What to learn next

[Guest]

Hi,

I am a self taught begining Access user. I would like to learn more. What
should I concentrate on? VBA, SQL, both, something else?

Thanks for your advise.

PS I LOVE this discussion board and it has helped me alot.

 

[Rick Brandt]

Hi,

I am a self taught begining Access user. I would like to learn more.
What should I concentrate on? VBA, SQL, both, something else?

All of it. You should know it all fluently in about a decade ;-)

Honestly, you need to learn what you need to learn. Whenever you need your apps
to accomplish something and you don't know how to do it then THAT is the next
thing to learn about. There is not really a step by step process where you
"start here" and "finish there".

 

[Guest]

Thanks Rick,

Could you brielfing tell me what I would use SQL for and what I would use
VBA for?

 

[Guest]

Regi,

Rick is right (as if there was ever any doubt!)

You'll need to learn them both as you develop to suit your needs.

When do you use each?
VBA - permits you to add valuable functionality to your databases, such as,
automated data importing, automated e-mailing, Opening other applications to
view linked files or simple things like building menus.

SQL - is the basic language of most databases (there are exceptions of
course). This is required to build queries, forms and reports to be able to
view/edit information based on your criteria. Say you need to build a report
but only include the top 10 items, well this would be an SQL query that you'd
need to build.

Both are crucial and you'll need to learn them as you go. It take a lot of
time to master them but ask your questions here. This is where I started to
learn.

 

[Rick Brandt]

Thanks Rick,

Could you brielfing tell me what I would use SQL for and what I would
use VBA for?

You can go pretty far in Access without either one. That is why I indicated
that you will know you need them when you need them.

SQL is most often used for queries that cannot be built in the graphical
diesgner. This includes UNION queries, Passthrough queries, and non-equi-join
queries. You might not ever need any of these. It is also used in VBA code to
construct "queries" to be used by the code.

Even if you always use the graphical builder, knowing SQL can be very useful.
For example SQL is about all you will see in these groups when queries are
discussed since we cannot post a picture of the query builder.

VBA code is for when you need to make things happen automatically in response to
the user doing something. Any time you use a button or menu item or toolbar
button then either a Macro or VBA code is "doing stuff" in the background. When
you need to make stuff happen that is not provided by the built in interface
then you will need to create your own macros or VBA code.

Access 2007 not withstanding macros are generally avoided for serious
development as they have limited capability and no error handling. That leaves
VBA coding as your main option for this type of stuff.

 

[John W. Vinson]

Hi,

I am a self taught begining Access user. I would like to learn more. What
should I concentrate on? VBA, SQL, both, something else?

I'd agree with Rick that you should let your needs drive your learning. If
you're just exploring, I'd suggest getting a good familiarity with queries
(which will involve learning some SQL) first. There are lots of good books and
other resources out there if you want to delve deeper:

Jeff Conrad's resources page:
http://www.accessmvp.com/JConrad/accessjunkie/resources.html

The Access Web resources page:
http://www.mvps.org/access/resources/index.html

A free tutorial written by Crystal (MS Access MVP):
http://allenbrowne.com/casu-22.html

MVP Allen Browne's tutorials:
http://allenbrowne.com/links.html#Tutorials

John W. Vinson [MVP]

 

[Guest]

The very first thing to learn is good database design. No matter how well
you know anything else, a poorly designed non normalized database will be
harder to work with and disappointing in the long run.

I would agree with the other posters that you should learn what you need to
learn to some degree, but my thougt is this:

You can do quite a bit in Access without any VBA knowledge using macros.
You can create queries using the query builder without knowing SQL syntax.

But, IMHO, start with VBA. You can go farther in Access not knowing SQL
than you can not knowing VBA.

Macros are quick and dirty and allow some logic control, but they don't
handle errors well and have some limitations.

The VBA language is pretty simple. What takes time and practice to
understand is how to deal with object models.

 

[Guest]

Once again you all have given me some great information to work with. Thanks
and have a great weekend.

 

[Albert D. Kallal]

Hi,

I am a self taught begining Access user. I would like to learn more. What
should I concentrate on? VBA, SQL, both, something else?

Thanks for your advise.

PS I LOVE this discussion board and it has helped me alot.

