What % of Windows XP machines have SP2

[BillW50]

What did Microsoft make up?

That they know how many illegal copies out there.

 

[Poprivet]

And the governement doesn't monitor Internet traffic and email, isn't
that right Mr. Grumpy? Maybe you don't recall years ago when you had
to register to use Microsoft's Knowledge base. And after I filled in
just my phone number and my address, Microsoft website came back with
my company I worked for, their address, and phone number. And then it
asked if this was me? And anybody who gets Windows Updates (which is
most people), Microsoft knows what you have installed. And yes,
Microsoft has reported to the major media, they know how many illegal
copies are out there. And they say ignorance is bliss, isn't that so
Mr. Grumpy?

Must be a full moon lately:

Wow, you can actually be quite a complete idiot and stupid, too at times. I
can cite plenty of instance of how the estimates were done, but I seriously
doubt you can provide even 1 instance of an accurate count of same.
Actually, I know you cannot do so.

As for ignorance being bliss, that's the only thing could explain why you're
using windows and the 'net at all. You obviously are very ignorant of the
web structure or even any workings on the web and the internet. You need to
learn a little more about the real world and maybe even get a life.
I have few prejudices, but intentional ignorance and trolling for a fight
as you are doing IS one of them.

Pop`

 

[Guest]

Thanks for your help cquirke

You're exactly right about my target audience (the average internet user)
not knowing what a pixel shader is, - probably not even knowing what graphics
hardware is. They just want to find a fun free game online that works, no
questions asked, and doesn't require a whole bunch of installing of DX
upgrades etc.

Thats why I have to find out what %age of XP machines have SP2.
Microsoft know how many copies of XP they sold, they know how many of those
upgraded to SP2, therefore they know the %age I'm after. The question is
rapidly becoming not "Where do I find this information?" - but "Why is this
information not publically available?"

1) When do you plan to come to market? 3-6 months from now.
2) Does your app require Internet access?

Yes - and you have another good point here - security. Perhaps I am forced
to use SP2, but I'd still like to know the cost (in market %age) of that
decision.

 

[Bill James]

Why do you believe "they know how many of those upgraded to SP2"? I have no reason to believe they even attempt to track this type of information, or that any reliable method could be created to track upgrades.

 

[Uncle Grumpy]

And they say ignorance is bliss, isn't that so Mr. Grumpy?

Need design help for that tinfoil beanie?

 

[Rock]

Thanks for your help cquirke

You're exactly right about my target audience (the average internet user)
not knowing what a pixel shader is, - probably not even knowing what
graphics
hardware is. They just want to find a fun free game online that works, no
questions asked, and doesn't require a whole bunch of installing of DX
upgrades etc.

Thats why I have to find out what %age of XP machines have SP2.
Microsoft know how many copies of XP they sold, they know how many of
those
upgraded to SP2, therefore they know the %age I'm after. The question is
rapidly becoming not "Where do I find this information?" - but "Why is
this
information not publically available?"

Yes - and you have another good point here - security. Perhaps I am forced
to use SP2, but I'd still like to know the cost (in market %age) of that
decision.

MS certainly knows how many copies of XP were sold, and how many were sold
that had SP2 integrated, but it's unclear to me why you think MS knows how
many upgraded to SP2. If they kept the stats they might know how many
installed SP2 from windows update, or downloaded the full version. They
know how many ordered the SP2 CD, and they know how many free SP2 CD's were
given away to publishing companies for inclusion in their mags as an insert,
and sent to places like Office Depot, etc, but that doesn't directly
translate into how many of the currently installed XP seats has SP2.

 

[BillW50]

MS certainly knows how many copies of XP were sold, and how many were
sold that had SP2 integrated, but it's unclear to me why you think MS
knows how many upgraded to SP2. If they kept the stats they might
know how many installed SP2 from windows update, or downloaded the
full version. They know how many ordered the SP2 CD, and they know
how many free SP2 CD's were given away to publishing companies for
inclusion in their mags as an insert, and sent to places like Office
Depot, etc, but that doesn't directly translate into how many of the
currently installed XP seats has SP2.

Microsoft knows simply by the data it collects whenever a Windows system
does an update. Which most users do from time to time.

 

[Bill James]

Microsoft knows simply by the data it collects whenever a Windows system
does an update. Which most users do from time to time.

"Microsoft knows simply by the data it collects whenever a Windows system does an update". At best any such statistics would only be able to show how many Windows XP computers had Service Pack 2 installed the last time those computers connected to Windows Update. Is that really a valid number to base any conclusions on?

"Which most users do from time to time." Are you aware at all of the various other methods available to update Windows? There is WUS, SUS, MBSA, Landesk, Autopatcher, Hfnetchk and many others. Most corporations of any size use an alternate patch distribution system.

 

[BillW50]

"Microsoft knows simply by the data it collects whenever a Windows
system does an update". At best any such statistics would only be
able to show how many Windows XP computers had Service Pack 2
installed the last time those computers connected to Windows Update.
Is that really a valid number to base any conclusions on?

"Which most users do from time to time." Are you aware at all of the
various other methods available to update Windows? There is WUS,
SUS, MBSA, Landesk, Autopatcher, Hfnetchk and many others. Most
corporations of any size use an alternate patch distribution system.

Do you understand how they do most statistics? Using formulas, you can
get very accurate statistics from even a very small sampling. And even
so, Microsoft has the ability to use a very large sampling. Well in the
millions I am sure of it. Thus they should know within a single percent
who has SP2 and who doesn't.

