What install media do I use when I downgrade to XPP from VB?

[Guest]

Hi!

My company is selling computers and our customers want XP Pro on their new
computers but soon there are only Vista Business computers.

So I want to buy computers with VB OEM and then call Microsoft to get a
license key for XPP. I have got the telephone number and I have called and
asked them to be sure this is possible. They confirm that I can get an XPP
license if I have a VB OEM license.

But nobody can tell me what install media I should use to install XPP.
One of our suppliers says I should use Microsoft's article number E85-01913.
I checked it out and it's a media for volume licensing for XP Pro SP1.

Has anybody tried? What did you use?

 

[Mike Brannigan]

Hi!

My company is selling computers and our customers want XP Pro on their new
computers but soon there are only Vista Business computers.

So I want to buy computers with VB OEM and then call Microsoft to get a
license key for XPP. I have got the telephone number and I have called and
asked them to be sure this is possible. They confirm that I can get an XPP
license if I have a VB OEM license.

But nobody can tell me what install media I should use to install XPP.
One of our suppliers says I should use Microsoft's article number
E85-01913.
I checked it out and it's a media for volume licensing for XP Pro SP1.

Has anybody tried? What did you use?

I have just reread your post - YOU buy OEM machines already installed with
Vista Business. You resell these onto your customers.
You wish to replace the Vista Business with XP Pro under the downgrade
rights allowed under and OEM Vista Business and then resell on these
machines.

You are absolutely correct that you are licensed to use XP Pro by virtue of
the downgrade rights in the OEM product - as you have been correctly
informed by Microsoft. There is however a subtlety in he language you use -
have Microsoft confirmed that they will supply bulk Product Activation Keys
fro Windows XP Pro to you? Or did they just say yes you can have an XP Pro
license in place of the Vista one (actually just confirming your downgrade
rights)??

This is hugely important - as if Microsoft are willing to supply blocks of
keys to you THEY will tell you which key set these are from and this
dictates the media you must use AND supply (original only) to the end
purchaser (or at least supply them a method to get that machine back to as
shipped by you to them e.g. recovery media, hidden partition etc).

So go back to Microsoft and ask them what keys they have agree to supply to
you, then figure out where you are going to buy these from (one for each
machine) and also consider how you are correctly supplying the machines and
media to the customers as well as the necessary recover options.
Also figure out how he support for this will work as since you are
reinstalling potentially generic OEM media to the PCs your company becomes
the OEM and thus entirely responsible for the support of both the hardware
and operating system on those PCs.

This all sounds like a really big issue. Is this actually your companies
business ?
[/QUOTE]

 

[Guest]

I have just reread your post - YOU buy OEM machines already installed with
Vista Business. You resell these onto your customers.
You wish to replace the Vista Business with XP Pro under the downgrade
rights allowed under and OEM Vista Business and then resell on these
machines.

You are absolutely correct that you are licensed to use XP Pro by virtue of
the downgrade rights in the OEM product - as you have been correctly
informed by Microsoft. There is however a subtlety in he language you use -
have Microsoft confirmed that they will supply bulk Product Activation Keys
fro Windows XP Pro to you? Or did they just say yes you can have an XP Pro
license in place of the Vista one (actually just confirming your downgrade
rights)??

This is hugely important - as if Microsoft are willing to supply blocks of
keys to you THEY will tell you which key set these are from and this
dictates the media you must use AND supply (original only) to the end
purchaser (or at least supply them a method to get that machine back to as
shipped by you to them e.g. recovery media, hidden partition etc).

So go back to Microsoft and ask them what keys they have agree to supply to
you, then figure out where you are going to buy these from (one for each
machine) and also consider how you are correctly supplying the machines and
media to the customers as well as the necessary recover options.
Also figure out how he support for this will work as since you are
reinstalling potentially generic OEM media to the PCs your company becomes
the OEM and thus entirely responsible for the support of both the hardware
and operating system on those PCs.

This all sounds like a really big issue. Is this actually your companies
business ?

[/QUOTE]

Well, I'm just looking for a workaround for customers who want XPP when all
computers come with VB. So I thought I'd sell them the computer and the XPP
media and tell them what number to call to get an XPP license. If they need
support they can buy hours from us. Do you mean that we have to give support
for free?

 

[Mike Brannigan]

Well, I'm just looking for a workaround for customers who want XPP when
all
computers come with VB. So I thought I'd sell them the computer and the
XPP
media and tell them what number to call to get an XPP license. If they
need
support they can buy hours from us. Do you mean that we have to give
support
for free?[/QUOTE]

OK I understand - so you will not actually do the install of XP for them ?
In which case they are doing the install and removing the OEM Vista Business
and thus taking themselves out of OEM support so you are not required to do
anything as they are the ones effectively OEM'ing the OS to that PC. Of
course you can sell them support if you wish.

So what you are actually doing is helping facilitate the use of their
downgrade rights for the OEM Vista Business that is pre installed.
SO you have a couple of issues.
First thing you have to be very careful with the language you use - they do
not have to ring anyone to get the Windows XP Pro LICENSE - they have that
as a function of the downgrade rights in their Vista License. What they are
expected to get for themselves (and that you are trying to facilitate) is
access to media and a Product Activation Key.
So one bit at a time - Product Activation Key - they just have to ring the
normal Activation clearing house number for their country and explain that
they are exercising the downgrade rights on their copy of Vista and require
a Product activation key for XP.
The problem with this is the media.
Activation keys comes from certain key sets that are specific to various
types of media and language.
So if you provide them with retail media they would need a retail key and
generic OEM media need an OEM key and so on for Volume License media etc.
So you need to source media for these customers - as you cannot sell them a
pirated pr copied CD it must be original media - and you will have to source
that from your distribution channel supplier. This will be either retail or
OEM - obviously there is a price for both of these (I assume cost price for
OEM media is the cheapest). So you could buy and supply OEM media (but you
would probably have to pass this additional cost on to the consumer) - I
assume this are just "jo users" off the street and not companies hat would
have access to the media themselves already.

