wanting to learn about hardware...newbie

[Gwen Morse]

Specs on me: 30-something woman whose decided it's time to stop being
intimidated by hardware. Uses linux as her daily OS. Has replaced
cards/drives/RAM in the past, but has never gone down as deep in her
case as swapping out the motherboard.

Specs on what I want: A linux/winXP dual-boot play box. Primarily
for "experimentation". (I want to make my own DVR box and general
"multimedia" center that does things like play my stored collection of
CDs ripped to Ogg files. I want to master compiling my own kernel).
When all my fiddling and breaking things in Linux has frustrated the
H*LL out of me, I want to be able to boot into Windows and play
immersive rpgs.

Case: My existing ATX case. Grey. Has slots and a power
button. Boring but functional. Has a single-layer DVD r+w/CD r+w, a
single 200 gig sata drive, and a 500 gig ide drive. Will scavenge
usable parts.

Power supply: 500 mw el-cheapo special I bought at Newegg some
time back. Still in the box.

Motherboard: Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe Wireless Edition NVIDIA
Socket AM2 ATX Motherboard. From what I've read, AM2 is the future of
the AMD 64 processors, and this board has slots for everything
including the proverbial kitchen sink. If I want to eventually have a
screaming-fast gaming setup, this will be a sweet board to build
around.

RAM: Corsair TWINX Dual Channel 2048MB PC5400 DDR2 667MHz
Memory (2 x 1024MB). I tried to actually find Corsair RAM that was
533, but, I couldn't find any. This seemed to be the lowest
price-point for what I wanted (2 gigs of DDR2 cheap). Kingston 533 RAM
was too expensive.

CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ 2.0GHz / 1MB Cache / 2000MHz FSB /
Socket AM2 / Dual-Core (Windsor) / Processor with Fan. The cheapest
dual-core processor.

The above I'm pretty settled on. What I'm doing is getting the
motherboard I want, and then the "entry level" of each other add-on.
Once I feel twitchy with what I have, I can upgrade and pass on the
discards to my teen son.

The rest I'm undecided (read: looking for useful suggestions).

Video card: What I want is...uhh..."the cheapest that will
play Oblivion decently", I guess. I realize that's rather
indeterminate criteria and from what I read about Oblivion and the
bugs, maybe _no_ video card plays it decently. I most often play games
like Baldurs Gate II, and The Sims 2. I think the most
graphically-intense game I own is Star Wars: Knights of the Old
Republic 2. So, I'm hardly on the cutting edge of anything. But, after
I lay out money for this unit, I know I'm going to want to test it
with something newer, and there's Oblivion boxes calling to me from
Gamestop...on the positive side, I happily play through "low" graphics
settings on other games, so, I see no reason why I'd need anything
other than "passable" for Oblivion. nVidia video chips are a must
here, as ATI's linux drivers are horrific.

Sound card: I have to admit, I don't think I've had a separate
sound card since Soundblaster was new (and for that matter, was
soundblaster even a separate card???). I use the on-board sound card.
But, if I want to get into playing music through my PC, then, a
separate sound card seems to be a must. What sort of sound card
simulates the level of sound quality from my $199 all-in-one rack
stereo? Rather like the comments about what video card to get, really,
I'm pretty happy with modest quality. If it sounds as good as my rack
system, it sounds as good as my tin ears will recognize.

Analog TV Card: I'd like to set up a DVR box, as already
mentioned. I'm going to do my own research on this one.

The parts I've selected are $560 through Tiger direct. I'd like to
keep the total on the Video/sound cards to no more than an additional
$100/$150.

Any suggestions?

Gwen
--
Gwen Morse mailto:[email protected]
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then
suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night,
the ice weasels come." -- Matt Groening

 

[johns]

My feeling is that if you are motivated to do it on
the cheap, you are going to learn about hardware
alright ! Unless you are willing to spend about $800
on a medium grade build, I would forget it. I could
probably spec out what I think would be affordable,
and at the same time be worth having:

Using the Mwave.com site

Gigabyte mobo bundle: assemble-test $230
GA-K8N51gmf-9
mwave 1 gig ddr400 ram
AMD Athlon 64 3000+
------------------------------
TV Tuner Hauppauge PVR150 $89
------------------------------
Case Antec SLK 1650B w/ 350 watt $62
------------------------------
Video card BFG 3dFuzion GF7600GT $169
------------------------------
Hitachi 160 gig SATA $60
-------------------------------
Sony DWQ-150 black dvdrw $31
------------------------------
Sony floppy $9
-------------------------------
MS Keybd-mouse $20
-------------------------------
Viewsonic va1912wb lcd monitor $219
Wide, includes speakers

That totals up $889.80, and is a nice system for PVR,
gaming, multimedia ... and is well documented for
a self build. You would need WinXP Sp2. Anti
Virus like McAfee. Modem if you have an ISP
account.

johns

 

[Mike T.]

