB

So here are my queries:

1) Does Windows use the swapfile on a particular drive based on editing
(data storage, copy etc). For example, if I am editing say a video file on
drive D, will Windows use the Swapfile on that drive to store page fault
data? This would seem to be rather foolish as the data is being edited on
the same drive as that swapfile.
2) How can I tell Windows to use the Swapfile on a particular drive (say
Drive E first or can one?
3) Is there a better way to configure the pagefiles?

I ask these questions, because I've noticed at several points during the
day that the disk drive light flashes like a banshee on cocaine.
Eventually (typically after about a minute or so) it settles down. This
happens primarily when I edit video files. I understand an realize that
editing video files uses a lot of ram and swapfile, so I don't think we
need to beat that to death. I've even upped ram to 2BG - but the same
thing happens. The same occurs on a different system (similar in config,
except it has dual Pentiums with 4 2 gb ram). So it seems that Windows is
going to use the swapfile anyway (which of course we all know).

I realize that I can configure Perfom to trap and record all this
activity, but what is the reality of that data being accurate? I mean,
Perfmon will of course require ram (and swapfile) so would those pieces of
data (in particular evaluating the Deltas) be that accurate.

So I rambled on, just want to be as complete as I can.

Thanks.

You cannot tell Windows how to use its paging file. Where your source file
resides is rather irrelevant because the paging file is used to dump data
from RAM to disk, not from a disk file back to a disk file. In other words,
data always has to be read into RAM first. The destination for the paging
operation will then become irrelevant.

Most sound and video editing programs let you designate a specific folder
for their temporary files (which can be huge). Check the settings on your
own video editing application, then adjust them to suit your machine. Some
people go as far as creating a RAM drive for this purpose. Others suggest
that the disk caching mechanism built into Windows is so advanced that using
a RAM drive does not result in an improvement.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Hello all. I have a few questions regarding Swapfiles. First, however here
is my configuration:

1) Windows XP Pro (SP3), 3.0 GHZ AMD CPU,
2) 1GB Ram,
3) 3 Hard Drives:
Drive C (100GB Programs only - no data),
Drive d (250GB IDE 7200 RPM) data and app installation points, Web
and SQL Data,
Drive E (500 GB Sata 7200 RPM) Data, SQL Log files and edited
Video Files,
4) Swapfiles:
Drive C: 64mb, dump file only,
Drive D: 1.5 GB
Drive E: 1.5 GB

So here are my queries:

1) Does Windows use the swapfile on a particular drive based on editing
(data storage, copy etc). For example, if I am editing say a video file on
drive D, will Windows use the Swapfile on that drive to store page fault
data? This would seem to be rather foolish as the data is being edited on
the same drive as that swapfile.

It does what it wants to and you can't control it.

2) How can I tell Windows to use the Swapfile on a particular drive (say
Drive E first or can one?
3) Is there a better way to configure the pagefiles?

Yes. You should have a single page file and it should be on drive C:.
Putting any part of it on other partitions puts the page file farther
from the other data on the drive, so the drive heads have to travel
farther to get to and from the page file. That will slow you down
rather than improve performance.

However, how much it slows you down depends on how much the page file
is used, and that depends on how much RAM you have. The more RAM, the
less page file use, and for many people these days, the difference in
performance is so slight as to be unnoticeable.

And why do you have partitions D: and E:? It sounds like they contain
much the same sort of thing and there is likely no good reason to have
two such partitions, rather than one.

I ask these questions, because I've noticed at several points during the day
that the disk drive light flashes like a banshee on cocaine. Eventually
(typically after about a minute or so) it settles down. This happens
primarily when I edit video files. I understand an realize that editing
video files uses a lot of ram and swapfile, so I don't think we need to beat
that to death. I've even upped ram to 2BG - but the same thing happens. The
same occurs on a different system (similar in config, except it has dual
Pentiums with 4 2 gb ram). So it seems that Windows is going to use the
swapfile anyway (which of course we all know).

Not true. You are mixing up *using* the page file with *allocating*
space on it. It will often do the latter (to improve performance in
case it needs it), but not the former.

 

[Twayne]

In

Hello all. I have a few questions regarding Swapfiles. First, however
here is my configuration:

1) Windows XP Pro (SP3), 3.0 GHZ AMD CPU,
2) 1GB Ram,
3) 3 Hard Drives:
Drive C (100GB Programs only - no data),
Drive d (250GB IDE 7200 RPM) data and app installation
points, Web and SQL Data,

With a 100 Gig boot drive, I don't think it makes much sense to be
installing programs to drive D. No data makes sense, but not apps, assming
that's what yu meant.

Drive E (500 GB Sata 7200 RPM) Data, SQL Log files and edited
Video Files,
4) Swapfiles:
Drive C: 64mb, dump file only,
Drive D: 1.5 GB
Drive E: 1.5 GB

You don't mention where you're putting your video editing files; there are
thousands of temporary files created during an edit and those are the ones
that end up in the pagefile. Same applies to rendering. You do NOT want the
pagefile where you do your editing and rendering; an area you didn't include
in your definition.