So if you intend to supply OEM media then that dries up Jan 31 2008 (next
year) as does retail.
Since you cannot supply VL and if they were a VL customer then this would be
non issue for them and you are not a system builder then all of this ends in
6 months anyway. So you since you cannot get original media without keys
and your cheapest choice is OEM all this is moot - just buy OEM media which
has key and sell that to the end user. You CANNOT give them copies of media
or lend them ones.

Not sure I can see any easy way around this legally.

 

[Guest]

OK I understand - so you will not actually do the install of XP for them ?
In which case they are doing the install and removing the OEM Vista Business
and thus taking themselves out of OEM support so you are not required to do
anything as they are the ones effectively OEM'ing the OS to that PC. Of
course you can sell them support if you wish.

So what you are actually doing is helping facilitate the use of their
downgrade rights for the OEM Vista Business that is pre installed.
SO you have a couple of issues.
First thing you have to be very careful with the language you use - they do
not have to ring anyone to get the Windows XP Pro LICENSE - they have that
as a function of the downgrade rights in their Vista License. What they are
expected to get for themselves (and that you are trying to facilitate) is
access to media and a Product Activation Key.
So one bit at a time - Product Activation Key - they just have to ring the
normal Activation clearing house number for their country and explain that
they are exercising the downgrade rights on their copy of Vista and require
a Product activation key for XP.
The problem with this is the media.
Activation keys comes from certain key sets that are specific to various
types of media and language.
So if you provide them with retail media they would need a retail key and
generic OEM media need an OEM key and so on for Volume License media etc.
So you need to source media for these customers - as you cannot sell them a
pirated pr copied CD it must be original media - and you will have to source
that from your distribution channel supplier. This will be either retail or
OEM - obviously there is a price for both of these (I assume cost price for
OEM media is the cheapest). So you could buy and supply OEM media (but you
would probably have to pass this additional cost on to the consumer) - I
assume this are just "jo users" off the street and not companies hat would
have access to the media themselves already.

So if you intend to supply OEM media then that dries up Jan 31 2008 (next
year) as does retail.
Since you cannot supply VL and if they were a VL customer then this would be
non issue for them and you are not a system builder then all of this ends in
6 months anyway. So you since you cannot get original media without keys
and your cheapest choice is OEM all this is moot - just buy OEM media which
has key and sell that to the end user. You CANNOT give them copies of media
or lend them ones.

Not sure I can see any easy way around this legally.

Two of our suppliers say a volume license media would work with the key that
you get from Microsoft when you claim your downgrade rights.

If we suppose it works, nothing would be illegal, would it?
So my question is still: Has anybody tried?

 

[Mike Brannigan]

Two of our suppliers say a volume license media would work with the key
that
you get from Microsoft when you claim your downgrade rights.

If we suppose it works, nothing would be illegal, would it?
So my question is still: Has anybody tried?

There are a couple of issues here - Windows XP VL media requires a VL key.
These are not (as far as I know) ever given out singly to members of the
general public.
Microsoft cannot risk VL keys getting in to the wild as has happened in the
past.
This would also require that the end user receive VL media - again something
not usually done to anyone not under a VL agreement with Microsoft.
(Although there are a number of places that will sell media packs for VL to
anyone - as the keys needed are usually already owned by the company
ordering the addiotnal or replacement media)..

So you may be able to supply VL media from a distributor BUT your customer
will in all likely hood not be given a VL key over the phone from Microsoft.

I suggest you take this off line from here and open discussion directly with
your local Microsoft subsidiary as this is a peer to peer support newsgroups
and your business plans and ability to deliver on them is best discussed
directly with Microsoft in a proper business context.

 

[Guest]

Hi Mike,

After reading this whole thread and reading your comments I have printed it
all out.
I congratulate you on your concise and informative information.
I have a friend who runs a computer business and is trying to do what Dudute
has suggested he do, this information from you will be invaluable to him.

Thanks again Mike.

 

[Mike Brannigan]

Many Thanks for your kind words Bob - it makes this often thankless posting
a little less thankless.
If your friend has any questions about all of this please do post them on
their behalf or get them to dive right in here.

 

[Gary VanderMolen]

Two of our suppliers say a volume license media would work with the key that
you get from Microsoft when you claim your downgrade rights.

If we suppose it works, nothing would be illegal, would it?
So my question is still: Has anybody tried?

Aside from the licensing issue, I think you may have trouble getting
compatible XP drivers for the hardware devices on these machines
that were built for Vista.

 

[Guest]

Aside from the licensing issue, I think you may have trouble getting
compatible XP drivers for the hardware devices on these machines
that were built for Vista.

That's a good point. This means that even the volume licensed customers
could get trouble.

 

[Guest]

Thank you for all comments! This is how we did it:

- The customer ordered some HP computers with Windows VB. They also ordered
the installation of Windows XPP from us.
- We found a Windows XPP CD that came with another HP machine.
- We asked the customer for a license key attached to one of their existing
computers.
- We used this key when installing Windows XPP and when the activation of
Windows failed we called the number appearing on the screen and got help
activating XPP from Microsoft refering to the downgrade rights from Windows
VB.
- As we always do, we made a recovery CD for each one of the computers and
shipped them with the computers to the customer.

Since we already have a support relation with this customer nothing has
really changed. We also want satisfied customers before everything else. This
means we will wait for Service Pack 1 before we start recommending Windows
Vista to our customers.