The above I'm pretty settled on. What I'm doing is getting the
motherboard I want, and then the "entry level" of each other add-on.
Once I feel twitchy with what I have, I can upgrade and pass on the
discards to my teen son.

The rest I'm undecided (read: looking for useful suggestions).

Video card: What I want is...uhh..."the cheapest that will
play Oblivion decently", I guess. I realize that's rather
indeterminate criteria and from what I read about Oblivion and the
bugs, maybe _no_ video card plays it decently. I most often play games
Sound card: I have to admit, I don't think I've had a separate
sound card since Soundblaster was new (and for that matter, was
soundblaster even a separate card???). I use the on-board sound card.
But, if I want to get into playing music through my PC, then, a
separate sound card seems to be a must. What sort of sound card
simulates the level of sound quality from my $199 all-in-one rack
stereo? Rather like the comments about what video card to get, really,
I'm pretty happy with modest quality. If it sounds as good as my rack
system, it sounds as good as my tin ears will recognize.

Analog TV Card: I'd like to set up a DVR box, as already
mentioned. I'm going to do my own research on this one.

The parts I've selected are $560 through Tiger direct. I'd like to
keep the total on the Video/sound cards to no more than an additional
$100/$150.

Any suggestions?

Gwen

Well, that's tough, but not impossible. Oblivion recommends a Geforce 6800,
which is on the list of specifically supported cards for that game. And,
the Geforce 6800 should play just about anything else you throw at it just
fine. Linux should love it, too.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150130

For sound, you've got a couple good choices:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829118103
We run this in my wife's system, and I'm a serious audiophile. It sounds
great. The price is right, too.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829102176
I've built a couple of systems with this one, and it sounds great. Not
quite up to Turtle Beach quality sound, but more than acceptable for the
vast majority of users. Also, Creative has an advantage for gamers in that
it is widely supported by every game publisher. Though you really shouldn't
have a problem with the Turtle Beach card, either.

You've got a problem that you're not aware of yet, though. You need to
replace your power supply. No, you don't have a choice in the matter. The
one you've got probably isn't up to the task of running the system you are
planning. Even if it was, it's more likely to fail than what you will want
to risk, with the new hardware. I'd suggest the Enermax Liberty 520 or
anything Seasonic in the range of about 480W. -Dave

 

[Don Freeman]

... and is well documented for
a self build.

And this is one feature that is often overlooked, especially for the novice
builder. How well has the manufacturer documented his hardware specs,
installation, configuration, troubleshooting? If not very well, then no
matter the quality of the hardware, installation can be a very frustrating
experience. This is also an argument in favor of spending a little more
money for a boxed item instead of an OEM version, if you are not familiar
with that particular piece of hardware. The OEM often comes with minimal at
best hardcopy documentation. Call me old school but I prefer holding in my
sweaty little hands a physical manual when installing unfamiliar hardware.

 

[Mike T.]

And this is one feature that is often overlooked, especially for the

novice builder. How well has the manufacturer documented his hardware
specs, installation, configuration, troubleshooting? If not very well,
then no matter the quality of the hardware, installation can be a very
frustrating experience. This is also an argument in favor of spending a
little more money for a boxed item instead of an OEM version, if you are
not familiar with that particular piece of hardware. The OEM often comes
with minimal at best hardcopy documentation. Call me old school but I
prefer holding in my sweaty little hands a physical manual when installing
unfamiliar hardware.

