When display device fades and video stutters at the same time???

N

Nick Mirro

This has completely baffled me. I am getting relentless stuttering of
1080 video running VLC, WMC or WinDVD and running either coreavc or
ffdshow. Directx, mobo and vid drivers are all new.

Here's the real head spinner. When running the coreAVC codec, I open
an MTS file in WMP and the entire projector output begins TO DIM????
Like the lamp output is dropping. Its new and works perfectly in any
other situation (blue-ray, Cable, etc.)

Any ideas about this? My head is spinning.

Nick


MicroATX GIgabyte GA-MA7 AMD 780G chipset
A64 X2 2.5 ghz processor
Onboard ATI HD 3200 video (using HDMI out to Epson Home Cinema 1080p)

Single Kingston 2gb PC8500 running at 800 mhz
 
N

Nick Mirro

This has completely baffled me.  I am getting relentless stuttering of
1080 video running VLC, WMC or WinDVD and running either coreavc or
ffdshow.  Directx, mobo and vid drivers are all new.

Here's the real head spinner.  When running the coreAVC codec, I open
an MTS file in WMP and the entire projector output begins TO DIM????
Like the lamp output is dropping.  Its new and works perfectly in any
other situation (blue-ray, Cable, etc.)

Any ideas about this?  My head is spinning.

Nick

MicroATX  GIgabyte GA-MA7  AMD 780G chipset
A64 X2 2.5 ghz processor
Onboard ATI HD 3200 video (using HDMI out to Epson Home Cinema 1080p)

Single Kingston 2gb PC8500 running at 800 mhz
Click to expand...

Could this all be the powersupply? I think its 400 watts and cannot
be replaced for this case.
 
P

Paul

Nick said:
Could this all be the powersupply? I think its 400 watts and cannot
be replaced for this case.
Click to expand...

400W should be plenty for a system using a built-in video solution.
Even a 130W processor, isn't going to have much of an effect on a
400W supply.

If you want better feedback about your supply, copy all the numbers
off the label on the side of the supply. The numbers all have
meaning.

It is possible for a company, to make bad choices on the balance
of the supply rails. For example, there was a 500W supply with a
12V 10A output, which is useless for any practical system. And
that is why, if you want comments about your supply, you really
need to present all the numbers. If there is a picture of the
supply on the Internet, and the label is clearly visible in the
picture, that could save you the effort of copying the numbers
into a posting. Otherwise, just copy off the info and post it.

If you have stuttering, check Task Manager and see if the processor
is flat out. Also, while playing with your processor, verify what
you see in CPUZ, before the video is played, and while the video
is playing. AMD systems use Cool N' Quiet, and the computer should
"switch up" to full speed, when the video plays, and then
reduce speed and voltage when the system is idle. Occasionally,
the usage of Cool N' Quiet affects video playback. Disable it,
or use the Power control panel to select a "high power profile"
such as "Always ON". Maybe that will keep the CPU at full rated
speed.

http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

Paul
 
N

Nick Mirro

400W should be plenty for a system using a built-in video solution.
Even a 130W processor, isn't going to have much of an effect on a
400W supply.

If you want better feedback about your supply, copy all the numbers
off the label on the side of the supply. The numbers all have
meaning.

It is possible for a company, to make bad choices on the balance
of the supply rails. For example, there was a 500W supply with a
12V 10A output, which is useless for any practical system. And
that is why, if you want comments about your supply, you really
need to present all the numbers. If there is a picture of the
supply on the Internet, and the label is clearly visible in the
picture, that could save you the effort of copying the numbers
into a posting. Otherwise, just copy off the info and post it.

If you have stuttering, check Task Manager and see if the processor
is flat out. Also, while playing with your processor, verify what
you see in CPUZ, before the video is played, and while the video
is playing. AMD systems use Cool N' Quiet, and the computer should
"switch up" to full speed, when the video plays, and then
reduce speed and voltage when the system is idle. Occasionally,
the usage of Cool N' Quiet affects video playback. Disable it,
or use the Power control panel to select a "high power profile"
such as "Always ON". Maybe that will keep the CPU at full rated
speed.

http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

    Paul- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Click to expand...

Thanks for helping with this. The powersupply is an Antec AR-350,
having only 350 watts. I ran CPUID and it showed the processor
remaining at 2500 while I ran the .mts video or not. Usage during
playback is at 50-67%.

