Which components need cooling?

[Adam Chapman]

I am looking into building my first pc and want to come up with a cost
estimate for the cooling system.

Im serously considering liquid cooling. The thing is, most of the
liquid cooling systems on the market only come with a waterblock to
cool the cpu.

Which other components need to be cooled?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Adam

 

[John Doe]

I am looking into building my first pc and want to come up with a
cost estimate for the cooling system.

Im serously considering liquid cooling. The thing is, most of the
liquid cooling systems on the market only come with a waterblock
to cool the cpu.

Sounds like a major hassle.

Some retail CPUs come with a heat pipe heat sink, AMD Opteron for
example. You can buy expensive heat pipe heatsink/fan combinations.

Which other components need to be cooled?

Zalman makes a nifty little metal arm that you attach to the add-in
card rack, and you attach a fan(s) to that arm. I have two of them,
currently using neither, but if you are overly interested in cooling
it might suit you.

Since apparently you haven't bought the case yet, be sure to buy a
case with an intake fan blowing on the hard drive rack. Antec sells
at least one. There is an opening under the front cover but you can
put packaging tape there to force more air through the filter which
is easy to clean (of course that filter doesn't catch everything but
it helps).

Fast video cards come with a fan. Some chipsets come with a fan. If
the chipset doesn't have a fan, that might be a good reason to use
the Zalman arm fan.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[Thomas Wendell]

WAG...

Northbridge, southbridge, GPU, RAM, processor/mb voltage regulators... ;-)

I am looking into building my first pc and want to come up with a cost
estimate for the cooling system.

Im serously considering liquid cooling. The thing is, most of the
liquid cooling systems on the market only come with a waterblock to
cool the cpu.

Which other components need to be cooled?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Adam

--
Tumppi
=================================
A lot learned from these newsgroups
Helsinki, FINLAND
(translations from/to FI not always accurate
=================================

 

[Paul]

I am looking into building my first pc and want to come up with a cost
estimate for the cooling system.

Im serously considering liquid cooling. The thing is, most of the
liquid cooling systems on the market only come with a waterblock to
cool the cpu.

Which other components need to be cooled?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Adam

There is a primer here on water cooling.

"An Introduction to Watercooling your Computer"
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54331

And there is an entire forum devoted to water:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=70

Paul

 

[Dave]

I am looking into building my first pc and want to come up with a cost
estimate for the cooling system.

Im serously considering liquid cooling. The thing is, most of the
liquid cooling systems on the market only come with a waterblock to
cool the cpu.

Which other components need to be cooled?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Adam

CPU, GPU (on video card), Northbridge (main chip on mainboard), and I'd
suggest the hard drive(s), as well (optional)

Keep in mind that water-cooling can't eliminate the need for cooling fans
entirely. You'll still need some minimal amount of air circulated through
the case. One of those cases with a blow-hole in the top and a large fan
pushing air out the top would probably be good for this.

The main advantage of water-cooling is that water is much more efficient at
removing heat than air is. This allows for extreme over-clocking, if you
are into that. But if you are going that route, you might want to
water-cool the RAM, also.

I'd recommend you not water-cool unless you are seriously into overclocking.
But then, I'd also recommend you not overclock. -Dave

 

[themattiskool]

CPU, GPU (on video card), Northbridge (main chip on mainboard), and I'd
suggest the hard drive(s), as well (optional)

Keep in mind that water-cooling can't eliminate the need for cooling fans
entirely. You'll still need some minimal amount of air circulated through
the case. One of those cases with a blow-hole in the top and a large fan
pushing air out the top would probably be good for this.

The main advantage of water-cooling is that water is much more efficient at
removing heat than air is. This allows for extreme over-clocking, if you
are into that. But if you are going that route, you might want to
water-cool the RAM, also.