None of your setup actually lends itself to efficient use of a pagefile
anywhere but on C without further clarification of your details.

So here are my queries:

1) Does Windows use the swapfile on a particular drive based on
editing (data storage, copy etc). For example, if I am editing say a
video file on drive D, will Windows use the Swapfile on that drive to
store page fault data? This would seem to be rather foolish as the
data is being edited on the same drive as that swapfile.
2) How can I tell Windows to use the Swapfile on a particular drive
(say Drive E first or can one?
3) Is there a better way to configure the pagefiles?

1. No, I'm pretty sure not.

2. You really can't, directly. IIRC, what that many pagefiles, the OS will
look for the file on C, then D, then E ... etc.. IMO it's a poor setup
and -could- result in using the pagefile on the same drive you're working
on.

3. In general you want a small pagefile on drive C, say 128 Meg, and a
large, system managed pagefile on another, lesser used, separate physical
drive. Some people will go so far as to put the swapfile in its own separate
partition on another physical hard drive, but that's folly if there is ANY
chance of ever filling that partition with the pagefile, which video work
could accomplish. The second pagefile should be set to be System Managed.
More pagefiles than that is a waste of time.
So if you're using E and F say for video work, you do NOT want the
pagefle on either of those drives. Instead it should live on D. That way
neither the application nor the data has to contend with waiting to access
the pageile.

These might help too:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307886

http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-1056269.html

http://www.theeldergeek.com/paging_file.htm

and Wikipedia has a good set of articles on it too.

HTH,

Twayne

I ask these questions, because I've noticed at several points during
the day that the disk drive light flashes like a banshee on cocaine.
Eventually (typically after about a minute or so) it settles down.
This happens primarily when I edit video files. I understand an
realize that editing video files uses a lot of ram and swapfile, so I
don't think we need to beat that to death. I've even upped ram to 2BG
- but the same thing happens. The same occurs on a different system
(similar in config, except it has dual Pentiums with 4 2 gb ram). So
it seems that Windows is going to use the swapfile anyway (which of
course we all know).

The same would happen on any system with 3 Gig or more of RAM in the 32 but
world. You have the application itself, prefetches, editing/rendering
buffers and more all being shifted into and out of the pagefile at a high
rate of speed when the data is needed, plus someting already in RAM has to
go back to the pagefile to make room for the new stuff, so that's even more
disk work.

Hint:Just in case you ever update: Since 10,000 rpm drives are affordable
now, they do make a difference in timing for pagefile intensive operations,
as does a speedy front side bus of a Giga Hz and fast RAM.

 

[Axel Brotten]

It does what it wants to and you can't control it.





Yes. You should have a single page file and it should be on drive C:.
Putting any part of it on other partitions puts the page file farther
from the other data on the drive, so the drive heads have to travel
farther to get to and from the page file. That will slow you down
rather than improve performance.

Please see my note below - re PARTITIONS... Also, why would one want to put
a swapfile on the boot/system drive???

However, how much it slows you down depends on how much the page file
is used, and that depends on how much RAM you have. The more RAM, the
less page file use, and for many people these days, the difference in
performance is so slight as to be unnoticeable.

And why do you have partitions D: and E:? It sounds like they contain
much the same sort of thing and there is likely no good reason to have
two such partitions, rather than one.

They are NOT partitions. Please reread my post, they are DRIVES.

Not true. You are mixing up *using* the page file with *allocating*
space on it. It will often do the latter (to improve performance in
case it needs it), but not the former.

What's "Not True"??? I never mentioned anything about allocating "Versus"
using. My question(s) are pretty clear I thought. Can I control/tell Windows
which swapfile to use. As mentioned in my comment above, the same thing
happens with a system with "Twice the PHYSICAL Ram" and another system with
"Duallies and Twice the Ram". So "Not True" is not clear to me. Please
explain. Thanks.

 

[Axel Brotten]

Thanks Axel. This cleared things up considerably. I changed the swapfiles
usage to "System Managed" as apposed to allocating them myself. The
performance improved and the disk activity "Really Diminished".

In a previos reply, there was a comment regading Temp File usage. In my
reply I mentioned that the authors of the application assured me that the
only Temp files MpegVideo Wizad uses are for the MBS File Segments (which
are onlyu pointers to the actual data in the files).

I appreciate the clear and concise explanaiton.

Cheers.

 

[Axel Brotten]

Thanks for the intel.

I spoke with the authors of the application assured me that the only Temp
files MpegVideo Wizad uses are for the MBS File Segments (which are onlyu
pointers to the actual data in the files).

I'll look over the other posts, but I suspect that this along with other
information will help me out a lot.

I appreciate the help.

Axel.

 

[Axel Brotten]

Thanks to all the replies, a lot of intel and details.

I took several pieces of information into consideration and basically what I
did was changed the swapfiles to "System Managed" for each drive except the
Boot Drive (C and performance improved considerably. I also re-installed
the additional ram, but I didn't notice any significant improvement other
than apps loading faster. So that is a bonus as well.

