Webmaster Rights and Protection??

[Mark Fitzpatrick]

Unforunately, this is the type of thing that would be spelled out in advance
in a contract. Without a contract specifying deliverables and times it's
difficult to say if they are wrong here. If you were not compensated during
this time, and they stole your content that you had developed that would be
a definite violation. It's tricky though if they paid you during the process
without a contract as they could take the work that was done and effectively
say you were paid for the material they may have downloaded.

In a lot of scenarios the client is the biggest delay, either through their
poor planning or through their inability to provide the materials in a
timely fashion. The problem is, they don't see that and get annoyed when you
can't generate a full web site even though you don't have informaiton on
their business and maybe don't know what or how they do things.You have to
build in certain contracutal protections ahead of time, and still plan for
this sort of thing to happen.

You may want to give your server logs a perusal to see if they accessed all
the material and keep a record in case of litigation.

 

[Lisa A]

Need information on the rights of a webmaster. I've just spent two months
designing a site, taking the time for the client to get all information to
me. Today they decided they were terminating my services due to the length
of time it was taking, etc. I find it wierd because today the wife had been
emailing more photos and faxing information just yesterday for the site.
I'm wondering if they have downloaded all my custom work and using what I've
done so far.
I need to know how to handle this situation and not get ripped off.
thanks,

 

[Lisa A]

Thanks so much. I'll have to find a good contract somewhere. They gave me
$115 deposit.
I've got way more than that invested in my time and work. I'll go check the
logs. Hope I can decipher what it all means....
thanks for some great advice.

 

[Rob Giordano \(Crash\)]

Only 115$ deposit for 2 months of work...yikes. What did you learn from
that?

Yah, they're probably gonna rip you off. If you have nothing in writing and
signed...ouch...but I'd try sending them a written demand for payment
anyway...who knows maybe they'll pay you. Don't say too much, just ask for
your money that is due. Send it registered return receipt...and see what
happens.




| Thanks so much. I'll have to find a good contract somewhere. They gave
me
| $115 deposit.
| I've got way more than that invested in my time and work. I'll go check
the
| logs. Hope I can decipher what it all means....
| thanks for some great advice.
|
| | > Unforunately, this is the type of thing that would be spelled out in
| > advance in a contract. Without a contract specifying deliverables and
| > times it's difficult to say if they are wrong here. If you were not
| > compensated during this time, and they stole your content that you had
| > developed that would be a definite violation. It's tricky though if they
| > paid you during the process without a contract as they could take the
work
| > that was done and effectively say you were paid for the material they
may
| > have downloaded.
| >
| > In a lot of scenarios the client is the biggest delay, either through
| > their poor planning or through their inability to provide the materials
in
| > a timely fashion. The problem is, they don't see that and get annoyed
when
| > you can't generate a full web site even though you don't have
informaiton
| > on their business and maybe don't know what or how they do things.You
have
| > to build in certain contracutal protections ahead of time, and still
plan
| > for this sort of thing to happen.
| >
| > You may want to give your server logs a perusal to see if they accessed
| > all the material and keep a record in case of litigation.
| >
| > --
| > Hope this helps,
| > Mark Fitzpatrick
| > Former Microsoft FrontPage MVP 199?-2006
| >
| > | >>
| >> Need information on the rights of a webmaster. I've just spent two
| >> months designing a site, taking the time for the client to get all
| >> information to me. Today they decided they were terminating my
services
| >> due to the length of time it was taking, etc. I find it wierd because
| >> today the wife had been emailing more photos and faxing information
just
| >> yesterday for the site. I'm wondering if they have downloaded all my
| >> custom work and using what I've done so far.
| >> I need to know how to handle this situation and not get ripped off.
| >> thanks,
| >>
| >
| >
|
|

 

[Tom Willett]