I ran through Antec's power supply calculator based on my current
system and it said I needed 177 watts : - ) Not sure if it takes
into account hdmi output. It didn't list my onboard ATI HD 3200 so I
picked the more powerful Radeon HD 3450 as the video.

There is only one stick of 2 gb DDR2 SDRAM on the board. Could this
single channel approach be causing the problem? Here are the power
supply specs.

Product Name Power Supply for NSK1380
Product Type ATX12V Power Supply
Product Model AR-350
Output Power 350 W
Input Voltage 240V AC

Certifications & Standards 80 PLUS
Compatibility Aria NSK1300
Aria NSK1380

Frequency

50 Hz
60 Hz

Receptacles 1 x 24-pin ATX Motherboard
1 x 4-pin ATX12V Motherboard

Input Voltage Range 100V AC to 240V AC

Output Voltage

3.3V DC
5V DC
12V DC
-12V DC
5V DC
 
P

Paul

Nick said:
Thanks for helping with this. The powersupply is an Antec AR-350,
having only 350 watts. I ran CPUID and it showed the processor
remaining at 2500 while I ran the .mts video or not. Usage during
playback is at 50-67%.

I ran through Antec's power supply calculator based on my current
system and it said I needed 177 watts : - ) Not sure if it takes
into account hdmi output. It didn't list my onboard ATI HD 3200 so I
picked the more powerful Radeon HD 3450 as the video.

There is only one stick of 2 gb DDR2 SDRAM on the board. Could this
single channel approach be causing the problem? Here are the power
supply specs.

Product Name Power Supply for NSK1380
Product Type ATX12V Power Supply
Product Model AR-350
Output Power 350 W
Input Voltage 240V AC

Certifications & Standards 80 PLUS
Compatibility Aria NSK1300
Aria NSK1380

Frequency

50 Hz
60 Hz

Receptacles 1 x 24-pin ATX Motherboard
1 x 4-pin ATX12V Motherboard

Input Voltage Range 100V AC to 240V AC

Output Voltage

3.3V DC
5V DC
12V DC
-12V DC
5V DC
Click to expand...

This is what I was looking for.

http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/11-129-038-14.jpg

3.3V @ 20A, 5V @ 20A, 12V1 @ 18A, 12V2 @ 18A, -12V @ 0.8A, +5VSB @ 2A
<---- 110W max ----> <--- 300W max = 25A --->
<------------------------ 350W max --------------------------------->

My power calculation method.

1) Motherboard power is about 50W. This allows for a 30W chipset,
2W per DIMM, a bunch of 1 watt peripheral chips and so on. Power
may come from 3.3V or 5V for example. There is no way of knowing
how the power draw may be split, between them.

2) Computing power for 3.3V and 5V is not practical. Too little is
known about each motherboard to allow it. Instead, I set the
min acceptable current to 3.3V @ 20A and 5V @ 20A. Your supply
meets that criteria. 50W of motherboard power should be
handled by that.

3) A hard drive might be 12W total, 12V @ 0.6A idle, 5V @ 1A for
the controller. (Newer drives are doing better than that, but
these are the numbers I use.) Startup current on a hard drive
can be significant, at 12V @ 2.5A for the first ten seconds. But
because processor and video are not maxed during that interval,
I don't bother with a "startup power calc" unless more than four
hard drives are present in the system.

4) A CDROM might be 25W total, 12V @ 1.5A (when media present),
5V @ 1.5A for the controller board. Bluray could be more. Many
optical drive makers use "boiler plate" numbers, not representative
of the real power. (I've measured my current optical drive, at 1 amp
load from 12V, at full speed on the media.)

5) Processors are powered by VCore. I assume 90% efficient Vcore
conversion (the circuits around the CPU socket). Divide by 12V,
to get the amps drawn from 12V2 (the CPU supply). An 89W processor
would be (89/0.9)/12V = 8.24 amps from 12V2.

6) 12V1 powers storage devices and the fans. I allocate 12V @ 0.5A for
fans. The fans may have numbers printed on them, for more accurate
estimations.

That is about 200W, if you were using an 89W processor. I can't tell
from your processor model description, what you're using. In any case,
I don't see a cause for concern.

I can't answer your question about whether another stick of RAM would
help (dual channel). My guess would be, if would help the overall
performance of the system, but I can't guarantee anything about stutters.