Also, I apologize to the entire post. In my original Post I mentioned Drives
(C:, D: and E. I don't know why, but for some reason people always seem to
jump to the conclusion that one is referring to "Partitions" rather than to
"Physical" drives. I incorrectly assumed one would understand that I was
referring to Physical Drives rather than partitions based on my description.
I'll remember to be "More Precise" in future posts.

Again, thanks very much to all the replies and assistance.

Axel.

 

[John John - MVP]

[Snip...]

So here are my queries:

1) Does Windows use the swapfile on a particular drive based on editing
(data storage, copy etc). For example, if I am editing say a video file on
drive D, will Windows use the Swapfile on that drive to store page fault
data? This would seem to be rather foolish as the data is being edited on
the same drive as that swapfile.

By default Windows will favour and use the pagefile on the least busy disk.

2) How can I tell Windows to use the Swapfile on a particular drive (say
Drive E first or can one?

You can't.

3) Is there a better way to configure the pagefiles?

It hurts nothing to have a pagefile on each spindle, as per question 1
Windows will decide which one to use. Keep a pagefile on the boot
volume so that Windows can create a memory dump file if needed.

John

 

[Axel Brotten]

Thanks John. I do have (as per my post and your suggestion) a swapfile on
the Boot drive (C of 64 mb for the dumpfile.

This is a great NG, lots of intel and advice. I've already noticed an
improvement based on advice and suggestions here.

Keep up the good work all.

Again, many thanks.

Axel.

[Snip...]

So here are my queries:

1) Does Windows use the swapfile on a particular drive based on editing
(data storage, copy etc). For example, if I am editing say a video file
on drive D, will Windows use the Swapfile on that drive to store page
fault data? This would seem to be rather foolish as the data is being
edited on the same drive as that swapfile.

By default Windows will favour and use the pagefile on the least busy
disk.

2) How can I tell Windows to use the Swapfile on a particular drive (say
Drive E first or can one?

You can't.

3) Is there a better way to configure the pagefiles?

It hurts nothing to have a pagefile on each spindle, as per question 1
Windows will decide which one to use. Keep a pagefile on the boot volume
so that Windows can create a memory dump file if needed.

John

 

[Pegasus [MVP]]

Thanks to all the replies, a lot of intel and details.

Also, I apologize to the entire post. In my original Post I mentioned
Drives (C:, D: and E. I don't know why, but for some reason people
always seem to jump to the conclusion that one is referring to
"Partitions" rather than to "Physical" drives. I incorrectly assumed one
would understand that I was referring to Physical Drives rather than
partitions based on my description. I'll remember to be "More Precise" in
future posts.

Again, thanks very much to all the replies and assistance.

Axel.

I recommend that you use the word "disk" when you mean a physical disk, and
"drives" when you refer to a formatted partition. This would get around the
ambiguity. Example: I installed three disks in my PC. Each has two drives.

 

[Twayne]

In

Please see my note below - re PARTITIONS... Also, why would one want
to put a swapfile on the boot/system drive???

1. That's almost always where it is by default.
2. No choice with a single-drive system.
3. With a 2-drive system, where the second drive has massive amounts of
activity compared to the operating system requirements activity, you'd want
the pf on drive C, the boot drive.
4. etc.

They are NOT partitions. Please reread my post, they are DRIVES.


What's "Not True"??? I never mentioned anything about allocating
"Versus" using. My question(s) are pretty clear I thought. Can I
control/tell Windows which swapfile to use. As mentioned in my
comment above, the same thing happens with a system with "Twice the
PHYSICAL Ram" and another system with "Duallies and Twice the Ram".
So "Not True" is not clear to me. Please explain. Thanks.

I thought you were pretty clear about it personally but others with
different native languages may have had some interpretation problems.
No, AFAIK there isn't any way to control which of multiple drives are
used at any particular point in time or drive use.

You'll find there are differeing opinions on pagefile uses, but in general
the following links might help a lot. One error I think I may have made:
The pagefile that gets used might go to the drive showing the least activity
on it instead of as I described it in a previous post. It's news to me, but
if true might justify your use of so many pagefiles, but ... <g>.

http://search.techrepublic.com.com/search/windows+xp+pagefile.html

http://tweakhound.com/xp/xptweaks/supertweaks5.htm

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1494&page=2

HTH,

Twayne

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Please see my note below - re PARTITIONS... Also, why would one want to put
a swapfile on the boot/system drive???

Because most people don't have any other choice, other than a
different partition on the that drive.

They are NOT partitions. Please reread my post, they are DRIVES.

Yes, I see that now. My error, and my apologies. Putting it a separate
physical drive is *good*, since it decreases head movement.

Not true. You are mixing up *using* the page file with *allocating*
space on it. It will often do the latter (to improve performance in
case it needs it), but not the former.

What's "Not True"??? I never mentioned anything about allocating "Versus"
using. My question(s) are pretty clear I thought. Can I control/tell Windows
which swapfile to use. As mentioned in my comment above, the same thing
happens with a system with "Twice the PHYSICAL Ram" and another system with
"Duallies and Twice the Ram". So "Not True" is not clear to me. Please
explain. Thanks.