Google for: sample web designer contract
and pick one that suits you.
--
===
Tom Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
---
FrontPage Support:
http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
===
| Boy what a lesson I've learned. I guess I should ask for payment along
as
| work progresses.
| I'm totally sick over this. I remember last week she wanted me to send
her
| the logo, and I hesitated over that until I was paid. Then I get this
| sudden email to terminate what I've done and they no longer need me. Do
you
| recommend any good contracts to use. Most I can't understand and I want
| something simple and spelled out.
| thanks again.
|
| | > Only 115$ deposit for 2 months of work...yikes. What did you learn from
| > that?
| >
| > Yah, they're probably gonna rip you off. If you have nothing in writing
| > and
| > signed...ouch...but I'd try sending them a written demand for payment
| > anyway...who knows maybe they'll pay you. Don't say too much, just ask
for
| > your money that is due. Send it registered return receipt...and see what
| > happens.
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > | > | Thanks so much. I'll have to find a good contract somewhere. They
gave
| > me
| > | $115 deposit.
| > | I've got way more than that invested in my time and work. I'll go
check
| > the
| > | logs. Hope I can decipher what it all means....
| > | thanks for some great advice.
| > |
| > | | > | > Unforunately, this is the type of thing that would be spelled out in
| > | > advance in a contract. Without a contract specifying deliverables
and
| > | > times it's difficult to say if they are wrong here. If you were not
| > | > compensated during this time, and they stole your content that you
had
| > | > developed that would be a definite violation. It's tricky though if
| > they
| > | > paid you during the process without a contract as they could take
the
| > work
| > | > that was done and effectively say you were paid for the material
they
| > may
| > | > have downloaded.
| > | >
| > | > In a lot of scenarios the client is the biggest delay, either
through
| > | > their poor planning or through their inability to provide the
| > materials
| > in
| > | > a timely fashion. The problem is, they don't see that and get
annoyed
| > when
| > | > you can't generate a full web site even though you don't have
| > informaiton
| > | > on their business and maybe don't know what or how they do
things.You
| > have
| > | > to build in certain contracutal protections ahead of time, and still
| > plan
| > | > for this sort of thing to happen.
| > | >
| > | > You may want to give your server logs a perusal to see if they
| > accessed
| > | > all the material and keep a record in case of litigation.
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | > Hope this helps,
| > | > Mark Fitzpatrick
| > | > Former Microsoft FrontPage MVP 199?-2006
| > | >
| > | > | > | >>
| > | >> Need information on the rights of a webmaster. I've just spent two
| > | >> months designing a site, taking the time for the client to get all
| > | >> information to me. Today they decided they were terminating my
| > services
| > | >> due to the length of time it was taking, etc. I find it wierd
| > because
| > | >> today the wife had been emailing more photos and faxing information
| > just
| > | >> yesterday for the site. I'm wondering if they have downloaded all
my
| > | >> custom work and using what I've done so far.
| > | >> I need to know how to handle this situation and not get ripped off.
| > | >> thanks,
| > | >>
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

 

[Rob Giordano \(Crash\)]

Ah, don't get sick, get even...no just kidding. Send a demand for payment,
and move on...she ain't gonna pay you you know that.
In the future you may want to maintain control of the website's passwords
until you're fully paid.

Contracts...I usually write my own and then if necessary have it reviewed by
my attorney.



| Boy what a lesson I've learned. I guess I should ask for payment along
as
| work progresses.
| I'm totally sick over this. I remember last week she wanted me to send
her
| the logo, and I hesitated over that until I was paid. Then I get this
| sudden email to terminate what I've done and they no longer need me. Do
you
| recommend any good contracts to use. Most I can't understand and I want
| something simple and spelled out.
| thanks again.
|
| | > Only 115$ deposit for 2 months of work...yikes. What did you learn from
| > that?
| >
| > Yah, they're probably gonna rip you off. If you have nothing in writing
| > and
| > signed...ouch...but I'd try sending them a written demand for payment
| > anyway...who knows maybe they'll pay you. Don't say too much, just ask
for
| > your money that is due. Send it registered return receipt...and see what
| > happens.
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > | > | Thanks so much. I'll have to find a good contract somewhere. They
gave
| > me
| > | $115 deposit.
| > | I've got way more than that invested in my time and work. I'll go
check
| > the
| > | logs. Hope I can decipher what it all means....
| > | thanks for some great advice.
| > |
| > | | > | > Unforunately, this is the type of thing that would be spelled out in
| > | > advance in a contract. Without a contract specifying deliverables
and
| > | > times it's difficult to say if they are wrong here. If you were not
| > | > compensated during this time, and they stole your content that you
had
| > | > developed that would be a definite violation. It's tricky though if
| > they
| > | > paid you during the process without a contract as they could take
the
| > work
| > | > that was done and effectively say you were paid for the material
they
| > may
| > | > have downloaded.
| > | >
| > | > In a lot of scenarios the client is the biggest delay, either
through
| > | > their poor planning or through their inability to provide the
| > materials
| > in
| > | > a timely fashion. The problem is, they don't see that and get
annoyed
| > when
| > | > you can't generate a full web site even though you don't have
| > informaiton
| > | > on their business and maybe don't know what or how they do
things.You
| > have
| > | > to build in certain contracutal protections ahead of time, and still
| > plan
| > | > for this sort of thing to happen.
| > | >
| > | > You may want to give your server logs a perusal to see if they
| > accessed
| > | > all the material and keep a record in case of litigation.
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | > Hope this helps,
| > | > Mark Fitzpatrick
| > | > Former Microsoft FrontPage MVP 199?-2006
| > | >
| > | > | > | >>
| > | >> Need information on the rights of a webmaster. I've just spent two
| > | >> months designing a site, taking the time for the client to get all
| > | >> information to me. Today they decided they were terminating my
| > services
| > | >> due to the length of time it was taking, etc. I find it wierd
| > because
| > | >> today the wife had been emailing more photos and faxing information
| > just
| > | >> yesterday for the site. I'm wondering if they have downloaded all
my
| > | >> custom work and using what I've done so far.
| > | >> I need to know how to handle this situation and not get ripped off.
| > | >> thanks,
| > | >>
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