I'd recommend you not water-cool unless you are seriously into overclocking.
But then, I'd also recommend you not overclock. -Dave

tRUE a normal system should not need accesave cooling.

i just built my new compee (at christmass) and I only added 1 extra
fan
normal systems (running at sugested clock times) are relativly cool
with normal 2-3 fan cooling.
i would not spend extra on cooling maby 1 output fan but no more.
if you are going to put money into anything get a faster core or more
ram

 

[themattiskool]

CPU, GPU (on video card), Northbridge (main chip on mainboard), and I'd
suggest the hard drive(s), as well (optional)

Keep in mind that water-cooling can't eliminate the need for cooling fans
entirely. You'll still need some minimal amount of air circulated through
the case. One of those cases with a blow-hole in the top and a large fan
pushing air out the top would probably be good for this.

The main advantage of water-cooling is that water is much more efficient at
removing heat than air is. This allows for extreme over-clocking, if you
are into that. But if you are going that route, you might want to
water-cool the RAM, also.

I'd recommend you not water-cool unless you are seriously into overclocking.
But then, I'd also recommend you not overclock. -Dave

tRUE a normal system should not need accesave cooling.

i just built my new compee (at christmass) and I only added 1 extra
fan
normal systems (running at sugested clock times) are relativly cool
with normal 2-3 fan cooling.
i would not spend extra on cooling maby 1 extra output fan but no
more.
if you are going to put money into anything get a faster core or more
ram

 

[Frank McCoy]

Fast video cards come with a fan. Some chipsets come with a fan. If
the chipset doesn't have a fan, that might be a good reason to use
the Zalman arm fan.

My old ATI "All-In-Wonder" board came with a fan.
The fan died a slow death; but I couldn't get a replacement from ATI ...
They'd only fix the thing if I sent them the failing board.
Of course, eventually the fan *did* die, the chip on the boar shorted
out, and took the power-supply with it.

The long and the short of it was:
I got a new ATI board (From COMP-USA) with all the same functionality
except not having the FM-radio-tuner on board. I didn't use that
function anyway. The new board runs close to twice as fast, and does
*not* have a fan on board. The heatsink is tiny compared to the old
one; and runs fairly cool to the touch.

I guess they improved their chip *that much* just in a year or two.
At least now I don't have to worry about the fan dying.

ATI boards can be a nightmare to install *if* you ever had an older ATI
board in the system before. Even their "ATI software removal tool"
doesn't do the complete job it should. I've found though, that simply
deleting *all* files in the C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM and C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32
directories labeled ATI*.* (Copy them to a temp directory first, if
squeamish ... I no longer bother.) fixes most of that ... That *and*
running their software-removal-tool. Do this, even if installing
updates from their website. For some reason ATI doesn't remove old
versions (nor even ask) when installing newer products.

Once installed properly though, they work great.

Oh yeah: If you *haven't* had an ATI board in previously, then just
insert their CD and run it. That usually works just fine. Have a care
though, if installing updates.

Why bother with all that hassle?
I *like* the one board having all that stuff in it, including the TV
tuner. When installed right, they run great!

The moral of the story is:
Some board *do* require honking big heatsinks to keep cool.
Sometimes though, other boards run faster, better, and even cooler
*without* the extra heat-removal.

After that headache, my tendency now is to buy the board I like with the
best specs that does *not* have some ultra-fancy fan already on board.
If that fan goes bad ....

 

[John Doe]

Why bother with all that hassle?
I *like* the one board having all that stuff in it, including the
TV tuner. When installed right, they run great!

Yeah, but for the same price you can get a faster video card.

Just depends on what you need.

The moral of the story is:
Some board *do* require honking big heatsinks to keep cool.
Sometimes though, other boards run faster, better, and even cooler
*without* the extra heat-removal.

All other things being equal, active cooling is better.

Just depends on what you need.

After that headache, my tendency now is to buy the board I like
with the best specs that does *not* have some ultra-fancy fan
already on board. If that fan goes bad ....

That's true, there is a risk. I think my fan-cooled video card has
automatic shutdown above a certain temperature. It's not difficult,
it probably cost them a few pennies which cuts into the CEO's
profits.