There is the number of things I would consider. First, I would get a good
book on VBA and access. The one I have sitting on my shelf I think is almost
ten years old now, it was really an excellent investment. it had one chapter
with I think what 80 pages just on menu bars alone. the book I have was from
the unleashed series, and was actually called "visual basic for
applications".

There is a list of goods suggested books here:

http://home.bendbroadband.com/conradsystems/accessjunkie/resources.html

another thing to do is to start considering using some of the more advanced
software features of the VBA. For example, have you tried using class
objects in access?

I explain when, how, and even why you should use class objects in access
here:

http://www.members.shaw.ca/AlbertKallal/Articles/WhyClass.html

and, the other area doesn't hurt to do any learning is to continue to get
better at and learn the structured query language (sql). of anything I've
ever learned in computer software, the investment of time and learning SQL
was likely the best investment I ever made. Even if you're not using access
any more, if you use oracle, you go off and learn.net, FoxPro or anything
else you use, virtually all of these information management systems will
continue to use sql. I was first exposed to SQL in 1991, when I was doing
some work in FoxPro. While FoxPro as a programming language for me is a
distance memory, I still today use SQL. if you go off and design a web site,
or just about any other piece of software with any platform, you're likely
still going to be exposed to SQL.

I've written software using assembler, I've written payroll systems from
scratch in Pascal, I've worked on D3, and IBM "Universe" multi-valued
database systems. So, I learned and used a good number of programming
languages over the years. The one constant, and the ONE thing that I still
the use all the time is SQL.

So I highly recommend to continue to learn and use SQL, as it is a common
means by which you who will grab data from a database. You use sql with MS
access, Microsoft SQL server, MySql, or even Oracle etc.

Learning database technology is a good in vestment of your time. Along with
sql, TOP OF MY list is to continue to improve your ability to normalize your
data. Thus, good data normalizing skills is the TOP thing I look for in a
developer. So keep learning SQL, and keep improving your skills in
normalzing your data.

I also wrote an article a number of years ago about converting an
application from an old mainframe system into MS access. suggest you read
the following story and process that I used for tihs project here:
http://www.members.shaw.ca/AlbertKallal/Articles/fog0000000003.html

In the above artcile I speak of certain criteria, and certain skill sets
that I believe are necessary as developer to complete the task.

 

[Guest]

Regi, what a fabulous post! See how much response it has generated.

Rick is totally right: 'Necessity is the mother of invention.' So learn
what you need to master your next task.

If you are designing a project from scratch I would endorse Klatuu's
comments. A proper understanding of your data and a proper database design
can save you hours and avoid many cul-de-sac's or restarts. It can also make
some really surprising and advanced analysis possible. So add a book on
normalised database design to your shopping list. I'm sorry I don't have a
recommendation since I still work from some photocopied LBMS notes, now 20
years old. I leave it to someone else to suggest some reading.

Rod

 

[Dirk Goldgar]

Regi, what a fabulous post! See how much response it has generated.

Rick is totally right: 'Necessity is the mother of invention.' So learn
what you need to master your next task.

If you are designing a project from scratch I would endorse Klatuu's
comments. A proper understanding of your data and a proper database
design
can save you hours and avoid many cul-de-sac's or restarts. It can also
make
some really surprising and advanced analysis possible. So add a book on
normalised database design to your shopping list. I'm sorry I don't have
a
recommendation since I still work from some photocopied LBMS notes, now 20
years old. I leave it to someone else to suggest some reading.

How about Rebecca Riordan's _Designing Effective Database Systems_?

 

[John W. Vinson]

How about Rebecca Riordan's _Designing Effective Database Systems_?

Has that been reprinted? Last I heard it was (absurdly, unaccountably, and
strangely) out of print. It's top notch, and useful in any relational database
software.

John W. Vinson [MVP]

 

[Dirk Goldgar]

Has that been reprinted? Last I heard it was (absurdly, unaccountably, and
strangely) out of print. It's top notch, and useful in any relational
database
software.

The original, _Designing *Relational* Database Systems_, is out of print.
Has the new and revised edition gone out of print already? That would be a
shame.

 

[Fred Boer]

The new edition is still in print... I have a copy and just checked
Amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/Designing-Eff...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196006189&sr=8-1

 

[John W. Vinson]

The original, _Designing *Relational* Database Systems_, is out of print.
Has the new and revised edition gone out of print already? That would be a
shame.

<off to buy a new book that I didn't realize existed>

John W. Vinson [MVP]