 

[Mark Fitzpatrick]

There's a good book by Nolo that may help out. It's designed for the legal
issues of web and software development and also includes a number of
contracts you can use.

http://www.nolo.com/product.cfm/Obj.../D067F3DC-202E-4EF7-AAEEEFB60061533D/310/266/

 

[Lisa A]

Boy what a lesson I've learned. I guess I should ask for payment along as
work progresses.
I'm totally sick over this. I remember last week she wanted me to send her
the logo, and I hesitated over that until I was paid. Then I get this
sudden email to terminate what I've done and they no longer need me. Do you
recommend any good contracts to use. Most I can't understand and I want
something simple and spelled out.
thanks again.

 

[Mike Mueller]

You did shut the site down, so they can't get everything


:
: Need information on the rights of a webmaster. I've just
spent two months
: designing a site, taking the time for the client to get
all information to
: me. Today they decided they were terminating my services
due to the length
: of time it was taking, etc. I find it wierd because today
the wife had been
: emailing more photos and faxing information just yesterday
for the site.
: I'm wondering if they have downloaded all my custom work
and using what I've
: done so far.
: I need to know how to handle this situation and not get
ripped off.
: thanks,
:
:

 

[Lisa A]

Thanks everyone. Should have asked this question years ago.

 

[tg]

Need information on the rights of a webmaster. I've just spent two months
designing a site, taking the time for the client to get all information to
me. Today they decided they were terminating my services due to the
length of time it was taking, etc. I find it wierd because today the wife
had been emailing more photos and faxing information just yesterday for
the site. I'm wondering if they have downloaded all my custom work and
using what I've done so far.
I need to know how to handle this situation and not get ripped off.
thanks,

Your getting way ahead of yourself, it has only been 1 day and from your
message you have not sent them an invoice or allowed adequate time for
payment - shame on you for not sending them weekly invoices. Outline your
terms of payment on the final invoice otherwise their payment on invoices
could take anywhere from 7 - 90 days...or more.

In any case, they have every right to terminate the "verbal" contract for
your services - you need to acknowledge the termination and send them an
invoice. They will probable pay it if it represents reasonable hours for the
quality of what ever you have delivered to them. How experienced are you as
a "webmaster" and what does that actually mean to them? Don't expect them to
pay for any "learning" time unless you have that in writing - even if it
consumed most of the 2 months.

Your efforts are no different that any other contracted services such as
office space rental, cleaning, building maintenance, payroll or banking
services, trucking, warehouse space rental etc. etc. It is up to you to
clearly outline your chargeable services, expectations and estimated hours,
and then collect your moneys as time passes or stop the work if you are not
paid in a timely manner.

Did you:
- ever indicate that their request would need an estimated 'x' hours, or did
they think it was a day or 2 of work?
- provide them with a statement of work and expected costs?
- send them weekly or biweekly time sheets outlining the chargeable hours?
- send them status reports?
- provide them with "releases" or show them what you had completed?
- send any invoices?
- request payment at any time for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd week etc. over the 2
month period?
- in one of your messages you indicated a $115 DEPOSIT, how did they
acknowledge it was only a DEPOSIT?
- ever indicate that the work would cost more than $115?

Did they:
- provide you with an initial purchase order? If so what amount?
- provide anything in writing?
- ever indicate their expectations?
- send you emails asking for the work to be done?
- request your attendance in meetings?
- make you a verbal commitment - who else heard it?
- sent emails outlining issues, concerns, bugs, failures etc. etc. and
request corrections?

How many hours did you spend creating valuable deliverables as apposed to
learning / tinkering / fiddling with technology over the past 2 months? How
much $$$ are you expecting to receive from them?

You might want to call the person your were dealing with and fully
understand their position, then send them a reasonable invoice. In point
form outline: all requests with dates, code releases and dates, any training
you provided with dates, conversations with dates, your understanding of the
work and the total billable hours and current status of the project. If that
does not work, you may want to send the same invoice and information along
with a letter to their CFO and / or President and include any and all of the
documentation (emails etc.) from above, outline what has taken place over
the past 2 months, outline your rates and kindly ask for payment, next step
would be legal action.

 

[David Berry]

Send them a Hard Copy of the Invoice along with the CD if it's their
property. Until they pay the site is your property, any other material is
theirs and I'd send it back to avoid legal issues there.

I wouldn't release the Domain Name until they pay.