The best solution for this problem is to never build a new system unless
you've got a fully functional computer with Internet access handy. It
doesn't have to be a desktop, an older notebook works fine. Then you've got
the best of both worlds. You can pay less for the OEM version, and go
online to find any documentation you might need. -Dave

 

[Don Freeman]

The best solution for this problem is to never build a new system unless
you've got a fully functional computer with Internet access handy. It
doesn't have to be a desktop, an older notebook works fine. Then you've
got the best of both worlds. You can pay less for the OEM version, and go
online to find any documentation you might need. -Dave

I always have at least one working internet-connected computer handy, not so
much for this reason but that I can't afford to not have access to one for
any period of time. But that is not always practical (nor affordable) for
everyone, and maybe it's because I'm an is old fart, but I still like to
have written instructions in front of me.

But even that aside, if going with your suggestion, I would also suggest
that one should still check out the online documentation before committing
to a certain piece of hardware. Sometimes even those versions may have
translation and readability difficulties, as well as just being incomplete
by assuming more knowledge on the part of the user then he/she actually has.

 

[Gwen Morse]

Well, that's tough, but not impossible. Oblivion recommends a Geforce 6800,
which is on the list of specifically supported cards for that game. And,
the Geforce 6800 should play just about anything else you throw at it just
fine. Linux should love it, too.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150130

Lots of descriptions of it running hot and noisy. I've read about
adding different heatsinks and fans to CPUs (to cool them down). Is it
possible to do so with a video GPU, or, am I just better off opening
the wallet a little deeper and paying for an actual card with a fan
that's cooler and quieter?

Speaking of "hot" components, is it possible to just leave the side of
the case open and provide extra cooling that way? I have crappy
electronics, but, a very clean house. I know how to blow the fan out
with compressed air and I could certainly do that for the rest of the
case. What about those "hard drive" fans that plug into a 5.25 bay?
Would they quietly suck a reasonable amount of excess hot air out of
the case?

Also, this card has HDTV and DVI connectors. The HDTV connector
actually says "HDTV/S-Video Out". Does that mean it supports both
basic TV out as well as Hi-Def TV? I don't have a high-def tv, mine is
a $300 special from Sam's Club. Is it possible to get a DVI to VGA
adapter, as I also still have a CRT monitor...

For sound, you've got a couple good choices:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829118103
We run this in my wife's system, and I'm a serious audiophile. It sounds
great. The price is right, too.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829102176
I've built a couple of systems with this one, and it sounds great. Not
quite up to Turtle Beach quality sound, but more than acceptable for the
vast majority of users. Also, Creative has an advantage for gamers in that
it is widely supported by every game publisher. Though you really shouldn't
have a problem with the Turtle Beach card, either.

I got the turtle beach card. Thank you.

You've got a problem that you're not aware of yet, though. You need to
replace your power supply.

I was doing more reading and I came to that realization on my own. If
I want to run 2 video cards, I'll need a "certified" SLI power supply.
Found an Ultra 500 w model I liked for $69. I could have gone
cheapter, but, I was a sucker for the cables that will glow in the
dark if I shine a UV light on them. I made sure it had a 24-pin
connector.

Gwen
--
Gwen Morse mailto:[email protected]
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then
suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night,
the ice weasels come." -- Matt Groening

 

[johns]

You are buying a bunch of high-end parts to mix
with parts that will cripple them. That sound card
is pointless if you don't have the fancy speakers
needed. On-board sound from the Gigabyte mobos
along with the Creative 3-speaker ( 2 midrange 1
base ) system would cost you about $30, and
beat the tar out of 99% of the so-called good
sound systems. For your goals, speakers integrated
into the LCD monitor gets you a new wide screen
monitor for free ????? Instead, you are falling for
the kiddy stuff that the vendors hype, and then
you are crippling it with old hand-me-downs.
Makes no sense. Yes, there are quiet fan-heat
sinks for both video and cpu, and you can set
them up on external speed controllers that will
knob them down to less than 2000 rpm. My
cpu fan runs at 600 rpm, and the cpu idle temp
is 34 C, and barely goes into the 40s in a game.
My video card ( 7900GTO ) fan is set to 1600
rpm, and the idle temp is again about 33C and
rarely goes into the 50s in the newest games.
The cpu fan cost $18. I chose a $50 fan for the
video card ( because I did not know better ).
There's no way you need a hot psupply. Tops,
you should get the TruePower 480watt with
the 120mm quiet fan. The 6800 is a good card.
I have 41 of them. They are very quiet if you
just get the vanilla 6800 256. If you get the
GT, you should have gone for the newer
7600GT which is priced about the same.

johns

 

[Mike T.]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150130

Lots of descriptions of it running hot and noisy. I've read about
adding different heatsinks and fans to CPUs (to cool them down). Is it
possible to do so with a video GPU, or, am I just better off opening
the wallet a little deeper and paying for an actual card with a fan
that's cooler and quieter?