 

[Rock]

Microsoft knows simply by the data it collects whenever a Windows system
does an update. Which most users do from time to time.

You are assuming that windows update somehow distinguishes between distinct
machines and differentiate between multiple visits by the same machine.
That's a huge assumption. but for the sake of argument let's say it can tell
you what % of systems that update through windows update have SP2. In the
first place MS has to actually keep those statistics. And in the second
place it says nothing about those who don't update through windows update.
I don't. It says nothing about all the systems in Domain environments that
get their updates through WSUS on a local server and never talk to windows
update, and that's a lot of systems.

Bill, there is no substance to your contention.

 

[RA]

Are you saying you are not getting any updates? Whenever you get any
updates, M$ gets the information about your system whether you like it
or not. There are some computers which are never online and so they
only get updates by someone downloading for them on a flash drive.
But these are very few about 0.5% of the systems with Windows XP and
upwards.

Microsoft getting the information if and when I choose to get updates from
Microsoft is understood. This is not the same as an installation phoning
home in the background because WGA is installed. I do not have WGA
installed. There are many ways of getting updates in addition to using a
flash drive.

 

[BillW50]

You are assuming that windows update somehow distinguishes between
distinct machines and differentiate between multiple visits by the
same machine. That's a huge assumption.

Piece of cake! That is what cookies and ActiveX are for.

but for the sake of argument
let's say it can tell you what % of systems that update through
windows update have SP2. In the first place MS has to actually keep
those statistics.

Piece of cake! Microsoft has billions in cash. Hell I could even keep
those statistics. It isn't that hard.

And in the second place it says nothing about
those who don't update through windows update. I don't. It says
nothing about all the systems in Domain environments that get their
updates through WSUS on a local server and never talk to windows
update, and that's a lot of systems.

You don't need these included with your statistics. As you can come up
with an accuracy within a percent or two even from a small sampling.

Bill, there is no substance to your contention.

Only to people with eyes, but cannot see.

 

[RedForeman]

I'd love to know what percentage of XP machines have updated to SP2? Is it
60%...90%...more?
As a Windows XP based developer I'd like to know what assumptions I can make
about my market.
Is this information available anywhere? Where is is published?

Yours sincerely,
Paul N.

there are no published numbers, how would that even happen?? surveys?

Likely answer would be to take the number of PCs sold in US, and
determine how many ALREADY had SP2 installed, then you get closer...
but no definative number... I would venture a guess to say 65%, given
that some people (20%) don't have internet access, some still have
dialup (15%) and the rest... have something else....

Good luck on that one...

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:10:00 -0700, Paul N

Thanks for your help cquirke

It's a pleasure! Er... I've been away from keyboard a bit...

You're exactly right about my target audience (the average internet user)
not knowing what a pixel shader is, - probably not even knowing what graphics
hardware is. They just want to find a fun free game online that works, no
questions asked, and doesn't require a whole bunch of installing of DX
upgrades etc.

Hey, I'd be up for exactly that, myself!

Thats why I have to find out what %age of XP machines have SP2.

The online stats suggest a surprisingly high %, as judged per IE
verseion, but that might be skewed. Prolly a reasonable estimation if
you're reaching then via the 'net (i.e. they download your app, rather
than get it in a box or on a cover disk).

XP Gold and SP1 are lethal if installed and connected to the 'net
without settings changes (firewall on) and/or pre-patching for (at the
very least) RPC and LSASS defects.

Microsoft know how many copies of XP they sold, they know how many of those
upgraded to SP2, therefore they know the %age I'm after.

Hmm... not realy. They know how much Gold (should be called "mould"
by now?), SP1 and SP2 they sold, but they are in wobble-space on SP
upgrades. They sent out SP2 CDs, but not all of those will reach
users, and not all users who get these or who have AU deliver SP2,
will install it. Those that do, but "just" wipe and re-install, or do
a repair install, may not re-patch.

OTOH, the same downloaded (or CD-delivered) SP2 may be applied on
multiple PCs and copied about via sneakernet. This is particularly
true in modemland, as a "live" (not re-usable) SP2 is around 77M and a
re-useable SP2 download is > 200M. Just about all the PCs I work on
have been upgraded to SP2 in this way, from my MSDN SP2 CD.

OTOH again, multiple SP2 downloads may refer to the same PC that's
been wiped or repair-installed and then re-patched up to SP2.

The question is rapidly becoming not "Where do I find this information?" -
but "Why is this information not publically available?"

I don't think there's certainty in what one can deduce, as above.

3-6 months from now.

OK... if you're hi-end graphics and expect to sell over 1-2 years, you
could go Vista-only, and certainly SP2-only is reaonable. If you need
to sell faster, Vista-only will be too restrictive. If you don't need
hi-end graphics, then even SP2 may be a bar that is high enough to
lose users with old PCs that aren't online a lot.

Yes - and you have another good point here - security. Perhaps I am forced
to use SP2, but I'd still like to know the cost (in market %age) of that
decision.

OK. I agree, it's looking more SP2-only. Hell, even MS are SP2-only,
by now, when it comes to patches - and Internet-facing PCs that are
not patched are likely to be unsafe/insecure.

If you require users to be secure for your safety, and that of others
(i.e. if an "owned" PC puts others at risk) then I'd insist on SP2.

If you need to support an SP2+ decision, it should be easy to find
numbers that back you up - but if you need to accurately predict the
impact (rather than just CYA), the answer may differ. I don't think
it will be as high as 20% of the XP base, especially in the US.