Do you still have access to the site via FrontPage or FTP? If so, publish
all the content to your Hard Drive so you have it and then remove (delete)
the site from the server until they pay. If not, change the Domain Name
records to point to a DNS Server other than their web host's server so the
site goes down - until they pay (use 192.168.1.1 and 192.168.1.2 for
example - local IP Addresses).

Why would you get a lawsuit in the mail? They're the ones that should be
sued

 

[David Berry]

Only send them what's theirs! If the CD has ANYTHING on it that you did as
part of the site don't send it. You might also want to check with your own
lawyer before doing anything.

Every so often you can do a keyword search (Google or msn) for the name of
their site (keywords about their site) and see if anything comes up. If
they move the site to a new domain name and it gets indexed - and you find
it - you can see if they took any of your work.

 

[Lisa A]

WOW!! Thanks for the long explanation. I've actually done sites now for
about 10 years and have never had anyone pull this on me. I've had people
not pay after the site was done for hosting, domain renewal, etc. This is
such a shocked. I worked on this site and they have had access to it for
over 2 months. The client kept emailing me and faxing info sporadically. I
was waiting on them for info, and just last week they acted like it was my
fault the site was not up. I kept asking them to look over the site and
what else did they want to add or send.
They realized the site was a good price and I don't think money is a
problem with them. I think it is more they want to show how powerful they
are..... I specialize in this area and have some high ranking sites. They
requested a copy of their logo I made last week, while on a skiing vacation,
but I had a funny feeling and tried to avoid that issue until payment was
made. I asked them what format would they need it in. The day I got the
email from the client's husband, I had just received an email for more stuff
to add to the site. So that is just strange how they just pulled the plug
that fast. He requested their photo disk back and did ask me if they owed
me any money to let them know with a bried description. I did email them an
invoice for the total amount of the site that I would have charged anyway.
I called last night and some guy said they were no longer available. (other
words they aren't taking my calls) and today I left a message for his wife,
the client to return my call and I've emailed both of them.
Not a word. I'm not a mean person and 99% of my clients think I'm their
best friend. I go out of my way to please everyone and do a lot of work for
free, because I just am like that. I'm never rude to anyone and make
changes and try to please them, even if I don't like what they want. I just
don't want them to take all the work I've done and have someone else do the
site. I was really proud of that site and the look. So now I'd like to use
it for someone else. I spent hours on it. The client loved it.
My question is: Do I need to send a hard copy of the invoice? Should I go
ahead and mail the CD to them. I still have the domain in my name. I don't
want to release that until I'm paid for something besides that measly
deposit.
I hope I'm not going to recieve some nastly lawsuit in the mail. I've not
done anything wrong. Just waiting on more info from them and giving me the
go that the site is ready. I guess they just assumed it should be up
without all the info needed. I guess I need to spell it out next time.
What a waste of my time and stress on me.
thanks for your advice.

 

[Lisa A]

Thanks,
I've removed the site from the server already. Wished I had checked the log
files first to see if they downloaded the graphics. I'll get their CD and
invoice mailed out tomorrow then.

 

[David Berry]

I wish you luck BUT .........

What you might want to consider is

1. Don't do ANYTHING else until they pay you for all work so far.
2. Get them to sign a contract agreement for future work
3. Get a deposit (1/2 down) on remaining work
4. Don't put ANYTHING on their domain. Use your own domain, let them see it
and then transfer it to their domain after you get final payment.

If they ask just tell them that you need to protect yourself based on what's
happened.

If it was me I'd get them to pay me for what I already did and then walk
away. Give them their domain name and what they paid for and move on to the
next client. Sounds like they'll continue to be a hassle.

 

[Lisa A]

Would you believe the client (wife) emailed me today, saying she wanted to
finish up the site.
I'm wondering if they are concerned now that the site is offline and I own
the domain still. So I'm putting up one page at a time under my own domain
to make it at least look like it is more secure to them at least.
I'm still leary, but trying to get them to pay for this site I've worked on.
They are just being really wierd saying they were very unhappy with the text
and the errors and spacing. I could only find one error and that was due to
me putting in the word "you" twice. It looked fine and 95% of it was the
text they sent me to begin with.
I think they are just nickpicking and trying to find something to make me
mad or an excuse to leave. I still don't know the outcome, but hope this
will work.
Wish me luck.
Lisa A

 

[Rob Giordano \(Crash\)]

Get progress payments!