 

[w_tom]

I am looking into building my first pc and want to come up with a cost
estimate for the cooling system.

Im serously considering liquid cooling. The thing is, most of the
liquid cooling systems on the market only come with a waterblock to
cool the cpu.

When one 80 mm fan is more than sufficient for chassis cooling, well
then why are you installing a booster rocket on a motorcylce? Do you
want to cross the Grand Canyon or go to the supermarket?

CPU heatsink needs a fan because heatsink 'degree C per watt' number
is otherwise too high. Chassis fan is more than sufficient airflow.
A second fan placed in series can maintain sufficient airflow should
the first fan faile.

Be more concerned about hotspots created by ribbon cables.

 

[Frank McCoy]

Yeah, but for the same price you can get a faster video card.

Not so sure of that.
The board I bought had pretty darned good specifications; and in fact
uses the same chip-set they sell as a super-duper video gaming card.

And the price-differential between the two is only about 10%.

That's one reason it's called an "All-In-Wonder", because it *does* have
a pretty decent graphic's processor, DVD decoder, TV-tuner, MPG decoder,
and more video-outputs than you can shake a stick at, while retaining
the latest chips, GPU, on-board-memory, and other stuff you often pay
big bucks for as the "latest" video gaming board.

It seems the price of the big memory, GPU, and associated stuff for
gaming (and handling big screens at high resolution) costs so much that
they can stuff a TV-tuner and extra video I/O onto the board for very
little more. I suppose that's why their TV-Tuner boards alone sell for
less than $50, packaging, software, I/O cables, instruction-manual,
marketing, and all the rest. Costs very little to include the same
thing ON the video board itself, if there's room for it ... and with
today's integration, it don't take much. I'd lay long odds that their
manufacturing-price to add the tuner, cables, and software *to* an
existing high-performance video-board is under $15. That means they can
sell the combo-board with higher specifications than having the items
separate (using the GPU for some functions) for probably under $20,
without sacrificing a thing in performance.

After all, the high-priced bucks you pay for a high-end video-card are
mainly for the GPU and memory. Once you have those in place, adding
features like DVD decoding, MPG decoding, and such-like are merely cheap
software hidden in producing thousands of units. Putting that stuff in
ROM on the board is peanuts. That leaves the TV-tuner ... Which they
already make as a stand-alone board, and *there* it doesn't affect
performance of the video-card; so why should it do so if included *on*
the same board?

Just depends on what you need.

As you say ....

All other things being equal, active cooling is better.

Ah, but all things are *not* equal.
If you buy a card with the same bells, whistles, and speed, but one has
an active fan that will cause the board to *fry* if it fails, while the
other one runs even cooler without any fan at all ....

Yeah, that board will probably run even cooler and safer if you direct
fan-output over the heatsink ... But why bother?

Just depends on what you need.


That's true, there is a risk. I think my fan-cooled video card has
automatic shutdown above a certain temperature. It's not difficult,
it probably cost them a few pennies which cuts into the CEO's
profits.

I wish mine had that kind of protection. ;-{
These days CPUs all do; as do most motherboards.
Why not the same protection on video cards?
Especially considering the super-duper processors some have.

Some come with extra fan-supply-jacks that you can hook to a
motherboard, for the mobo to test for fan-stoppage.

And some motherboards support this by having AGP fan supplies.
However, *none* of the various hot video-boards I've ever bought do so,
while only one motherboard supported the idea.

I guess, unless the two types of board-manufacturers can get together,
or the video-board makers can include monitoring software and hardware,
we just will continue to see video boards frying (and often taking both
power-supplies and motherboards with them when they do).

 

[John Doe]

In alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt John Doe <jdoe

Not so sure of that.

I'm sure, Frank.

By the way. Where did you get the silly idea that DDR memory can fit
into DDR2 memory slots?

 

[Frank McCoy]

I'm sure, Frank.

By the way. Where did you get the silly idea that DDR memory can fit
into DDR2 memory slots?

Confusing DDR2 with DDR400 versus slower versions.
;-{
My bad.