It's possible, but not suggested. Just about any modern gaming video card
is going to run hot and noisy. You might be able to find one that's a
little cooler and a little quieter (and more expensive, of course). I'd
still go with the XFX 6800 though, if I was building it.

Speaking of "hot" components, is it possible to just leave the side of
the case open and provide extra cooling that way? I have crappy
electronics, but, a very clean house. I know how to blow the fan out
with compressed air and I could certainly do that for the rest of the
case. What about those "hard drive" fans that plug into a 5.25 bay?
Would they quietly suck a reasonable amount of excess hot air out of
the case?

OK, looks like you are asking some good questions. You need to learn a bit
more about case cooling. It's possible to keep the interior of a case
cooler by leaving the side of the case open. HOWEVER, cooling is not just
about low temperatures, it's about airflow. A good PC case is designed in
such a way that (with the help of cooling fans, of course), cool air is
pulled from outside, circulated around/past all vital components, and then
warm air is exhausted out of the case. When you open up the side of the
case, you allow more warm air to escape, causing the temperature at any
particular point in the case to drop. But, you have less airflow where you
need it (note the "where you need it" part). Consequently, individual
components (video card, hard drive, CPU, mainboard chipset, etc.) will
actually be WARMER, because there is less airflow, even though the air that
is there is cooler. It's generally OK to leave the case open while
troubleshooting. You won't hurt anything that way. But for everyday use,
it's better to have the case closed. This will keep your components cooler,
increasing their useful life. That assumes that the case is properly
designed, of course.

Also, something that many people don't know is that you need airflow inside
the case to be slightly positive pressure. I cringe when I see a post like
("I got a super-duper power supply with three 120mm exhaust fans, plus a
120mm exhaust fan for the back of the case . . . that should do it for
cooling") Well yeah, it should kill your external components pretty
quickly. In general, airflow in should equal airflow out. If there is an
imbalance, there should be more airflow INTO the case, causing positive
pressure inside the case. That way dust doesn't get sucked into your
external components by the vacuum created by too many exhaust fans not
balanced by enough intake fans. Keep in mind that your power supply is
probably actively cooled, so that (the power supply unit) counts as one
exhaust fan. If you only add one or two case fans, the first one or two
case fans should both be pushing air INTO the case.

There is nothing wrong with adding cooling fans to a 5.25" drive bay. Just
be sure that airflow is pulling air in. You could use one of those fans
plus one more case fan (also pulling air in) and that should work fine with
your power supply pulling air OUT.

If you are using an existing case, it might be difficult to balance airflow,
depending on what your options are for mounting case fans. But the good
news is that good replacement ATX cases start as low as 20-30 bucks (some
even include a shitty power supply at that price!!!). Lately I've been
using cases with two SIDE fan openings, and that seems to work pretty well.
Just install two good fans on the side, pushing air in. Airflow positive,
everything stays cool, too.

Also, this card has HDTV and DVI connectors. The HDTV connector
actually says "HDTV/S-Video Out". Does that mean it supports both
basic TV out as well as Hi-Def TV? I don't have a high-def tv, mine is
a $300 special from Sam's Club. Is it possible to get a DVI to VGA
adapter, as I also still have a CRT monitor...

Hmmmmm, you're right. It does say HDTV/S-Video out, which makes no fricking
sense whatsoever. S-Video is an analog connector which is used for NTSC and
PAL format video. In other words, if it is truly S-Video, it should not be
labelled "HDTV", AND if it is truly S-Video, it should work perfectly with
your $300 special standard-def TV from Sam's Club. I'm betting someone
goofed in writing the specs. for this card. DVI connectors can be used to
connect Hi-def equipment. So I wouldn't be surprised to learn that either
or both of the DVI connectors is HDTV compatible. Oh, and the video card
includes an adapter to allow you you connect your CRT monitor (VGA) to one
of the DVI connectors. -Dave

 

[`AMD tower]

"properly desighed case" good luck finding
out about that one Gwen. If you have a temp
sensor in the system, see what the cpu temp is
and then take off the side and see what happens.