| Would you believe the client (wife) emailed me today, saying she wanted to
| finish up the site.
| I'm wondering if they are concerned now that the site is offline and I own
| the domain still. So I'm putting up one page at a time under my own
domain
| to make it at least look like it is more secure to them at least.
| I'm still leary, but trying to get them to pay for this site I've worked
on.
| They are just being really wierd saying they were very unhappy with the
text
| and the errors and spacing. I could only find one error and that was due
to
| me putting in the word "you" twice. It looked fine and 95% of it was the
| text they sent me to begin with.
| I think they are just nickpicking and trying to find something to make me
| mad or an excuse to leave. I still don't know the outcome, but hope this
| will work.
| Wish me luck.
| Lisa A
|
|
| | > Only send them what's theirs! If the CD has ANYTHING on it that you did
| > as part of the site don't send it. You might also want to check with
your
| > own lawyer before doing anything.
| >
| > Every so often you can do a keyword search (Google or msn) for the name
of
| > their site (keywords about their site) and see if anything comes up. If
| > they move the site to a new domain name and it gets indexed - and you
find
| > it - you can see if they took any of your work.
| >
| > --
| > David Berry
| > FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
| >
| >
| >
| > | >> Thanks,
| >> I've removed the site from the server already. Wished I had checked
the
| >> log files first to see if they downloaded the graphics. I'll get their
| >> CD and invoice mailed out tomorrow then.
| >>
| >> | >>> Send them a Hard Copy of the Invoice along with the CD if it's their
| >>> property. Until they pay the site is your property, any other
material
| >>> is theirs and I'd send it back to avoid legal issues there.
| >>>
| >>> I wouldn't release the Domain Name until they pay.
| >>>
| >>> Do you still have access to the site via FrontPage or FTP? If so,
| >>> publish all the content to your Hard Drive so you have it and then
| >>> remove (delete) the site from the server until they pay. If not,
change
| >>> the Domain Name records to point to a DNS Server other than their web
| >>> host's server so the site goes down - until they pay (use 192.168.1.1
| >>> and 192.168.1.2 for example - local IP Addresses).
| >>>
| >>> Why would you get a lawsuit in the mail? They're the ones that should
| >>> be sued
| >>>
| >>> --
| >>> David Berry
| >>> FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
| >>>
| >>>
| >>>
| >>> | >>>> WOW!! Thanks for the long explanation. I've actually done sites now
| >>>> for about 10 years and have never had anyone pull this on me. I've
had
| >>>> people not pay after the site was done for hosting, domain renewal,
| >>>> etc. This is such a shocked. I worked on this site and they have had
| >>>> access to it for over 2 months. The client kept emailing me and
faxing
| >>>> info sporadically. I was waiting on them for info, and just last week
| >>>> they acted like it was my fault the site was not up. I kept asking
| >>>> them to look over the site and what else did they want to add or
send.
| >>>> They realized the site was a good price and I don't think money is a
| >>>> problem with them. I think it is more they want to show how powerful
| >>>> they are..... I specialize in this area and have some high ranking
| >>>> sites. They requested a copy of their logo I made last week, while on
a
| >>>> skiing vacation, but I had a funny feeling and tried to avoid that
| >>>> issue until payment was made. I asked them what format would they
need
| >>>> it in. The day I got the email from the client's husband, I had just
| >>>> received an email for more stuff to add to the site. So that is just
| >>>> strange how they just pulled the plug that fast. He requested their
| >>>> photo disk back and did ask me if they owed me any money to let them
| >>>> know with a bried description. I did email them an invoice for the
| >>>> total amount of the site that I would have charged anyway.
| >>>> I called last night and some guy said they were no longer available.
| >>>> (other words they aren't taking my calls) and today I left a message
| >>>> for his wife, the client to return my call and I've emailed both of
| >>>> them.
| >>>> Not a word. I'm not a mean person and 99% of my clients think I'm
| >>>> their best friend. I go out of my way to please everyone and do a
lot
| >>>> of work for free, because I just am like that. I'm never rude to
| >>>> anyone and make changes and try to please them, even if I don't like
| >>>> what they want. I just don't want them to take all the work I've
done
| >>>> and have someone else do the site. I was really proud of that site
and
| >>>> the look. So now I'd like to use it for someone else. I spent hours
on
| >>>> it. The client loved it.
| >>>> My question is: Do I need to send a hard copy of the invoice?