The "50% to 67%" could mean one core is flat out, and the other one
is used for disk I/O and general housekeeping. So perhaps you
really are flat out. You can go to Task Manager, find the player
application, and change Affinity setting for the task, so it stays
on one core. But if the player is multithreaded, that could further
restrict it. Forcing a task to stay on one core, makes interpreting
the CPU graph(s) easier.

Right now, your best bet is changing the Power scheme to "Always ON".

Or trying some overclocking experiments, and chart what happens to the
stutter. Or drop the output resolution a bit, and monitor level of
stutter and level of CPU usage.

The single fastest way to solve a problem like this, is change the
player application to something more efficient.

Perhaps you could compare to some benchmarking articles.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/media-playback_7.html

I didn't address your "fading" problem, because frankly, I have no
theory as to how that could happen over HDMI :) Does the player application
change gamma or display settings, when the movie starts ?

Paul
 
N

Nick Mirro

This is what I was looking for.

http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/11-129-038-14.jpg

3.3V @ 20A, 5V @ 20A, 12V1 @ 18A, 12V2 @ 18A, -12V @ 0.8A, +5VSB @ 2A
<---- 110W max ----> <--- 300W max = 25A --->
<------------------------ 350W max --------------------------------->

My power calculation method.

1) Motherboard power is about 50W. This allows for a 30W chipset,
    2W per DIMM, a bunch of 1 watt peripheral chips and so on. Power
    may come from 3.3V or 5V for example. There is no way of knowing
    how the power draw may be split, between them.

2) Computing power for 3.3V and 5V is not practical. Too little is
    known about each motherboard to allow it. Instead, I set the
    min acceptable current to 3.3V @ 20A and 5V @ 20A. Your supply
    meets that criteria. 50W of motherboard power should be
    handled by that.

3) A hard drive might be 12W total, 12V @ 0.6A idle, 5V @ 1A for
    the controller. (Newer drives are doing better than that, but
    these are the numbers I use.) Startup current on a hard drive
    can be significant, at 12V @ 2.5A for the first ten seconds. But
    because processor and video are not maxed during that interval,
    I don't bother with a "startup power calc" unless more than four
    hard drives are present in the system.

4) A CDROM might be 25W total, 12V @ 1.5A (when media present),
    5V @ 1.5A for the controller board. Bluray could be more. Many
    optical drive makers use "boiler plate" numbers, not representative
    of the real power. (I've measured my current optical drive, at 1 amp
    load from 12V, at full speed on the media.)

5) Processors are powered by VCore. I assume 90% efficient Vcore
    conversion (the circuits around the CPU socket). Divide by 12V,
    to get the amps drawn from 12V2 (the CPU supply). An 89W processor
    would be (89/0.9)/12V = 8.24 amps from 12V2.

6) 12V1 powers storage devices and the fans. I allocate 12V @ 0.5A for
    fans. The fans may have numbers printed on them, for more accurate
    estimations.

That is about 200W, if you were using an 89W processor. I can't tell
from your processor model description, what you're using. In any case,
I don't see a cause for concern.

I can't answer your question about whether another stick of RAM would
help (dual channel). My guess would be, if would help the overall
performance of the system, but I can't guarantee anything about stutters.

The "50% to 67%" could mean one core is flat out, and the other one
is used for disk I/O and general housekeeping. So perhaps you
really are flat out. You can go to Task Manager, find the player
application, and change Affinity setting for the task, so it stays
on one core. But if the player is multithreaded, that could further
restrict it. Forcing a task to stay on one core, makes interpreting
the CPU graph(s) easier.

Right now, your best bet is changing the Power scheme to "Always ON".

Or trying some overclocking experiments, and chart what happens to the
stutter. Or drop the output resolution a bit, and monitor level of
stutter and level of CPU usage.

The single fastest way to solve a problem like this, is change the
player application to something more efficient.

Perhaps you could compare to some benchmarking articles.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/media-playback_7.html

I didn't address your "fading" problem, because frankly, I have no
theory as to how that could happen over HDMI :) Does the player application
change gamma or display settings, when the movie starts ?

    Paul- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Click to expand...

Thanks again for helping. The solution was simply not enough
processing power. I upped the
processor and added a 2nd memory channel and it is now solved.
Strangely, the older A64 processor was fused to the heatsink. Never
saw
that before.

The fading problem is really odd. I haven't seen it since changing
the hardware. Maybe just one of those kick you while your down
problems. Evil spirits conspiring : - )
 
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