Should
| >>>> I go ahead and mail the CD to them. I still have the domain in my
| >>>> name. I don't want to release that until I'm paid for something
besides
| >>>> that measly deposit.
| >>>> I hope I'm not going to recieve some nastly lawsuit in the mail.
I've
| >>>> not done anything wrong. Just waiting on more info from them and
| >>>> giving me the go that the site is ready. I guess they just assumed
it
| >>>> should be up without all the info needed. I guess I need to spell it
| >>>> out next time. What a waste of my time and stress on me.
| >>>> thanks for your advice.
| >>>>
| >>>>
| >>>> | >>>>>
| >>>>> | >>>>>>
| >>>>>> Need information on the rights of a webmaster. I've just spent two
| >>>>>> months designing a site, taking the time for the client to get all
| >>>>>> information to me. Today they decided they were terminating my
| >>>>>> services due to the length of time it was taking, etc. I find it
| >>>>>> wierd because today the wife had been emailing more photos and
faxing
| >>>>>> information just yesterday for the site. I'm wondering if they have
| >>>>>> downloaded all my custom work and using what I've done so far.
| >>>>>> I need to know how to handle this situation and not get ripped off.
| >>>>>> thanks,
| >>>>>>
| >>>>>
| >>>>> Your getting way ahead of yourself, it has only been 1 day and from
| >>>>> your message you have not sent them an invoice or allowed adequate
| >>>>> time for payment - shame on you for not sending them weekly
invoices.
| >>>>> Outline your terms of payment on the final invoice otherwise their
| >>>>> payment on invoices could take anywhere from 7 - 90 days...or more.
| >>>>>
| >>>>> In any case, they have every right to terminate the "verbal"
contract
| >>>>> for your services - you need to acknowledge the termination and send
| >>>>> them an invoice. They will probable pay it if it represents
reasonable
| >>>>> hours for the quality of what ever you have delivered to them. How
| >>>>> experienced are you as a "webmaster" and what does that actually
mean
| >>>>> to them? Don't expect them to pay for any "learning" time unless you
| >>>>> have that in writing - even if it consumed most of the 2 months.
| >>>>>
| >>>>> Your efforts are no different that any other contracted services
such
| >>>>> as office space rental, cleaning, building maintenance, payroll or
| >>>>> banking services, trucking, warehouse space rental etc. etc. It is
up
| >>>>> to you to clearly outline your chargeable services, expectations and
| >>>>> estimated hours, and then collect your moneys as time passes or stop
|>>>>> the work if you are not paid in a timely manner.
| >>>>>
| >>>>> Did you:
| >>>>> - ever indicate that their request would need an estimated 'x'
hours,
| >>>>> or did they think it was a day or 2 of work?
| >>>>> - provide them with a statement of work and expected costs?
| >>>>> - send them weekly or biweekly time sheets outlining the chargeable
| >>>>> hours?
| >>>>> - send them status reports?
| >>>>> - provide them with "releases" or show them what you had completed?
| >>>>> - send any invoices?
| >>>>> - request payment at any time for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd week etc. over
the
| >>>>> 2 month period?
| >>>>> - in one of your messages you indicated a $115 DEPOSIT, how did they
| >>>>> acknowledge it was only a DEPOSIT?
| >>>>> - ever indicate that the work would cost more than $115?
| >>>>>
| >>>>> Did they:
| >>>>> - provide you with an initial purchase order? If so what amount?
| >>>>> - provide anything in writing?
| >>>>> - ever indicate their expectations?
| >>>>> - send you emails asking for the work to be done?
| >>>>> - request your attendance in meetings?
| >>>>> - make you a verbal commitment - who else heard it?
| >>>>> - sent emails outlining issues, concerns, bugs, failures etc. etc.
and
| >>>>> request corrections?
| >>>>>
| >>>>> How many hours did you spend creating valuable deliverables as
apposed
| >>>>> to learning / tinkering / fiddling with technology over the past 2
| >>>>> months? How much $$$ are you expecting to receive from them?
| >>>>>
| >>>>> You might want to call the person your were dealing with and fully
| >>>>> understand their position, then send them a reasonable invoice. In
| >>>>> point form outline: all requests with dates, code releases and
dates,
| >>>>> any training you provided with dates, conversations with dates, your
| >>>>> understanding of the work and the total billable hours and current
| >>>>> status of the project. If that does not work, you may want to send
the
| >>>>> same invoice and information along with a letter to their CFO and /
or
| >>>>> President and include any and all of the documentation (emails etc.)
| >>>>> from above, outline what has taken place over the past 2 months,
| >>>>> outline your rates and kindly ask for payment, next step would be
| >>>>> legal action.
| >>>>>
| >>>>>
| >>>>>
| >>>>>
| >>>>>
| >>>>>
| >>>>
| >>>>
| >>>
| >>
| >>
| >
|
|

 

[Lisa A]

Thanks Guys!!
This is a lesson learned big time. I'm holding my breath to get paid for
this. You are right. I think they will be a thorn in my *$?! if I
continue to try to work with them. They are some weird folks that seem to
be looking for a fight. They should have worked on the site themselves to
start with and drive themselves nuts. It's definitely not worth it to me to
stress out over. I'd rather work on something enjoyable. I'm a nervous
wreck worrying if I have an "extra space" or something in the text regards
to them. I won't even add a word of text unless they send it to me and I'll
cut and paste only, so I won't put anything wrong to upset them.
Nope, this is too much of a headache. I just emailed them with some last
details telling them the site is ready to go live as soon as they make the
final payment.
Will keep you posted for those of you who are probably laughing at me for
working for free.... Hope to help some others out there to read these emails
from the pros here so they won't be in my position.
thanks,
Lisa A

 

[Mike Mueller]

Lots of good ideas in this thread

It sounds like you have a lot of times invested in graphics
for their sites. I would keep the ones you have; and, make
degraded copies to post. Kind of like holding the good
graphics hostage.

I'm in limbo on robots.txt. First I was thinking that you
would want to block the site; but I'm not sure on that now.
If you would have it indexed and they scrape it, penalties
may be assessed for content duplication.



: Would you believe the client (wife) emailed me today,
saying she wanted to
: finish up the site.
: I'm wondering if they are concerned now that the site is
offline and I own
: the domain still. So I'm putting up one page at a time
under my own domain
: to make it at least look like it is more secure to them at
least.
: I'm still leary, but trying to get them to pay for this
site I've worked on.
: They are just being really wierd saying they were very
unhappy with the text
: and the errors and spacing. I could only find one error
and that was due to
: me putting in the word "you" twice. It looked fine and
95% of it was the
: text they sent me to begin with.
: I think they are just nickpicking and trying to find
something to make me
: mad or an excuse to leave. I still don't know the
outcome, but hope this
: will work.
: Wish me luck.
: Lisa A
:
:
: : > Only send them what's theirs! If the CD has ANYTHING on
it that you did
: > as part of the site don't send it. You might also want
to check with your
: > own lawyer before doing anything.
: >
: > Every so often you can do a keyword search (Google or
msn) for the name of
: > their site (keywords about their site) and see if
anything comes up. If
: > they move the site to a new domain name and it gets
indexed - and you find
: > it - you can see if they took any of your work.
: >
: > --
: > David Berry
: > FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
: >
: >
: >
: > : >> Thanks,
: >> I've removed the site from the server already. Wished
I had checked the
: >> log files first to see if they downloaded the graphics.
I'll get their
: >> CD and invoice mailed out tomorrow then.
: >>
: >>
: >>> Send them a Hard Copy of the Invoice along with the CD
if it's their
: >>> property. Until they pay the site is your property,
any other material
: >>> is theirs and I'd send it back to avoid legal issues
there.
: >>>
: >>> I wouldn't release the Domain Name until they pay.
: >>>
: >>> Do you still have access to the site via FrontPage or
FTP? If so,
: >>> publish all the content to your Hard Drive so you have
it and then
: >>> remove (delete) the site from the server until they
pay. If not, change
: >>> the Domain Name records to point to a DNS Server other
than their web
: >>> host's server so the site goes down - until they pay
(use 192.168.1.1
: >>> and 192.168.1.2 for example - local IP Addresses).
: >>>
: >>> Why would you get a lawsuit in the mail? They're the
ones that should
: >>> be sued
: >>>
: >>> --
: >>> David Berry
: >>> FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
: >>>
: >>>
: >>>
: >>> : >>>> WOW!! Thanks for the long explanation. I've actually
done sites now
: >>>> for about 10 years and have never had anyone pull
this on me. I've had
: >>>> people not pay after the site was done for hosting,
domain renewal,
: >>>> etc. This is such a shocked. I worked on this site
and they have had
: >>>> access to it for over 2 months. The client kept
emailing me and faxing
: >>>> info sporadically. I was waiting on them for info,
and just last week
: >>>> they acted like it was my fault the site was not up.
I kept asking
: >>>> them to look over the site and what else did they
want to add or send.
: >>>> They realized the site was a good price and I don't
think money is a
: >>>> problem with them. I think it is more they want to
show how powerful
: >>>> they are..... I specialize in this area and have
some high ranking
: >>>> sites. They requested a copy of their logo I made
last week, while on a
: >>>> skiing vacation, but I had a funny feeling and tried
to avoid that
: >>>> issue until payment was made. I asked them what
format would they need
: >>>> it in. The day I got the email from the client's
husband, I had just
: >>>> received an email for more stuff to add to the site.
So that is just
: >>>> strange how they just pulled the plug that fast. He
requested their
: >>>> photo disk back and did ask me if they owed me any
money to let them
: >>>> know with a bried description. I did email them an
invoice for the
: >>>> total amount of the site that I would have charged
anyway.
: >>>> I called last night and some guy said they were no
longer available.
: >>>> (other words they aren't taking my calls) and today
I left a message
: >>>> for his wife, the client to return my call and I've
emailed both of
: >>>> them.
: >>>> Not a word. I'm not a mean person and 99% of my
clients think I'm
: >>>> their best friend. I go out of my way to please
everyone and do a lot
: >>>> of work for free, because I just am like that. I'm
never rude to
: >>>> anyone and make changes and try to please them, even
if I don't like
: >>>> what they want. I just don't want them to take all
the work I've done
: >>>> and have someone else do the site. I was really
proud of that site and
: >>>> the look. So now I'd like to use it for someone else.
I spent hours on
: >>>> it. The client loved it.
: >>>> My question is: Do I need to send a hard copy of the
invoice? Should
: >>>> I go ahead and mail the CD to them. I still have the
domain in my
: >>>> name. I don't want to release that until I'm paid for
something besides
: >>>> that measly deposit.
: >>>> I hope I'm not going to recieve some nastly lawsuit
in the mail. I've
: >>>> not done anything wrong. Just waiting on more info
from them and
: >>>> giving me the go that the site is ready. I guess
they just assumed it
: >>>> should be up without all the info needed. I guess I
need to spell it
: >>>> out next time. What a waste of my time and stress on
me.
: >>>> thanks for your advice.
: >>>>
: >>>>
: >>>> : >>>>>
message
: >>>>> : >>>>>>
: >>>>>> Need information on the rights of a webmaster.
I've just spent two
: >>>>>> months designing a site, taking the time for the
client to get all
: >>>>>> information to me. Today they decided they were
terminating my
: >>>>>> services due to the length of time it was taking,
etc. I find it
: >>>>>> wierd because today the wife had been emailing more
photos and faxing
: >>>>>> information just yesterday for the site. I'm
wondering if they have
: >>>>>> downloaded all my custom work and using what I've
done so far.
: >>>>>> I need to know how to handle this situation and not
get ripped off.
: >>>>>> thanks,
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>
: >>>>> Your getting way ahead of yourself, it has only been
1 day and from
: >>>>> your message you have not sent them an invoice or
allowed adequate
: >>>>> time for payment - shame on you for not sending them
weekly invoices.
: >>>>> Outline your terms of payment on the final invoice
otherwise their
: >>>>> payment on invoices could take anywhere from 7 - 90
days...or more.
: >>>>>
: >>>>> In any case, they have every right to terminate the
"verbal" contract
: >>>>> for your services - you need to acknowledge the
termination and send
: >>>>> them an invoice. They will probable pay it if it
represents reasonable
: >>>>> hours for the quality of what ever you have
delivered to them. How
: >>>>> experienced are you as a "webmaster" and what does
that actually mean
: >>>>> to them? Don't expect them to pay for any "learning"
time unless you
: >>>>> have that in writing - even if it consumed most of
the 2 months.
: >>>>>
: >>>>> Your efforts are no different that any other
contracted services such
: >>>>> as office space rental, cleaning, building
maintenance, payroll or
: >>>>> banking services, trucking, warehouse space rental
etc. etc. It is up
: >>>>> to you to clearly outline your chargeable services,
expectations and
: >>>>> estimated hours, and then collect your moneys as
time passes or stop
:>>>>> the work if you are not paid in a timely manner.
: >>>>>
: >>>>> Did you:
: >>>>> - ever indicate that their request would need an
estimated 'x' hours,
: >>>>> or did they think it was a day or 2 of work?
: >>>>> - provide them with a statement of work and expected
costs?
: >>>>> - send them weekly or biweekly time sheets outlining
the chargeable
: >>>>> hours?
: >>>>> - send them status reports?
: >>>>> - provide them with "releases" or show them what you
had completed?
: >>>>> - send any invoices?
: >>>>> - request payment at any time for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd
week etc. over the
: >>>>> 2 month period?
: >>>>> - in one of your messages you indicated a $115
DEPOSIT, how did they
: >>>>> acknowledge it was only a DEPOSIT?
: >>>>> - ever indicate that the work would cost more than
$115?
: >>>>>
: >>>>> Did they:
: >>>>> - provide you with an initial purchase order? If so
what amount?
: >>>>> - provide anything in writing?
: >>>>> - ever indicate their expectations?
: >>>>> - send you emails asking for the work to be done?
: >>>>> - request your attendance in meetings?
: >>>>> - make you a verbal commitment - who else heard it?
: >>>>> - sent emails outlining issues, concerns, bugs,
failures etc. etc. and
: >>>>> request corrections?
: >>>>>
: >>>>> How many hours did you spend creating valuable
deliverables as apposed
: >>>>> to learning / tinkering / fiddling with technology
over the past 2
: >>>>> months? How much $$$ are you expecting to receive
from them?
: >>>>>
: >>>>> You might want to call the person your were dealing
with and fully
: >>>>> understand their position, then send them a
reasonable invoice. In
: >>>>> point form outline: all requests with dates, code
releases and dates,
: >>>>> any training you provided with dates, conversations
with dates, your
: >>>>> understanding of the work and the total billable
hours and current
: >>>>> status of the project. If that does not work, you
may want to send the
: >>>>> same invoice and information along with a letter to
their CFO and / or
: >>>>> President and include any and all of the
documentation (emails etc.)
: >>>>> from above, outline what has taken place over the
past 2 months,
: >>>>> outline your rates and kindly ask for payment, next
step would be
: >>>>> legal action.
: >>>>>
: >>>>>
: >>>>>
: >>>>>
: >>>>>
: >>>>>
: >>>>
: >>>>
: >>>
: >>
: >>
: >
:
: